What are your thoughts on abortion, and why?
I really haven't formulated much of an opinion on it, but I'm curious to see what you guys think.
This is a touchy subject, so let's try to be mindful of others while in discussion.
I prefer to be mindful of the human life that's inside a woman's womb than to be mindful of adults who should KNOW that abortion is the taking of a life.
Abortion is murder, with the FEW exceptions where it's a decision between two persons's lives.
But, still murder?
Therefore, what you say is right and everyone else is wrong.
If you accept for one, you accept it for all.
F**k the double standard BS!
Either you are against it or not.
Wish you people be realistic.
Agreed and threads keep popping up with the same statements and comments.
Hey I have no judgement as to your beliefs, so show the same respect to someone elses/
Do you know how crowded death row would be if abortion was murder? Will you dictate someone else's punishment based on what you righteously judge?
But here's what's cool, no one is jailing you for accessory to murder when clearly you are.
Isn't accessory to murder when you are aware a murder is being taken place yet you do nothing.
If I truly was in a position I felt or witnessed to a murder, I would file it with the police so justice may be closer to being served.
Where do you file?
Hey Kimberly, nice to see you.
I haven't been a witness to a murder, however, should I? I will report it to my local police and let them handle it.
It is a LAW in the U.S. that if you see a crime in progress, you are to call the police. Failure to do so, can possibly result in your arrest, and imprisonment, under the Law of failure to report a crime.
Either conspiracy or accomplice, will work to get you convicted.
Btw- I do hope you are doing well.
Mostly this (common position of anti-abortionists) shows the faults in the argument. If the focus is on the rights of the foetus then it does not matter how it came about, if you believe one thing you have to accept the consequences. If you claim abortion is murder then you are murdering someone else for the 'sins' of others.
The attitude of many on abortion reminds me of an old Alka Seltzer commercial:
"Plop, plop, fizz, fizz, oh what a relief it is!"
Abortion is a quick fix. If you are old enough to hop in the sack, or a dark alley, then you are old enough to accept the consequences of bearing and respecting another human life.
Have you ever had an abortion?
I can imagine it's not an easy decision for anyone.
these are dying words, i fear.
i knew a woman who had FIVE ABORTIONS. she was no child...she was like 30, and had bedded almost every engineer in the department we worked for. the guys assumed because we hung out together they might get lucky with me but they quickly learned we were not alike in a lot of ways.
that is one of the reasons i drifted away from her...her complete disregard for all the babies she was slaughtering.
frankly i am tired of adults whining about the situations they put themselves in.
what about the innocents who have no voice, hmm?
thank you for your post, Goldenpath.
My opinion, for what it's worth.
1st term? womans choice.
NO abortion after that!
I think its a Woman's right whether she wants to bring another human being into existence.
Bringing a human being into the world today is a huge decision.
I would sincerely hope that a Woman would make that decision before she became pregnant. Pragmatically we have inexperienced teens and rape victims to consider.
The sanctity of human life should be held to the highest degree.
I don't believe that abortion should be promoted or substantially subsidized or come uninformed as to the emotional distress that inevitably comes with having one, and afterwords.
I think the father should have "some rights" and some say-so and in the least a voice.
Abortion is a sensitive issue that can not be discussed without personal feelings, beliefs and thoughts coming into play. I really feel it is the private decision for a woman to make. Although somone may or may not feel that abortion is right, is it really necessary to force those beliefs on others.
Killing a human is murder. The question is, "what is a human?" A fertilized egg? No. A 6 month fetus? Yes. Somewhere in between the egg crosses a line and becomes a human. I'm not smart enough to determine where that line is.
I don't think anyone can determine where that line is.
We have to ask though, why anyone would want an abortion? Sometimes it's because of carelessness, but sometimes it's because of an unwanted act like rape.
Would that be considered murder?
It has already been determined, science says life begins conception. So now we don't believe science?
No, I'm just not aware of that definition of life.
What does science base that definition on? Why is it defined that life begins at conception? What is so special about conception?
The definition that I was aware of is that technically, all cells are alive.
Unless you want to DEFINE life as beginning at conception, I would question that. A spermatazoa moves on it's own power, with a purpose. It responds to stimuli and can reproduce. I'd call that life.
A woman feels life growing within her, perhaps it is only the woman that wants to feel that life, but I don't think so, it is instinctual, and the woman that aborts that life in the interest of her own self, has killed her child. Simple.
What happens though, when it's the result of rape?
Having the child may ruin the lives of both the parent and the child.
And just how many abortions are the result of Rape in this country? Extremely important to your attempt at a point. Some women choose to have their child, some don't. Choice, is very important in that extreme situation, which is very much in the minority.
I don't wish to see choice taken away, but I cannot stomach the gross and reckless disregard for the unborn child by the liberal politicoes of this country.
But would it be more correct to raise the child if it's inconvenient or unsuitable to both the child and parent(s), as opposed to having an abortion?
No, she has aborted a zygote or embryo or early term fetus. She has not killed a child, possibly a potential child, but not a child. You are misusing the English language in the interest of inflammatory anti-abortion propaganda.
Life begins at conception, an enchoate fetus is as much alive and a person, as a 6 month fetus.
Abortion is murder. And should be legal for very few and very specific reasons, only.
As for rape.... do we punish the children for thier parents crimes?
Why do you say life begins at conception, though? What makes life so unique to begin at conception?
But it's not the crime of both parents, it's the crime of one of them (almost always the male). Do we punish the mother for the father's crime?
Is it a punishment for the fetus at all?
It is not so unique to begin at concepotion all life begins at conception. The right to Life though is the first of the rights enshrined in the constitution.
The Right to life supercedes the right to privacy, which is where SCOTUS said the right to abortion lies.
And no it isn't both parents fault.... and it would not be the child's fault. So why punish the baby for the father's actions?
Is that a lil clearer?
Not really. Cells which have never been conceived are considered alive...
Yeah, but when they join, when they click, in the miracle of conception, which is the onset of human life......they are a new and separate life from the living cells of their mother and the helpful sperm of their father.
There is no law that says you can't amputate the living cells of an arm or leg, the 'living' cell comparison does not work.
Are you saying that because there is potential for human life, that killing a fetus is murder?
Why don't you check the law? You'll find that abortion is not murder.
There are clearly pro's and con's for both sides of the fence. For endless reasons.
I personally, if we are stating our opinion, am 100% pro choice and see no rationale in restricting a woman's choice, based on other peoples judgements or views,
Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought), and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). As the loss of a human being inflicts enormous grief upon the individuals close to the victim, as well as the fact that the commission of a murder deprives the victim of his or her existence, most societies both present and in antiquity have considered it a most serious crime worthy of the harshest of punishment. A person convicted of murder is typically given a life sentence or even the death penalty for such an act. A person who commits murder is called a murderer ; the term murderess, meaning a woman who murders, has largely fallen into disuse
cut and paste wikipedia
You do not need "intent" to have commited murder in the America.
In the United States of America they do not have to prove intent to prove murder.
that is just a legal fact Cag..
Are you a lawyer, dog or just getting off on chewing the bones?
did you see earlier post
I thought this as good as place
to break the news to you
Hi Kimberley - you woke up grumpy today then go get 'em girl !
Intent is not a requisite for murder in the U.S..
Maybe where ever you come from, but not here.
No TMMason, but they do need to prove motive.
I do love you
I think this most fitting place
to be continued/////////////////////////
Intent does not mean motive in the case of murder. Intent (intentional) means it was not an accident, that it was planned in some way. It was pre-premeditated.
Manslaughter, or culpable homicide as it is known in Scotland, is murder but not pre-meditated, more that someone has died as a result of your actions but you hadn't planned in advance for them to die.
Abortion has to come under murder, no matter which side of the fence you are sitting on.
depends on your lawyer buddy, and yes can be argued in the US
Please do not take me for someone who is someone you know. Thank you. Nice game
and once again HP threads bring out the best teamwork in people
Bring i, bored tonight, and address me with respect.
I thank you again
Correct. Anti-abortion propagandists misuse the English language.
I absolutely respect the right of an evangelical to the belief or opinion that life begins when a single sperm penetrates the ovum. Any fundamentalist is absolutely entitled NOT to get an abortion.
The problem lies in forceing their superstitions on people who don't subscribe to their beliefs.
The law of the land gives women absolute control over their bodies in the first trimester - and allows states to restrict heavily abortions in the last trimester. This is as it should be.
100% pro-choice, not so big on abortion. It's legal, and will stay that way. You want to take away personal freedoms, will just target more. Saying the gvt has say over your body, who would you have to ask for tats or peircings? Gain weight, you'll be at the gvt fat farm, to avoid hurting health care. Dress codes maybe? How long's your hair?
Sounds ridiculous? Start taking personal freedoms, and where does it stop? Highly plausible, saying you have the right to force women into your line of thinking. Other extremists see other things they could change as well.
Don't say that. Cags will beat the crap out of me.
You okay tonight? Good to see you around.
Nice to blow off some steam, really good to see you too
Very nice. Not.
Comparing the freedom to have a tattoo to the sanctity of life is nonsense.
You actually think the right would stop at just banning abortion? How many other freedoms have you all raled against, that you want changed? Gays? Attire being appropo for society? Certain music is harmful for peaceful unity? It doesn't stop with you people, just like doing the opposite doesn't stop for the left. You're all hazards.
Let's say I'm aborting tomorrow, why shouldn't, let's assume it was a violent rape. has put me in acute post traumatic stress and will physically disable me for 9 months to deliver a sex offended daughter
But you call this murder?
P;ease do explain
I am most intrigued and Brenda your views are crystal clear
Brenda thinks you are a breeding animal wihout rights from the moment of conception.
Did the baby rape you?...
Your mental health poses no eminant threat to your life.... so the baby's right to life supercedes your dis-comfort.
Rape is a difficult one, and not one many women face thankfully. True it is not the baby's fault its existence came about through an act of violence, but it would be a hardened and unfeeling person who would force that mother to carry this child to term.
They tried to fight a family here whose 9 year old was molested by a man and got pregnant. Who in their right mind would force a 9 year old to have a child? Sick shi*s
IzzyM about rape- "it would be a hardened and unfeeling person who would force that mother to carry this child to term."
Sarah Palin was asked as a candidate for governor how she would react if her (minor then) daughter became pregnant as the result of rape. "I would chose life." was her answer.
"She would choose life"
God, what kind of uncaring person would care about an unborn baby? Wait, what?
So, regardless of what her daughter wanted, she would force her to have that child. How exactly do you force women to give birth when they don't want to? Tie them to the bed until they deliver?
Actually, I think they generally have the baby and give it away, in a good and decent world, women that is, not 9 year old girls, which is a completely different matter, and I'd really like to know how many 9 year olds are fertile, if a lot, feed your family a vegan diet, if a few, the argument is bogus.
Long, Long ago there was real reason for abortion, as women were targeted as criminal if they became pregnant out of wedlock, if they were even known for consorting with a man out of wedlock. Odd, how the times have twisted and changed.
Front page of the arizona republic newspaper. Ice cream truck driver. never call me a liar. I don't say a damn thing I can't back up. November 07, phoenix. west side. Mexican girl. bite me.
so is a foetus a baby or not in your opinion? if it is, then 9 year old mother or not it is the right of a baby to live as much as the mother I would guess?
people need to man up and do the right thing. how many women in the throes of passion think 'oh i can always get an abortion if i get pregnant', then enjoy a few moment's pleasure.
plus no one is considering the male part of the equation here. ever stop to think the man wants the baby? what does the woman do then? say 'it's my body and i'll abort if i want to'? is her body just a vessel without a conscience?
people call it a fetus, zygote, whatever they wish to make their arguments more palatable.
i prefer the term "unborn baby".
and yes i have said in the past that i feel a woman should have the right to choose only because without the option of a safe procedure, they could die or be butchered but let's call it what it IS, ok? -- severing the life of your unborn child from your womb.
plus no one is considering the male part of the equation here. ever stop to think the man wants the baby? what does the woman do then? say 'it's my body and i'll abort if i want to'? is her body just a vessel without a conscience?
Thats exactly what many of them do.
How have you been Cosette?
Cosette, I see we're in agreement on this issue!
Bingo - Uninvited Writer sees it perfectly. Note if you research Sarah's answer to the question about her minor daughter getting pregnant as a result of rape - Sarah never suggests she ouwld consult her daughter to see how SHE felt about it - and she never indicated thatt the morning-after pill was an option. Sarah decided for her daughter 'She would choose life."
IMO, Sarah can choose for herself. Legally, she may be able to force her opinion on a minor child without consideration. That's reveling of Sarah. I don't want her forcing her opinion on my 2 daughters and THAT'S the core of the discussion.
I think that would fall under the valid dilemma of having to decide which life to save. A nine-year-old girl isn't likely to be physically able to carry a child to term, even if she were physically capable of becoming pregnant; and no, I wouldn't want a child like that to have to carry a child inside her womb.
And as far as rape in general, I believe the "morning-after" pill should be offered to the victim, but only after she has reported the rape immediately and been examined and evidence of it actually being a rape is proven without reasonable doubt. I dunno the laws or which states offer that help, but it would, to me, be a valid way of handling rape cases.
This is not a valid dilemma - that is double speak for avoiding the issue. Either the foetus is a person with its won rights or it is not - circumstances of other people are nothing to do with it. Or the foetus is not a person and does not have rights.
Trying to blur this kind of distinction does not help the actual debate - it is an impossible situation, even after the rape - and this only occurs if you choose the pro-life option. It is a strong argument against your position.
I am afraid you are so far from the truth you would never understand. Sad. But most don't. Not centering you out.
Dang I'm hungry
last comment I'll make let's never take anyones freedom of choices away, as we are not the ones who I believe should be rightly taking them, and if no God, let each day be as it may, we all have a negative or positive reaction for our reactions, can't we just agree to helping one another not shunning.
Well I am surely no Princess and this is no fairy tale, so I guess it shall always remain extreme. But as of today it is legal, so the majority has judged. Fact. Can't go back, let's move forward.
Ralph, have you ever seen a 4D ultrasound of a four-month-old fetus? It looks like a baby! It has eyebrows, eyelashes, and can even suck its thumb. Where should the line be drawn with abortion, in your opinion? The first trimester? The second? Any time the woman decides?
It is a Baby! It doesn't just look like one! And it is a Baby from the time it's conceived! It is life, Ralph worries about social justice? until you control rampant immorality and thoughtless conception and casual abortion, you will never accomplish so-called social justice where it really counts.
I don't think what they want is "social justice" I think its called total control.
Immorality by your definition and that of the Catholic church, but not for the majority of Americans. You are trying to impose your morality on others. I support your freedom to do that, but you should acknowledge what you are doing. As a man who will never face an abortion decision I'm happy to leave the decision to individual women who do or may face the decision and to a majority of women rather than men such as the Pope or the parish priest or bishop.
Habee, what is your position wrt a zygote, an embryo or a one month old fetus? Where would you draw the line? As a male, I've never faced the issue. I am not an advocate of abortions. I am an advocate of measures to reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortions that result--comprehensive sex education in public schools, easy access to contraceptives and more resources for adoption facilities and organizations.
Ralph, you answered my questions with questions, but I'll answer yours. I am generally against abortion, but I would not like to see Roe v Wade overturned because if a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy, she'll find a way to do it - legal or not. We'd wind up with a lot of septic abortions and dead women - especially poor women who couldn't afford a doctor to do a safe, illegal abortion. BUT...I think late-term abortions are criminal - unless the mother's life is in danger. Once the fetus can feel pain and react to its environment, it should not be aborted. It's not just "a mass of cells" at this point. And yes, I know the difference between a zygote, an embryo, and a fetus. They do teach stuff like that in biology classes in the South, believe it or not.
Okay, Ralph, now answer my questions, please. I'm honestly interested in your opinion on this subject.
Oh, and by the way, I totally agree with you about sex education, contraceptives, and adoption! As I've said before, I think we should fill the high school lockers with condoms!
1. No I haven't seen a 4D ultrasound of a 4-month fetus, but I accept your description.
2. Where should the line be drawn? My position is close to yours. I would prohibit late term abortions under most circumstances. The rest should be left up to the woman and her doctor and anyone else she wants to discuss the circumstances with. By circumstances I mean all relevant factors--the health of the mother and other reasons and factors bearing on her decision including her ability to care for a baby and consideration of having the baby and putting it up for adoption if she is unable to care properly for a baby.
the fetus doesn't even develop a nervous system until at least week 10. for some, the reality of producing a child is all too impossible.
sometimes it is just not an option. and even if it were - we have progressed to the point where it is scientifically viable and safe.
now, i'm a firm believer that once the neurons start to develop and pain can be felt - the decision to abort becomes a bit hazy. approaching the second trimester maybe there should be stipulations to govern it (as there are)
all in all it does and should come down to choice. only in the situation can a woman evaluate whether or not she is ready to even go through with the pregnancy - and it should remain that way.
you, nor anyone else (especially that brenda woman) should be able to throw a blanket over the issue and peg it as "murder"
I see you just joined 4 hours ago, apparently for the specific purpose of trying to defend the "right" of a pregnant woman to kill her unborn baby.
Psssst-----I'm "that brenda woman" you so oddly mentioned immediately, and you came in and bumped a thread from two weeks ago, and I'm just curious----
Exactly what number are you in the tag team? LOL
I was fertile at the age of nine. Girls in developed countries are experiencing ovulation at younger and younger ages.
Really?? So you were the child precursor of the 60's to the early onset ovulation of today? Wow. Speechless. Are you participating in studies?
No, but I began having periods when I was eight years old. It was awful! One of my best friends started when she was ten. Maybe it was something in the water here??
You may be more right than you think. There were a series of issues that I remember about hormones in meat, milk, all animal products in fact - they were followed by stories of river fish changing sex because of chemicals in the water that mimic or affect hormones.
I don't remember detail I am afraid but I am sure it can be researched
There have been a couple of cases in the news lately of six year old girls getting pregnant.
I saw that, too, Bill. Sad that these kids have periods at such an early age.
Wow... A Can of Worms this one isn't it?
Perhaps this subject should be addressed to the pope along with the obvious questions on contraception and the rights of women to choose their own life outcomes.
Take the religious influences out of that equation and we are left with pro-choice. That is a non judgmental position and not prone to influence from those clearly different in their own often negatively emotive views.
Personally, I'm generally against abortion, however I believe that people should have the right to choose for themselves.
i am against abortion for normal couples..they should opt for preventive measures to avoid pregnancy rather than going for abortion..but in cases where medical science is sure that child born would have major mental or physical challenge or if child is risked on being born it can risk mother's life or in cases of rape , decision of mother should be final..
I have seen argument around the idea of aborting foetus that will produce a severely disabled baby. If you are anti-abortion how do you deal with this? It is still an unborn baby in your terms, isn't it the same issue as mercy killing disabled people - that nobody could agree with.
i am anti abortion for normal cases as i said ..cases where couple get abortion done because they dont want kids or they simply didnt expect kid and such things..i dont oppose abortion in three situations which i mentioned above..a)threat to mother's life 2) severe threat to child's life or ability to live normal life after birth (mental and physical) 3) rape of woman ...but again in all this cases final call should be of mother and not of society...
Yes - that is the reasoned mid-position I guess. But the question is in the argument for and against, the central idea is that a foetus is or is not a baby. If it is a baby then it has its own rights and it is not the right of the mother or anyone else to kill it - even in such circumstances. I am interested mainly because it is the difficult questions that show up the reality of an argument usually.
Having an abortion is the same as walking up to someone on the street and shooting them for no aparent reason!!!
In this, as in all things, there is the secular view and the faith view.
Neither should interfere with the other.
A person of faith will know that any interference in the conception of a yet unborn life from the point of conception is killing that life.
It's not 'murder' because our secular society has agreed that killing unborn life is what they want to be ale to do if circumstances dictate that it's more convenient or appropriate in the mothers opinion.
But it is killing a viable life, and although it's not murder in societies eyes, it is in God's because He reserves the right to determine lifespan in we humans.
My experience from both sides of the divide is that abortion always produces personal problems for the 'mother'which sometimes take years to work out.
Inevitably at some point in time they realize the reality of their actions and have distress about what they did.
If they have buried the problem and deny it exists, it still surfaces but simply in other ways, and their internalized and repressed guilt corrodes from the inside.
In my opinion, we should retain the right for abortion to be legally performed in limited situations, i.e. where the woman would resort to illegal abortion, if denied, but FULL & PROPER counselling should be offered to ensure that killing our future children would be a last resort rather than a lifestyle choice.
Unfortunately the main counselling offered is being promoted by the pro life and pro choice camps who fire their missiles from behind barricades and seem more concerned with winning their argument than trying to care for both mother and child in a complicated situation that needs personal and sensitive management.
My view on abortion is that I'd like to abort the itch on my behind when it occurs. That would ROCK!
It is clearly a topic that has very little gray area, as some before me have stated, you are clearly for it or against it. Personally, I could never agree to an abortion for my immediate family. However, it is also clear that court cases and spreme court decisions have declared abortion in early pregnancy is based on "right to privacy." Roe v. Wade was decided primarily on the Ninth Amendment, a part of the Bill of Rights. The 9th amendment basically prevents interpretation of the constitution in such a way as to limit individual rights.
Funny...anyone who disagrees with Brenda and other conservatives is on some sort of tag team...must be similar to the gay agenda....
Yes, all the conservatives on here are just like minded individuals. Couldn't possible have liberals who are like that now could we? I'm getting tired of people being attacked (on either side) by saying they somehow get together and decide what to post.
while married my x aborted what would have been my third child without my consent or knowledge . why? because she wanted a divorce not another baby. she had no problem raking me over the coals and holding my two sons hostage from me and extorting money from me while doing so all with the courts consent. i resent every single cent i paid during those years . but i would have payed a million dollars to have the one she thru away. my sons are grown now they love me and hate their mom . why? its because i never treated them like property or a choice. i always let them know that they are a gift . the best present ive ever got. abortion to me reaks of slavery.
I wish we all could say whether we were for it or against it here without any attack.
My opinion for myself and I speak for myself, is I could never do it (lets take rape out of the picture).
I could not live with myself straight out. Even though my life has had extremities and trials beyond imagination, I am glad I was not aborted(even though I was not wanted) and had the chance to experience life.
I agree with you too personally.
However, I don't believe it is my right to tell someone not to.
I agree with you too UW. It is not my place. We all should make our own decisions in life.
That is a very fair way to look at it. I abhor the thought of it and consider it killing. Abortions are legal and I believe that gives any woman to right to have one without my acceptance. That is the way it is.
However, a few questions remain........
1.If it were up to a vote, would you vote to allow them or to forbid them?
2.If the government pays for contraception, should they have to pay for abortions?
3.If you sincerely believe that abortion is murder, should you have to pay for them?
But then you go back to the past when only rich women could afford to get abortions and poor women either had to have the child or go to a cheap backdoor abortionist.
Or go to the present. Anyplace abortion is prohibited in the world, it's not prohibited for the wealthy who can fly to where it IS safe and legal. Any prohibition is a brohibition for the porr - the rich KNOW they are exmpt so they can exhibit all the false piety they want to flaunt.
HUBBERS of both sexes
ABORTION PRO OR CON
IF YOU DON’T WANT TO GET PREGNANT
Avoid sexual intercourse contact
IF YOU DON’T WANT CHILDREN
You get sterilized ( male or female )
IF YOU DON’T CHOSE TO GET PREGNANT
You take the pill
IF YOU WANT TO GAMBLE
IF YOU GET PREGNATED
You gambled but it is possible that nature may not bring a birth ( a miscarriage )
IF YOU ARE PREGNATED
Should you decide to have an abortion without a conscious decision
as to the health of the mother or child
YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO YOUR MAKER. .
WHEN CANDIDATE OBAMA WAS ASKED THE QUESTION
‘' WHEN DOES LIFE BEGIN ‘’ HIS ANSWER WAS
‘’ THAT’S ABOVE MY PAY SCALE ‘’ TRUE OR FALSE
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