How Do You...

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   TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

   Any Hubbers willing to help me out with some brainstorming? You're standing before a potentially violent political conflict (insert your own imagination here)...you must get the message to people that they've got to lay down their weapons and be at peace. What do you do? Say?
   
   All thoughts are welcome, humor would be appreciated (although this is serious research).
   
   Thanks in advance, guys!

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      goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That's easy!  You walk out there with a suit on.  You know, real professional looking man.  You remove your jacket and publicly display a bra.  That might just be a good ice breaker and it would appeal to those of alternate lifestyles.

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      mega1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      "Hey, guys! Everybody come on over to my house for chocolate chip cookies and milk!  Last one there's a _______________!" (you fill in the blank, I'm too tired to remember what we used to say.)

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      Arthur Fontesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Drive by with a real gnarly Ice Cream truck with a real cool audio system.
      
      Nobody can resist the ice cream man.
      
      When everyone is eating their ice cream try to find common ground.
      
      "See we all agree ice cream is good"
      
      LOL

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   DevLinposted 13 years ago

   I tell liberals they're acting like christians, and christians are acting like communists. doesn't work all the time.

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   Shadesbreathposted 13 years ago

   You need to make a great speech.  Be Cicero.  Use Aristotelian rhetorical strategies.
   
   You have to perform a speech that does a few things in sequence:
   
   1. You have to prove you understand their needs/desires/trouble
   2. You have to establish ethos as someone worthy of listening to as you speak/perform your appeal.
   3. You have to take your understanding of their needs/troubles and bring down the emotional level through empathy that ebbs toward calm so logic and reason can begin.
   4. Create a syllogistic argument or enthymeme to illustrate a major problem resulting from conflict.
   5. Restate the enthymeme as a metaphor (4 and 5 can be flip-flopped)
   6. Appeal to new emotion based on reasonable/moral foundation you have made.
   7. Restate benefit of new action with a call to action (laying down arms, one more set of talks... etc).
   
   Not sure this helps, but that's what came to mind when I read your OP.

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      TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is extremely helpful. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

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      Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      "Use Aristotelian rhetorical strategies."
      
      So, how many times are you planning on referencing Aristotle? You recently read a book about him and are now going out of your way to try and work it into every and any topic, right?

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         Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sort of.  I read it all the time. I have a few that I go back to religiously.  I write for a marketing company and I have a handful of texts that I go back to repeatedly and he's my favorite by far.  There's so much pop-advice out there, it's good to have something solid to hold on to.  The Rhetoric of Aristotle is like a Bible that you can pop open to certain parts to really help focus a point.
         
         It's nice to see you are still bitter and trying to pick a fight with me, though.  Hanging on my every word, hoping for a shot.  Poor, angry little troll.

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            Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Can't express yourself without resorting to childish insults?

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               Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               Nope.
               
               Your posts make me feel like doing this at you:
               
               

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                  TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  And in a thread about promoting peace too. How ironic.

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                     Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Technically, that post and picture was doing just what your OP is about, the way I see it.  A diffusing measure. 

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                        TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        "I do not bite my thumb AT YOU, sir...but I DO bite my thumb, sir." LOL

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   Sab Ohposted 13 years ago

   Demonstrate superior force that you are prepared to use, then demonstrate the willingness to negotiate.

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      Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That only works if you have superior force.  Sometimes you just have to make a moral or logical appeal based on one or more key elements of human motivation (Aristotle lists pretty much all of them).

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         Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         If you don't have superior force then you exist at another's favor.

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            TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            All too often that seems to be the reality. But, call me naive, perhaps we can do better than that (as a species)?
            
            The playing field needs to be leveled so that humans can co-exist together on reasonable terms. People should not have to exist at another person's favor/whim.
            
            Thank you for your response. It is something to think about.

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               Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               ", call me naive, perhaps we can do better than that (as a species)?"
               
               
               We can't, and we never will.

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                  TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Goodness, that's depressing. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Or is there some reason in particular that you think this?

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                     Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I don't find reality depressing.

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               JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Deleted
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                  Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  You have CLEARLY not read Aristotle's rhetoric. To "manipulate" is to be a sophist, against which Plato fought vehemently and the skill-set thing Aristotle endorsed with moral caveat.  The WHOLE point of Aristotelian rhetoric was the  persuit of Plantonic ideals within the context of reality.  Aristotle's whole point was to identify and isolate the numerous motivators behind human behavoir and to apply the performance structure of the sophists to the persuit of good.
                  
                  If you think that is stupid, well, um... read more or something.

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                     JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Actually, I didn't let the post...post, I realized there was more that I needed to explore, and now you've provided direction for me, and I appreciate it, and am glad my instincts, rather than my impulses, were correct.

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                        Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        No worries.   I probably came down harder than I should have anyway.  The beers are flowing pretty freely this evening.
                        
                        I sort of worship at the altar of the ancient Greeks, so, forgive me for being zealous.  But, well, they just got it so, so deeply.  I kinda go crazy watching our society having these "debates" about things... war, religion, gay marriage, death penatly... u name it, and it's all been debated already. 2500 years ago, and, people get so angry and perplexed that injustice is, etc.
                        
                        It's this animal we are.  It's human-ness.  The essence of the great democracy that spawned the rest was the ability, the DUTY to speak, to communicate.  They wrote great treatise on the art.  The sophists giving charlatan classes to teach exactly what you suggested, the skills of speech to use to push buttons and manipulate to win (Much like modern lawyers use..... WIN the case, truth and justice having nothing to do with it... etc.)  But Aristotle's point was not to disprove Plato's idealistic "silliness" but to say that, you can use the sophist powers of amazing speech giving to make moral points.  If your enemy has a sword and you have only a stick, it behooves you to get a sword to fight for good.

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               Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               "God made man, but Sam Colt made them equal."

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                  TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Ouch. Remind me never to piss you off!

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            Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That is true.  However, great rhetoric can turn the "other" into "yours."

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   TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

   Allllll righty then. Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

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   Doug Hughesposted 13 years ago

   As you can see - it depend on who you are talking to.
   
   SabOh believes in 'superior force' - to get him to put down his gun, you need to have a tank or bazooka.
   
   The only time you will find me (ouside a shooting range or my home) with a gun is in defense of my neighborhood. To get me to  relent, you would have to convince me there is no threat.
   
   For any person willing to use a weapon, there is a different motivation - if you are dealing with a neanderthal, you can only reason with superior force. If they respond to an ethic, you have to appeal to that ethic.

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      Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      You only prove the case for the RIGHT rhetoric.  As you say, YOU could be dissuaded from violence if she could prove there was no threat.
      
      The neanderthal has a different set of needs.  Her rhetoric would have to be different from that she used on you.  She would have to know what the neanderthals were afraid of losing.  Food resources?  Mating opportunities? Security for family?  Power and influence in the region (a level up on the previous ones really). 
      
      Frankly, no offense, but these are exactly what motivates YOU, what you call a "threat."  So, the only difference between convincing you that there is no threat and convincing neanderthals that there isn't one is in the choice of language and method of delivery, the style or the performance of the oratory.  As Goldenpath suggested, there are ways of getting attention with any crowd. You just have to "speak their language" in a way that goes beyond understanding what their words/spelling means. The right "voice," the right "ethos," and a good, stylistic performance of them to get the enthymeme across.

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         JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Enthymeme: noun Logic A syllogism in which one of the premises or the conclusion is not stated explicitly.
         
         'EnThuMeem' (pronunciation) -
         
         The informal method of reasoning typical of rhetorical discourse. The enthymeme is sometimes defined as a "truncated syllogism" since either the major or minor premise found in that more formal method of reasoning is left implied. The enthymeme typically occurs as a conclusion coupled with a reason. When several enthymemes are linked together, this becomes sorites.
         
         Example:
         
         We cannot trust this man, for he has perjured himself in the past.
         In this enthymeme, the major premise of the complete syllogism is missing:
         
             * Those who perjure themselves cannot be trusted. (Major premise - omitted)
             * This man has perjured himself in the past. (Minor premise - stated)
             * This man is not to be trusted. (Conclusion - stated)
         
         2.
             A figure of speech which bases a conclusion on the truth of its contrary.
         
         Example:
         
             If to be foolish is evil, then it is virtuous to be wise.
             This also an example of chiasmus

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   Justine76posted 13 years ago

   riot guns. 

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8. 65

   TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

   @Doug: Thank you...more to think about
   
   @Justine: Unfortunately, that is not an option. A violent victory in the name of peace is no victory at all. Besides...riot guns simply aren't available.

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   JON EWALLposted 13 years ago

   hubbers / Harvey Stelman
   Because it's a story of how Chicago handles political strive,I will tell the story.
   The 1952 democrat convention was held in Chicago. Radical groups were protesting on Michigan boulevard. Mayor Daley ( the present mayor's father) called for calm and peaceful protests by the radicals.So the story goes,the protesters ignored the mayor's request. The Chicago police was dispatched and force was inflicted on the protesters.The local papers showed pictures of many of the beaten participants.
   
   Chicago police are the best in the nation when it comes to peaceful demonstrations.I can't remember the last time the democrats held their convention in Chicago.
   
   Harvey Stelman  probably would remember.

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    kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years ago

    Simple
    
    hire strippers
    
    have the poles brought in
    
    when last piece of tiny ditty bitty piece of clothing is being removed by the
    
    Pamela Anderson look like rippers
    
    just peacefully gather their weapons and offer a lap dance while you leave
    
    guaranteed success 
    
    Your welcome 
    
    
    

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       Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Best idea so far because it works on neanderthals and liberals.

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          Arthur Fontesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          yeah except when they are done the liberals will make them share their tips with the ugly strippers.

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             poetlorraineposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             wow this is a bit deep...

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             Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             No I see no reason why the liberal strippers should have to share with teabagger strippers.

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          N. Ramiusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          But won't work on religious puritans. You could calm one group and start another riot.

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             Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Religous Puritains would *claim* to be against it, but they would be in the front row with dollar bills between their teeth, trying to entice the dancers...

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                TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                LOL it would be a huge scandal! LOL

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       TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       LOL Kim, this might be the best idea we've got going!!

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    kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years ago

       

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    mega1posted 13 years ago

    

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       KFlippinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I think that helps the Spider with her brainstorming.....good answer....

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    mega1posted 13 years ago

    make a natural disaster, you know flood, earthquake, tornado, volcano etc.  everybody stops fighting to dig out and clean up

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       TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       That's an excellent idea. If it were a story, that's the way I would go probably.

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    kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years ago

    tic tac anyone?
    
    sorry for the interruption
    
    

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