Is FOX News a catalyst for change or fodder for the masses?

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rhamsonposted 13 years ago
With claims of being the "Fair and Balanced" take on reporting and the #1 news network in the nation, are we to believe they have a corner on the truth and spin because of their ratings?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Its the mouthpiece for the anti-Christ, thought you knew.
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So you perceive a doomsday scenario as its' motive?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ay yi yi
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I thought a stupid question was in line with your observation.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have succeeded in your quest.
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe they don't understand that some people watch Fox News for entertainment only because as far as 'real news' reporting goes, what does it have to do with fair and balanced? News is the news. They have some news broadcast but mostly all their "news" is opinions.
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wouldn't you agree that News should reflect the facts and be cognizant of the diservice it does to people who are less discerning?
  
  "Fear can only prevail when victims are ignorant of the facts."
  
  "The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them; inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors."
  Thomas Jefferson
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You talkin bout MSNBC ? They are the H1N1 of cable news.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't it PMSNBC?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Correct, with Faux news being std of cable news!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is it politically correct to refer to an STD as an STD?
  
  Maybe they like to be called Bacterial eruptions or Viraly challenged.
  
  Ya gotta think of their feelings!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I meant Silly Television Dudes, Buck! Does it mean something else in Texas?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Georgia is way behind the civilized states.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just because Texas leads the country in STDS you don't have to be smug about it!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think that distinction belongs to Mississippi!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dang. I thought it was California.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I'm assuming thats a per capita statistic.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't give up! You can make a difference!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And here I thought you were more of a gentleman
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Aren't you a fan of "fair and balanced?"
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Defined by whom?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The fans of Faux News, of course!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, that's Buck!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I try and treat ladies as ladies, I have been unsuccessful at times.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am aghast, Buck!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thats a little rude Randy!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He's just mad because I don't agree with him enough. I guess I don't know my "place".
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You got that right...Sugar
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oooooh noooo . . . it's deja vu all over again !!!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I experienced Vu JaDe once.
  
  Thats the feeling you have never done anything before!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now that's not fair! You're pretty smart for a girl!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Shall I blush and bat my eyes now?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How bout an apple, it'll make you even smarter! It's worked before!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why don't you go have some coffee with Doug Hughes. You'll have so much to talk about
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You may be correct! Here, have a few more apples, just one isn't going to do you much good. LOL
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently so. They are blowing away the competition. CNN used to be the standard. Now they are barely a blip on the radar screen
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If most people were watching Fox for it's entertainment value, then MSNBC should have earth-shattering viewing numbers and be leaving Fox in the dust with their ratings.
  
  Fox isn't a paid mouthpiece for the Democratic Party, therefore, you at least get both sides "fairly" presented of important events or issues in the news. Katie Couric, among others, has made a fool of herself, and is a nice example of a journalist forgetting the meaning of the word.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They will never buy the truth.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, it's the mouthpiece for the republicans.
  Bush was a HERO over there, while Obama is blamed for an oil spill.
  Fox reporter started the "sabotage" talk.
  
  Fair and Balanced....if you're a concrete slab!
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We do endow our Presidents with God-like powers don't we! Bush was God of the Weather and brought us Katrina, and Obama is God of the Seas, and brought us an oil spill.....those Greeks don't have nothin' on us.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The final Katrina death toll was over 4,000. And the death toll in the Oil rig fire is 11. FOX is reaching more than a bit to try to lay the OIL spill and/or response on Obama as ANYTHING comparable to Katrina in cost, impact or fatalities.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are kidding yourself, or you haven't bothered to read and listen to the details, this oil spill will have tremendous impact on thousands of human and animal lives for many many years, including lots of cows who graze on marsh grasses. Thankfully the loss of human life was not immense, but a loss, not sure why you would use such a comparison, strikes me as insensitive.
  
  Fox is in no way saying Obama is responsible for this spill, that's lib lunacy, and some of your very own liberals have been critical to the Administration's lack of urgency in addressing the situation.
  
  However, just as Katrina's flooding was an unexpected event, so is the inability of apparently anyone to control the oil gushing from that well.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If it wasn't drilled, it would not have to be capped.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My, you are brilliant, I had briefly forgotten just how brilliant, if I had been intellectually on the ball I'd have recalled it was pointless to engage your brilliance. But you know conservatives, we aren't terribly bright and can be forgetful at times.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Awww, JW - I didn't mean to intimidate you. C'mon back and play. I'll try to take it easy on you.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't your Obamagod want to start drilling off the coast of Alaska?
  
  So if one of those rigs blow it will be his fault?
  
  Maybe Obama has been slow to react in a competent manner on this latest oil spill because he isn't competent?
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  Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Surely you jest! Have you been reading this tread? Scroll back to RebekahELLE's comment concerning the Fair and Balanced Fox News.
  (I quit watching them years ago when the foxnews/monsanto coverup incident took place where they killed an investigative story done by two news reporters in tampa, fl.)
  And I think your problem with Katie Couric is, she made a fool of Sarah Palin in front of the whole world.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So one episode is reason to not trust a news agency?
  
  Ever hear of Dan Rather?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I definitely have a problem with Katie Couric - but that's not it
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  rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't watch it. I usually watch PBS newshour, it's just the facts and they have in-depth interviews.
  I quit watching them years ago when the foxnews/monsanto coverup incident took place where they killed an investigative story done by two news reporters in tampa, fl. now you can google it and find it in a matter of seconds.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They don't have a corner on the truth; they just have cornered the media art of actually TELLING the truth.
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  JON EWALLposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hubbers
  Apparently something happening at Fox News makes them #1 in cable news.
  '' fair and balanced '' '' you decide we report '', that's their motto.
  
  Cavuto and Beck in the afternoon are informative as to what is truly happening in Congress and Washington.
  Beck exposed the relationships of Obama with Goldman Sachs, Soros,Al Gore and radicals in the Obama administration.
  i don't recall any of the majors picking up the stories that expose Congress and President Obama.The red phone on the Beck's show hasn't rang yet ( direct line with the white house ), wonder why?
  
  Well, to each his own, that/s what makes the world go around.
  
  Obama and the Democrats are pushing Finance Reform, they want quick action, wonder why?
  You haven't heard much about new jobs for the private sector lately, wonder why?
  Jobs and unemployment are again on the back burner,now it's all about the Arizona Immigration law that Obama and the Justice Department is looking into.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can't have States writing laws to protect their citizens that's downright unAmerican ain't it?
  
  Whatever you do don't ask someone for their ID in one of the States, but the Feds can do it all day everyday at the airport.
  
  As for Beck, I have no idea what he is saying about anything, contrary to what the shills overpopulating the forums think I don't watch much FOX news.
  
  But it sure riles em up when someone defends FOX, they get all frothy at the mouth and talk bad about your football team!
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  Mikelo22posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand why it's always FOX that gets the bad rap. MSNBC is just as bad. The real funny part about this whole argument, however, is how both sides are so quick to call out FOX or MSNBC for being an extended wing of the Republican and Democratic Party respectively, while the stations, such as CNN, who try to be as neutral as possible don't receive any credit. In fact, CNN's ratings continue to plummet.
  
  Whether we care to admit it or not, America likes controversy and disagreement. Just 'reporting the facts' doesn't gain viewership anymore. Idealistic journalism is on the rise.
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Greek Oneposted 13 years ago
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Buck Steinerposted 13 years ago
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that not all news sources have a particular bias, FOX is no more biased than MSNBC or CNN.

The real problem you and people like you have is the bias FOX shows is completely different than the bias you like.

They are not reporting lies or misinformation in their news department no matter how many times you say they are.
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, you see, they just aren't reporting news. Real news. Real news is stuff like the Volcano erupting in Iceland or local grocery store goes under or how many men have died today in the war.
  
  That is news. It doesn't change to suit a particular channel. It stays the same across the board.
  
  Fox, on the other hand... while they do have a couple of actual news broadcast, are not reporters, they are opinionated columnist. Like Dear Abby but more negative. They broadcast like a soap opera. The gossip and drama is unreal and I think they make their own news up because it gets rating.
  
  So unfortunately you are ill informed about what news is. Who a senator boinked is not news! lol
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Golly gee, thanks for splaining it to me.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's funny how completely some folks just cannot see their own bias but see it everywhere else.
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Saboh, what are you saying? I have to watch Fox news? No I don't have to watch it, I do watch it sometimes and sometimes I agree with some of their opinions but it is not the channel I would rely on for accurate reporting.
  
  If there is a problem with that then it seems it is the doing of Fox who has you believing that if someone doesn't watch Fox news for their news then they are against the world.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, that is not what I'm saying, so the rest of your argument with yourself is on you.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They do do that. Have you watched it before? Or visited their website?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously not.
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be so selective. I said twice that that do have some news broadcast but I am under the impression that you think Glen Beck or the O'Reily factor is news.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually no, we are considerably smarter than the average MSNBC viewer! Ok, all 4 MSNBC viewers!
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  LegendaryHeroposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't watch/listen to them. I know that they aren't news, just opinion. I was just saying that they do have a lot of "real news."
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you do realize that just because you don't like whats being said doesn't automatically make it wrong.
  
  Never mind, I'm sure you don't realize that.
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Doug Hughesposted 13 years ago
For those of you who follow intelligent conservative discourse (and there is such a thing, but not on FOX) David Frum is a leader - a GOP conservative, thinking leader. Shortly after Health Care Reform passed he wrote in an editorial -

"I've been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes, it mobilizes supporters -- but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead.

The vitriolic talking heads on conservative talk radio and shock TV have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination...

When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say -- but what is equally true -- is that he also wants Republicans to fail.

If Republicans succeed -- if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office -- Rush's listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less and hear fewer ads for Sleep Number beds.

So today's defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it's mission accomplished. "

There's the problem with FOX and Rush. They are not about solving problems. It's all about ratings and a power grab for conservatives with no consideration for what's in the best interests of the country.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
I'm glad it's only conservative talk shows that are full of vitriol. Yes, Keith Olbermann is a shining example of a fair, balanced, sane, thoughtful host. NOT!!

I don't like Olbermann or Beck. To me, they're two sides of the same coin. I don't like hate speech from either side!
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. When taking a step back, it is easy to see what their talk is doing to the people who follow them. *shutter*
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You would think that its only the conservatives with all of the intellectually dishonest people who post here.
  
  Truth is its extremists on both sides, you know, the squeeky wheel get the grease and the audience and then the money!
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I will agree with that.
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Habee - check who my source is. He's a CONSERVATIVE. And his point is that the GOP refuse constructive compromise and allow Limbaugh and Beck, who are entertainers (at best) control the options which will be allowd the GOP officials the influence of the GOP shrinks.
  
  I believe in a 2-party system that gets things done through debate and compromise. The system in the US is degenerating into paramentary terrorism by the conservative minority.
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's creepy.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, Doug. I have never, ever listened to Limbaugh, and I hate it when my husband watches Beck.
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  Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How could you put Keith Olbermans' name in the same sentence with GLEN BECK?. That is such a hurtful statement. I going to have to ask you to be a nice lady and apologize. Otherwise, you will have seriously hurt and insulted every clear thinking fellow citizen in this Country. I never heard this type of talk from you before. You always spoke with some type of reasoning.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ???
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I used to watch Keith - until the deomcratic primary. When he looked into the camera and spoke with such hatred directly to Hillary, I turned on him. BTW, guess which network Hillary says she got the fairest treatment from? FOX!
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  Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are right about Keith Olberman getting a litte too passionate at times. But, you know he never lied to us. And I think Keith and alot of Democrats were upset at how mean Hillary acted during the primary.
  
  And there's no way Hillary Clinton would make a statement like that about Fox News. You just said that to hurt me again. Admit it!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Olberman wouldn't lie
  
  I used Google for you, happy reading
  
  http://www.google.com/search?q=olberman … =firefox-a
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  Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Duh Duh Duh thank you for telling me about that whole google thingy. I used it. Because I knew if Keith Olbermann made a statement that turned out to be inaccurate he would correct himself as soon as possible.
  
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/2 … 34129.html
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Huffington post?
  
  The national inquirer doesn't have a website?
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  tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Friendly word right on ! I feel bad for Glen Beck too ! LOL !
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The problem habee, is that they won't admit Fox is hate speech.
  You see? They justify it and condone it and excuse it.
  In other words, it's ok for them to hate, because they give it another name: Patriotism.
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
If you watch any one news channel way more than another, you will have a problem with getting the most accurate coverage of any story. This includes MSNBC, Faux News, CNN, etc.

Watch them all, go online, read newspapers, don't fall for being a sympathetic ear or you end up being just an ear.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And listen to the BBC!
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  rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  good source, hey btw, any predictions on the British election tomorrow??
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think Labour may do better than expected, but otherwise, a hung Parliament anyway I would guess, with labour wielding an icecream stick instead of a barge pole.
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  rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't been following it too closely, but saw the trouble Brown got himself into. It will be interesting to see who triumphs.
  
  the problem with faux news is their emphasis on placing blame. I really don't like that or respect it. I want to hear the news, that's it. and then I turn it off. some people watch these stations all day and night and they wonder why they're unhappy and borderline hysteria.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Correct Earnest! Many Americans refuse to listen or watch news channels from other countries, especially news concerning the United States. Patriotism means keeping your head buried in the sand to some folks.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "And listen to the BBC! "
  
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. That why I watch Shepherd Smith, O'Reilly, Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, Anderson Cooper, and Joe Carter. I also read a number of online newspapers, ranging from uber liberal to moderate to far right.
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Buck Steinerposted 13 years ago
We should say no to "paramentary terrorism"!

WTF is "paramentary terrorism"
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I bet 10 bucks that Beck would say it is the 'progressives' lol ROTF!
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  robogunnyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  One thing about Beck, is that he tells it like it is knowing that there are people like you out there that will argue the truth. Put it to test for yourself, and that is, Prove him wrong..........Sometimes I don't want to hear it, but hey, the truth is the truth.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really! Are you unaware of Beck's past? Before he was paid to push the right he was paid to push the left. The truth is what he is paid the most to tell. You guys scare me!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whether he is paid to push a certain agenda is irrelevant if he is telling the truth.
  
  I don't watch him so I don't know.
  
  Don't be scared Randy, I'll protect you.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You might be the "Faux" in the hen house, Buck!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep.
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  robogunnyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What really scares me is for someone to attack another person without the proper knowledge or proper investigative information. I will stand by my statement of asking anyone that believes Beck is telling an untruth, then show it. On your statement of "pushing" left or right or center, or not at all, that doesn't hold water at all. The world is made up of people that has opinions, right or wrong, and then later we hear of them changing their view.
  Case in point, Sen. Arlen Specter of Pa, Writer Dick Morris, and of course the many promises that our present President has broken, for whatever reason.
  Right or wrong, History will tell.
  
  If my being honest scares you, I apologize, but I cannot and will not apologize for what is right, especially if it can't be proven to be false. That is all I am saying.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Semper Fidelis Gunny, Semper Fidelis!
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  robogunnyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Semper Fidelis my Friend............Now that is worth talking about.....
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What scares me is not what Beck is saying, but those who do not take in consideration the motive of the speaker. I pay no attention to anything Beck says, now or ever. I assume you do the same with other controversial figures. How many of Michael Moore's movies have you watched? Ever watched Fahrenheit 911?
  
  Usually, true Faux News aficionados are instructed not to watch certain movies. And many obey!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know they obey? You're just assuming because you don't like what Beck has to say under any circumstances.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually Sean Hannity has had Michael Moore on his show and pushed his last film for him.
  
  You have never actually seen FOX news, have you?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  actually, I saw that program, Buck. I laughed my butt off! So, yes I watch Faux News occasionally. It's still not as funny as "The Daily Show." But it is getting close.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  See, it has some value for you after-all.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They do have many blonde women with short skirts!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They do have a lot of good looking women giving the news, PMSNBC has Rachael Maddow, I think I'd rather see you in a skirt than her.
  
  Disclaimer
  Buck Steiner in no way wants to see Randy Godwin or any other male in a skirt!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know Buck! Don't tell me you haven't been looking at my tail!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you really wanna see something "funny", watch Obama's speil at the Congressional dinner, making jokes while terrorists attack and the coast is in danger of being totally pollluted and our borders cater to crime. The court jester's been given a seat in the White House. What a crock of crap liberal America's got us all into!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think I have already asked you not to address me, Brenda. I do not care to converse with you. Last time!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You "think" is it.
  Nowhere that I know of did you ask me not to address you until just now. Perhaps you're thinking of some rude post you may have made toward me or about me while I was banned and unable to even address you at all! Several of those type comments were flying around freely from similars like you.
  
  So, just for the record, your insinuation plus your demand is now noted.
  
  Same to you. Don't talk to me or about me. PLUS don't tell anymore lies concerning me, Randy, or whoever you are.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I asked you before you were banned. I have never lied about you. There was no reason to, your truth is worse than any lie I could invent. Record noted, the same as. with the troll and mormon priest
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  robogunnyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure about who is instructed to watch certain movies or not, however, I for one have never heard that being said. About Michael Moore's movies, no, they just didn't grab me in the right spot, as many don't. But wow, not sure when the last time was that I was instructed not to watch a movie............still thinking.......
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Its probably subliminal, the libs have some interesting conspiracy theories.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So you aren't interested in looking at different viewpoints of the Iraq war, right! I'm not saying you have to believe anything anyone says in the media, but only following those who you agree with can have bad consequences.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And watching anything by Michael Moore will make your brain leak out your ears! If you're going to listen to the "other side" at least pick an intelligent source.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know X, that there Cuban health care looks pretty good.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, uh, you'd like to live in Cuba? Didn't ever think that about you Buck, but I could be wrong . . .
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please tell me who is an "intelligent" source from the "other side." I genuinely would like to know.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is a call you must determine for yourself. If you think there are no intelligent opposing viewpoints then your mind needs a little broadening that is probably outside the scope of this venue
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good evasive answer!
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You said "If you're going to listen to the "other side" at least pick an intelligent source."
  
  So, I am asking you who YOU think is an intelligent source, since you obviously don't think Michael Moore meets that criteria. I'd like to know your opinion.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why? So you can diss it? You'll find something wrong with anyone I name.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think she is trying to go another route, she doesn't think you will answer the question because there is no one intelligent on the left to you.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I have read a number of intelligent people who lean a bit left. But my position is that anything left of at least center is a self-defeating stance to begin with. So any commentary proceeding from that premise is, by definition, not very intelligent.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I promise to offer no reply whatsoever. I genuinely would like to know.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Say what you like
  
  Alan Keyes
  Charles Krauthammer
  Joe Farrah
  Michelle Malkin
  Ann Coulter
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  LegendaryHeroposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ron Paul! That man always says it like it is.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, but I was trying to get Madame to tell me who she thought was an intelligent source from the left. Instead, she gave me a list of right-wingers.
  
  I wouldn't call Ron Paul a leftie, but he's closer than Ann Coulter.
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  LegendaryHeroposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oops, I misread it, I thought you wanted an intelligent source from the Right. Sorry.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No worries, I must not have been very clear, but apparently she did, too.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I thought the same thing!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  See, you are making my point for me. Michael Moore is just as honest as Faux News in the "truth in reporting" field. The money is more important than the truth. Gee, wake up will ya! Do you people actually think these guys have your interest at heart, really?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You were Challenged to prove Beck was not telling the truth!
  
  Just because you repeat that the money is more important than the truth doesn't make it so.
  
  Can you prove he is lying?
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/cash-for-clunkers/
  
  Fox News’ Glenn Beck said that the government will get complete access to your computer and all of your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers program. This claim is false. Beck quoted from a security message on the site for dealers, not the site for the general public.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds like a mistake not a lie, and really, is that the best you got?
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I knew that would be your response. I could list many "mistakes" made by Glenn Beck. How many mistakes can one make before they are no longer mistakes, but deliberate attempts to deceive? At what point does a person who purports to be telling the truth that no one else will tell take responsibility for his "mistakes"?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  List them.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And whose info would the dealer be putting into the computer?
  
  Certainly not his own, so in essence he was telling the truth.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't claim Beck never told the truth. I sure he does sometimes. Are you saying he's never lied? I doubt it, but this is not my point. Depending on one major news source is hazardous. This is my opinion, you may disagree as is your right!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't calling FOX news "Faux" news implying the entire network is lying to us all?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He wouldn't have an argument if he didn't generalize
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose faux means something different in Texas. Go to Home Depot and try to by some faux wood blinds, except tell them you want "lying" wood blinds instead.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Come on Randy, you can do better than that. If I tell you a false story have I lied?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Only if we both know it's a lie!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good evasive non answer!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not evasive. If a person believes the lies spun by another, it becomes their truth. This whole thread proves it by those who trust "FOX" News implicitly. Many of them are afraid to get other viewpoints. I know this to be true because I know many people who base their political opinions on this one source.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (He's referring to my husband!)
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whats happening Habee?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're killing me with the word games, but whatever.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No one here has said they base their political opinions on this one, or any other one source. You seem to have a desire or necessity to lump us all together.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, you seem to take up for them so I figured you trusted them! What news source do you watch most often?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I take up for them because they have made the most sense to me at times. No other network does so. I read a number of internet sources and I talk to people.
  
  I think it's you who needs more apples this time Randy
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And my last question?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  TCM
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As long as I believe you watch TCM for your news I don't know your lying!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If I'm going to watch news its Sheppard Smith for me, I read the Huffington post so I can get a good laugh. I have watched PMSNBC several times and come away dumber than when I started.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good heavens! A lie is a lie whether you know you've been lied to or not. Snap out of it
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So you don't watch Fox news? You believe they always tell the truth? Snaps for everyone, on me!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ***sigh***
  
  I watch it occasionally.
  
  No one always tells the truth.
  
  Why don't we raise the level of this conversation above 5th grade playground logic, hmmm?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, you'll need a few more apples though!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, Randy, I'd never make your point for you And Moore is not equal to Fox. A lot of what Beck says is the truth, but Moore strikes me as a lying whore.
  
  (nice little rhyme, huh )
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In Moore's "911" movie there was a clip where Dumbya said "I not concerned with where Bin Laudin is right now." (paraphrased) Bush denied saying this until the now infamous clip was aired on many news networks. I don't remember if Faux News reported it or not. YUK So the lying whore was correct and Dumbya was wrong. Hmmm.....what do you think? Denial?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Quick - what do you call a liar who tells one little truth?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A liar?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, denial!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I love paramentary cheese sandwiches!
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  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Senate Republicans voting as a block to not allow discussion and debate to even start on financial reform. The GOP is in the minority but they can prevent critical issues from even coming up for discussion much less a vote - and they DO.
  
  There are nearly 100 positions in the government that have qualified candidates and individual GOP senators have secretly put 'holds' on those nominations. In some cases it's extortion to get pork for their states.
  
  Linsy Graham threatening to withdraw from bipartisan talks on energy reform if the Senate is going to consider comprehensive immigration reform.
  
  Record high use of the fillibuster to block legislation.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for clearing that up, all this time I just thought it was some shit you made up, oh wait, it is!
  
  The definition of "paramentary terrorism" is?
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sandra rinckposted 13 years ago
Cupcake anyone?
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
Case in point! LOLOLOL!
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MikeNVposted 13 years ago
Fox is a for profit broadcasting network offering a particular audience material they want to consume.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So is American Idol, whats your point?
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habeeposted 13 years ago
The only time Randy has watched FOX is when he was visiting my husband once while FOX was on. Randy threw up all over my new sofa!
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PrettyPantherposted 13 years ago
To respond to the original question, I actually watch quite a bit of Fox News since I live with my fiance' who is a conservative and frequently has it on. Truthfully, there a few legitimate journalists on the network. Shepard Smith comes to mind. However, they are vastly overrun by the opinion folk and the vacuous talking heads who follow the company line.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They're called commentators, thats what they do, they commentate!
  
  Weird huh?
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and in the process of commentating, they deceive. I think you actually know this to be true, but would never admit it.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'll admit it. The key is that if you're going to watch tv news at all you have to go in with your lie-detector filters in place. Otherwise why bother?
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I completely agree with you on that. Unfortunately, not everyone takes the time to sort the lies from the truth, which is why we should hold people like Beck accountable, even if they are only commentators and not journalists.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Beck is the least of our worries, however. Olberman, Matthews, Maddow, Colmes, I'm not sure how any of them can sleep at night
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All of them should be held accountable, if they make a "mistake" as Texan likes to call them.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You provided one little non-important thing he said and say he is lying, it sounded more like a mistake to me, do you have anything else?
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  Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK...I'm leaving now. This is getting way too Crazy and Scary.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really, was there a particular time I was deceived?
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Charles Krauthammer is the smartest journalist on TV.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would pretty much agree with that.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Raul, glad you made it home safely, amigo!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, I made it! That stinko day Mayonaise party was fun.
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china manposted 13 years ago
You'all are beginning to sound just like Fox Spews - loads of vitriol and no substance or truth.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Hi, Buck! Glad you're back - I missed you!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhhhhh, ain't you sweet! I missed everyone but Randy, he ain't right.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, but he kinda grows on ya...like a fungus...or maybe a wart.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I guess he's alright, for a snake.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You forgot "inflamed boil!"
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I thought it was "festering" boil?? Festering sounds better...er...worse.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Are those numbers in the corner of our pic our IQ? Just wondering...
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not fair habee
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't say that, Madame! I'll be accused of being FOX News!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's our serving numbers! Save you a seat!
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Madame, this is freakin' hilarious!

http://hubpages.com/hub/Picture-Gallery … sic-Movies

And yes, I laugh at Bush jokes, too! I'm an equal opportunity giggler!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  habee, you're a gem
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Buck Steinerposted 13 years ago
I'm outa this snakepit!

Later Y'all
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
Me too! Some of us have to work!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And some of us have to sip Margaritas by the pool!
  
  Its how I roll
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JON EWALLposted 13 years ago
hubbers
I enjoyed the comments from the left and the right. The only thing that should matter is what is the truth.
I happened to watch the Finance Reform hearings on C-Span where Secretary Geithner was testifying. Double talk mostly, relapse of memory and not answering direct questions from the senators.
I caught Glen Beck on Fox News, he was exposing the questionable relationships of Goldman Sachs( campaign funding to Obama and some Dem's $33 MILLION ),the unions ( SEIU and the AFLCIO ),Frank Raines (took $90 million out of Fannie Mae ),Joel Rodgers (the apollo alliance group, they wrote the healthcare bill for congress ),Al Gore ( investments in the Chicago Climate Exchange),Joyce foundation (connections with Obama and Valerie Jarrett)and our president barack Obama.
GLEN BECK USED OLD ACTUAL NEWS CLIPS TO SUPPORT THE ACCUSATIONS

There is an old saying '' Knowledge is power '' , '' You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all of the time ''.

Some sources of info to consider (uncut and open discussion).
The economy and the market
Business programs, Fox programs on sat and weekly CNN and others
live ,uncut and not biased
C-Span
Internet ( biased and not factual in many cases)
Weekly news broadcasts (take your pick but check for accuracy between each to formulate the truth).
Without different opinions, hubbers would have no place to go looking for the facts.
SOMEONE ONCE SAID !

Let me be clear ‘’ we want the whole truth and nothing but the truth ‘’ so help me God
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  watch this and then tell me about his "truth":
  
  Glenn Beck's Fake Crying Photoshoot
  4 min 54 sec - Jun 19, 2009
  www.youtube.com
  
  Olbermann and Maddow don't do this. Nor do they call themselves Real Americans.
  
  As opposed to what, btw? Us fake americans?
  
  Fox is is an intelligence psy-op. Watch this and tell me different:
  
  OUTFOXED : Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism
  78 min - Sep 13, 2006
  video.google.com
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rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago
obviously, you don't know the story. it's not about one episode. it's about who decides what can be aired to the american public; lies, deception and the corporations with powerful lawyers waiting to pounce if news journalists actually do their job and report real facts.
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  ErictheGatorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fox,MSNBC,CNN, and the rest of the news media are all reporting from their own biases and slant on the facts. Truth is secondary to ratings for these so called journalists. People need to take all the reporting with a grain of salt and do some fact checking instead of blindly believing any news media.
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  rebekahELLE have you read Bernard Goldberg's book Bias. I believe it is from Harper press. Your sentiments are clearly voiced in his accounts of working in network news and the distortions and out and out lying that takes place for ratings.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
I agree, Eric, but I hate your avatar pic! lol
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rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago
sadly, I do agree. it's almost impossible to know what is really true. even sadder, that people actually live their lives in accordance with what is reported on these 'news' outlets.
I can hardly talk with one of my relatives any longer, because she is fox news loyalist and believes whatever they report and brings every conversation back to (hysteria) politics.

I see you're a Gator fan. yeah, go gators!!

no, I haven't seen this book. I'm sure it is an interesting read. I think it's pretty clear we're not getting the real stories, especially when they come back and change something they reported earlier! anything to please the advertisers with the deep pockets.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you can't talk to your relative, then one or both of you is taking things too personally.
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  rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  of course I can talk to her, what I mean is that when we talk, she will start talking about issues and how we need to do this and that, and starts getting angry. I've talked to her and how it's affecting her and she knows, but she is addicted to watching it. I guess I could have clarified my statement more Sab.
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  PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have had this experience, too, with rabid Fox news watchers. There are people who I have known and loved for years who used to be able to carry on a rational, calm conversation about politics and can no longer do so. I can't say for certain that it's their addiction to Beck/Hannity/Rush that has unleashed their irrational side but it sure seems so. They appear to consider any disagreement as a personal attack and those who have a different political view as enemies.
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think this is what is at the heart of the problem.
  
  "If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger?"
  T. H. Huxley Science & Culture IV. 1881
  
  Opinions and views offered on the Fox shows such as Fox and friends offer little other than conspiracy theories and inuendo that is meant to manipulate people into their collective reasonings.
  
  I watch it for a hoot and to see what nonsense Obama is responsible for each day. I watch other shows to at least glean a cursory understanding of the daily newsmakers.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The 'other' side's bias is always shocking but your own is almost always invisible to you.
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree and that is why we have to listen to all sides when making any decision as to where we stand.
  
  "Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by doing so some people have entertained angels without knowing it" Hebrews 13:2
  
  I try to practice this and with most diligence when talking to you.
  
  I have hope for you yet.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Faux uses a very subtle form of brainwashing its victims. By focusing on child abuse, abortion, gun control, religion, homosexuality, and other points which convince Faux news adherents of their talking points, they can slip in less truthful items and get away with them.
  
  The watchers seldom watch other news sources so they know no better. They will then fiercely defend the network and, as many of us have witnessed, get quite angry when you try to explain why they are wrong about much of their information.
  
  Many are hopelessly mired though, with no chance of getting the whole story anywhere else.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Faux uses a very subtle form of brainwashing its victims. "
  
  As opposed to how CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc. treat their victims?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have told you before, do not address me troll. I have no interest in anything you have to say or think. Last warning!
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying that CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc. use a different kind of brainwashing? Maybe not so subtle, is that it?
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they are all vehemently pro-Israel. They showed Operation Cast Lead, but the commentary was as if they were watching a football game.
  Not one condemnation of the slaughter.
  Our view of the world here is juvenile.
  And deliberately so.
  
  Pretty faces, collegiate attitudes, no hard-hitting truth seekers.
  
  That may be too extreme--,that guy on msnbc at 6:00 is pretty good, and Olbermann...his commentary during Bush was always SPOT ON!, but that's how it seems to me.
  
  And can't forget the charlatans...those cons who manipulate with emotional bs.
  
  Infotainment/glam news.....I want to know like Grayson said: who took our $1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000?!!!
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Randy have some patience with TK ....er I mean Sab Oh. He is still learning how to address issues by adding something rather than taking away. The attack dog stance is something that has to be unlearned.
  
  You have to admit he has the FOX one liners down pretty good.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, no one can explain these different forms of brainwashing?
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All of it is brainwashing as it plays to it's audience. Whether it is trying to sell you something or convincing you that something else is so, it has a purpose.
  
  Falling in with one camp and defending it through clenched teeth is a sure fire way to be diverted away from the issue. Remember the politicians don't want you to know the truth so how do you think a system that is in collusion with them is going to figure it out for you.
  
  For instance if you want to hear something about the wars that is positive you would probably look to Fox and especially Ollie North to tell you what you want to hear. Do you expect MSNBC to review Ollie Norths report with a positive spin when they are dead set against it?
  
  That is why I take in as much as I can from all of them and keep my B#$$@^!T alert wide open for what does not make sense.
  
  If you have only one source you have only one take to get it right.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Many of us do the same, Rhansom. I trust no one news source for all of the important details. Even if they all agree (rare indeed) it is still good to do a intensive search for opposing factors.
  
  Faux News watchers are the most defensive of them all. They seem to feel you are attacking them instead of the network. I find these people to be the least informed of any political group. But this is what Faux News wants. Terror alert- elevated!
  
  Faux kept the terror alerts going long after other networks stopped. Coincidentally, any time a republican got into trouble or a democrat looked good in the news, the terror alert was raised.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have no patience for trolls, especially those who only ask questions and have no answers. I've never reported anyone here, but I have been tempted because of this troll, a female religious nut, and a creepy priest. None of the three are worth conversing with.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you can't answer a question, just admit it and move on instead of getting so upset. Don't take things so personally.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm still waiting for a list of all of the bogus news reports that all of you say FOX is putting out.
  
  If you got em show em!
  
  Don't talk about it be about it!
  
  That is all, carry on!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hello again, Buck. Faux news anchors pushed the idea of Obama's not having a birth certificate and being a Muslim. One of their "blonde short-skirted anchorettes expressed her opinion of Obama not being president because of the particular swearing in process.
  
  Being ignorant is no excuse, you may say as your excuse for her, but untruth is still evident in the message. Bush's own press secretary stated both Faux and the white house collaborated on the particular "talking points" for the day.
  
  The Teri Schiavo incident was a shameful incident for Faux News as they used wacko priests and rabbis to condemn her poor husband who took great care of her for many years. When the truth came out about her not having any chance of ever regaining the ability to think again, Faux dropped it like a hot potato. Do you think they apologized to the poor man, Buck? I would not like to see you placed in that man's position, nor anyone else. A shameless act by any news organization.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well hello Randy, Can you provide a name of the anchor who pushed the birth certificate issue? The swearing in fiasco was covered by every cable news outlet and speculated about by a lot of different people.
  
  I recall very little specifics of the Terri Schiavo deal, but I do know that all of the networks ran piece after piece about her and her husband. I remember most of what I heard was speculation about the husbands involvement in her predicament, this was long before I was watching FOX news.
  
  I have searched and only found that FOX has run stories on the Birth certificate issue just like every other network and cable-news outlet has done. Lou Dobbs (late of CNN) ran more stories and pushed the Birthers claims unapologetically more than any other cablenews or network ever thought about, and I don't see you running CNN down.
  
  I see an effort by many on hubpages to belittle those who lean right and of course FOX news has to be thrown in for good measure, I see most of these people as shills for the Democrat party and the Obama administration in particular!
  
  If it seems to you that I want to undermine the Obama administration and seek to destroy any policies he initiates, then you have a good eye! Democrats and especially Barack Obama do not represent me, I do not want his Presidency to succeed because if it does then my Country will suffer.
  
  Say what you want about me or my beliefs but know that I will stand and fight for those beliefs, I am in a position that I do not have to sit by and watch this clown destroy our economy silently, I can and do donate lots of money to candidates that do represent my values, basically I buy influence because I can!
  
  Hang on cause there are lots of people in this State just like me who do the same and we will be heard!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It matters not how many sources anyone provides to those who choose to ignore them. You obviously did not read my previous posts as I stated no one news source is reliable.
  
  Spend your money on destroying Obama if you think it will help. I bet you spent some putting your home boy dumbya in too. I hope you weren't too disappointed in his two terms. He is a true representative of your state, no doubt.
  
  Didn't he say the oil would pay for the war? I suppose you were one of those getting paid, huh? Do you feel any sympathy for those who died for nothing because of the buffoon. But I did not want him to fail because so many thousands of people, Americans, British, Iraqis, and others gave their lives for that STUPID war. But as always, money means more to some than the lives of innocent people.
  
  You can't buy righteousness, even the religious nuts know this! You also can't buy a decent college football team, but you found this out last year, didn't you!LOL
  
  I care not whether you or the troll believes my forum posts are true. If you knew me you would know I have no need for fabricating any statement I make on these threads. Keep watching Faux News, you are the type of viewer they love to manipulate, Buck! A Texan is the perfect candidate! HA!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Typical liberal response! No proof but plenty of self righteous indignation, and you improve your case by throwing football into the mix Damn Randy, thought you were better than that.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Democrats and especially Barack Obama do not represent me, I do not want his Presidency to succeed because if it does then my Country will suffer."
  
  But that's not for you to decide!
  We already had the election, Obama won. End of story.
  
  Since when does any one person or any one party get to have every single president go in your favor?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course its for me to decide, he wasn't elected King! I can spend as much of my money to thwart his plans as I want, I don't have to sit and do nothing because he was elected, America has not been "fundamentally changed" just yet!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently, you have the same attitude Soros and Murdoch has about our country, Buck. Money determines right and wrong. Not the welfare of the citizens.
  
  Not a fair market, not a good educational system, not health care for everyone, but pure raw capitalism with no rules to prevent the rich from controlling the rest of the population.
  
  You claim you do not want a king, but many kings are okay as long as you are one of them. Yeah, I want you to make my decisions for me, Buck. Wee doggies! Another "decider!"
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Its apparent to me that you do not like the electoral system that the U.S. has, it seems you want to change it to a system where a leader is coronated instead of elected.
  
  The neat thing about our system is we are able to correct our mistakes every 2/4/6 years. For someone who claims to have an open mind and cognizant of all the latest news you seem to be missing the biggest news of all.
  
  Obama is about as popular as a skunk at a picnic, and the polls show it, I mean legitimate polls with a history of being accurate not the comics of the Puffington post or Newsweek!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Which polls do you prefer? Coming from someone who didn't vote the last presidential election, this admonishment about the electoral process seems rather weak.
  
  So it's better not to vote and instead spend money trying to influence others to vote against whomever you do not like. Just like the forefathers drew it up, huh?
  
  I would rather see more oversight on whichever political party is in power. I would like to see those who use money to corrupt the process tried for influencing congress or whoever is involved in the corruption.
  
  I would like to see the Bush administration tried for war crimes because of the needless death of perhaps hundreds of thousand of Iraqis, thousands of Americans, and many from those who took our side. Not to mention those who profited from that corrupt war.
  
  Won't happen of course, they control their own destiny, not us. And so we are doomed to repeat this tragic event again as long as the right people make a "Buck."
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not wasting energy on defending my reason not to vote in the last Presidential election, I said why and thats all there is to it.
  
  Why would you be concerned about what our forefathers would have done? Our Founding fathers sent men to die for their treasonous acts against the crown, based on your logic you would see them hung as traitors to the King.
  
  Its comical to read an Obama supporter berate someone for donating to candidates of their choice, Obama out raised McCain 3 to 1 in donations, you really want to stick to the position that I am doing something wrong?
  
  I would rather see every bum in office in Washington ousted in the next election and see real citizens put in their place, I won't see it, so we all have to suck it up and know we don't always get what we want!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nowhere have I stated that I wish to have a king. Contributing to campaign funds are fine, as long as there is a limit to how much one person can give. I just see something wrong when one person can influence a political figure more than thousands of other people.
  
  I really don't care if you voted or not. It wouldn't have made the slightest of differences in the outcome of the election. Your money means more than your vote, which gets to my point about how money corrupts the system.
  
  You also make the point of Obama raising more money than McCain, except the difference is where the money came from. Lots of small donations from many people made up a large portion of Obama's contributions. In this case the system worked better than it usually does. Not perfect, but better.
  
  It's fine that you donate to your favored political party. But didn't you cast aspersions on Soros for doing the same? And the polls you mentioned previously?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't cast aspersions on Soro's for buying his candidate, I cast aspersions on the Candidate he bought.
  
  Obama was the largest receiver of campaign contributions from British Petroleum and Goldman-Sachs, so no Randy, not all the money came from the little guys.
  
  And by the way, in comparison to Soro's and many other Obama supporters I am most certainly one of the little guys, so whatever influence I "buy" will be small in the bigger scheme of things.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say all of the money came from little guys, just that a larger amount of money than usual came from them. Read my post again.
  
  I have no problem with any citizen giving support to their favorite candidates as long as it isn't enough to influence the candidate more than those who also contributed. Not realistic I know, but not impossible either.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, Goldman-Sachs and SEIU really don't count.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They're hoping we didn't notice.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Right, no matter how many times Gibbs said he didn't.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That would be the first sign that he did!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Murdoch ........ Australia's nastiest virus!
  Only knows how to appeal to the lower instincts, the lowest denominator of the human condition and makes all his money that way. He always has.
  
  We were glad to get rid of him. He would eat his children for a few bucks.
  
  The guy is another sick little puppy who cares only for money and power and will not stop until he controls the world, a bit like the 'brain" from "Pinky & the brain kids cartoon, he is a megalomaniac and a loser as a human being.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perfect for the republican party though! He has bought most of it and they love him.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, America! God Bless Her
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How dare you speak well of the United States!
  
  It does not need Gods blessing it needs the Obamagod!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As a conservative, er, I mean republican, I'm just too dang stupid to not to
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, publicans tupid!
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Fox News anchors pushed the idea of Obama's not having a birth certificate and being a Muslim. One of their "blonde short-skirted anchorettes expressed her opinion of Obama not being president because of the particular swearing in process"
  
  Do you have a link or the actual transcript of what was said so we can all look at it together?
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "They appear to consider any disagreement as a personal attack and those who have a different political view as enemies."
  
  You mean like some of the liberals on this forum?
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Rasman1posted 13 years ago
FOX NEWS SUCK
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
And that is the point in my opinion.
Divide and conquer.

It's a form of brainwashing. No kidding.
Just google Operation Mockingbird.

this is a good one; MOCKINGBIRD - The Subversion Of The Free Press By The CIA
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rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago
wow, I don't know who this new guy is,or if he's a troll, but I've never wanted a president in power not to have a successful presidency whether I agreed with everything or not. I think that smacks of arrogance, it's OUR country.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Trolls everywhere huh?
  
  Liberals wanted Reagan to fail, Bush 1 to fail, Bush 2 to fail!
  
  What do you not understand? That the Democrats in the House and Senate along with the Democrat President do not represent me?
  
  I did not want a tax bill that masquerades as health care reform to pass, I wanted that bill to fail!
  
  Try being more honest and you might actually feel better!
  
  Troll, watch out, there everywhere....
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the democrats voted to support Dumbya before they found out the facts were manipulated by your home boy. Or do you still think the Iraqis were responsible for 911? Still think Saddam had WMD's? Still think the "mission was accomplished" while Dumya strutted on board the aircraft carrier?
  
  Those mobile chemical lab drawings the administration touted as being all over Iraq never existed. You seem to think it was all a simple mistake. Thousands of dead men, women and children,mean nothing to you as is obvious. Otherwise you would feel remorse for helping put Dumbya in office, especiallly for a second term.
  
  Sarah Palin will do a great job for you!
  
  No need to answer, Buck. We showed them didn't we?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I voted for him the first time but not the second, you really aren't getting anywhere Randy!
  
  Keep being angry at Bush because he tricked the Democrats into voting to invade Iraq with phony evidence, evidence that Clinton/Gore/Pelosi/Reid all said existed before Bush was ever elected.
  
  I'm sure there are plenty of Iraqis who are happier than hell that we ousted the tyrant that lorded over them.
  
  Oh yeah, when did Obama extricate forces from Iraq/Afghanistan?
  
  What? There still there? But,but, he said he would pull them out!
  
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I do not plan to get anywhere with you or the troll, Buck! I suppose not voting for Dumbya the second time resolves you of any responsibility. The first murder doesn't count count, I suppose.
  
  Perhaps you may know some happy Iraqis, but I would think there are many who had members of their families killed who would disagree with you. What did the war solve that was worth the lives of so many people? Your answer will tell me a lot about you, Buck. You obviously were not too pleased by Dumbya since you didn't vote for him the second term. I don't think you voted for Kerry.
  
  Saddam did have WMDs at one time. But not when Dumbya said he did. He had nothing and we spent our treasure on murdering those he had already beaten down and then paying more money replacing the infrastructure. Talk about doubling down.
  
  Bush will be known for being the worst and dumbest president we have ever had and you were part of it. Feel proud? Torture, theft, blindfolds, leashes, dogs, rendition, yep! Yippe ki yay!
  
  And you expect Obama to clean up your mess? Of course not, you want him to fail and our economy and medical care to worsen. What a patriot! LOL
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  You get funnier every-time, my favorite part is where Iraq had WMD's when Democrats said they did but not when Bush said they did!
  
  No I didn't vote for Kerry!
  
  "What did the war solve that was worth the lives of so many people? Your answer will tell me a lot about you, Buck"
  
  Haven't you figured it out yet? I do not care what you think of me, I do not care what your version of a Patriot is!
  
  No I don't expect Obama to clean up any messes, that would require competence that he does not possess!
  
  I didn't vote in this last election because there were no choices, it was either the corrupt white guy or the corrupt black guy, let me guess, you actually made a choice between them.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I did make a choice, Buck! If you don't vote then don't bitch about what you get. But I do understand why you wouldn't vote after putting Dumbya in office.
  
  I'm not surprised you can't understand why there were no WMD's in Iraq when we invaded but were earlier on when the inspectors weren't there. You fell for the propaganda, there's no getting around that.
  
  But we will not agree on the present situation. Perhaps the economy will get even worse and more people will lose their jobs. Maybe the health care bill will be a failure and more people will be sick and die and you will be right. Whatever it takes to make you happy, eh?
  
  Later on Tex!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Randy, I'm gonna bitch loud and long until this lackey for George Soros is run out of Washington! Maybe he can move to Georgia and live with the other incompetent dolt that last ruined our economy.
  
  People die everyday, even people with health care, this was a tax bill and nothing more.
  
  The economy will worsen, and the debt will climb higher and higher, and since you're bound and determined to place blame on people who voted a certain way, I hope you accept your responsibility in tripling the debt!
  
  But you won't, its still Bush's fault, I am saddened by the discovery that you are a shill!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Unlike you Buck, I will take responsibility if Obama even comes close to being the corrupt moron you voted for. I suppose your lackey, Rupert Murdoch, is so much better.
  
  I will rail against any president who disgraces our country, but President Obama has a long way to go before even approaching the depth of stupidity Dumbyas administration has taken us.
  
  Yes, people die every day, some murdered by stupid decisions made by stupid people. Our standing in the world fell immensely during your state's favorite son's terms. But it has improved under Obama, despite your wishes to the contrary.
  
  It is a compliment to be called a shill by someone who put Dumbya in office. Thank you! There can be no higher praise!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Rupert Murdoch is so much better, much better than a man who made millions off the falling value of the Dollar, you know, the United States currency!
  
  Better start railing on Obama for bowing before a King, Presidents do not bow, thats a disgrace to our Country.
  
  I know people have a hard time understanding this but its not too difficult, Bush is from Connecticut not Texas. Where is Jimah Cahter from?
  
  Our standing in the World has improved with citizens around the World but not their leaders who look at Obama as the joke he is! And like everything else I as an American don't care what a Frenchman or Canadian thinks, I have a bit more National pride than that.
  
  And if you take pride in shilling for a Party that produced the likes of Ted (I killed Mary Jo Kopechne) Kennedy be my guest.
  
  Trust me, there is much higher praise and you should aspire to it!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have proof Ted killed Mary Jo? Or are you just uttering the party line? Bush kills perhaps millions and you are okay with that though. Put up a link to the murder proof, will ya?
  
  As a person trained in the martial arts I learned to bow as a sign of respect. In Japan it is the same as a hand shake. I do not expect you to understand that, Tex. It's funny how Texans claimed Dumbya before they actually realized what a moron he was. And then they wouldn't even vote for him again. Some of them anyway.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lets see, by Teds own admission he was drunk and drove his car off a bridge leaving a woman trapped inside the car who drowned and failed to report the accident for 8 hours.
  
  Being a trained Police Officer with over 1000 hours of traffic collision investigation and more than 5000 hours of in service training involving criminal laws, I would say that is definite proof that he killed/Murdered a woman!
  
  But, he was a darling Kennedy and got away with it.
  
  They weren't in Japan were they? Obama is not trained in the Martial Arts is he? He was in Saudi Arabia, where a bow is a sign of subservience, and don't forget Obammy claimed he didn't bow! But I'll go ahead and believe my eyes and not what he says.
  
  Whether Texans claimed him or not is irrelevant to where he is from, didn't you know that?
  
  Talk about the party line, Bush has never killed anyone, just because you have been trained to respond with nonsensical rhetoric does not make that accusation true.
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  alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe in your bit of the woods it may be proof - but nowhere else I think !
  
  what planet are you from again ??
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  LegendaryHeroposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's all technicalities.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think in anybodies neck of the woods it would be prosecuted as a vehicular Homicide, that would be any neck of the woods where reasonable people live.
  
  I live on the planet where reality dictates that George W Bush has never killed anybody, where do you live?
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  Friendlywordposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Talk about the party line, Bush has never killed anyone, just because you have been trained to respond with nonsensical rhetoric does not make that accusation true."
  
  Like your accusation that Ted Kennedy committed Murder? At best it was manslaughter.
  
  You brag about being an experienced Police Officer. Add up these facts.
  
  1. Bush claimed Saddam Hussein try to killed his Father.
  2. Bush began LYING about Saddam Hussein having WMDs
  3. Bush took troops out of the country that attacked us to attack Iraq. Suddam Hussein just happen to be the leader of that country.
  4. Bush ignored the real threat of Iran.
  5. Bush ignored the real threat of North Korea.
  6. Bush sent our soldiers to die in his war of revenge and profit.
  7. Thousands of innocent Iragi people were killed for Bushes war of revenge and profit.
  
  LOOK AT THE FACTS AND TELL ME IF THIS IS NOT PRE-MEDITATED COLD BLOODED MURDER.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't bragging I was stating fact there is a difference.
  
  "Like your accusation that Ted Kennedy committed Murder? At best it was manslaughter."
  
  That's why I like you friendly,your keen attention to detail is amazing!
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your list was not one of "facts" but of partisan hyperbole and conjecture.
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Buck:
  
  You have some splainin to do!
  
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Laura did though. She hit someone with her car and he died. Dems just have too much class to keep bringing it up for 50 years.
  PO huh? That explains A LOT.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Laura did though. She hit someone with her car and he died. Dems just have too much class to keep bringing it up for 50 years."
  
  And yet here you are bringing it up!
  
  Since we all just found out about it last week I guess only time will tell!
  
  Not a PO an SD.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've known about it for quite some years, as have many others.....just don't think it's something she, or the dead man's family need to keep re-living and re-living and re-living just to score some political points.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So why did you use it to score some points?
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Political points or points in a forum discussion?
  
  AFAIK, no one's really gone after Laura Bush, who seems like a perfectly agreeable person.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Either one?
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not scoring anything..just pointing out the vindictive nature of Republicans....
  In case you haven't already noticed...in case you've been under a rock or something.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pot. Kettle. Black.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How are Democrats vindictive?
  
  When Reagan died, did any of them bring up the myriad of evil things that man did?
  
  No, they let his memory rest in peace....
  
  Guess none of you have any care for Kennedys' wife and kids...or the dead womans' family?
  How do you think it feels hearing it for 50 friggin years?
  
  You have the compassion of a bag of dirt.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Uh, it hasn't been 50 friggin years, and I'll bet her family would love to have seen justice done!
  
  But because of the corrupt, justice was denied!
  
  That is until this past year.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "As far as Teddy is concerned he never felt a moments remorse for his actions"
  
  Links please...prove that statement.
  
  And speaking of corrupt, and justice denied....I think we won't have to wait 50 years....
  Blair is going down...Bush, Cheney and co. can't be far behind.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't forget Howard in Australia. ... we haven't! Another of the Bushes "Group of the willing" to go into Iraq against the wishes of his country.
  Bush, Blair Howard and others such as Cheney and that other moose faced lunatic will someday answer for their war crimes.
  
  Imagine if someone wanted to overthrow Bush, how would you feel if the first you knew of it was when your kids were dying in your street from carpet bombs that took out New York and reduced Washington to rubble.
  
  When the USA invaded Iraq, thousands of bombs reined down on who?
  
  Not the leader they wanted to depose, but the innocent and beautiful people of an ancient city that can never be replaced.
  One of the most important seats of mankind's early achievements and history, one of the worlds most beautiful and historic cities blown to pieces along with it's inhabitants.
  
  What happened under Bush, Blair and Howard was illegal, immoral, unjust, unnecessary and unbelievably inhumane.
  
  I will not forgive them, nor will many other people in my country at least.
  
  If I were Iraqi I would hate their collective guts, as many do in Arab nations, and will continue to until our politics change.
  
  Growing Muslim extremism is caused by suppressing these people and terrorism will be with us until we get those political changes in the middle east.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  DITTO.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The only thing you pointed out was that Laura Bush killed someone!
  
  As far as Teddy is concerned he never felt a moments remorse for his actions and continued to drink and act like the Frat boy he was!
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think this thread has vindicated this sentiment.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You probably do, how shocking.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Only those who watch Faux News were unaware of Laura's "accident." As has been said, not many liberals accuse her of murder that I'm aware of. But with your PO training you really don't need any facts to decide if she murdered one of her friends or not. Innocent, right?
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you implying Laura Bush actually murdered someone in her accident? Murder in the sense of the reality of the word, with intent? Are you? Please clarify, I find this so disturbing. "Innocent, right?" What are you implying?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Randy is implying that its ok if a Kennedy murders someone but not if a Bush does!
  
  Kind of like his when the democrats said Iraq had wmd's, they did! But when Bush said it he was lying!
  
  There are two different sets of values libs use when it suits there purpose.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Kind of like how Bush is a horrible murderer for Iraq but Clinton wasn't for Serbia.
  
  Serbia? Serbia? What's that?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's why you put the word accident in quotes, right?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because I do not know the complete circumstances the quotations show a degree of the unknown. I do not have your psychic abilities, remember? I choose not to claim something I am not sure of.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You were sure enough to cast aspersion. That's called guilty until proven innocent.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, read my words. I would in no way cast aspersions like you and Buck. I'm not a republican! Where do you get your legal knowledge?
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, you don't think Teddy was responsible for Mary Jo's death??
  
  His initial statement:
  On July 18, 1969, at approximately 11:15 p.m. in Chappaquiddick, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, I was driving my car on Main Street on my way to get the ferry back to Edgartown. I was unfamiliar with the road and turned right onto Dike Road, instead of bearing hard left on Main Street. After proceeding for approximately one-half mile on Dike Road I descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge. The car went off the side of the bridge. There was one passenger with me, one Miss Mary [Kopechne],[16] a former secretary of my brother Sen. Robert Kennedy. The car turned over and sank into the water and landed with the roof resting on the bottom. I attempted to open the door and the window of the car but have no recollection of how I got out of the car. I came to the surface and then repeatedly dove down to the car in an attempt to see if the passenger was still in the car. I was unsuccessful in the attempt. I was exhausted and in a state of shock. I recall walking back to where my friends were eating. There was a car parked in front of the cottage and I climbed into the backseat. I then asked for someone to bring me back to Edgartown. I remember walking around for a period and then going back to my hotel room. When I fully realized what had happened this morning, I immediately contacted the police.
  
  How much more proof do you need? And he waited 10 hours before reporting it!
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "As a person trained in the martial arts I learned to bow as a sign of respect. In Japan it is the same as a hand shake."
  
  You also learned context I suppose, right?
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  " Perhaps the economy will get even worse and more people will lose their jobs. Maybe the health care bill will be a failure and more people will be sick and die and you will be right. Whatever it takes to make you happy, eh?"
  
  Like when certain democrats were declaring the Iraq War "lost" in 2005 and certain liberals gleefully gloating over same? Did that attitude bother you then?
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Bush will be known for being the worst and dumbest president we have ever had and you were part of it. "
  
  Only by angry liberals whose volume will fade down to their level of insignificance in short order.
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  alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No - by pretty much the whole world outside your wood,
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Which wood is that?
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habeeposted 13 years ago
I think CNN had way more coverage about the birth certificate than FOX did. In fact, I've seen O'Reilly poo-poo his guests who wanted to discuss it. I don't know if Beck has talked about it or not - I don't watch him or Hannity.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So when did Johnny allow you to turn the channel to CNN? Oh yeah, I forgot it was when he attended the Tea Party Rally! He would have a heart attack if he knew you watched CNN! LOL
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Johnny isn't home during the day. He has a job - remember?? After he goes to bed at night, I can watch the late version of Rachel Maddow, too!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good for you! You are too smart to be a republican!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And not dumb enough to be a Democrat.
  
  Disclaimer
  Buck Steiner in no way believes habee is the least bit dumb
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nah, I'm not "smart" enough to be a democrat - you know, like Hank "Guam" Johnson and my ex-husband!
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now don't go getting on Hank's back Habee, he might topple over!
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good one, Ernesto!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't vote for Hank. But did you vote for Sarah Palin? You betcha! LOL
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, actually, I voted for McCain. And would he be doing a better job than Obama? You betcha! And so would Hillary!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So you thought you could elect McCain without getting Palin in the bargain? And if McCain died in office, which was not unlikely, you would have chosen for Palin to succeed him. I'm not a really big fan of Biden, but damn!
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  To me, Biden is just as scary as Palin - maybe worse because he should know better. He's a likeable guy, but his lies, plagiarism, and confusion are frightening!
  
  My dream ticket would have been a McCain-Hillary partnership.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It would most certainly would be the other way 'round - Hilary/McCain. She's the only one who wears any pants in Washington.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You were all for Palin when she was chosen to be McCain's running mate. We argued about her then. But you changed your mind somewhat when you had a closer look at her. If you aren't concerned about her having nuclear warheads under her control then I don't know what to say except "I can see the mushroom clouds from my house!"
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, Randy, that's right. I was for Palin before I learned more about her. Unlike a lot of liberals, when I make a mistake I admit it. BO and Biden scare me about nuclear war with Iran because I don't think Iran has any fear or respect for our current leaders.
  
  I think McCain would have done a lot to bring about bipartisanship, so the country would not be divided now, and Congress wouldn't be "broken."
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you fear Iran more now? Our reputation in the world has increased much since Dumbya left and Obama was elected. I know, most conservatives I've talked to say they care how the world views our country.
  
  Remember the old "freedom fries" and French wine boycott Bill-O tried to push? France was smart and we were stupid, or greedy, or perhaps both.
  
  Did Bush do a great job attacking a little "piss ant" country with no aircraft, tanks, ships, nuclear weapons, WMD's? I know he declared "mission accomplished." You do know that was untrue even if you did support him.
  
  Yes, I would like to bring the troops home and I'm sure the president does too. There is so much crap to try to clean up because of the Bush terms and you guys want the guy you hate to do it for you.
  
  I knew whoever was elected would inherit a mess. I suppose McCain and Sarah would have everything running smooth now. Nope, they would still be pushing the same old Dumbya policies and making things worse than ever.
  
  Perhaps you guys can put your warmongers back in office again and we can continue to bully the little countries again.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  . . . sigh . . .
  
  Do you really believe that ANYBODY wants war? The only people who do are those who profit from it and they're not the ones fighting it. So let's just drop the "republicans are war mongers" stuff. Ok?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, Bush wanted a war. It was well known before he was elected he wanted to be a "war president" so he could increase the powers of the president. You should know this. And no, I will not stop calling you guys war mongers unless you stop putting them in office. It doesn't work that way. You put a criminal into office and expect others to just let it slide?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'd say as much
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What criminal would you be referring to? Clinton? Must be, he's the only convicted criminal I am aware of.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah Buck, Clinton lied about sharing a cigar with a young lady while Dumbya killed thousands of people. Texas justice I suppose. And before you say Bush didn't kill anyone personally, ask Charles Manson why he's still in prison. I still have hopes of Dumbya being prosecuted, but too many people don't care what he did. Right?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Manson actually killed someone, not in the murders that are famous but a murder nonetheless. And no, the difference is Bush had active support in congress, so if he is charged then they would all be charged!
  
  Dream on!
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_%22Shorty%22_Shea
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Only if congress was privy to the same information as Dumbya. Remember the infamous message to Blair from Bush about the lack of proof of WMDs? Would it make any difference to you if Dumbya'a boys covered it up? I doubt it seriously!
  
  Manson is not in prison for a previous murder, is he? He is in prison for the Tate murders in which he did not personally participate. Good try though!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He is in prison for both Tate and Lobianca and the murder of Shorty Shea a murder he committed!
  
  Its not a nice try its a fact!
  
  Sorry Randy, farm lawyers shouldn't attempt to discuss facts with someone who knows, Manson actively participated in a criminal conspiracy to commit murder, thereby leaving himself open to the same punishments given to the actual killers!
  
  That's a free lesson!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No Buck, not even a nice try! Shea was killed under orders by Manson, the same as the other murders. According to your logic concerning Dubyas involvement in Iraq, he didn't kill anyone.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And according to your logic Clinton never even heard of Serbia.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you're so interested in making the whole context of the Bush Admin. about the war, then you really need to address those who are being killed under Obama, is it a war death toll competition?
  
  And are you happy happy that average working Americans have managed to quash the killing in this country of thousands? As you can somehow spin it and claim it was Obama's influence that saved Manhattan, or Timbucktoo?
  
  Do you have an inside track to Iran and Iraq and Dubai and Pakistan and Afghanistan, etc........? If not, what makes you qualified to make a judgment, beyond political spin, on Anything that has occurred since 911? Are you glad to be alive?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose it's better if we kill hundreds of thousands. And prove Bush prevented anything. Unless you didn't notice, Bush was in control when 911 happened. Oh yeah, that was Clinton's fault. LOLOL!
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Pathetic. Really pathetic. You are blaming 911 on Bush? LOL, feebly LOL, so sad, makes me as an American sad and afraid and wishing I could just move to New Zealand, but I love my home, my country. And you think Bush prevented nothing subsequent to 911 or prior, and Obama is responsible for preventing any further 'terrorist' attacks since he came to the high office of the land? Even though he doesn't much like the term of 'terrorist'?
  
  Huh. That is remarkable. Best I recall, no government official was responsible for preventing any attempt to bomb us lately, instead it has been Americans, too bad that Janet gal who has such an intellect can't point to some policy of Homeland Security that stopped an attack on us......just too damn bad.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are the one casting blame. I merely remarked who was in office when 911 occurred. At the time the attack happened Dumbya had yet to attend any of the special meetings concerning terrorist activities. Only nine months had elapsed and he wouldn't have understood anyway.
  
  Remember when Rice was forced to read an email she had received months before the attack? It said "Bin Laudin determined to attack the U.S., possibly using commercial aircraft." Did you even watch the hearings? Oh that's right, you don't need to actually know the facts before speaking for "most of the people in our country."
  
  To be fair though, I don't really blame Dumbya, he was just a mouthpiece.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Casting blame? Me? On Who? You very clearly cast aspersions on Bush and 911, and you do so now again. Shall we even wonder what the yahoos in positions of power receive now in terms of email? Shall we wonder? And be afraid, very afraid?
  
  If you have some inside track on the "facts" of current terrorist emails and voice mails and movements, do be sure you share it with us, and for sure with our efficient Janet Nap. Apparently, they did not see the terrorist youtube video the day before the Manhattan bomb as significant.
  
  As for Dumbya, "Miss Me Yet?" Yeah, I do now.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  When you said a while back that Iraq had no aircraft, I researched it because I was curious. Remember? That was in the same conversation in which you told Johnny GA farmers no longer got any subsidies for peanuts. I researched that, too, and you're wrong on both counts.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  During Desert Storm Iraq flew their planes to Iran and left them there. The few aircraft still remaining in Iraq were essentially useless against our weapons. They could not leave the ground without being shot down immediately. They were no threat to us and Dumbya knew this.
  
  I do not receive peanut subsidies. We did at one time but not now. There is no allotment for peanuts anymore. You can grow as many as you like. Most peanuts are contracted at a set price. If you do not make your contracted tonnage you are penalized. There may be a support price but it seldom comes into play because the contract price is always higher.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You said Iraq had NO aircraft. GA peanut farmers receive subsidies for storing peanuts.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Excess peanut poundage is stored by the buyers. I know of no farmer with peanut storage facilities. No one is guaranteed a profit above the contract price.
  
  Competent fighter aircraft was what I referenced. Perhaps you have reports of an episode where Iraq used one of their aircraft to down an American fighter jet. If so, it was a very isolated incident indeed. Irregardless, Iraq was no threat to us at all despite the Whitehouse rhetoric to the contrary.
  
  Are you happy about the results of Dumbya's war? Can you at least admit it was a terrible blunder by your choice for president? What did this war accomplish worth the hundreds of thousands of lives lost and the vast amount of money it cost our treasury. Was it worth the torture, rendition, and other violations we committed which brought shame on our country? Or is this just another silly accident?
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, but I'll bet you can see Sparks!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "My dream ticket would have been a McCain-Hillary partnership."
  
  Ay yi yi!
  
  Somebody would have to be posted by the White House Silverware 24/7 with those two around!
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know Habee I think if McCain were in the White House we would have boots on the ground in Iran right now. He was champing at the bit to war with Iran even before the election.
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Cagsilposted 13 years ago
I am impressed this pathetic topic made it this far. WOW!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for participating
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you're point being?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That you participated?
  
  Is that good enough or do you need a more detailed answer?
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
Try this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rqdtZle … playnext=1
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  JON EWALLposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  96Randy Godwinposted
  
  Most of what was in the video looked like 2004 dated material, can you verify.
  What the video showed were supposedly news commentators who were past fox employees.
  We have been viewers of Fox since the 2000 elections, never once have I seen any of those appearing in the video.
  There is a lot more of Fox other than O'reilly, Hannity, Heraldo and Beck to watch for ''fair and balanced'' reporting. Whoever is the moderator Fox in most cases has another guest on with another view. Many times on radical points, guest refuse to accept and offer to appear on the show.
  Check out the source of who is producing these radical videos.
  If you don't watch Fox regularly, check out Cavuto ( weekly ) and on Sat.the morning business shows (interesting discussions on the economy and Washington legislation )
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's the stuff!
  
  American shows like this never report news. If you want to know what's really going on tune in to the joint ABC/BBC/Deutsche welle/PBR radio news, and hear both sides of each argument with intelligent questions and answers from the expert bi-partisan panels from each source.
  Then go hear it from Fox CNN or any of these "news" shows.
  Half the time it has been distorted just to be more sensational, or to make political mileage out of.
  
  Just like the Video does. Just lies to make money with, feeding an uninformed public that prefer it that way!
  Ignorance by choice!
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My point exactly, Earnest! I didn't post the link for informational purposes but to show there are many links which make some believe what they want.
  
  One must dig really deep to get correct information these days. As stated previously, I depend on no one source for political info. But this is just me, others are satisfied only with those which agree with their viewpoint, right or wrong.
  
  I am sorry there was so much death, destruction, theft, and greed, because many of us trusted our government not to lie in order to get access to the oil in Iraq. Others see it as a minor mistake and wish to distance themselves from this tragedy.
  
  They are still anxious to put the same party back in that allowed this fiasco to happen. They learned nothing by their bad choices and feel no responsibility for their part in it.
  
  What will their excuse be next time?
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Randy I agree with you that it is incumbent upon the individual to listen to many different sources and determine on their own whether a story has merit or not.
  
  The scary scenario from this video is that we may never see what is the story and how it affects us and our families because of some companies bottom line. And when you have government agencies covering up their own blunders and allowing the practice to continue the lawyers take over and all truth and justice ends.
  
  With a reported 3 billion dollar investment for the purchase of Fox, Rupert Murdock has a lot to lose if his "news" organizations begin to show cracks in their reporting practices. I really wonder how many lawyers work for Fox and what other "editing" is taking place on any real news stories by the network.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "many of us trusted our government not to lie in order to get access to the oil in Iraq. "
  
  And it didn't.
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest it is like any other situation in the American culture. We pay ministers to tell us what we want to hear in church, we elect paid off politicians to represent us and our interests and why shouldn't we pay to listen to the lies we wish to believe with news reporting.
  
  It almost sounds like a totalitarian mindset doesn't it?
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rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago
this is the story for those who don't know about it. this happened years ago. the news still hasn't reported to the public about what's put in our milk. we find out from other sources.
even walmart now has milk without rBGH/rBST.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1pKlnhvg0
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  rhamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What I have to ask is what is the governments position on it? Is the FDA afraid some heads will roll or what? Cover ups are hard to prove and the lawyers know it.
  
  Look at Watergate and the Iran Contra deal.
  
  "When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs."
  Maxwell Anderson
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rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago
good question. like I mentioned earlier, it's deep pockets of these multi-national corporations that own us. Monsanto has powerful lobbyists and influence in our federal govt. I don't have time this morning to get into it, but we know money runs the world. if our food and drink has dangerous additives doesn't seem to matter to the FDA. google dangerous food additives. I also wrote a hub about it. people need to be better informed. that's what news should be doing.
http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/rbgh2.cfm
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livelongerposted 13 years ago
It's probably not very constructive to indulge untrue delusions. The only ones who seem to believe Obama has supernatural powers are conservatives.
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Madame Xposted 13 years ago
If we thought that we would have voted for him
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or asked for a pony
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Madame, you mean pant SUITS!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No I don't.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Randy, I haven't heard you speak out about Iraq since Obama was elected. You've said plenty about Bush's Iraq, but now that it's Obama's, you've been pretty quiet. Do you think it's okay that we still have about 100,000 troops there?
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
Now you got me going...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_mPrhwpZ-8
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Got me goin too. I watched 3 of them! Thanks UW.
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Madame Xposted 13 years ago
Kennedy was a murderer. He deserves what he gets.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Laura Bush is a murderer too...what does she deserve?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No she wasn't. She didn't run away, drunk, from a dying woman in a car.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some said she was drunk, but unlike you and Buck, I had rather not make a judgment without knowing anything for sure. You don't like it when others accuse your side of the same thing, do you? Surprise, surprise!
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ?????? you say this after your comments about Kennedy? A known and accepted boondoggle of a situation? How did Laura Bush ever enter into this conversation. How about that guy that supposedly committed suicide during Clinton's Admin. ? You all want to put your sharp and analytical minds to work, work on that one.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Known and accepted? Are you speaking for everyone or just yourself?
  
  Can't we just speculate and make things up like you guys? Or can republicans only do that?
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ....uh, hello, you guys are saying Laura Bush committed murder? Get real. And most of the country thought, and thinks, Kennedy was the player responsible. Why don't you hire a pollster for just that question? To even speak of Laura Bush in the same breath as Kennedy is insulting.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now you are speaking for most of the country? Did we elect you too? I didn't accuse Laura of being a murderer. I would need proof for that. You apparently need no proof, just assumptions and speculation. You are not speaking for me or anyone else I am aware of. Why not just speak for yourself.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, sorry, did you set the record straight here already in regard to Laura Bush? Or did you let the equating of Laura with Kennedy continue and allow it to feed your own rhetoric? I must be mistaken, as I was fairly sure you did. And as for speaking for the country, I believe I suggested you foot the bill for a poll regarding Kennedy's part in what was surely murder or negligent homicide, not speaking for the country, just suggesting that you let the country speak......
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. Feel free to quote where I said she was a murderer like Buck and X did about Kennedy. You agree with their stance though, right? LOL!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Kennedy was a murderer. The ONLY reason he wasn't convicted was because of his political connections and money.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Still don't require proof before accusing someone of murder, huh? Pathetic!
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Accurate -- Madame X that is.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Rhetoric is not fact, and I did not say you explicitly said Laura Bush committed murder, instead you have used the context to pit liberal against conservative, denigrate conservatives, rather than stand up and say that the comparison between Kennedy and Laura Bush is bogus and should not be a topic of discussion for comparison.
  
  That is what I would expect from a liberal with integrity, a liberal that I would actually share some common ground with on some of the issues facing this country -- and if I missed you doing exactly that, then forgive me, as I have not read all the posts, perhaps you've already said the trashing of Laura Bush here is bogus - if so, my most sincere of apologies.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So you have proof of Kennedy being a murderer? Did you tell the police you knew he murdered the girl? Of course you didn't. I doubt seriously you know anything about the incident other that what you heard from people such as those who have stated the same thing on this thread.
  
  So okay, tell the rest of us how you know for sure Ted murdered the girl. And don't leave out any of the juicy details. I'll just get a beer and some popcorn because I've always wanted to talk to someone who was there!
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you know different? Don't you get that that is the point? The whole thing was shushed, not adequately investigated, or just shut down? Is he your beloved Grandaddy? And Laura Bush, your despised old Aunt? Can't you be 'fair and balanced', and full of 'hope and change', and reach out across that aisle and say yes something was really fishy about Kennedy's involvement? Guess not! Nor will you defend First Lady Laura Bush.
  
  Enjoy your beer and popcorn, while it is still a 'Socialistically" accepted and affordable drink and snack.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have already defended Laura Bush. Accidents happen. I'll say it ONE MORE TIME for the hard of comprehending. I do not think Laura Bush murdered anyone. I do not want to appear as you do. Still waiting for your personal knowledge of Kennedy's murder of the young lady.
  
  If you have none, I can only assume you take this stance because you already disliked the Kennedys anyway. Am I wrong? You are just letting a personal political dislike of someone affect your ability to make a proper judgment.
  
  You just know, don't you! So sad!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You were given proof of the Homicide that he committed, you have chosen to ignore it because a Kennedy was involved or worse simply because a Democrat was involved.
  
  You are so magnanimous to give Laura Bush a pass on murder I guess because SHE DIDN'T COMMIT A MURDER!
  
  But "Dead Ted" did!
  
  I'm done.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You defended Laura Bush?
  
  Was this it?
  
  Randy Godwin wrote:
  
  Some said she was drunk, but unlike you and Buck, I had rather not make a judgment without knowing anything for sure. You don't like it when others accuse your side of the same thing, do you? Surprise, surprise!
  
  That's your defense? If so, it's lame, and full of innuendo, and you leave it open to your liberal cohorts to continue to equate Laura with Kennedy -- you should be ashamed, and you are beyond sad, as you clearly have the intellect, and stupid as I am, I have thought you clearly have the compassion for truth, to have just nipped the comparison from the get go. You did not.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What does " I had rather not make a judgment without knowing anything for sure" mean to you? You stated unequivocally Kennedy murdered the girl. No perhaps, no maybes, just " Kennedy is a murderer." You have absolutely no personal knowledge of the accident do you? You don't need proof, do you?
  
  What a hypocrite you are if you cannot see the difference.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please do reference clearly where I said 'unequivocally that Kennedy murdered the girl'.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry JWC. I got your posts confused with Bucks. but you did agree with X when she stated it.
  
  She wrote "Kennedy was a murderer. The ONLY reason he wasn't convicted was because of his political connections and money."
  
  You wrote "Accurate -- Madame X that is."
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So you were confused, nice of you to admit it. As for my post in regard to Madame X being accurate, in review of the prior posts, her contributions had been more accurate than you for certain, and if you wish to reference my post of saying Madame X was "accurate" to her statement of Kennedy being guilty of murder, feel free. You have clearly been grasping for basis for your comments. And if you have to hark back to that without quoting the whole of her post or the ones of hers prior, then I am gratified in your grasping.
  
  Let us all hope Obama doesn't decide to shoot an Elk in the wild on a hunting trip, God forbid he wants to shoot dove or quail, the bullets will really fly -- as a change of liberal 'rich' preference for running up the national debt eating Waygu steak rather than what you hunt --- and in the process accidentally shoot one of his many CZARs.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can't picture Obama hunting with his voting history on firearms.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Kind of the point, Heaven help us and the rest of the hunters in his party if Obama did decide to hunt...among other things he is not experienced with but might take on like a veteran. Maybe he would be like me and hide underneath a jacked up Dodge Ramcharger to stay clear of the bullets, and pray and pray till it was over.....and for sure never pull a trigger
  
  Doubtful though, perhaps we'll all hear about another Hawaiian Luau this next year with Waygu beef, rather than American breed beef. Kind of irks me, the Waygu thing, would have irritated me if it were Bush or Bumnalla or Brumhilda as well.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I stated I did not think Cheney was guilty of anything other than carelessness. I'm sorry the context was too complicated for you to understand. Apparently Dumbya WAS one of the brightest political Texas minds.
  
  I don't know what motive you think Kennedy had for murdering Mary Jo, or for not trying to help her so he would not have to go through the whole ordeal. But you can only speculate about the circumstances surrounding the incident unless you were there. And you passed on giving your personal knowledge about it. But this doesn't keep you from making a judgment without having the facts.
  
  No one has stated that Kennedy didn't try to rescue the lady other than you and your fellow conservatives. And you do not know. This doesn't keep you from giving your opinion as what most people in our country think. But you suggest I be the one who takes a poll about it. Your statement, back it up if you can.
  
  Have you ever saved a drowning person, especially at night from a swamped vehicle? I suppose you think he should have drowned trying, like you would have done, right? How many people have you saved from drowning? I bet it is the same amount as X has.
  
  Believe what you like, or what your party tells you to believe. Better yet, ask Faux News. They'll tell you what you need to think. And you will, no doubt! Doing your own thinking probably makes you tired anyway.
  
  And you don't use "bullets" to shoot dove or quail, no matter what you are told to believe.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing too complicated, the implications of your posts are clear, even when you choose to attempt to make them somewhat middling politically. Your continued attempt to couch your opinion in moderate terms -- none of it flies. And, maybe you should wake up to the fact that the average American, which includes myself, believes nothing a Party tells them to believe. At least not in my neighborhood. Perhaps liberals like to be told what to think, saves some battery power.
  
  ?? No bullets to shoot dove or quail? Call the shot what you want, they fly out of a gun as men are shooting at flocks of poor birds, and it's sickening and scary, and it's bullets so far as I'm concerned, and I'll crawl back under a vehicle or whatever when or if I ever have to endure flying "shot" (like that? better) in my life again.
  
  And Snakey, I never said Kennedy did or didn't try to do a damn thing. Give it up, you disrespect yourself.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  JWest, why do you think hunting is sickening?? Do you raise those cattle for pets, or do you eat the meat and sell them for meat? Hunting is the most humane method of procuring meat for humans.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't think hunting is sickening, never said that, just that I was a coward and scared when bird shot was flying, big difference.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, when you said "sickening," I thought you were referring to the killing. My bad!
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No problem, I said 'sickening and scary', you focused on the sickening, interesting Randy.
  
  And I would add that if you need to eat a bird, you ought to be required to aim at that bird.......that might even be an old Chinese proverb.
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Randy, you could use bullets if you're a really, really good shot! Of course, there might not be much meat left to eat.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some said Kennedy was drunk, mainly Kennedy himself! WTF???
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The officers who responded to the accident said no alcohol was involved. It's on Snopes and other sites.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  On Saturday morning, the cleanup began.
  
  Kennedy began making phone calls to lawyers. Two fishermen, meanwhile, had spotted the car in the pond.
  
  By the time the senator made it to the police station, about 10 a.m., Kopechne's body had already been recovered.
  
  From the Boston Globe:
  
  http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic … aquiddick/
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was talking about the Laura Bush accident - not Kennedy's!
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have now proven yourself in need of professional help, and unworthy of anyone, liberal, conservative, socialist, independent, anyone -- ever -- responding to one foul word or foul thought you utter.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually that happened quite a while back, I just can't seem to help myself.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't tell me I've misquoted the lune of love mychris? Sorry, if I did, and Buck, you'll just have to 'splain' if so.
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  lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  madame x said:
  
  "Kennedy was a murderer. He deserves what he gets."
  
  I am pointing out that Laura Bush is a murderer too...she killed someone, isn't that the correct term?
  Because Kennedy's incident was an accident too...he didn't set out to deliberately kill someone....
  Same as Laura Bush.
  Yet you vindictive Righty's have hounded Kennedy for 50 years.
  Nobody is hounding Laura Bush...unless you'd like us to?
  
  Democrats wouldn't do that anyway...Reagan was given a respectful death, and even had a statue unveiled of him By President Obama!!!!!
  
  You all, on the other hand, continue to hound a dead man with no regards for his family or hers.
  
  I'm glad you don't want anything to do with me, because the feeling is mutual! DITTO TIMES 100!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dang it Buck . . . I deleted that!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So did I, that was baaaaaaaaaad
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, ditto, a gazillion times to you! And you'd do well to get up to snuff on what constitutes murder, generally it is accomplished with intent. bye now lovey, hope you expand your horizons, a dictionary would be a grand first start!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I pity anyone who has you sitting on a jury deciding their fate. You "don't need no stinking evidence." Psychic, huh?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you jumping to the conclusion that I would be compassionless if on a jury? An innocent man does not need to pay his victim's family millions over an "accident".
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Think about it Mrs. psychic. If a wealthy and important person, such as Ted Kennedy, wanted to kill someone would he have done the deed himself? If he was half as sneaky and low as you contend he would have had someone else do the job for him while he was miles away.
  
  I cannot envision a scenario where he would plan to arrange the accident with him being involved like it happened. Nor would he have the circumstances turn out like they did. Even O.J. had a better plan. Yes, he was probably drinking and that may have contributed to the accident, but your speculation is just that. Anything involving him would ruin his political aspirations, as it did.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh for heaven's sake! At FIRST it was an accident. But it became murder when he ran away. What on earth is so difficult to grasp here?
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  yankeedoodleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ancient history anyway...off topic i think?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Uh, what exactly does it look like we're discussing here?
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! You really don't know the law, do you?
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well she is damn close, much closer than you are.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh spare me. If he had crashed in the pond and done everything he could to save her it wouldn't have been murder. Because he was drunk it was. And then compounded by the fact that he ran away. I may not know the exact terms in law but I fully understand the concepts.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  May not know the exact terms? Don't have a clue about the exact terms, you should say. Hey, ask Buck. A former PO may have a little better grasp of the legal terms and charges than you or I. How bout it Buck, is your helper correct? If someone leaves the scene of an accident are they murderers in the eyes of the law?
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If that person is in mortal danger they are. If the person who caused the accident is drunk and then leaves, definitely.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently, it is difficult to grasp the fact the Kennedy was in his high male ego prime and acted on impulse, someone died, and his family helped him make it all go away.......and idiots here think this woman's death is somehow equivalent to someone who died in a car accident with Laura Bush?
  
  That is so much bogus crap, and just shows the liberals will use anyone, anything, to try to make a point, and it is so disgusting, so disheartening, and so very detrimental to the liberal cause. Further, I'm surprised that any conservative here has even bothered to respond to such insanity -- including myself.
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There are all these laws on the books covering vehicular homicide and I don't think one lists as an element of the offense that the act had to be planned!!!
  
  He by statute committed a homicide!
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
The results were the same. Two people died.

One perpetrator you condemn and vilify...the other you pat on the head and pacify; "There there Laura, we know you didn't mean it...."

You have a double-standard, as with everything else. Like, where's the proof Kennedy never felt any remorse? You said it...you must know, right? Wrong. You just said it cause you felt like it. Nobody jumps on your every word, however, like you do.

So, when did Kennedy say he felt no remorse? If you knew anything about it, you would know he felt great remorse. His whole political career after that was trying to make up for it. You may not know, but at his funeral, there were masses of people he had helped...the ignored of society...he never ignored them.

But that never matters to you reactionary ideologues.
Nor the fact that Obama had that ceremony for the unveiling of Reagans statue...with Nancy and her family.
It was just one of the many nice moments reaching across the aisle that Obama has tried to do.
At least Nancy Reagan was human enough to respond in kind. She hugged Obama right back.

ooooooo. Traitor!!!!
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  yankeedoodleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A moment of agreement and not more agreeing to diagree...maybe both parties can learn from that?
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Buck Steinerposted 13 years ago
CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE. (a) A person
commits an offense if he causes the death of an individual by
criminal negligence.

Leaving a victim inside a car underwater without rendering aid would be criminal negligence!

Wow, You don't really know the laws!
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  yankeedoodleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps back on topic would help here..Fox, MSNBC, ABC, CNN, all of them...not providing news but their personal opinion, in my opinion. All the stations care about is providing entertainment, improved rating, and making money...just my opinion....
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  These things meander yankee . . . roll with it. It'll come back 'round in due course
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Making money, yeah, but even that's secondary to manipulating public opinion for their power-mad plans.
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Madame Xposted 13 years ago
Kennedy pleaded "guilty" - got that? GUILTY - to leaving the scene of an accident. Are you saying he didn't know she was left in the car?

Murder!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I suppose he could have stayed there and just used his cell phone to call for help, right? Do you remember him saying he tried to get her out? Or do you just pick and choose things which your party tells you to believe? Silly question! Of course you do!
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  Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Kennedy said? Why would you believe a murderer?
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Madame Xposted 13 years ago
Serbia
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Arthur Fontesposted 13 years ago
If I am not mistaken didn't Teddy go home and sleep a few hours before even notifying authorities. He left the girl in the river until he had a chance to sleep it off.

I dunno maybe I am wrong. I think most people would have seen jail time if their name had not been Kennedy.
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Buck Steinerposted 13 years ago
Manson killed Shea! You can argue it until the range fed cows come home but you would be wrong.

So to make a long drawn out thread about killers end, the difference is Bush never conspired to kill anyone, Bush never conspired to kill anyone and one last time, Bush never conspired to kill anyone!

Kennedy left the scene of an accident leaving a helpless woman to drown and didn't report it until 8 hours later! His corpse should be dug up and hung for being the scumbag he was!

Remember now, Bush never conspired to kill anyone, so the Manson connection fails miserably!
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
You people are kidding yourself if you actually believe that if it had been Kennedy and not Laura Bush under those exact same circumstances you would not still be calling him a murderer.

As for Kennedy's accident, none of us know exactly what went on as none of us were there. And none of us know how we would have reacted under the exact same circumstances.
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I most certainly would not have acted as he did. If you're not certain of yourself, say so.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  She didn't know you were psychic either, X! Give her a break!
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  Madame Xposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  She assumed no one would know how they would react in similar circumstances. Yes, you can know how you would respond. If you have a genuine care for others, it would NEVER even occur to you to leave the scene until you did everything you could to be sure everyone was ok.
  
  If UW isn't sure that she cares that much about others, then she should say so and not recklessly assume everyone is as unaware.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How many times have you crashed a car into the water, X? After someone stays underwater for a while they drown. Simple as that.
  
  You can say what you wish but you have no idea what you would do under similar circumstances. It's easy to judge others when you are not in their shoes.
  
  Dick Cheney shot his friend in the face with a shotgun. No one was allowed to question him for quite some time. Like Kennedy, he was trying for spin control after the fact. He had his political career to consider. He even got the guy to apologize for getting shot.
  
  If I followed yours and JWC's logic, Cheney is an attempted murderer. If the guy had died (thank goodness he didn't) I would not state adamantly that he was a murderer even though I detest the scoundrel. So you can't have it both ways. But I bet you think you can.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are really reaching........
  
  So, how many drowning victims have you rescued, pumped water out and air in, to their lungs, after what period of time? Share with us your personal medical EMT knowledge, and whatever else you want to add, so lamely, to this continued defense of what again 'most of the country' considers a screw up of that Kennedy -- I think you should fund a poll -- better yet, maybe there has already been a poll in that regard -- rather than a jury of peers - a poll of peers.....
  
  Cheney? You give up on implicating Laura Bush, and now you bring in Cheney as an equivalent situation to Kennedy? Who started this crap? It is insane, and shows the utter desperation and stupidity of left wing liberal goobers.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I never implicated Laura Bush in the first place, no matter how many times you say it, it still isn't true! And you still do not speak for "most of the country" no matter how bad you want to.
  
  I never stated it wasn't a screw up either. But a screw up still doesn't equate to murder. Ask Dumbya or Buck! Laura Bush screwed up by running a stop sign by her own admission. Dick Cheyney screwed up by his own admission. Ted did the same.
  
  But you seem to think only republicans should get away with screw ups. I disagree and have no personal knowledge of any of the accidents, just as you don't. You nor X were there and neither was I. You have no more knowledge of the facts than I do.
  
  For your information, I was once a lifeguard and have saved people's lives. I also know a car in the water at night is not easy to locate or to retrieve an unconscious body from.
  
  Left wing liberal goobers, huh. Personal attacks help your cause tremendously.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  " I also know a car in the water at night is not easy to locate or to retrieve an unconscious body from. "
  
  Pretty much impossible when you are swimming away from it...
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Cheney? You give up on implicating Laura Bush, and now you bring in Cheney as an equivalent situation to Kennedy? Who started this crap? It is insane, and shows the utter desperation and stupidity of left wing liberal goobers."
  
  Sometimes a person starts in on defending a position only to realize too late that it is infefensible. Get the ego involved and he may feel he's in too deep to let it go no matter how ridiculous it makes him look. Kinda funny, really.
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  Sab Ohposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...
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  Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, we would all like to know we would do the right thing. However, this has never happened to me so I can't say how I would react. It has nothing to do with whether or not I care about others. That is actually personally insulting to me that you would say that.
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  JWestCattleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  TO UW and Godwin: ?????? Laura Bush would not have reacted to Kennedy's circumstance in the same way. Laura Bush is a completely different individual than that particular Kennedy. Bogus argument.
  
  And if Kennedy had had the same accident as Laura Bush -- the view of law enforcement, and the public -- would be completely different -- as she is a woman of integrity, a woman of grace, a woman with none of the baggage of Kennedy. bogus argument. Kennedy in the same accident as Laura, which had police involved, would not have had the shadow of murder stalking him, he would just be locked up, if it was clear he was responsible, and no bribes changed things, that he was Drunk or ticked, Randy, and responsible for death of another human by negligent homicide, which Laura Bush was not, and even with clear evidence of guilt, Kennedy would have never served much jail time, if any, that's America at it's worst....
  
  ......and you people spend so much time attacking the nuevo conservative rich and taxes, when it is the truly old rich that keep you tucked away and down where you are and give lip service to the American dream. Sad.
  
  (the whole of the country just told me that in a mass email. )
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Uninvited Writer! I'm glad someone on this thread can READ!
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Mishaposted 13 years ago
While you are arguing guys, Bush and Obama are running away with your money
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  Arthur Fontesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We do not have any money. All we have are legal instruments of debt.
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So you mean - then let them run away? OK, your country, your call
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  Arthur Fontesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No I am saying with hyperinflation looming over our shoulders the dollar isn't the best investment for the future. I have seen used vehicle prices skyrocket in the past year.
  
  Right now I would rather have 10 $2000.00 Honda Civics then $20,000 dollars.
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  Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL I would rather have $2000 under the mattress than any of your choices. Well, I have them
  
  I expect a noticeable period of severe deflation, before hyperinflation comes. In fact it already started - but this all goes way off-topic
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  yankeedoodleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It all started down hill with Reagan, More with Clinton and Nafta, Bush having us believe give the rich a tax break and they would invest in businesses and new jobs, along with more Nafta antics. They've all failed us, both parties. Now Obama, cursed with having to fix it all. If it hadnt been him McCain would have been faced with the same dilemna. And in the end, all we have are two parties who can accomplish nothing but to disagree...The old ways obviously haven't worked and newer ideas, even if controversial need to be tried if we ever hope to crawl out of this mess.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very true.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  You can take that back to 1933. The old ways would work, it is the new corporation society that is the problem. When the people became chattel to cover debt any resemblance of real wealth in the population was lost.
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  yankeedoodleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree, the old ways worked in their day...To be competive today we need to lead in new technologies. Young people, not my age or the ancients (some in political power into their 90's) can lead us in a new direction towards our future. The plants are gone, and in my opinion not coming back. We need to get back to basics. Technology is the wave of the future, we need to start acting like Americans and not greedy consumers looking for the cheap product at the cost of American jobs. We've already traveled that road, and here we are, boring money and owned by third world countries.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  We can get back to basics with new technology. Look at the programmers making money coding phone apps. They are college kids sitting in a dorm. Small business is what started this country and it will be small business that maintains us in the future. You really do not disagree.
  
  I do not know how to combat greed.
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  yankeedoodleposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, the young people have the knowledge to lead. It's time to let them in the drivers seat. Small business is the answer. Big box stores take your money and ship it to off shore accounts. People "think" they're saving money and they're saving nothing. All they are doing is helping to put this country further and further behind the eight ball, owned by foreign interests.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  People of every age can start a small business. Even if it is part time. Everyone has skills that are marketable. The only thing that needs to be discovered is the market.
  
  For example: I work in sales, I could easily find places where I would be able to work on a commission only basis.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Back to the Kennedy thing - I don't think Teddy planned Mary Jo's death. I don't think he could have rescued her in the dark. He did, however, show extremely bad judgment in drinking and driving and by not reporting the accident for 10 hours.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have never said anything different. But bad judgment was evident in all of the aforementioned accidents, no matter the party. But some seem to think it's only a crime when Teddy did it.
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Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago
Randy, Habee, shades is starting a 30 minute hub challenge in 9 minutes. Wanna play?
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Pandora, but we're too busy solving the world's problems! lol
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  Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well good to know ya'll are on the job. Carry on, then!
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks PB, but been there, done that!
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Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago
jwest, up for a 30 minute rant?
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habeeposted 13 years ago
No, Randy, I'm not happy with the results, except that Hussein is gone. And I think Afghanistan is going to turn into another Vietnam. As I've told you before, I don't think the US should be the world's police.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bush started both wars, but finished neither of them. His cronies made a few bucks though which was the driving force for the war in the first place.
  
  Perhaps someone can clean up his mess for him!
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Is FOX News a catalyst for change or fodder for the masses?

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