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Thank you Los Angeles for standing up to Arizona, do you agree?

  1. profile image0
    woolman60posted 7 years ago

    Los Angeles will ban all business with Arizona until it repeals its tough new law targeting illegal immigrants

    L.A. Votes to Boycott Arizona

    http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/05/05/192 … ycott.html

    1. Jane@CM profile image61
      Jane@CMposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Link please?

    2. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Stupid. Just what CA needs given the super strong state of its economy (not to mention its own problem with illegal immigration).

      This kind of thinking is why Greeceifornia is such a mess now.

    3. Ralph Deeds profile image74
      Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Tucson is also "standing up to Arizona." Its city council voted to ignore the new law.

      1. TMMason profile image62
        TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Yeah all the sanctuary cities are whining about the law. To bad... ROUND 'EM UP BOYS.

      2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        As are Phoenix and Flagstaff.

    4. AEvans profile image69
      AEvansposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Honestly and I hate getting involved with politics the only thing California is hurting is the people of Arizona. Non of this makes any sense to me because until people deal with a higher crime rate, murders, rapes, shootings nobody will have a clue with what we are experiencing first-hand. Do you believe it is fair for the smugglers to bring there own people here rob them of there life savings, not feed them, rape little girls, refuse to give them water and take away there shoes? Sometimes the illegal immigrants get away and turn themselves in. How horrific to have to endure that pain. If we as Americans travel to any other Country they can at anytime ask for our documents the same law is written in Mexico, if the government wasn't helping us , what else could Arizona do? Arizonans are not saying we do not wish to have anyone come here , we are asking that they are legal, to me that makes sense. My aunt is from Mexico and she had gotten all of her legalization papers, green card etc. before she came here and then she became an AMERICAN citizen.

      We lived in California, a majority of jobs are Union so we experienced picketing, etc. so how would a person feel if they were worth $45.00 per hour but they are offered $10.00 because there are people without papers who would work for that amount? Is that fair?

      Arnold came to the U.S. legally , did he not? He came in on a VISA so what is the difference? When U.S. Customs finds people in containers that are illegal they send them back to there Country, have all of us forgotten that?

      I believe the ban is silly and until our own government protects our borders and keeps not only its citizens safe but stops the smugglers from harming there own people and cleaning out there bank accounts, murderering and starving them Arizona did not have any other choice. Instead of coming in illegally they should take there heart earned money and apply for the correct documentation. If they are rapist, murderers, pedophiles, etc. they should not be allowed into our Country. But it is my own opinion and when people walk in our shoes then there will be a better understanding.

      Life is for all and I would rather have them come legally then to be harmed by smugglers, wouldn't you agree? Why take the chance of having there little girls raped, there sons sodomized when they can come here legally and start life anew?

      I am sickened by the entire thing and to me they are human beings with hearts, souls and minds do it right and be safe.

      1. profile image80
        soumyasrajanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Your last sentence expresses  your sentiment a good one, in fact a very good one! But all arguments above that look to me to be  opposite of this statement. What you do not realize perhaps  is that giving such a blind power in the hands of Police (and not court) has a big possibility to be used against Americans (people like you ) -much more than against immigrants. After all main population consists of Anglo Saxon- or more generally European originated Americans and not Hispanics. They will suffer most if such rules against all democratic traditions are passed.

        The basic principle of democracy is that an innocent person should not get punished, as far as possible, what ever happens. A judge has to often leave even some body charged with a murder if evidence is not beyond doubt. 

        Who should decide this? whether you are innocent or not? The main change in Arizona law is not that it is about illegal immigrants. The change is that style of law gives some  rights to decide who is innocent or who is illegal to police instead of Judge for short periods. This will result in trouble to average American much more than illegal immigrants.

        If you want to know how it can happen, just read about  McCarthy era in USA. A time when just a small committee of senators created trouble for some of the best minds in USA (including some of those who created for example atomic bomb for USA) ruined there lives etc. and had potential to destroy all the freedom in USA. Now that was power just to a small committee,  here the law is giving power to average Policeman (many of them may not have even be required proper education to make such decisions). You can  just imagine the effect.

        If you want to see a long term effects such a policy which is direct attack on democracy and giving power to army and Police etc. Just look at Pakistan or similar other countries with feudal and army/police  rules. (unfortunately USA is supporting now such countries much more in place of democracies etc. )

        Just like you,  I have nothing to do with Politics or law etc. I am a Scientist and live in Mumbai India. But I come to USA also very often and have lived there for long periods. USA is second home for me. I like both countries equally. Just try to understand the change this law may bring, I am sure you will see it.

        Let me make comment on one more point from your argument, that Foreigners have less freedom in other countries. In India and in many other countries actually foreigners as well citizens often have much more freedom.  One may have to show passport some time but no body is asked to carry all the time identification. A police cop in India  gets often salaries less than US$ 400 a month, lives in a slum, that creates corruption and not so good law and order machinery (bad jails for example compared to USA but USA jails are much worse than those in Europe ). Many other things are much better in some of these countries. Over all your impression that Freedom is much more in USA is quite  away from reality.  Do you travel often? Just try it some times to experience your self.

        1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
          Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Great commentary.

          1. profile image80
            soumyasrajanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Thank u Ralph. I feel the same often with your comments

    5. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      No I do not agree.
      L.A. should be ashamed of its unpatriotism and foolishness.

    6. profile image0
      woolman60posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      3% of Illegal Aliens Do Low-Paid Stoop Agricultural Labor;
      the Remaining 97% Take Jobs That Americans Want and Need, this is why we have a problem in America today, American are selling out on Americans to save money, and hire the "IIlegal Aliens" .

      I get it now and thanks for your comments

      1. Misha profile image76
        Mishaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Source?

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          FoxNews?

        2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Sarah Palin?

        3. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          TK?

      2. Rafini profile image87
        Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I'd like to point out a job I had 15 years ago making $5.85 an hour where I know a few illegal immigrants also worked, and they were making $7.00 an hour.  I was a cashier, the illegal immigrants worked in maintenance.

        Where was the company saving money by hiring illegal immigrants???  By keeping my wages below what the illegals were earning!!

    7. Evan G Rogers profile image79
      Evan G Rogersposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      ... yeah... thank you ... L.A..... your punishing innocent Arizona people, and you're punishing your own group of people.

      ... can i remind everyone that there is NO magical entity known as "Arizona" that goes around and randomly craps on immigrants?

      PEOPLE wrote those laws - specific people with names, who somehow think that treating people like garbage will solve their economic problems.

      PEOPLE enforce those laws - specific people with names and families who don't have the courage to say "no" to their bosses.

      PEOPLE are abused by these laws - specific people who's only crime was to want to be more free than they were in their home land.

      The PEOPLE of the Federal Government need to be chastised for restricting freedom to immigrants.

      The PEOPLE of the Arizona state government need to be chastised for their horrible treatment of innocent people who simply want a better life.

      The PEOPLE of the City Council of LA need to be chastised for lowering the standard of living for their citizenry and the standard of living of the innocent people of the land known as Arizona.

      THE PEOPLE are responsible

    8. profile image67
      logic,commonsenseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      As soon as Arizona can tell L.A. what laws they can or cannot pass, then LA can try and legislate what Arizona can do.

  2. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    Idiocy does not observe borders...

    1. TMMason profile image62
      TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      yeah I know we have a whole lot of foriegn idiots here in the US. We need to deport them to.

  3. Ohma profile image75
    Ohmaposted 7 years ago

    LA's Loss. If the federal government will not enforce it's own laws why be surprised when the states take matters into their own hands?

    1. Petra Vlah profile image60
      Petra Vlahposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Without the cheap illegal labor, California would be in an even greater depression.

      1. Ohma profile image75
        Ohmaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I am sorry I do not understand. I may be a little slow but if the illegals are taking jobs that should rightfully go to US citizens how is that helping anyone? Especially how is that helping the economy of Ca?

        1. Sab Oh profile image56
          Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          It doesn't help anyone, including the illegal aliens.

          1. rebekahELLE profile image91
            rebekahELLEposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            besides the fact that they are often willing to work in abusive work conditions. something has to change. if we're going to have laws, they must be fair and they must be enforced.

        2. TMMason profile image62
          TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          It isn't.

          You understand perfectly.

          Don't let em confuse ya.

      2. Bill Miller profile image56
        Bill Millerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        So its OK with you if Pablo Cruz replaces Tom Cruise in MI4?

        This joke might work better if everybody knew who/what Pablo Cruz was.

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Pablo Cruise

  4. Joni Douglas profile image83
    Joni Douglasposted 7 years ago

    The Arizona law mirrors the federal law.
    Why get upset at the state and not the feds?

  5. DevLin profile image60
    DevLinposted 7 years ago

    The Mexican Consulate announced there's going to be a mass exodus of illegals from Az to other states. LA is one of there favorite destinations, and they're mad. Wonder why? Maybe it's the cost of the new cases of welfare they're going to be paying.

    Once it passed here, they said they were going to boycott the state.

  6. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    The ordered chaos is about to begin in the U.S. of A.

    The damn politicians want what they want, business wants what it wants, and the citizens get screwed as usual.

    What next? Hmmm............. hmm

    1. TMMason profile image62
      TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      What next... is the left keeps inflaming and promoting racail hatred and bigotry. Till there is a race war. And the white people once again annihilate and enslave all the other races.

      History just loves to repeat itself. smile

      Oh well.

      1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
        Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Seems to me you are one of the ones promoting racial and religious hatred and bigotry, right here:

        http://hubpages.com/hub/Islam-Socailism … oy-America 

        Not to mention lies and misinformation.

        1. leeberttea profile image54
          leebertteaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I don't know about that. There were rather large protests against the AZ law. Al Sharpton himself flew out to participate. How were so many people gathered together so quickly in such a short time, in a state where 70% approve of the new law, including most legal immigrants? The protests were obviously organized by somebody, labor for one (SEIU) and Sharpton, who tried to appease his members which also are overwhelming against illegal immigration. The protests were rater violent as well with bottles thrown at the police, etc.
          Put that all together with the fact that the protesters were calling the bill racist, I'd have to say they (which I think we can assume are on the left) were the ones promoting the racial hatred.

      2. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Your comment to my comment is completely out of whack, kind a like your individual way of thinking is. roll

  7. rebekahELLE profile image91
    rebekahELLEposted 7 years ago

    I heard today on the news that Arizona lost out on the republican convention for 2012 because of the political atmosphere there, guess who got it?  yep, florida. tampa bay. should be crazy.

    maybe it will bring some traffic to our florida hubs.

    1. DevLin profile image60
      DevLinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      We had the convention? Good God, why? The idiots we have running this place are enough. We didn't want a convention full of them. And I would sayy that agin, if it was the democrats holding a convention. Politicians suck!

      1. rebekahELLE profile image91
        rebekahELLEposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Phoenix, Salt Lake City and Tampa were the final choices. They announced Tampa today. it will be a big boost to our economy. but lots of crazy republicans running around. lol

        1. DevLin profile image60
          DevLinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          They definitely hung themselves passing this thing, but it got the attention they wanted over the border problem. Not going to change anything though. Brewer waited ti sign it, and I think it was to see if it'll be overturned. It should. I think that's why she signed it. Just another ploy by politicians to screw everyone around them, and make themselves look important..

      2. Ralph Deeds profile image74
        Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Politics in Arizona are crazy. Napolitano, a Democrat, was the previous governor. The vast majority of Hispanics are Democrats.
        The Tucson city council voted to challenge or not enforce the law. The budget deficit is such that the highway rest stops were closed by the state.

  8. tony0724 profile image60
    tony0724posted 7 years ago

    The San Diego City Council chose the boycott too. But all except for a guy named Carl De Maio all of them are legal gangsters. So if politicians are opposed It gets me skeptical. I lived most of my life in LA and these guys make Blago look like a Saint.

  9. JON EWALL profile image44
    JON EWALLposted 7 years ago

    hubbers
    For your information, 40% OF LOS ANGELES IS OF MEXICAN DESENT.
    We are a nation of the rule of law, the politicians keep telling the people.
    You cross the border without permission ,you have broken the 1986 Federal Immigration Law and are subject to arrest.
    The problem with the Federal Law is that our government's idea of enforcing the law is to catch an illegal alien and then sent the illegal back to the border.
    No law that punishes the violator with the above can be take seriously and is a waste of time, taxpayer money and a violation of ones oath of office. The federal government is inept in doing the job. The Government and Congress are the problem.

    Arizona Immigration Law SB 1070 upholds the federal law with one exception, Arizona intends to enforce the law.

    A recent article in a local paper stated:
    Immediately after the law was passed the number of people visiting the Mexican consulate to apply for Mexican passports and Mexicans birth certificates for their US-born children jumped from about 20 a day to 100 a day, indicating that many people were considering leaving Arizona and returning to Mexico.

    For those protesting in defiance of the laws and supporting those people who have broken the law need to understand that 70% of the people agree with the ARIZONA AND FEDERAL law.
    The press and media have distorted the Arizona law. Check it out at foxnews.com/yourworld ,it's only 16 pages long.
    In today's world it seems that right is wrong and that wrong is right, that's not the America that I know.

  10. MikeNV profile image73
    MikeNVposted 7 years ago

    The Arizona law is NOT anti-hispanic.  It's simply putting teeth into the enforcement of ILLEGAL Immigration.

    Illegal is not a race... but the mainstream media doesn't want to cover that.

    If there were 460,000 people wearing turbans living illegally in Arizona the media would be all over it like it was big news.

    You either protect American Citizens or you don't.  But lets stop the pretending that the only bad guys in the world wear Turbans and live in caves eating crickets.

    The People of Arizona have a right to protect themselves and their property.

  11. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 7 years ago

    Thank you to the people of Arizona for standing up for all of us legal Americans who believe laws should be enforced. If I break the law, the government comes after me - why should illegal alliens be any different.

    It's time to secure the borders and let legal Americans compete for jobs among ourselves. It's time for us to have to stop educating illegal alliens and paying for their trips to the hospital.

    1. habee profile image91
      habeeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Good points, Nelle!

  12. zzron profile image56
    zzronposted 7 years ago

    This is the nuttiest thing I've ever heard.  Why would anyone boycott a state for upholding the law and keeping  illegal immigrants out of the country?  When are these illegals going to be punished or deported?

  13. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    "I am sorry I do not understand. I may be a little slow but if the illegals are taking jobs that should rightfully go to US citizens how is that helping anyone?"

    Ohma, undocumented immigrants actually create jobs as opposed to taking them from Americans. If this were not the case, at the height of the undocumented surge (before the economy collapsed for reasons having nothing to do with them) American unemployment would have been huge, and not the 5 percent that was seen as normal.

    Jobs boom where employers know that they can get access to cheap labor, legal or not...just look at how the Inland Empire and other communities around California have boomed in size...and in the Inland Empire, the distribution centers that now cover former farmland employ a new labor force that is at least 50 percent undocumented. These are jobs that did not exist before...as opposed to taking jobs away from people.

    The DREAM Act serves as both an excellent utilitarian and humanitarian tool for remedying part of the undocumented resident/immigrant issue for both the individuals and the larger American society.

    In California alone it has been shown that there are not enough university graduates to meet the demand of business and government. The Baby Boomers are leaving us....

    Through the DREAM Act, undocumented youth and adults could gain residency and a path to citizenship by going to school through university and/or serving in the military. They would have residency while proving themselves, and by showing honorable achievement and behavior they would then be afforded the opportunity to become Americans.

    I see nothing wrong with this. It is a win-win for our economy and our society.

    With this said, the Arizona law will throw a wrench in the implementation of the DREAM Act if it were to emerge from deep within Congressional committee and gain passage.

    What a way for "conservatives" to take something potentially very productive and positive and turn it into something else...

    "The Federal government has failed to act."

    The Dream Act alone has been killed by "conservative" legislatures twice, if I remember correctly, and has had difficulty leaving committee over the past year. If "conservatives" regain control of the congress in November, this bill will again die.

    Actions are being made, but the same people who back the Arizona law are the same who destroy the potential of the DREAM Act..

    Talk about killing the idea of the American Dream...

    1. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Simplistic and misleading liberal talking points. Does the professor give you a cracker every time you repeat it?

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        So you didn't understand them?

        1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
          Uninvited Writerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          lol

        2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Well duhhhhhhhhh.

    2. TMMason profile image62
      TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Man. Liberal logic is so backward it is almost perverse.

  14. lovemychris profile image78
    lovemychrisposted 7 years ago

    Probably not...those conserves usually only like "Lock them up and throw away the key"...unless it's their own criminals that is, then it's "Oh that was in the past....fughetaboudit."


    ANY good idea is squashed by them. And there are good ideas out there...every person in Congress is not an idiot, like they would have you believe.

    They sure take an awful lot of pay for doing an awful lot of nothing.

  15. TMMason profile image62
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    Thats okay. Us American racists will get to Cali soon. Don't think we won't get around to chuckin those illegals out also. And that includes thier Mayor.They can keep pissin on our leg all they want. That will just make it that much sweeter when we do it.

    And to all you leant leftist liberals, progressives, democrats and illegals. You better get used to the fact.

    No More Amnesty!!

    1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
      Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Deporting 12 million people isn't realistic, let alone fair. Even under the current system ICE is splitting up families, deporting people who have lived nearly their entire lives here and confining thousands in for-profit prisons in deplorable conditions.

  16. leeberttea profile image54
    leebertteaposted 7 years ago

    I take it like Eric Holder, you haven't read the law either. The outrage over this law is "astroturf anger" by folks that wish to politicize a problems that is simply not being addressed by the responsible party, ie the federal government. This law was passed in desperation in an effort to get the feds to act, as they should in securing the border.

    What would it mean to be a citizen of the United States, if as a country anyone could come here for any reason unrestricted and participate in all of the advantages of a citizen? Why would any of us want to be a citizen and pay taxes or participate in elections?

    By not securing our borders, we devalue citizenship and we expose ourselves to possible terror attacks. Arizona currently is number one in kidnappings. Phoenix has some of the highest rates of crimes in all of the country, most of these perpetrated by illegal aliens that traffic in drugs or humans and deal in kidnappings. Many of the people that are smuggled into the country by "coyotes" suffer violence and abuse some are even held for ransom and many die in their efforts to cross hostile land without sufficient water.

    Honestly, can anyone really support this abuse? Arizona has the right idea and hopefully the federal government will act to preserve the values of American citizenship, and to protect innocent people from abuse.

  17. jkallgood profile image59
    jkallgoodposted 7 years ago

    Ok, here's the deal.  The Arizona doesn't make "new" law it doesn't even quote old law.  It states that they will enforce the federal law, if you have a problem with the law you don't attack the Police do you? NO! you protest the law, by electing like minded people to office and changing the law.  Arizona is just stating they will enforce the law, THE FEDERAL LAW.  If the federal law changed then there would be nothing for Arizona to enforce.

    And be honest with yourself most want illegal immigrants because they are cheeper to pay, you don't have to pay taxes on them, and they will do jobs most Americans feel are beneath them.  So all this hullabaloo is because America needs a new bottom caste.

    1. TMMason profile image62
      TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Not actually.

      They undercut the wages for the jobs done by Americans. And both sides suffer from that. There are jobs that once paid 15 to 18 $ an hour that now will only pay Mexican wages of 8 to 10. That is a bad thing for workers o both sides.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Nice avatar.  Silly post.

      2. Ralph Deeds profile image74
        Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Not to mention the jobs in China that pay 90 cents an hour and those in Cambodia that pay 20 cents an hour. Clothing manufacturing is moving from China to Vietnam, Bangladesh and Cambodia.

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          When the great wall is finished, and the 12 million illegals are deported, white Americans will be more than eager to apply for jobs picking lettuce and strawberries while moving from one disgusting campsite to the next to follow the crops.

          USA!  USA!  USA!

  18. Daniel Carter profile image89
    Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago

    Additional immigration laws seem very redundant to me. However, it's clear that the Arizona law is an attempt (as stated by others) to jolt the Feds into action. Deporting is the only option for the Feds at this point, because who is going to pay for jail time for prosecuted illegals? Who is going to pay for court costs? WE ARE. Obviously there needs to be some serious updating and revision about how to handle illegal aliens in this country. That is probably one of the key points that need to be addressed. What to do with them when they are caught so that they won't feel enabled to continue to trespass.

    If the law smacks of racial profiling and is proven to be that, then it won't be long before the law is repealed. We are now a society that scrutinizes rights for Elmer Fudd and Porky Pig. But the point of the law is clear. And where Arizona does have a very high incidence of certain crimes, probably similar to LA and other cities close to the border, then there probably isn't anything wrong with "shaking it up" in an effort to improve conditions for American citizens.

  19. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    "Liberal" "Liberal" "Liberal"


    Sounds awful like "Marcia Marcia Marcia"

    How is the DREAM Act a "talking point"?


    "Conservatives" in the 1960's thought Civil Rights legislation were just "liberal talking points" as well..

    It's funny how many people here write the same types of messages or argumentation found on the Ku Klux Klan web page.

    That isn't to say people here are racists per se....but it just shows that their alignment would be with the Klan before it would be with us "liberals."

    What tripe.

    1. TMMason profile image62
      TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Man it is just a joke any time a liberal or democrat brings up the civil rights acts. Which were crushed into subcomittee by the dixiecrats in 1865-66 and and trampled down till needed to minipulate a voting blok.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        The bigger joke is your ignorance of political history.  At this point in U.S. history, the Republicans were the liberal party, the Democrats were the conservatives - States Rights, Jim Crow laws etc.

        Read

        Learn

        Comment

        In that order.

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      To answer the DREAM ACT question as a talking point, let me re-phrase your comment from above as follows:

      Through the DREAM ACT illegal aliens can gain citizenship (not residency as they are already here) by going to school using funds confiscated from American citizens.  Or they could serve in military that already has more Americans applying than it can use (great thought, that - we really need a military composed of mercenaries).

      I would certainly agree that it is a win for the illegal alien, but I question how the lack of funding for American students (that has been given to illegal foreign nationals) makes it a win for them? Or the person (myself) that has helped pay for the education of an extra-national criminal instead of a disadvantaged American?  Or the American citizenry that now depends on mercenaries for it's military?

      You put a great spin on the DREAM ACT, but it is just that - spin.  No substance of the positive variety.

  20. TMMason profile image62
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    Whatever man. your liberal scholorship is BS. The dixiecrats crushed any chance of the blacks gaining rights, or the chance to vote in the south at that time. It is a matter of fact. you don't like it too bad. Of course if that taught that they would also have to point out the KKK being the terrorist right arm for the dems also.

    1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
      Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Now, what's left of the KKK is the terrorist arm of the GOP.

      1. Sab Oh profile image56
        Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Are you a democrat? If so, I don't think you want to be making any comments about any kkk stuff given that party's history.

        1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
          Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Racist southern Democrats are ancient history. Now they are all Republicans thanks to Nixon's and Reagan's southern strategy.

          1. leeberttea profile image54
            leebertteaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            In many ways this board reflects the same issues that plague our government today and showcase why they can't get anything done.  Instead of focusing on the problem, they are focused on the politics, on how to get and maintain power. It's really not a difficult problem or a divisive issue. Secure borders or not?

            1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
              Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, the borders should be secured so far as it's possible to do so, and a reasonable pathway to legal status and/or American citizenship established for the 12 million immigrants already here.

              1. Sab Oh profile image56
                Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                All of them?

                1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
                  Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  All of them who meet reasonable criteria, e.g., no felony convictions, and completion of the requirements for attaining legal status or citizenship.

              2. TMMason profile image62
                TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                No amnesty. They can get out.

                The back of the line starts in thier own country. Too bad.

              3. Rafini profile image87
                Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                12,000,000 illegal immigrants given a reasonable pathway to legal status?  Are you serious?  As an American Citizen, born and raised, I have found no such thing exists for me in terms of getting ahead in life.  (speaking of reasonable pathways)  Why should it be handed to illegal immigrants?  Like a silver spoon?

          2. Arthur Fontes profile image88
            Arthur Fontesposted 7 years agoin reply to this



            Ralph are you saying that in all the South there is not one racist democrat?

            1. Sab Oh profile image56
              Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              What do you mean? A democrat, by definition, cannot be racist, violent, bigoted, or anything less than pure, unadulterated goodness.

            2. Ralph Deeds profile image74
              Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              No. I'm saying that nearly all the old racist Democrat senators, congressmen and governors have been replaced by Republicans. When I was growing up in Louisiana the governor's race was settled in the Democratic primary. Now Louisiana has a Republican governor. And I will concede that the current Republicans and not as racist as were the Eastlands and other Democrats.

      2. TMMason profile image62
        TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        The KKK is left.

        the N.A.Z.I.s are lefties.

        Socailists are lefties.

  21. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Mason.....you really need a history class...

    Badly...

    Civil Rights legislation is a 1960's thing...the Reconstruction Acts are something else....they had to do with civil rights, yes, but there is only one era in American history known as the "Civil Rights" period...

    The only whining I see on Hubpages is coming from the likes of you Mason and your own ilk.....

    "whining"....."pining"....those words reflect your own statements....

    For others, like myself, Ron, and Ralph here, there is the use of actual facts of history.....

    "round them up boys"....."foreign idiots"......that sounds like emotion based, fact-less whining babble to me.....and you are one of the few doing it...

    Good job living up to your own hype...yet again.

  22. TMMason profile image62
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    @ Ron

    Man.

    1- check your facts. Just dusted the acts off and passed them after supressing them for 90+ years.

    2- As far as whining... we see and hear quite clearly who it is crying. From everything about AZ. to Healthcare. OHHH Waaa give us gimme give gimme.

    Believe me it is well known which side of the isle cries victim all the time.

    @Ralph

    Show me the lies in the Socailism And Islam Hub. You cannot Ralph. It is all fact. Or as you two seem so fond of saying, it is history. Go read and learn.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Your drivel has grown tiresome.  Bye now.

      1. TMMason profile image62
        TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Yeah sure ron. it is okay. Go moap.

  23. leeberttea profile image54
    leebertteaposted 7 years ago

    Okay, I'm afraid I don't understand. Is there anybody here in favor of eliminating our borders and allowing anyone to come and go as they please?

    Or is there anyone in favor of a secure border?

    Forget about all the people that are already here. Which is it?

  24. lovemychris profile image78
    lovemychrisposted 7 years ago

    Well, I'd like to know...why now? Why not this uproar when Bush was pres? He didn't do anything to secure the border...all this stuff was going on. In fact, he and Fox were best buds.....
    Also in fact, Obama has done MORE about this problem than Bush ever did. Hilda Solis is awesome! And they have targeted the right people, imo..the business owners who hire illegals!

    But just as the tea-bag protests, and asking them, where were you for 8 years of the Bush administration?
    Where were you people in Arizona for 8 years of Bush? What about McCain??? He didn't do anything to secure the borders...his solution involved amnesty. No big blow-out then.

    Who is firing up this ruckus? Now, when it's been going on for a very long time. Hell, Bush even threw 2 border guards in prison for shooting a drug dealer, remember??
    Not even a whisper from Arizona or the Repubs about that.....

    Why all this anger now?

    1. leeberttea profile image54
      leebertteaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Actually Bush did try to pass comprehensive immigration reform, but there wasn't an appetite for it in congress or with the American people. He also approved millions for a camera system that didn't work to well and was finally scrapped.

      I don't know why you're asking "why now", when this issue has been talked about for years. There has been plenty of anger, but the most recent anger seems to be over the AZ law and it seems to be the illegals that are the ones that are angry.

      All that aside, are you, or are you not in favor of secure borders?

      1. lovemychris profile image78
        lovemychrisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, I'm for secure borders, but I don't know how you would do it, It's so massive.
        And of course you know that even WITH security systems in place, plenty of illegal workers for corporations and drugs for the CIA drug racket ALWAYS get through! (geee, wonder why?)

        Seems to me you are picking on the LEAST of the problem.
        If they could make it at home they wouldn't be coming here....
        Mexico has to address this problem, but also we have made it our problem by recruiting the cheap labor, and allowing American companies to go down there and ruin neighborhoods, pollute the place and pay slave wages.

        And who did that?
        Same as always causes all the trouble in the world...big money. big business. big greed.

        Here's my solution: Let all the wealthy people go to Dubai and be waited on hand and foot. Live like Kings and Queens.

        Then the rest of us can go to our respective countries and SHARE THE WEALTH THAT WE ALL CREATE.
        Stop the CIA drug racket. Stop selling guns to anyone who wants one with no background check or anything?

        As you can see, I don't know what the answer is....
        But locking up families is not it.

        1. TMMason profile image62
          TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          NO man. We are not socailists. I for one will not be told by anyone to, "share the wealth". And we will not be locking any families up. There is still plenty of room in the back of the bus.

          And gun laws are plenty strict enough.

        2. Misha profile image76
          Mishaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          We tried it already during the 20th century, many times over with the same devastating result.

          1. lovemychris profile image78
            lovemychrisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I don't know....I think the Scandinavian countries have a handle on it.
            Or maybe did have for a while.
            There's just got to be a better way than having all the wealth float to a few at the top.

            It's incredible to me that we accept homelessness and poverty in a "rich" country.

            Here's something I heard on the radio today:
            This man was talking about schools, and how where his niece lived, they had 32 after school programs for the kids, while in is neighborhood, the schools didn't even have enough books to go around.

            This is equality?
            Prison system....equality? HA! Favoritism, Racism and Classism.

            And what will you do about the companies that hire illegals?
            Where's the bus for them?

    2. TMMason profile image62
      TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Man I have been saying get out for the past 40 years.

      Where were you?

      Neither I, nor America have ever been for giving illegals amnesty. Yet they have shoved thier shit down our throats over and over. Both sides have screwed us... over.... and over... and over again.

      Now they can screw off.

      NO MORE AMNESTY!!! GET OUT.

      YEE HAWWWW

      lololol

      1. lovemychris profile image78
        lovemychrisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        No, I actually think it's more like this: A hubber named Williams posted an article that said the Republicans were orchestrating this brue-haha to get the illegals out because they see them as a potential votes for the Democratic party.

        A big base of votes for the DNC, and they have to be booted out pronto, since Repubs want power back.

        That makes more sense to me, because like I said, they did not cause such a stink over it when Bush was pres....it was a problem, but never did Arizona do this before...and the same gv was there, wasn't she?

        Is she Republican?
        If so, I think she got her marching orders from someone, and they all took it from there.
        "They all" meaning the Republican Media Machine.

  25. TMMason profile image62
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    I am for secure the border(S). Notice the plural.

    Then deport them all. Black, white, brown, yellow, gay, straight, other, undecided, etc..

    If'n your illegal. Your outta here.

  26. Rafini profile image87
    Rafiniposted 7 years ago

    Why doesn't anyone look at the bigger picture?  Meaning - illegal immigrants come to America from Mexico & other Central American countries because of their poor economies.  Makes absolute sense to me.  There is no way a person from these countries could ever save enough money to enter the US Legally within their own lifetime.  Think about it.  One Mexican Peso, right now, is worth $0.08 American Dollars.  http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html

    The real issue here, is and has been, how to improve the Mexican Economy in order to save the Economy of the World.

    1. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      It is Mexico's job to improve the Mexican economy. It is the US government's job to protect the US borders.

      1. Rafini profile image87
        Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Where have you been for the past 25 years?  We now live with a Global Economy!  big_smile 
        Seriously, though.  It's a worldwide problem due to the interdependency of the worlds countries.

        1. Sab Oh profile image56
          Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          The global economy does not obligate us to fix every basketcase country. It is up to them to get their $!#@ together if they want to participate in that global economy. Or do you want us to invade, overthrow their corrupt government, mercilessly annihilate the gangsters and drug lords and make a government for them?

          1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
            Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I think his point was that if the Mexican economy were better fewer Mexicans would be sneaking into the U.S.

            1. Rafini profile image87
              Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, Ralph, exactly!  I'm also saying it's up to the World to improve the Mexican economy, not the US alone.

            2. Sab Oh profile image56
              Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              If the Mexican government were more responsible fewer Mexicans would be sneaking into the US with the encouragement of that government. I hope they do improve their economy and their government. It would be better for the Mexican people and it would be better for us. We have proven to be willing to help, but in the end it is their responsibility. And no, whining about living next to a bigger, more stable and successful country is NOT taking responsibility. Shameless race-baiting is not taking responsibility. Using us as their relief valve for excess poverty is not taking responsibility. Dictating what laws our states can enact to protect our people is not taking responsibility. And certainly, masterbational, empty, academic theories about 'macro' effects of capitalism and competition is not taking responsibility.

              1. Rafini profile image87
                Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Ok then.  Finally, we can agree on something. big_smile 

                Mexico is, and has been, irresponsible and the US shouldn't have to take responsibility for Mexicos failure.

    2. TMMason profile image62
      TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Thier idea of improving thier economy is to siphon ours off.

      I will say it again.

      No Amnesty. Let them build thier own shitty ass countries up. We don't need to make our country into Mexico in order to satisfy the worlds whimpering.

      They can piss off.

      1. Rafini profile image87
        Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I agree with No Amnesty.  However, I also realize we live in a Global Economy and since we do I don't believe the flow of illegal immigrants will stop or even slow down until Mexicos economy improves!  Mexicos poor economy is tied to the rest of the world since Mexican Citizens are so willing to immigrate illegally to America rather than work out the issues of their own country.

        1. Sab Oh profile image56
          Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          That sounds like an argument for strict control of our borders.

  27. TMMason profile image62
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    Mexicos ecomnomy is capable of supporting and generating wealth for Mexicans. But the corruption is so rampant it will never happen.

    They have alot of oil.

    Where is all the money?

    And that is just the surface.

    You cannot help someone or a country. Who doesn't want it. They would rather come here and cry a little and be handed everything to be the good lil victims and vote democrat.

    They have no impetus to repair and rebiuld thier own society, When they can just run here and be coddled.

    Mexicans have to fix Mexico.

    That is just an indisputable fact.

    I would love to see Mexico up and runnin well. But.... I don't think they will ever try if we don't force the situation.

    1. Rafini profile image87
      Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Force it!!

    2. DevLin profile image60
      DevLinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I've worked with lwagals and illegals. The best in school any of thenmm had, was8th grade. They don't even know the problems of their country. Not many even had TV's or newspapers. How can they fix, what they don't know? They just knew they had no work. Or, $1 an hour jobs.

      1. Rafini profile image87
        Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I speak of Forcing It through World Leaders who dreamed up the Global Economy because it was supposed to be so good for us.  A Global Economy is not a good idea when so many countries in the World are enemies or at War.  The world is not ready for a Global Economy.  There are too many issues within individual countries that nobody wants to fix or nobody knows how to fix them.

        (America fought for Independence for this??  Insanity!! )

        1. DevLin profile image60
          DevLinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          That's okay. I was answering Mason.

          1. Rafini profile image87
            Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            lol   ooops, okay.  It was kinda hard to tell. big_smile

        2. Sab Oh profile image56
          Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          A 'Global Economy' is nothing new and has brought opportunity and prosperity to corners of the world that otherwise wouldn't have known it for many centuries on their own. Any misguided attempt at fearful isolationism would condemn millions of the poorest in the world to starvation, privation, and death.

          1. Misha profile image76
            Mishaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Disingenuous hyperbole smile

            1. profile image0
              kimberlyslyricsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              oh misha so confused again hmm:  but wanted to say hi big_smile

              1. Misha profile image76
                Mishaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Hi Kimberly, how are you tonight? smile

                1. profile image0
                  kimberlyslyricsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  kinda grumpy, better eat *wink*

                  My boyfriend is now howling at you magoo

                  now I'll go eat too

                  see you soon xoxoxoxo

                  1. Misha profile image76
                    Mishaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Bon appetite smile

        3. TMMason profile image62
          TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Man I am an isolationist of.

          I would close our borders and restrict trade right off the top. We do not need the rest of the world. America is perfectly capable of being self-suificient.

          That is not to say there are not those I would allow to be a part of our economy. But it would not be socailist and communist countries. Those are parasitic economies by definition.

          If we were to trade with them and in effect support them, as in the past, again. They would drag us down again.

          1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
            Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You are like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand and thinking nobody can see its ass up in the air.

    3. Ralph Deeds profile image74
      Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      It would help if we stopped buying their drugs.

      1. TMMason profile image62
        TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Yes ralph it is all our fault.... ya.


        Somehow I think we are quite capable of manufacturing and growing our own drugs Ralph.

  28. TMMason profile image62
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    Also. The law is to be applied equally in this country. So what about all the people in jail for breaking the law. They should all be givin amnesty, if your going to give it to illegals.

    Do we empty out the prisons? Should not all Americans recieve amnesty and have thier records washed?

    1. Ralph Deeds profile image74
      Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Not a bad idea for all the people in prison for possession of small quantities of drugs and other minor, non-violent offenses. Thanks to the failed war on drugs and other excessively punitive sentencing laws we have among the highest percentage of our population in prison of any country in the world.

  29. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    The "share the wealth" concept is a misconception, exposed by my hub on it. smile  The ideology behind "share the wealth" is full of ambiguity and lies of political officials, so as to create divisions in citizenry. wink

    1. lovemychris profile image78
      lovemychrisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Here's Obama's view:

      "It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance at success, too... My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody. If you've got a plumbing business, you're gonna be better off [...] if you've got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you, and right now everybody's so pinched that business is bad for everybody and I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

      SEE? Not give to me from you, but have enough for everybody to make it go around.
      As it is now, we have this creep Blankenfield(Frankenfield) paying 26 million dollars CASH for an apartment, while  millions of school kids go to schools without books!

      Is this crazy, or am I?
      This is assbackwards, and people act as if it's perfectly normal!

      ps; it's not. This was not happening when  I was a kid...not on this ridiculous scale. Please tell me.....why does one person need 26 million dollars? How much sh*t can he buy?

      And why do we let kids go to school without books? Oh excuse me...CERTAIN kids.

      And how is this great?????

      USA USA USA.......who's USA?

      Our values have been perverted. By perverts. Just ask them what they do for fun. You don't wanna know.

  30. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Hey Lovemychris, just to let you know, I have a couple of hubs about those you speak of - Joblessness is one of them and Poverty Solution Revealed. If you care to read them.

    Just a thought.... smile

    1. profile image0
      kimberlyslyricsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      hmmlol

    2. lovemychris profile image78
      lovemychrisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yes I will read them!

  31. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Sab and so many others keep saying "Mexicans need to fix Mexico"....

    Well, it is hard to do this when your northern neighbor, the United States holds your nation's economy, government, and military in their back pocket.

    Have you travelled to Mexico at all Sab? (aside from maybe the tourist spots?)

    American Humvees, M-16's, flak vests, and union busting....remember the TLatelolco massacre?  What was the American response to this blatant, murderous government abuse....did we boycott the games and show solidarity with the Mexican citizens who were butchered?

    No......

    Perhaps, during the American Revolution (when Britain's property was being stolen by "Americans" the "illegal/traitorous" Americans should have "taken care of themselves" as you put it Sab...

    Those French should have stayed home and kept out of it....Spain as well.

    But, in the Mexican comparison, the people of Mexico want change, but instead of being like France during our own Revolution, we are making sure the elite are staying in power....

    What a contradiction...

    We want things "legal" in the U.S.....and we are founded on the most illegal of all acts that a person or group can perpetuate against their state....

    Treason.

    When you're a traitor, what respect for law do you actually have?

    "Oh, but it was because of no taxation without representation..."

    Can it....  The American colonists paid less in taxes than the other English subjects living in England....

    "But Britain was abusing its power.."

    And the same American elites that came to power after the Revolution were much of the same who made vast fortunes off illegal smuggling and the like...

    Criminals who would have been arrested, and probably deported back to their mother country if they had been caught...

    It is funny how a nation built by criminals could become so "straight and narrow"...

    But that is only an illusion...

    1. TMMason profile image62
      TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      you were ignoring us mike...

      Ses.

      We know we were once all scum.

      But you know we have to move on.

      lol

      You know get over your failings and shortcomings and get on with life.

      Now we are nice people, mike.

      Too nice.

      Everyone wants to take what is ours and we are just going to smile nicely and say, thank you.

      What ever.

      They can go try to fix thier own country.

      We will fix our own.

      Oh... And I am sure they will like it even les when we're done fixing it.

    2. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "Well, it is hard to do this when your northern neighbor, the United States holds your nation's economy, government, and military in their back pocket."


      I said it before: Whining about your bigger, more stable and successful neighbor is NOT part of taking responsibility for their own country. Neither their whining nor your excuse-making will do one damn thing for Mexico.

    3. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "Perhaps, during the American Revolution (when Britain's property was being stolen by "Americans" the "illegal/traitorous" Americans should have "taken care of themselves""

      And we did. If Mexico would display 1/10000000000th of the resolve of the American Revolutionaries their problems would be long since solved.


      "Those French should have stayed home and kept out of it...."

      The French would not commit significant forces until we had demonstrated that we could stand and fight with the British ourselves.  We have demonstrated a willingness to help Mexico. It is up to Mexico to address the corruption, mismanagement, and human smuggling on their side of the border.

      "We want things "legal" in the U.S.....and we are founded on the most illegal of all acts that a person or group can perpetuate against their state...."

      Complete, off-topic nonsense.


      ""Oh, but it was because of no taxation without representation..."

      Can it....  The American colonists paid less in taxes than the other English subjects living in England....

      "But Britain was abusing its power.."

      And the same American elites that came to power after the Revolution were much of the same who made vast fortunes off illegal smuggling and the like..."

      If you think the American colonies should not have fought for independence that is your considerable problem. You can go to England (or wherever, I don't care) and apologize and beg them to take YOU back any time you want.

  32. odyovie profile image62
    odyovieposted 7 years ago

    this just goes to show the world that the USA is not entirely the saint it claims to be, the world is watching

  33. lovemychris profile image78
    lovemychrisposted 7 years ago

    But wait a minute! that's illegal! Who would that profit??

    Oh yeah...the prison industry..........lock up all the competition, sell the rest, have plenty of money for our "pet" projects...you know, like Iran/Contra....buying off Iraqi's, Afghani's, drug lords, politicians....yeah. we ARE quite capable aren't we?

    Gee, wasn't Bush great friends with ole Vincente?

    sly like a fox.
    and deadly as a scorpion.

    Ron Paul: "Dismantle the CIA."

  34. TMMason profile image62
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    It is good to be the top organize crime family at the table.

    Mail out the fishes to our critics.

    See who is funny then.

  35. lovemychris profile image78
    lovemychrisposted 7 years ago

    Crime doesn't pay.

    Honesty is the best policy.

    Never bite off more than you can chew.

  36. profile image61
    foreignpressposted 7 years ago

    woolman60: So what do you want? Open borders? Do we allow in anybody who wants to come here? This isn't about the Arizona law. It isn't about "boycotts." This is about people entering this country illegally.
       So I ask again: What are you -- and others who share your thinking -- advocating? And don't reply by saying we need immigration reform. That's too generalized a statement. Immigration reform will take Congress years to debate. In the meantime states like Arizona are facing a deperate situation.
       So to appease woolman60, let's open the borders to Mexico, Central America, and the world. Then see what happens.
       (By the way, Arnold's proposal to eliminate $90 billion of California state debt will mostly target welfare recipients. And the majority of those are Latino many of whom are in California illegally. So now Californians will start boycotting their own state to protest. This is over the top!).

    1. profile image61
      foreignpressposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      (Make that, over $19 billion -- not $90 b. But I'm still confounded as to what people want. We can't let in the world. Or can we?)

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Of course we can.  All we have to do is become another Somalia.  With the amount of shipping on our shores we could then afford it.  Living space might be a bit limited, but there's always Alaska!

    2. profile image0
      woolman60posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Foreignpress

      ""woolman60: So what do you want? Open borders? Do we allow in anybody who wants to come here? This isn't about the Arizona law. It isn't about "boycotts." This is about people entering this country illegally.""

      I never said what I wanted, you just assumed I did, I asked what you thought, and you gave your answer!!!

      It's a blame game and you know it, "debate, don't hate", and thanks for your comment and input.....

  37. wilderness profile image95
    wildernessposted 7 years ago

    I may be totally wrong here; if so, someone please correct me.

    Los Angelos has declared a boycott of Arizona, including travel and business with any Arizona based companies.  Is this not a form of interstate economic warfare and thereby banned by federal laws?

    Also, if the city I reside in does not use a low bidder there had better be a very good reason.  Failure to do so has resulted in more than a few lawsuits.  I don't really think that a statement to an Arizona business that "Well, Los Angelos politicians don't like the laws of your politicians so we won't hire you" would carry much weight in court.

  38. TMMason profile image62
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    I wish the USA would take of the sissy sally persona and start the whoopass already.

  39. notsostoopid profile image61
    notsostoopidposted 7 years ago

    I disagree with L.A completely. States have their own rights and they should be respected.  If L.A decided to legalize gay and lesbians getting married, and the majority of the citizens of Ca voted in favor of it, well than that state has the right to do so. Those who disagree with the passing of the law can move to another state.  I'm sure you would have no problem with that!  Yet Arizona tries to do what it thinks is best for it's people, and the rest of the country is all over them. It makes me furious!  I have strong convictions as to why the LAW SHOULD BE ENFORCED, but plain and simpleā€¦ Their state has the right to do what is best for their state as long as it does not go against the will of the people!!!(That is, the will of the people who are not breaking the law.)

  40. profile image61
    foreignpressposted 7 years ago

    There's a much bigger issue at stake here. I'm not sure what that is. Nobody on HP has figured it out. Nobody in the mainstream media -- including Fox News -- has determined what that issue is. But I get a creepy feeling that something big is looming in the shadows, and it has nothing to do racism, or profiling, or boycotts, or states' rights.
       The White House knows what this secretive mission is as do certain members of Congress but they aren't talking. Is this a prelude to the Amero and a North American Union? Certainly the potential collapse of the EEU wasn't anticipated by the powers in D.C.
       Regardless, the arguments presented by dissenters of SB1070 simply don't make any sense. Everybody is skirting the central issue, that tens of millions of people are entering this country illegally and then expect to be provided for.
       Greece, and now California, have proven that a culture based on entitlements simply does not work.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image79
      Evan G Rogersposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "a culture based on entitlements simply does not work"

      well said. Might i add, "government doesn't work" to that statement?

  41. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Sab....again, you try to twist an argument using your imagination and fail to see reality...

    Honduras recently showed what happens if you elect someone into office that "is not approved of."

    American trained School of the America's graduate/head of the Honduran Air Force creates a coup, arrests the nation's president in the middle of the night and flies him out of the country....to American dominated Costa Rica....

    And while marked as a blatantly illegal act, completely against the constitutional laws of Honduras, and while President Obama even claimed that the president would be restored.....what happened....regardless of what the Honduran people wanted?

    Did he ever come back to power?

    Was justice ever done?

    Who's weapons arm the Honduran Army? Where do their officers and staff get their training...from whom....

    One of my close neighbors, and my mailman, served in the U.S. Army in the late 1970's and early 1980's....and he has told me about what he was doing in Honduras....

    Human rights/labor rights workers are killed amid the "drug murders"...and are then not even mentioned....and, as before, if your government can get away with murdering, publicly, students and workers...

    Tlatelolco????

    and the world does not call out....and there are no protests by "free, democratic" nations like the U.S.....instead we continue on as if nothing happen, and still have our Olympic Games and such....then what can be done?

    In the past five years we saw the protests of teachers and students in Oaxaca, in southern Mexico, but what of this news?


    Americans profit from a weak Mexico....they make huge profits in maquiladoras....where workers can be treated in ways that are illegal here....

    Keep hiding behind your world of imagination Sab....  When one wears blinders it can be easy to see nothing...

    1. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Ai-ya~ the same old song and dance over and over, the same few topics shoehorned into every possible nook and cranny, apparently tied together with the crazy-string of conpsiracy theory.

      Tiresome.

  42. TMMason profile image62
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    You know mike... your right.

    I think America outght to stop hiding it. We ought to just go back to the way it was. We war, we take and we own.

    Just like ole Rome.

    All the second raters can pay us a hefty tax... and then we can have that socailist dream of a country the left wants.

    We would then be able to affor it. And.... it would shut up those who want to run around saying we are doing it behind everyone's back.

    Yup. I am all for American Military World Domination.

    And No. I am not kidding.

    We should subjagate the world, before our enemies do.

    1. Misha profile image76
      Mishaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Too late buddy, you are collapsing already. Pretty much like Rome collapsed. Or any other empire after it. smile

      1. Sab Oh profile image56
        Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        We are not an Empire so the comparison does not hold.

        1. lovemychris profile image78
          lovemychrisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          "Engdahl's newest book is reviewed below. Titled "Full Strectrum Dominance: Totalitarian Democracy in the New World Order," it discusses America's grand strategy, first revealed in the 1998 US Space Command document - Vision for 2020. Later released in 2000 as DOD Joint Vision 2020, it called for "full spectrum dominance" over all land, surface and sub-surface sea, air, space, electromagnetic spectrum and information systems with enough overwhelming power to fight and win global wars against any adversary, including with nuclear weapons preemptively.

          Other means as well, including propaganda, NGOs and Color Revolutions for regime change, expanding NATO eastward, and "a vast array of psychological and economic warfare techniques" as part of a "Revolution in Military Affairs" discussed below."

          "Full Spectrum Dominance: Totalitarian Democracy in the New World Order"
          Review of F. William Engdahl's book
          by Stephen Lendman
          Global Research, June 22, 2009

    2. Ralph Deeds profile image74
      Ralph Deedsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      An isolationist who advocates U.S. military domination of the world. Do I detect a minor inconsistency?

      1. TMMason profile image62
        TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Yeah I hear you Mish...

        And Ralph... I am a very conflicted individual.... my psyche suffers terribly. A constant state of advarsarial flux.

  43. Evan G Rogers profile image79
    Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago

    Man... Three government entities doing something retarded, and no one seems to see the forest for the trees.

    The federal government seems to think that immigrants are evil despite the fact that we're all immigrants.

    The state government of Arizona seems to think that it has the right to treat people like gutter-trash.

    And the City of L.A. seems to think that it'll make everyone in Arizona and LA better off by starving its citizens trade to Arizona and it seems to think that punishing innocent Arizonans  (amongst who are the illegal immigrants, the legal immigrants, the descendants of immigrants, and even white folk who disagree with racism).

    Gotta love government!!!

    Here's a hint: get rid of the government's power to act in such tyrannical ways and we'll all be better off.

    Let's make sure we understand things properly:

    1- LA is wrong to be doing such a thing: denying trade to all of Arizona hurts THE PEOPLE, not some sort of mystical entity known as "Arizona" - real people will suffer from this trade embargo, be it through loss of jobs or just through higher prices at the supermarket.

    2- The politicians in Arizona are trash: they don't have ANY right to treat people like garbage.

    3- The Federal government of these United States of America needs to open immigrants with open arms: who the hell is "Obama" or "Pelosi" or "Bush" or "Cheney" or any of these jackasses to be treating people who yearn for freedom and a good life like garbage? --- what? just because I came out of my mother on some hunk of soil known as "the USA", I have more of a right to freedom than some one else who was born in "mexico"?

    ...hooray for government...  ... ugh.

    1. Rafini profile image87
      Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      ????

      I am NOT an immigrant!  My ancestors were, but I was BORN in the USA by parents who were BORN in the USA, who were born by parents who were BORN in the USA.

      Face it, after legal citizenship is established descendants born in the new country are BORN as LEGAL Citizens of That Country!  At least that's the way it used to be....

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      And of COURSE you don't ANY right to treat the criminal who broke into your home, stole your TV and raped your daughter as garbage.  Instead you must feed him, clothe him, school him, and provide his medical care.  RIGHT!

      Of course we should welcome all who would come to America!  But who the hell are YOU to demand I give up the fruits of my hard labor to provide for them?  I am not garbage for you to do with and steal from as you please!

    3. TMMason profile image62
      TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I am not an Immigrant. And I am teired of hearing that.

      I was born here... as were my parents, and thier parents, and thiers.

      You can shove that... "We are all immigrants", shit.

      That is just another liberal hog swallow.... I am not an immigrant. I am an AMERICAN!!!.

      Too bad if you don't like it.

      ANd you seem to be forgeting the word ILLEGAL.... as in illegal immigrant.

      See how that works.

      ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

  44. earnestshub profile image88
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    lol lol lol
    Some have claimed that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
    I'd like to dispute that!
    Very funny and fast Ron! lol lol lol

    1. Rafini profile image87
      Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The lowest form of wit or anger in disguise?

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Denial?

      2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Bargaining?

      3. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Depression?

      4. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Acceptance?

        1. Rafini profile image87
          Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          lol  whassup?

  45. profile image61
    foreignpressposted 7 years ago

    "The Federal government of these United States of America needs to open immigrants with open arms . . ."
    ________________________________________________________________

    Once again, in my eternal quest for truth and absolute wisdom, I fail to see what that means.
       Welcome with open arms: Does that mean open our borders? And if so, to how many? Some people call these illegals refugees. But these "refugees" don't want tent cities and meals ready-to-eat only to return to their countries. They want the same rights, privileges, benefits, and quality of life that citizens have in the United States. And they demand this by merely stepping across an imaginary line.
       I am extremely perplexed that proponents of illegal immigration take this emotional "racist" stance on this issue yet offer no clear-cut solutions. Politicians in Arizona are not garbage. They have a sworn duty to protect and serve their constituents. Arizona is dealing with cross-border incursions by private armies, a rampant drug trade, and foreign nationals entering illegally at will. American citizens are being killed and kidnapped. And where's the feds, who enacted legislation that was supposed to prevent this?
       Now Calderon is having lunch with El Barack to protest Arizona's feeble attempts at defending itself. Yet Calderon and the Mexican Congress are fully responsible for this genocide. And genocide it is. This is little more than a systematic attempt to depopulate if not exterminate the lower classes of the Mexican society from the very country they love the most.
       Yet Calderon emerges as a hero while Gov. Jan Brewer is depicted as a criminal.
       If you are advocating open borders then have the guts to say so.

    1. Rafini profile image87
      Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I do not agree with the use of the terms 'genocide' and 'exterminate'. 

      The fact is the illegal immigrants come to this country, obtain fake 'legal' documentation, obtain employment with the fake 'legal' documentation, apply for and receive government assistance with additional fake 'legal' documentation, send money home to their family who either use it to cross the border themselves or use it to improve their lives.  All of this while over 26,000,000 legal citizens of the United States of America are currently unemployed.

      What the Mexican president does is encourage this behavior rather than attempt to prevent it.

      1. profile image61
        foreignpressposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, Calderon -- as did Fox -- "encouraged" these people to risk their lives, and the lives of their children, to flee Mexico for the United States. They provided maps and even water for the trek across the desert. Did the Mexican government use guns? No, at least not directly.
           The point is that Mexico can do much more to provide for its people. But with the highly corrupt Mexican Congress at the helm, dictated in large part by drug cartels and corporate interests, Mexico finds it more expedient to send their uneducated and poor to the United States. These people are then brainwashed by toxic activist groups like La Raza into believing that they have a right to be here without even stopping for a health checkup.
           The fact is that these Mexican poor are being used as pawns in a larger game of control and domination. Not only are they being worked at pittance wages by businesses large and small, they are being conditioned into being the next voting bloc.
           Yes, this is a systematic attempt to not only depopulate Mexico of its poor but to get these poor amnestied before the next Presidential election in 2012.
           Genocide isn't strong enough. Nor is my use of extermination. How many Mexican poor have died in cattle trucks, refrigerated semis, in packed vans? Why did these people flee a country they love? Just because they weren't rounded up as the Jews were by the Nazi, doesn't exonerate Calderon from the murder of his people. My disgust at the Mexican government knows no bounds.

  46. JON EWALL profile image44
    JON EWALLposted 7 years ago

    Rafini 22
    NO LAW IS ANY GOOD UNLESS THERE IS A PUNISHMENT ATTACHED FOR A VIOLATION.
    our government, president Obama, attoney general  and congress has not enforced the immigration laws to the fullest. Catch and release is not punishment for breaking the law. Illegals have no fear that our government will act only because there is enough support in Washington for their illegal activities.
    To start to correct the problem is to vote those who favor doing nothing to stop the illegal aliens out of office.

    1. Rafini profile image87
      Rafiniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      um, I understand that...?   Is this really directed to me?  and, if it is, may I ask why? 

      I agree 100% with Arizona.  For one thing, I want a job!!  A job that equals more than poverty level employment.

      1. profile image61
        foreignpressposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        No, none of this is directed at you Rafini nor anyone else in this forum. Sorry for my outburst. There are just too many people in positions of power who have taken too many liberties. And innocent people have died as a result. Unless, as Jon Ewall suggests, we take action in November and again in 2012, this situation will only worsen.

  47. freddykrueger profile image56
    freddykruegerposted 7 years ago

    Los angeles did a great job in boycotting arizona and their racist law.The papers,please law is racial profiling there is no doubt about it.I doubt police will ask for papers when a white person is being pulled over.To my disbelief i can't believe that 64% of americans support this type of law only tells me that racism is still rooted in this country.

    1. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Emotion without fact or reason is an empty waste of energy and usually leads to no good.

      The law, in fact, specifically prohibits racial profiling.

    2. JON EWALL profile image44
      JON EWALLposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      freddykrueger
      WE SHOULD BE ATTACKING OUR GOVERNMENT FOR NOT OBEYING THE LAW ( for at least 30 years )

      The AZ immigration Law is 10 pages long ,check it out on foxnews.com/yourworld The public is being fed all kinds of inaccuracies by the press, President  OBAMA, Union activists, and other Radical groups.

      Attorney General Holder made all kinds of comments when the AZ SB1070 was signed into law. Guess what ! Erick holder admitted before a government judicial committee on 5/13/ that he did not read the bill ( 10 pages ) as yet.
      I guess that's the way our elected officials do it in Washington, they read all the propaganda that the free press puts out to help them make decisions..

      How about Arizona boycotting California by not selling them water and electricity. Tit for tat, let them be in the dark and thirsty.

      They could go to a wine standard and maybe they can start pumping oil and create their own source of power.

      THE AZ SB 1070 GOES IN EFFECT JULY 29.

      FOR THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE LEGAL PAPERS,  '' ADIOS AMIGOS ''
      The politicians tell us that '' We are a Nation of the Rule of Law ''
      I guess the laws exclude them and other non citizens .

  48. Dink96 profile image61
    Dink96posted 7 years ago

    This law is flawed.  Granted, it is opening national and international dialog on immigration, it is flawed.  It puts our local police force on the front line as immigration offices, not as police officers.  Secondly, and most importantly, this law is patently racist.  We have a White Power Sheriff Joe Arpaio who has openly said "round up first, sort out legal status later." 

    This is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.  Americans need to WAKE UP before it's too late.  So after Gov. Brewer signs this idiotic law, she wants us to approve state tax hikes for public safety and schools.  A very bitter pill.

    1. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "It puts our local police force on the front line as immigration offices, not as police officers.  Secondly, and most importantly, this law is patently racist. "


      If the federal government did their job the local police wouldn't have to and Arizona would not be forced to do it for them. And the law is not "racist" no matter how many Eric Holders who haven't read the thing cry that it is.

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I would have to disagree, Dink.  A while back we had the same national guard that is in Iraq patrolling the streets of New Orleans - a police job.  Now we will have police enforcing a federal immigration law.  You use the tools that are available and as the federal tools are made unavailable the local police is what's left.

      "Patently racist" - it is not racist to allow police to enforce a federal law.  While I expect at least some racism from the police doing the actual stops, the new law itself cannot be racist - it expressly forbids any racist activity and any officer that acts in a racist manner is guilty of violating the law.

      On the bright side, the new law may eliminate the necessity for further monies for public safety and schools as 10's of 1000's  leave the area.

    3. JON EWALL profile image44
      JON EWALLposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      hubbers
      The subject is illegal immigration and the present federal laws
      The federal government's irresponsibility in not enforcing the law
      The politicians say '' we are a nation of the rule of law''. The US constitution spells out the rights of their citizens.
      Break the law and you will be punished according to the law. What is racist and why are certain people exempt from breaking the law?
      What Arizona is saying to those who enter Arizona is that if you break our laws you will be punished according to the laws of Arizona.
      According to the constitution, states have the authority to make law for citizens of the state. Elected official voted into office by the citizens can vote to make law.
      If you or anyone don't like the laws on one state they are free to go to any other state.
      The premise is '' you are presumed innocent until you are found guilty'' by due process of the law.
      The Arizona law will start to be enforced on July 29th. That gives any illegal sufficient time to '' get out of town ''.70% of Arizonians support the law .
      The federal government's refusal to enforce the law is inexcusable and indefensible. The government is the real problem not the state of Arizona.

  49. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    Sab....I love how you continue to publicly show your own hypocrisy.

    1. Sab Oh profile image56
      Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      How so?

  50. mikelong profile image75
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    There's an article that I think you should read Sab...

    "From Coolie to Model Minority" by Jan Junn

 
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