"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."
–Pat Robertson, calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez
This happened a few years ago - I'm not presenting it as this week's news. But where was the widespread condemnation of a famous evangelical who is still on TV preaching hate.
Thank God no one at State listened to him!....
I am a Christian, and I have to agree here; He is to far right, and very wrong.
I agee, where was the condemnation? I am not a big fan of Chavez, though the Venezuelan Constitution is a beautiful piece of progressive governance. I am not a fan mostly because he has pretty much negated, by political and military will, said constitution. However, I don't believe he has done anything to warrant the United States assasinating him and, in any case, who is Pat Robertson to call for it?
Pat Robertson's time to fade into obscurity is long overdue.
Since when is Pat Robertson Christianity?
Seriously- you're off your rocker here. Pat Robertson is NOT Christianity. You're title is very misleading. I'm extremely disappointed in you with this attempt to be confrontational towards Christians and their religion. Bad form, really, really, really, bad form.
IE - To understand this post, read the post from 2 days ago 'Islam Calls For Killing People - again.' The suggestion there was that Islam is a violent religion (all of Islam) because of a lone nut. I flipped that coin over - Christianity has their nuts, and mainstream Christians ignore them.
That's what's happening with the imam who issued the edict - he's being ignored just like Robertson - and I put the issue in CONTEXT!
No! I should not have too. Your title has NOTHING to do with Christianity. It's been flagged Doug for it's title and format.
Two wrongs don't make a right Doug. I'm done with this conversation, so say what you like, but TWO WRONGS don't make it right!
If some guy calling on muslims to kill someone can lead to a national hatred-campaign against muslims...
then some guy calling on christians to kill someone should also lead to a national hatred-campaign against christians.
On this, Doug and I agree.
And to argue against intimatEvolution: "No! I shoud not have too" ... you shouldn't have to read something? really? that's your argument?
yes i agree that with you doug and your friend but we have know where and who lights the fire
Theres nothing wrong in this post & absolutely nothing to flag!!
IE - I dont think ur flaggin is going effect this thread any sooner.
I appreciate Dougs effort to bring such wonderful topic in front of the anti-islamic Children of God.
That's totally incorrect. You see, Christianity is defined by... Christ's teachings, which are available in any language, for all to see, and there is NOBODY which has any authority to "interpret", "explain", or any way has any authority whatsoever, to adjust or influence your understanding. If someone claims they have innate authority, other than reason and demonstrated knowledge, then they are NOT Christian.
Islam is not defined by the words of "God". IT is defined by self proclaimed authorities, which are self referential. Their authority is defined as "I said it, and I am authority because I say I am" and if you disagree, thugs stone you to death, shoot you, or just lop your head off.
This is why there is so much inter-faction violence among Muslims, because they literally claim the authority to kill those who fail to agree.
Compariing that to Christianity is nothing other than complete and utter intellectual meltdown.
YOU are claiming authority to determine who is and who is not Christian. YOU are also, in doing so, claiming the authority to interpret the Bible in accordance with this view. Additionally, quite a bit of what is in the Koran is also in the Bible. Are you aware about half of that book is the same as about half of your book? Are you are that the same prophets are listed, with the same stories? Are you are that YOUR book calls for the killing of non believers, raping of children, ripping open of pregnant women, and also the God of YOUR book also claims he is god because he said he is. The hypocrisy is priceless here.
So burning of witches, massacring of aztechs & native Americans, calling for crusades, killing all non-believers is intellectual meltdown then?
Babble has more violent passages than the Quran. If u have doubt then try googling the statistics.
& Who told u that - "Islam is not defined by the words of "God"?? Do you have any idea wat u r talking about?
Each & every single word of yours is a mesmerizing example of hypocrisy & religious biasness. Try to be rational from now on!
It is as ridiculous to suggest that christianity wants to assasinate anyone when pat robertson does or doesn't as it is to say all liberals are blind in making poilitically correct statements bordering on ignorance .
I find the strong reactions to this thread title interesting. They seem to be arguing, with force, that you cannot judge an entire religion based on the views espoused by an extremist. I rather expected them take the opposite position and agree with your sarcastic title. To be fair, a few may not have seen the other thread.
I am in no way condoning assassination. I do have to ask, though: are Pat Robertson's words actually any more hateful than Hugo Chavez'?
Chavez is a communist dictator thug, who has actually had people butchered. Can't really say that about Robertson, no matter what goofy crap comes out of his mouth.
Communism not only "calls" for killing people, it goes right out and does it.
never heard of a dictator being elected president and reelected by the people.
What on earth makes you think an election in Venezuela gives anyone a choice?
What makes you think elections in America gives anyone choice?...
Because they do. The outcome is not pre-determined. We know that "elections" in Venezuela and Iran, for instance, serve no purpose, as the outcome has been chosen long before the election takes place, by the people in power.
Russian election is much more worse than Iran's. I wonder why the Americans never bother about Putin or Medvedev's election when it is crystal clear that its just Putin's puppet govt. Rather, USA will always object against countries like Venezuela or Iran's election system.
Some interesting point to be noted:
1. Both Iran & Venezuela are oil rich countries.
2. The previous victims were Iraq & Afghanistan, the former is oil rich while the latter is strategically important for importing oil.
3. Both Saddam & Laden used to be Best friends with USA. Now both of them are Doomed!!
4. USA created Laden to use him against Soviets. At that time he was considered a freedom fighter, now he is a terrorist.
I wonder why USA always gets involved with oil issues or with oil related countries? What we often forget that these Iranis are not dumbasses. Historically & culturally they are far more richer than America. They have more political & strategical experience in the context of history than the Americans. They must know how to elect a leader whether in a democratic way or not is their problem & America needs to oil (ofcourse with its own oil) its own arse for the sake of world peace.
We had people butchered too. Communism, by definition, does NOT call for the killing of people at all actually. In practice, several of the proponents have killed lots of people, but the philosophy does not. The manifesto does not. Simply saying someone is a communist and so he is evil, thus justifying assassination is juvenile. Capitalism has killed people too. We, America as a nation, have killed people...lots and lots and at times, for very evil reasons too. A political philosophy alone is not justification for murder.
First, it isn't hate. Second, assassination of would-be dictators is definitely a worthy means of defending foreign countries from their own worst enemies.
Frankly, Chavez should be arrested, tried, and then executed for crimes against the people of Venezuela, but then, that's just an intellectual analysis of his behavior. Liberals rather worship him.
"Liberals rather worship him."
I don't "rather worship him." Why don't you let liberals like us speak for ourselves? There's some middle ground between wanting to assassinate Chavez and worshiping him.
I see you missed the drooling praise for his "progressive" constitution.
The man is a tyrant, worthy of death.
And all the deaths and imprisonings and other oppression he has committed to remain in power and force the people to suffer is such that it long passed the threshold in my judgement. If I were president, I would order his assassination.
Then you are a scumbag and worse than he is, considering he hasn't ordered one on any of our presidents.
Tell me, what about all of the deaths, imprisonment, and other oppression that WE have committed?
Plain and simple, you aren't from Venezuela, so your opinion of whether or not the guy should be leader of not doesn't mean more than what I just left in the toilet, rockstar.
You apparently don't get out much. The condemnation was pervasive, both inside and outside the evangelical community, just as it was when the late Jerry Falwell said that the liberals were responsible for 9/11. Consider listening across the spectrum instead of just what you want to hear.
Nice deflection, Doug.
Terrorists have riddled our land with dead bodies and fear, and you're going off on a tangent to try to blame Christians again for it.
I don't watch the 700 Club; have seen it maybe a couple times. I wasn't aware that Robertson had said that.
I wonder if Chavez is a dictator...
Apparently Robertson thought he was/is. And calling for the romoval of a dictator so that freedom can reign in a nation of oppressed people is much different from declaring jihad on innocent citizens. Which is, of course, the comparison you're trying to make, Doug. And it doesn't wash!
Robertson was wrong, but your insinuation is much more wrong, Doug.
Besides, Doug, you don't have to worry about the well-being of Mr. Chavez. His "pal" Obama will keep him safe from the bad bad American Christian influence.
"And calling for the romoval of a dictator so that freedom can reign in a nation of oppressed people is much different from declaring jihad on innocent citizens. Which is, of course, the comparison you're trying to make, Doug. And it doesn't wash!"
So the evil a religous leader calling for murder is conditional - it depends on the denomination of the leader and the perceived 'evil' of the target. THAT doesn't wash!
Robertson has made plenty of equally moronic pronouncements. I'd look up a few but I'm too lazy. Suffice it to say he's not worthy of being called a Christian any more than Osama bin Laden is representative of the Muslim faith.
Well, thanks for noticing. And for completely disassembling his argument. And, he'll have a hard time arguing with you, because he thinks you're on "his side".
You are free to judge Robertson by his words, if you are determined to do so. But you can't judge anyone else, nor what Roberson claimed, by his words. I never had any use for the man, and considered him terribly misguided, in that I don't think any advocate for Salvation should attempt to use his influence for partisan political purposes.
Robertson ran for president at least once, that I recall, which put him squarely in the "I am a politician" camp, which opens his opinions on things political fully open to question and examination. The question of relevance is: Once a person does that, are you attempting to judge their response as a political or religious person?
Am ardently pro-life, as you may read. But I am also in favor of the death penalty, conditionally, as are pretty much all who believe we should have it. These two do not contradict. There is a gulf beyond breaching, between taking a life who has no voice of his own, and taking the life of a factually known criminal, who has taken the life or lives of others, and has not only defended himself, but has been defended by competent legal help, and then found to be unworthy of the favor of continued life.
I do believe you can forfeit your rights, and all of your rights, including life, by actions against humanity. I just don't see how one who is yet unborn can be so casually sentenced, within light of the Constitution and the statement of principle which brings the purpose for it into being.
This isn't Christianity calling for someone's death, this was Pat Roberston calling for someone's death. Just because someone says they are something, or because they are regarded as such, doesn't mean they are. It sounds far more like a political statement than one based on faith, at least to me.
Now, before I'm accused of being a Christian apologist, I am a fully fledged Atheist. But I'm beginning to abhor broad generalizations (both ways).
There's a lot of evidence that suggest Hitler was a Roman catholic, and many Nazis continued to be part of the Roman Catholic church. Was religion then responsible for the atrocities they committed?
I have often had people tell me that atheism was the root cause of Hitler's dementia. Which brings me to my main point:
Bad people will do bad things, and while there are occasions when I feel religion is inherently evil (such as genital mutilation), you can't lump categories of people who are worlds apart into the same label (unless you don't mind being tagged and gift-wrapped yourself).
' you can't lump categories of people who are world's apart into the same label." EXACTAMUNDO!!!!!!!!!
My OP was tonge-in-cheek. Some birdbrain made a post on Islam which supposed that the edict of one nut could be used to condemn the entire religion. The evil is not in the religion - any more than the virtue. It's in the individual acts of the individual believers.
Still doesn't hold water, Doug.
The Islamic terrorists invaded US. Do you see any "Christian" terrorist groups going to ANOTHER COUNTRY and declaring holy war against the citizens there?
You, like many liberals, persist in trying (in the name of "social justice") to equate Islam with Christianity in today's society.
"You, like many liberals, persist in trying (in the name of "social justice") to equate Islam with Christianity in today's society."
And you Brenda, like many evangelicals are determined to use the actions of a handful of foreign radicals to establish the superiority (in a legal context) of Christianity over Islam (later Budhism, after that Hinduism, etc.). The religion of Islam IS equal to Christianity - and any other religion in America.
Would you welcome Sharia Law into American society? The Muslim law that condemns homosexuality. They don't just preach how wrong it is, they can put people to death for it.
So strange how homosexual activists here in America want SPECIAL rights to legalize perversion, yet I bet they'd defend the "right" of Muslims to build a Sharia-Law-imposing mosque near Ground Zero. And why? Because they wouldn't want to GO to Iran or Yemen or one of those countries and have to REALLY fight for the HUMAN right to actually STAY ALIVE! No, they prefer to shove their desires down America's throat, saying it isn't enough that their actions aren't prosecuted here, they want us to morally sanction it.
There goes another theory of yours down the tube-----about the idea that Christianity equates to Islam.
This is the part where he will accuse you of trying to spread fear that sharia law will be imposed on America.
They never answer a direct question.
Or, claim that the 2% of Muslims living here are, well, somehow, in some magical way, not like Muslims anywhere else in the world, and that Islam, here, and those who come here from elsewhere in the world, get paid by them, and get guidance from them, are not in the slightest anything like that Islam of far off and irrelevant places like Iran and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, etc.
Yet, the evidence says that even life long American citizens, once becoming Muslims are susceptible to the violence and doctrines of violence, there having been numerous examples in the last few years - examples for which there is NO OTHER EXPLANATION, and for which Islam is the reason the actors themselves give.
There is a pattern discernable in many western nations of what, exactly, Muslims do once they increase in numbers. They defy civil authority, engage in acts of violence and repression that are incompatible with free societies, and then, under the threat of more violence, obtain further and further "accommodations" to their law.
If this pattern were mere coincidence, it would be convincing. But the pattern is not coincidence, it is precisely the written and spoken strategy that as been well documented, that is carried out.
Absent both the written and documented plan, plus the results of that plan, which match the plan, the observations would lead only to theories. But given the documentation and results match, the observation is nothing other than OBSERVED FACT.
Laughed out loud when I saw this topic title. Way to go Doug. Historically, Christianity has been infiltrating other countries and inciting genocide on other religious groups. The America's being just one. Britain was particularly good at it, (when the various Christian factions weren't killing each other that is.) I could get more contentious but the topic of Christians being so goody two shoes is rather boring.
name the "Christian factions" killing each other.
And, what "christian countries" have been "infiltrating and killing" other countries over their religion, and then seeking to impose Christianity upon them. Please do not cite anything to do with Catholicism, as I believe evidence upholds that Catholicism cannot be rightly considered "Christian". It follows a Pope instead of God, much as Islam follows Mohammed, instead of God.
You're the one who called me a birdbrain, so I'll respond. IF the global whole of Islam, consisting of well beyond a billion people, and self proclaimed authorities of Islam, recognized as such by both states and even other sects of Islam as being the doctrinal authorities agree on a bunch of things, it is not "one nut" who called for people to be executed. It was merely "one more in a long line of hundreds continuing tradition for hundreds of years" calling for the death of Islam's detractors.
Behold what passes for wingnut thinking. In the first quote, you can't pass judgment on Pat Robertson for what he said. OK. In the second quote, birdbrain passes judgement on Catholicism. In the 3rd, he not only passes judgement on Chavez, he calls for his execution.
And birdbrain is a fair example of what the teabaggers propose to elect to positions of authority in this country. You betcha!
"You are free to judge Robertson by his words, if you are determined to do so. But you can't judge anyone else, nor what Roberson claimed, by his words."
"Please do not cite anything to do with Catholicism, as I believe evidence upholds that Catholicism cannot be rightly considered "Christian". "
"The man is a tyrant, worthy of death... If I were president, I would order his assassination."
Are you having difficulty understand those things, or do any of them need clarification? It is my intention to speak clearly and precisely. You are definitely having trouble with the "precisely" part, as your speech is massive imprecision and generalizations. But, you may or may not have figured it out.
Brenda...here you go with your "sharia law" tripe again...
You are showing that you don't know what this term means....aside from some generalizations.. I thought I clarified it for you in our other thread.... I guess not..
Homosexuals do not want "special" rights....they want basic rights...
"Legalize perversion".......that shows your bigotry right there..
"one of those countries"......is Yemen the same as Iran....are either of them the same as Saudi Arabia??
You aren't doing yourself any favors Brenda..... A good lawyer you would not be...
"Sharia Law imposing mosque near Ground Zero".....
Brenda....you are ridiculous...
By the way....theocracy is theocracy.....
What about the treatment of religious minorities within the land of Brenda's "God's law"?
Persecution...forced conversion, expulsion, "inquisition"......
What about religious minorities under "sharia law"?
Protection, preservation, the right to worship your deity and live under the laws of your religious sect..."
Big difference, eh Brenda?
Again, you keep bringing up the "how would you like to live under sharia law" nonsense....
And again, I ask you, what experience do you or your family actually have living with Muslims?
You are fortunate we live in a secular nation where people who spew filth like yours have a protected right to do so....
You keep trying to put down others' "theories", yet you still haven't forwarded anything realistic, plausible, or factual yet....
Live up to your own hype....
You haven't forgotten about Charles Eastman or the Carlisle School yet, have you?
What kind of "Christianizing" was going on there? What "glory to God" was taking place?
Or are you afraid to look at physical and cultural genocide in the face?
Take responsibility for yourself and the actions of "yours" before you rant and rave about the "others" that you obviously do not understand...
And as one man, Pat Robertson, does not reflect all of Christianity, neither do the individual Muslim clerics represent all of Islam.... Let us be consistent and realistic..
By the way, Brenda, another book to add to your reading list is "Iran Awakening" by Shirin Ebadi...
I highly recommend that you read this book as soon as possible...
Your worldview relies on it...
I suggest you read the Bible. The state of your eternal soul relies on it.
not if you're an atheist!! Then it's party booze and loose women!!
We are all so tired of this!!!!!!!!!!
Pro or con, please take the religion elsewhere.
While my "eternal soul" doesn't depend on anything, I do read the Bible...quite regularly. I will let people like you fear the afterlife.....
This is why I criticize the likes of you so much.... I see inconsistencies all the time...
So, like I said, read Eastman, read Ebadi...find truth, and you will be set free of your bigotry..
You can keep on hating homosexuals (it is apparent through your language that you do), and I will continue respecting the diversity of people and living things on this planet....
For someone professing Jesus (the "god of love", right?) you spew much hatred...
You may be counting your place in heaven already.....but I wouldn't count on it too much... Hypocrites are not welcome there, last time I checked...
Do religious people fear the afterlife? I hear this all the time from atheists, but I'm afraid I don't understand it.
I don't hate homosexuals at all. I have people close to me who are "homosexual". But the lifestyle of homosexuality is wrong, and I hate the agenda that tries to equate traditional marriage with same-sex activity, in the faces of Americans in general but especially in front of innocent children.
I think you "hate" born-again Christians.
You read the Bible regularly? Then you've projected onto me a false idea, the idea that I'm "counting my place in heaven already". Paul tells us that salvation is the ultimate goal; it isn't something that's attained to yet by ANYONE. A Christian has only just started their journey toward ultimate salvation. And although I'm secure in the knowledge that my Faith is in the right place, I'm always aware that I COULD choose to deny the Lord and lose my hope of salvation if I veered away from Him, either suddenly or progressively.
Which is why a Christian constrains him/herself, limits themselves to a specific area of temptation if possible, and sets limits on themselves as to what earthly knowledge they reach for.
I am so happy that you have people close to you that are homosexuals. I'm going to guess that some of your best friends are black.
Your self assuredness as to your own vast superiority as an individual, in both moral and cultural matters is highly at odds with your lack of your own professed virtues.
IE, your intolerance is so loud its hard to hear your shouts of "intolerance" directed at others.
You should be paying a special surcharge to HubPages to be divided among forum participants who provide you with an outlook for your hostility in lieu of seeing a shrink.
Your definition of "intolerance" is disagreement with one of your opinions.
You accusing it does not make it so. Fortunately, I'm nowhere near as small minded as you.
Try DISAGREEING WITH ME, instead of your normal mode of hateful blather consisting mostly of generalizations, insults, and various personal attacks, and you'd discover that I really do just "disagree" and the rest is you, not me.
lmao at the best friends being black remark. I find it interesting that she has some homosexuals close and have to wonder if she calls them perverts to their faces as she refers to them on here. Can't beat christianity for the way it promotes and spreads bigotry and hate towards our fellow Americans. Christian's cherry pick the passages they want to enforce and ignore the inconvienent ones. Eating shellfish, wearing polyester, and not killing your wife if she wasn't a virgin when you married her don't apply to christians. It seems that most of whats in the bible only applies to those who have no use for another poorly novel in their library.
As you can see, prejudice and bigotry is the staple of liberal politics.
Predudice and bigotry ARE the staples of christianity, the tea party and the religious right.
Brenda does....or so she inferred in an earlier post in another thread...
And, yes, I believe that many Christians do fear death and the idea that after this life there may very well be nothing....
Why else attach to a dogma that puts all its emphasis on the "life beyond"?
Why all the evangelism??
Growing up in a Christian home, as the grandson of a minister, I heard every reason why one has to believe in Jesus....the "fire and brimstone" that awaits the "sinner/unbeliever"...the "torments"...the "Lake of Fire."
Fear peddlers.....and they make a good living off of it...
And the worst part is that once they have conditioned an audience to respond to fear tactics regarding their own "souls", this strategy is then transposed onto others...whether of different Christian sects, or different religions altogether..
Those "hellbound Catholics"...the "deceived adventists"....so on and so forth...
I remember how my late grandfather, after one of his services, made a young girl cry because he told her that her family would be going to hell unless they "changed their ways".....which meant that they had to stand against their version of Christianity and adopt ours....
Stupidity all around....and I was only a kid then....and I looked to the adults of the congregation...my parents, aunts, uncles, and others....and as the little girl cried all these adults stood there with their eyes to the ground...
Cowards......they lacked the strength to tell this "man of God" to shut his mouth and to cease in his fearmongering....
If it weren't for the ongoing "end times" diatribe, Christianity would be nothing....
Brenda....as for the "homosexuals close to you"...have you called them perverts lately?
Or do you just do this behind their backs?
Some friend you are....and again, hypocrisy abounds...
I don't hate "born again Christians"...but I do go after those who rabble rouse and spout hatred and intolerance of others..which is something that you do every single day in these forums....
Do you deny your own behavior?
Again....hypocrisy.... Shall I copy and paste all your ridiculous statements?
I have many Christian friends.....and none of them do what you do.... I have many Muslim friends, and none of them express the intolerance or animosity that you try to project onto Muslims....
If there was no Brenda.....no mindless hatemonger, then I wouldn't be writing anything here....
I am here to respond to you...and to remind you that there are far greater things, more relevant things to read than the Bible...
Umm Nope, you're not here just because of me, Mike.
You're here because you have a deep-seated desire to figure out why your grandfather's view is so oppositional to what's in your heart, and you've rotated toward me (or any Christian that you can converse with while keeping them at arm's length,) because you believe I can tell you the truth of your dilemma.
If you would read the parts of the Bible about Jesus's sacrifice and about being born-again, you might resolve that conflict within yourself.
"I don't hate "born again Christians"...but I do go after those who rabble rouse and spout hatred and intolerance of others..which is something that you do every single day in these forums...."
Seems to me that is exactly what you're doing.
But because it is anti-christian hatred you are spewing you will deny any wrong doing on your part.
The predictable denial is forthcoming.
As with any minister, Brenda, my grandfather collected a salary.
He made a far better living than I have either as a Marine, a tutor for foster youth, or in my current capacity as an employee of the Los Angeles Youth Network....
He was taken care of....
My family, in terms of our religious ties, are well known.... The Gospel Trumpet group visited my Great-Grandfather's ministry in Egypt way back in the early 20th century....
My grandfather had job security, an income that could always be counted on..(tithe money will always come in), sddcv
In this country both he (charles) and my grandfather (richard) published "Treasures of Truth", "The Tarrying of the Bridegroom", and many others that were widely circulated around the world...
As for my own Bible knowledge I used to have 1st John, James, 2nd Peter, and the book of Jude committed completely to memory...
I have spend much time with the Greek Septugint text.....and pondering on this guy Abraham...
I wonder about all the illegtimate children he had with women other than his wife....and about how he left all these people without any inheritance.....
The first Biblical example of a broken home..fatherless children...and parental abandonment....
How about that "sanctity of marriage" nonsense....
Someone who claims to be trying to help disadvantaged youth who is belittling marriage. Either he knows nothing about the subject of his employment, or else his prejudices override everything he knows.
For the one thing he knows, is that if marriage were honored, as it is intended, that the number of children needing homes, help, and desperately seeking a place to belong, would be so much smaller he wouldn't have this job.
Single parentage, broken homes, and failure of the family unit are THE causes of importance in the failure of youth to mature and grow to productive adulthood.
Of course Jim....you have no real response to the statement I posed to you earlier (in another thread), so the best counter you can devise is "Christian hating"....
I am glad that better minds reading all this understand better...
How is "anti-hate" synonymous with "anti-Christian"?
You tell me......
I'm sorry if my exposing of hypocrisy on the part of the "American Christian nation" nonsense has ruffled some feathers.....but those espousing "Christian America" have done far far far worse....
Brenda, do you have no response to what I posed?
Do you tell the "homosexuals close to you" that they are perverts, and that they do not deserve full status as Americans?
As for your wanton projecting into why I am having discussions with you, it is only within your mind, and those like you, that your responses make any sense....
You began with your rants about "sharia sharia sharia"......and now that you have been countered and found to be ignorant and bigoted you try to turn the tables....
It didn't work..
"Of course Jim....you have no real response to the statement I posed to you earlier (in another thread), so the best counter you can devise is "Christian hating"...."
Don't know what thread you reference.
"How is "anti-hate" synonymous with "anti-Christian"?"
I haven't read anything from you that is anti-hate, it is just hate going in another direction.
The denial was predicted and it came to pass.
"You are the one ranting about Muslims....I'm standing up for a minority population....which I don't even belong to...."<---me
The majority of them would never stand up for you, your loyalty is very misplaced.
By the way, a billion Muslims are not a minority." <--Jim
Again, Jim....you are misguided...
I ask again, why not?
My "loyalty" is to the concepts behind the formation of this nation...the protection of minorities from the exploitation and abuse of majorities....
I am loyal to Americans...whether Jewish, Muslim, Christian, atheist, Buddhist, or whatever.....
And I am against and intolerant of those who rabble rouse....like so many self-proclaimed "Christians" do here....
So many hypocrites...so little time...
“How about closing this thread?”
Read your words Jim.....bask in the ignorance that you spew....become one with your religious intolerance and xenophobia....
I don't see people like you or Brenda as real Christians....for Jesus would not speak about others the way either of you do...
Jesus would not live in the land of stereotype......he stood up for those who were unable to defend themselves....like Mary Madgelene.... He entered the house of the pagan Roman....
I don't see this concept of Jesus in either you or Brenda.... And I don't know how much of himself Jesus would see in either of you....
Gee Mike, I bet if I said I'm against grown men pimping-out 12-year-old girls, you'd still find a way to try to turn the subject around into an attack against me personally, or against Jim or some other person.
Let's move along and clear the aisles for a better thread to come along than this one.
I don't see how, Brenda...
And I don't see how your statement is at all relevant to anything we are discussing....
Running away from real words are we?
By the way, the fact that you would correspond the defense of religious minorities in this country to someone pimping out a child is beyond ridiculous....
Again.....a good lawyer you would not be....
What would Jesus think about the baseless, now bordering on the ludicrous, statements you are making?
By the way, calling out people like Jim based on statements that they made is not "attacking"....it is rather a response to an attack...
If you can't see these very basic things, I am worried about what you do when the ballot books come...and when the election booths are opened.....
How willfully blind can a person be?
Let's just keep track of the likes of Brenda and Jim and I guess we'll find out...
I wonder if Brenda ever takes the time to read her own words....
I doubt it...
The retreat of the hubpages Christian ghazis is an interesting sight to behold....
We can no more say that christianity calls for death because an evagelist does , no matter who he is! It's the same point, as that muslims didn't destroy the world trade center. This is where common sense comes in folks , you decide. There are fools on all sides of the political and religious spectrum. Even televangelists are human as are presidents and kings. They make mistakes and they make bad judgements just like you and I. But listening to them and blindly following their leads means you have no common sense. If you cannot make the distinction between the messenger and the wrong or right of their call , then you have the same problem they do!
Brenda Durham wrote: Do you see any "Christian" terrorist groups going to ANOTHER COUNTRY and declaring holy war against the citizens there?
Absolutely. Thousands of terrorist calling themselves missionaries have invaded practically every other country in the world torturing and forcing their religious beliefs on others.
Christianity has its faults and problems. Someone would say that anyone who advocates murder or war isn't really a Christian at all. Yet a lot of bad things as well as silly things have happened in the name of Christianity over the last five decades let alone the centuries.
Right now Islam looms as a great threat to the West because of 9/11. Only a small portion of those who see themselves as Muslim want violence but that seems to be enough to scare the hell out of the rest of us.
Ultimately religious fanatics whether Christian, Muslim or what have you are bad news and they can and do cause a lot of mischief. When they are not involved in mischief or their energies can be diverted elsewhere the world becomes a safer place.
I remember Sunday mornings when I was a kid laughing at the very idea of a gigantic glass cathedral somewhere in the USA where half the congregation are seated in their cars in the parking lot with speakers as if they're in a drive-in waiting for a movie to start up. It was just so absurd yet there it was on television. Jesus seemed to be reduced to a product being sold. No way could I see this as being real or having anything to do with real faith but others could and I suppose that is what counts. Money could be made and they were making it. There have been a lot of send ups of this sort of thing. Even so it still continues in one form or another. I suppose when religious fanaticism can be fueled into money spinning and maybe some of that money can work its way to charity it isn't so bad. Not real in my book and a little crazy but maybe not so bad.
Americans who gave up their citizenship to become Spanish citizens in what is today Florida, Cuba, and Mexico participated in such behavior...
To begin with, by turning away from the U.S. and taking on Spanish citizenship they also had to become baptized Roman Catholics..
Spain did not change this aspect of their governance (Catholocism being the only officially recognized and permissable religion) until the 1960's-'70's...
While we call these periods of American Protestant conquest in particular to follow "the Texan Revolution" and the Spanish-American War, opposition to Catholocism and native religious ideas led to bloodshed and other revolting things...
Terrorism, also, is not only a physical thing...
It does not have to be dead or damaged bodies or destroyed buildings......
Ideas can terrorize as well.....
I can point to numerous examples, but my hands are hurting right now....
But I'll end with one thing further...
I was watching an interview a couple weeks back, leading up to the 9/11 anniversary.... A man was explaining that when books get burned, eventually bodies get burned... It took the federal government and some guy (video link at bottom of this post) to keep two ministers (that we know of) from burning Qurans...
This is terrorism of the mind:
http://news.oneindia.in/2010/09/11/9-11 … rning.html
I like this guy:
naw, I think the only terrorism of the mind is the venom you seek to instill in the mind of your readers.
I guess you guys would have been up in arms if someone had suggested assasinating Hitler as well.
Once there was a declaration of war from Congress, he became a fair target according to the rules of war. I hadn't heard that Congress had declared war on Venezuela
If it was venom at all, then perhaps you would be correct...
I don't see how your correllation makes sense..
I suppose I should live in denial of this type of thinking (in terms of the links I left behind)?
The lord bade unto him.
Fear not the terrorist, Fear Brenda Durham.
"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster."
Who can argue that it is OK to assassinate someone because they are a dictator yet preach Christian values in the same sentence.
You have already become a monster.
So, you fear the Christian who wants your soul to be saved, but you embrace the "rights" of dictators and other criminals? Is that a correct assessment of your statements? And who besides you said anything about assassinating anyone?
Who knows, Sir Dent?
I've become accustomed to being personally attacked. I think I'm like Pink Floyd, "comfortably numb"! LOL
But I always retain the right to question the person. I'm always curious as to what causes them to be so aggressively anti-Christian. Perhaps a struggle of conscience.....perhaps a seared conscience.......I always hope it's the former, because in that there is something the Lord can work with....
And then too...it's possible the poster was being sarcastic in response to someone else's post and I took the reference wrong. Either way, it is what it is and Christians are always stronger for it all.
I'm wary of anyone wanting to "save my soul."
"I want to save your soul"= "I want you to follow the rules and ideas that I decide are right for you"
Many "Christians"(from the leaders of the United Fruit Company to their co-cronies in the government who spread disease, political corruption, terrorism and warfare throughout Central America) extend this self-righteous denial of respect into "I want to liberate your resources from your country."
We want to vigorously control (at least in front of the video cameras) who comes through our borders, but we make it very easy for Americans to run off to Mexico, Costa Rica, and other countries to live out their lives...
I think people should focus on saving their own souls.....and let others be. If someone wishes to engage in debate or conversation that is fine. There should be no debauchery of one another...and those who use pulpits (or any non-Christian equivalent) should hold those positions based off honorable behavior...leadership through fearmongering shows weakness, instablility, and shortsided ignorance.....
Brenda...rise above this tripe.
"Rights of dictators"......I think you should learn about the history of the Spanish and Brazilian colonies in the Americas leading up to today...
Perhaps you can take a class... I don't mean that you should go and cave in to some "liberal professor"...but do what I did, and engage in debate representing your claims... But, you can always lay your claims here. I am more than capable of having this conversation...
You should check into Operation Northwoods...learn about disease spreading in Guatemala (and United Fruit monopolizaton of that nation's economy and government directly and indirectly)..we scheme up far worse things than assassinations..
It is one thing to be patriotic to the idea of the nation and to respect a system of governance that we enjoy...and that we should support...
It is another to ignore how our flag, tax dollars, and people have been used for private interests.....
It is another thing to see people get into political office who follow gameplans created to directly undermine the common American population and cash in on their American Dream goals...
Where is Dick Cheney these days?
No. "I want to save your soul" means I don't want your soul to burn in hellfire forever. It's that simple. That is indeed how a Christian rises above the "tripe"! We see people's very essence in their immortal soul. All the other stuff is just stuff....important now, yes, because of its links to the immortal, but in final essence just....stuff; I believe the Apostle Paul calls it "dung".....
I wouldn't dare ask, and he wouldn't dare donate! haahaa
I would use the funds to send Obama and half of Congress to China so they could actually work to maybe pay down the National deficit!
The fact of the matyter is this, there is greed in many of the pulpits around the world, but there are many where there is no greed. Be that as it may, if Christ is preached, then the preaching is right no matter what anyone else says or thinks.
If everyone takes the theory of "assassination" on hand, then the whole world will be a hell.
One thing I would like to see happen is for Americans to stop appologizing for being American....and christians stop appologizing for being christians, there seems an inherant need for hyper-anylizing the many positive and conciencious intentions of the plilanthropies predominant in our society and government. It seems that those in this forum come preloaded with enough prejudiced thought and oppinion to choke a judge.
by Michael Willis 13 years ago
I normally stay away from the religion threads and subjects of controversy, but Pat Robertson's claim that the Earthquake is punishment from God on the Haiti people because they made a 'Pact with the Devil" is insane!!!!!!! http://www.nowpublic.com/world/pat-robe … 56010.htmlIf...
by weholdthesetruths 12 years ago
Australian imam named Feiz Muhammad has issued a fatwa calling for the Geert Wilders to be beheaded.Not the guys in Iran or Saudia Arabia. No, it's an Australian. There is no outcry from "moderates" world wide issuing statements in rapid fire, signed, handed out on public tv,...
by Brian 12 years ago
There has been a lot of talk about the insane stuff that Pat Robertson says when he is on the air. But, I saw something this morning on the religious channel that tops it.How about this?! Christians for White Supremacy! Who is paying for this crap to be on the air? Nothing like spreading the word...
by Segun Tewogbola 8 years ago
Why is Islam takes delight in killing People all because of religion?Are terrorists Muslims sold out to the devil?
by Claire Evans 7 years ago
Very rarely do I see a forum thread on Islam. I have not seen an atheist who has started a thread on Islam insulting Mohammed or Allah or just speaking out against them. Christianity and Jesus seem to be the target. I know it is because the US, for example, is considered a...
by Ron Montgomery 12 years ago
OK, give me a minute......it's in here somewhere...Crap!never mind
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