hmmmmm...healthcare: this is one tax I will not pay, ever!

1. 69

   SparklingJewelposted 12 years ago

   This legislation was covertly run through the system over the objections of at least half of the American people. The president justified it by saying that it didn’t raise our taxes. Now the Supreme Court has confirmed that’s exactly what the law does. The entire justification for the law is that it is a new tax.
   
   It never fit my needs, and from what I have heard takes away from others what they want and for sure it is more deficit spending the country cannot afford...cause guess who is paying for it??? And guess who gets their own special kind of healthcare, that the citizens don't get...insanity has finally taken over...and I am opting out even more than I already have just to maintain my freedom of conscience and my health!

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      PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It is a new tax only for those who do not take personal responsibility for their own health care by purchasing insurance. 
      
      I know, you already said that your health care was previously paid for by charity and hospitals.  You have leeched off the system and caused others to pay for your irresponsibility.

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      1. 69

         SparklingJewelposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         no, i paid for what I needed in most cases either in cash or in payments and worked within systems that offered balanced give back, sometimes even in barter. A free market system offers choices in how to work within a system and offers choices of what kind of care one can partake of. I mostly have used small alternative healthcare systems of natural medicines. I have no need of a conventional healthcare system.
         
         The one time my son needed an appendectomy, a charitable organization worked with me to pay according to my ability...they were of a religious organization that accepts donations within a free market system where others genuinely desire to give to those in need without expecting something back because they have more to offer. I have no guilt in accepting that kind of help.
         
         now when a state, not federal, run healthcare system offers me the choices I need and desire, in an integrated free market economy and conventional and alternative healthcare system, I will give it more thought on being involved in it.
         
         But for now, the only leeches of systems are those that think everyone is the same and deserves the same which just makes everyone a machine-like leech, dependent on a system, where they never learn to think and care for themselves properly...but only think someone else should tell them how to care for themselves and that others should pay for that care
         
         I live as a self responsible person,  typically known as freedom, with free will choices.
         
         I have taken more personal responsibility for my self and my healthcare than most, and have done it according to my constitutional freedoms and ideals.

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Enjoy your conviction and asset seizure, the people of the country choose what taxes you pay and don't through the democratically elected representatives, if you don't like it tough. Personally I will be paying the tax gladly, according to the Harvard study it will save 45 000 lives yearly, I am glad you consider the slight tax raise more important, you are great person.

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      AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      SJ, There are millions of Americans without healthcare coverage. There are those who are struggling and States who will not cover certain procedures. The healthcare bill allows everyone an opportunity and not a single American will be excluded if they have an ongoing illness. Right here in Arizona our unprofessional and ill-mannered Governor denied surgeries for 2 people and they died. She said our state had to make cuts somewhere.
      
      Today I was downtown I had witnessed new furniture coming into a building, doors wide open, shuttle buses for juror and employees; but it was okay to murder people who needed major surgery?
      
      With ObamaCare everyone can make a choice, those who cannot afford it will have a tax-credit to assist and people will no longer be denied. Yes there are pros and cons; but in the end I sincerely believe it will work for everyone. From individual families to small businesses.
      
      I am for Obama Care and its time our Country stops the health insurance companies from robbing the people's paychecks.

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         Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The governors of Texas, Louisiana and Arizona are becoming jokes..

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            AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Ours is nuts! I believe she has the first signs of Dementia and she spews 'hate' across the State of Arizona. Her ridiculous bills that she has passed, would make anyone's skin crawl.
            
            The first person that died at the hands of Governor Brewer was a father of 6 who needed a transplant. His wife had passed away and he had been raising his 6 children. Sadly she denied him the coverage and the necessary treatment, he died I believe it was about 8 months later. Those children no longer have any parents. All she said when interviewed was, " I had to cut funding somewhere." The unemployment is still high in Arizona and if you are a single person without insurance you cannot get insurance from the State. Pitiful a person has to have children to gain anything.
            
            People complain about others and the system. There are many on the system because they lost jobs and have to feed their families. Those are the same people who were taxpayers for years. Go after it I tell people. You paid into it and don't be ashamed.
            
            The second death was a woman who had Cancer and their was a procedure the Insurance would not cover, she to had family. She died. Many of our states have corrupt Governor's who pad their own pockets, drive state cars, live in fancy houses and get the State to pay their health Insurance. Mmmmm.... imagine that.
            
            Since ObamaCare helps everyone, than I am all for it. Nobody would be without coverage. As for Romney declaring he wants to appeal it, should he become President. Why? So millions of people can die and be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions? He is another Hitler we do not need running our Government.

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2. 69

   SparklingJewelposted 12 years ago

   Obama's healthcare would never have become law were it not for the ignorant omissions of information and the aggressive propaganda campaigns waged by most of the liberal media organizations.  The distortions, omissions and blatant spin about the costs, implications and need for a government takeover of our healthcare were outrageous. And I say again, how unconstitutional it all is...media never speaks about constitutionality, of anything.

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3. 69

   SparklingJewelposted 12 years ago

   can these points be refuted?
   
   1. SCOTUS, upholding as Constitutional, the Obama healthcare, sets a disturbing and dangerous precedent. Their ruling in effect confirms that there are no limitations whatsoever on the powers of Congress.
   
   2. To use the now-famous example from the oral arguments in this case, if Congress wished to mandate that everyone buy and eat broccoli, the Court has essentially ruled today that they have such a power.
   
   3. "ObamaCare" takes control of people’s health care decisions out of the hands of doctors and patients and puts them instead into the hands of unaccountable government bureaucrats. By making doctors answerable ultimately to the government and not to their patients, this threatens to corrupt the very foundation of medical ethics.
   
   4. Irrespective of the intentions of those who passed this law, the Act will impair access, increase costs, reduce choice, cripple innovation, and diminish quality of care.
   
   
   5. More challenges to this law: including cases regarding privacy, the conscience exemption, and freedom of contract, and the issue of the IRS now taxing employers without Congressional authorization and absent any statutory authority to do so.
   
   What is needed are patient-centered health care reforms that empower individuals, not the federal government and insurance companies.

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4. 66

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   So... you object to people being required to get health insurance from a provider of their choice?

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      SparklingJewelposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I object to myself being required to buy insurance that offers me nothing that I need or want. It usurps my freedoms and is unconstitutional...read my response above!

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         Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Obviously the Supreme Court disagrees with you.

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         PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Even the healthiest get hit with catastrophic medical bills.  You are gambling that others will pay for your care if it happens to you, the height of irresponsibility.
         
         I know a woman who had a massive heart attack after completing a decathlon.  She was the picture of health on the outside.  Her heart problem had gone undetected for many years.  She ended up with an artificial heart while waiting for a heart transplant, which she eventually received.  She has now lived over 20 years with her new heart.  She was and is covered by insurance.
         
         I hope something like this doesn't happen to you because you'll be hard-pressed to find a nongovernmental organization that will have enough money to pay for all of that plus the incredibly expensive anti-rejection medicines that you would have to take for the rest of your life.

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5. 94

   CMHypnoposted 12 years ago

   In a civilised world shouldn't every person on the planet feel that they can seek the medical care they need without having to worry about paying for it?

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6. 89

   crazyhorsesghostposted 12 years ago

   Again I don't see the problem. O.P. have you read Romney's proposed bill and Obama's bill. The two are nearly the same. Take the politics out of it. I have guaranteed health care for the rest of my life so it doesn't effect me but I think every American should have guaranteed health care. Every American citizen should have health care. And not one dime should be spent over seas as long as one American is with out health care.
   
   We don't need to spend money on war. And when we do fight wars we don't need to rebuild the countries we destroy. Our fine politicians waste enough money on pet projects to pay for health care for every American. The Supreme Court was right in what it did today. Though I don't support either Obama or Romney. It is only fair that richer American's pay more. As they should. We need to throw all of the current politicians out and start over with no lobbyists and strict one term limits in the Senate and Congress. Now that would be a better America. But every American needs health care.

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7. 61

   Cody Hodgeposted 12 years ago

   1. The tax equals one percent of your income. So, a person making minimum wage might pay 100-200 dollars a year. For what it's worth, there is no penalty for not paying the penalty.
   
   2. It is constitutional because the Supreme Court said so. That has been the rule for over 200 years now.
   
   3. A great point that was brought up by Howard Dean.. You're health care is no longer necessarily dependent on your employer anymore. If you can afford your own insurance, you don't have to stay at a crappy job just for the benefits. That's something I'm sure millions of Americans will enjoy.
   
   4. If any side has pushed the most propaganda, it is the GOP. Sarah Palin said "Obama lies, America dies", and "Death Panels". My question is why anyone listens to her. She's like the Tim Tebow of politicians.
   
   5. If my president does lie to me, I'd much rather be lied to about how I'm paying for health care as opposed as to being lied to in order to start a phony war.

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8. 60

   Friendlywordposted 12 years ago

   "no, i paid for what I needed in most cases either in cash or in payments and worked within systems that offered balanced give back, sometimes even in barter!"
   
   Barter...?
   You would give your heart surgeon and Goat?

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Why not give a heart surgeon a goat as payment for services rendered. I'm sure he could do something with it. But, it would have to be agreed upon before services. If I die, oh well. Either way, goat belongs to the doctor.

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9. 75

   Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

   You are playing Russian Roulette and sooner or later your number will come up. What happens if you or your family get hit by a car?
   BTW did you know many health plans today cover alternative medicine and wellness practices? You might be pleasantly surprised
   
   
   Please elaborate. Obamacare doesn't touch your existing coverage. If you have a plan you like there is NOTHING that happens under the ACA. There is nothing TAKEN AWAY. Period. That is right wing propaganda.

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      Friendlywordposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I can't talk about this right now!  I'm chasing two chikens to pay for my liver transplant!

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         Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Hell, Friendlyword.
         I didn't know you owned Foster Farms.
         You're gonna need a lotta birds to pay for a transplant, dude.
         

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            Friendlywordposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Get it straight lady!  I'm not going to pay for my transpant!  I'm going to BARTER two chickens to...oh there goes one now...got to go.

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               TheBadJuJuposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               What's wrong with bartering if it can be done to the satisfaction of both parties involved?

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10. 0

    DigbyAdamsposted 12 years ago

    Sparkling Jewel you are a responsible person, only if charities assist you, according to your story. That's not self-sufficiency and it's not being personally responsible. You're relying on good will that might or might not be there when you need it in the future. Sick people don't always get sick because they are bad people. Illness strikes people who do what they should. I have such a hard time believing that people who are the most vulnerable, hate this bill so much.

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       Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       We are ALL vulnerable. We are all human!
       There's simply no getting around that.
       I can't believe how inhumane the Obamacare haters are.

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          phionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Inhumane? Haters? Really? Let me guess you are not personally affected by obamacare, and think it’s a great idea for everyone to have insurance. It is a great idea for everyone to have insurance, but obamacare won’t cover everyone or force anyone to have coverage. Check the facts…the real facts, they aren’t that hard to find.

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             Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Obamacare will absolutely cover everyone, i assume you are referring to the waivers? Those cover about a thousand businesses and unions until 2014 all the waivers mean is that their insurance spending maximum instead of immediately rising to 750 000 now will become unlimited along with everyone elses in 2014 the waivers are handed for two reasons #1 the insurance they have is already better than the one Obamacare would offer before 2014 or #2 the company has a strong argument that they need time to change their policy or face economic hardship.

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       Friendlywordposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       "Sick people don't always get sick because they are bad people. Illness strikes people who do what they should."
       
       No! People get sick and hit by cars and have babies and get toothaches...because of their bad life choices.  Then they turn up at a hospital with no chickens...no goats...nothing, to barter for their healthcare!
       
       People are irresponsible and don't buy enough chicken feed!

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11. 59

    phionposted 12 years ago

    ohh yes you will...one way or another we will all pay for Obamacare. Just one more government program to suck the life right out of us, and go bankrupt in 20 years or less. They will probably just keep raising taxes, and borrowing money to pay for it, so maybe longer than 20. Good job democrats you had complete control over the government for 2 years, and you thought obamacare was the most important thing to do for America. Thanks now I can rest easy knowing that the most important thing is taken care of….ohh wait the economy still sucks, did they forget about that when they were ramming obamacare down the thoughts of the 50% of Americans that didn’t want it?

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       Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       1. People want this
       
       2. Affordable health care is important
       
       3. Obama can't force businesses to hire. When it comes to making a profit, businesses will use any excuse possible to keep costs down. If it wasn't the health care debate, it would be some other excuse as to why no one wants to hire qualified workers.

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          Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          If a company who has more than 50 employees has to offer healthcare then what do you suppose will happen? 10 will be let go and the problem is solved for them. Democrats never see the big picture.

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             Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             That's a risky proposition to suggest that would happen more often than not. Cutting 10 employees or position, so they don't have to pick up the insurance is stupidity in motion and wouldn't likely be a good business move. Employers are given incentives to offer insurance to employees, such as tax relief. And, the employer doesn't have to pick up the full tab either, which most don't. Cutting 10 people and then expecting 40 other people to increase their production for the 10 missing people isn't a smart move unless something else can do the job of those 10 automatically without worry. Otherwise, it is a worry for any business person.
             Neither do the Republicans or any other politician in office so far.

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             Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Some businesses may. However, that is simply a knee-jerk reaction. As Cagsil says, there is no mandate saying a business has to pick up the whole cost.
             
             Speaking of big picture....
             
             You realize Obama's main rival established the plan in his state when he was governor.
             
             Bobby Jindal wasn't speaking in error when he said "Obamneycare"

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