obama comes to india

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   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

   Today, 7th November, 2010, Mr.Barrack Obama arrived in Mumbai, India at 12-50 pm. He went to the Taj Hotel, where 2 years before, Pakistani terrorist, took the whole city of Mumbai to ransom... they killed more than 200 people in the hotels, in CST station and on the roads of Mumbai. He presented a single white rose to the memorial of those killed in Taj hotel and wrote a note in the visitors' book.
   
   He said he is honoured to be in India. He offered condolences to the killed tourists, including the Israeli couple, leaving thier child an orphan. But he never uttered a word about who was responsible for these things. Why not he name the main culprit, Pakistan as epicentre of all such terrorist activities? What interest has he got in hiding Pakistan's name?
   
   He has come here to increase trade with India and create jobs in USA. He is welcome to do that, because, thousands of Indians are working in USA for decades. Let him plan the increase in trade with India, let him increase jobs in USA. But why does he not mention his policy on outsourcing, the main concern for India?
   
   Previously, he is reported to have assured the Pakistani President Zardari that US will not let Pakistan become "failed State". In India, every Indian's dream is to see Pakistan fail. How can any US President assure Pakistan about its existence? Better look after US interests and see that USA does not become a "failed state".

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      rachellrobinsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't have the answer to your question but I can say that there are American's asking the same thing.

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      ediggityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think the whole US plan of spreading freedom would go over to well if President Obama said he wanted to see Pakistan fail as a state.  As far as assurance it was probably in reference to the US doing what they can to make sure Pakistan doesn't fail.

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      SiddSinghposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The visit is largely symbolical - I think that Obama has understood very well that Indians are suckers for symbolism - even if it is a substitute for substance. So, he says he grieves the loss of lives, signs the condolence book, talks to survivors etc. Indians will feel glad - and that's it.
      
      Did he make any mention of the origins of the attack? No.
      
      
      
      He has no interest in hiding the names of perpetrators, but he has no interest in naming them either. Why should he?
      
      Accept it - India and Pakistan are a hyphenated relationship in American polity - a zero sum game.
      
      
      
      He has made his policy amply clear on outsourcing - "Buffalo, not Bangalore" - thus spake Obama.
      
      Indeed he has been raising the Indian bogey at various occasions. Sample this -
      
      "Let me tell you, China is not cutting education. South Korea is not cutting its education spending. India is not cutting education spending. Germany is not cutting education spending. Those countries aren't playing for second place. And neither does the United States of America. We play for first place," Obama said. (Source - http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new … 840016.cms)
      
      “There’s an educational arms race taking place around the world right now – from China to Germany, to India to South Korea.  Cutting back on education would amount to unilateral disarmament.  We can’t afford to do that”.
      
      Why should he even talk about India in this way - the education budget of India is not even 10% of that of the US.
      
      Another one -
      
      "We can't afford our kids to be mediocre at a time when they're competing against kids in China and kids in India,"
      http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US-k … 286940.cms
      
      
      
      
      
      
      I don't agree with you - it is not every Indian's dream to see Pakistan fail.

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         couturepopcafeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think the percentage of dollars spent on education in relation to another country (India) was the point of this comment.  I think the point is simply "let's not cut education budget."

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      Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Ahhh, do you have knowledge of India giving aid to terrorists in Pakistan to attack U.S. troops?

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         SiddSinghposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Are you really serious?
         
         Google "india pakistan" and see the results.

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            Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I understand the India?Pakistan rivalry.
            
            It would be in Indis'a best interest if the U.S. turned on Pakistan.  I mean we are already bombing the country.
            
            If the Pakistani Government fell, India could fill the void?

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               SiddSinghposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "Rivalry" connotes two or more entities fighting for the same thing. I would not describe any aspect of India Pakistan relationship as rivalry (except maybe the export of Basmati rice!).
               
               I didn't really understand the point about India filling the void in case Pakistan government collapses. Filling the void in what sense?

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                  Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Does India still consider Pakistan as part of India?
                  
                  Does India recognize the sovereignty of Pakistan.

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                     SiddSinghposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     No, Pakistan is not considered a part of India - except in the wildest dreams of some extreme Right wingers - and even they propound this idea in half jest!
                     
                     India fully recognizes the sovereignty of Pakistan.
                     
                     I think I am getting what you mean - but that situation is not possible. An imploded Pakistan will be a nightmare 100x times that of what is currently Afghanistan - and not in the interest of the World in general, and India in particular.

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                        Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        
                        
                        I agree, I was responding to this in the OP's Post.
                        
                        
                        Previously, he is reported to have assured the Pakistani President Zardari that US will not let Pakistan become "failed State". In India, every Indian's dream is to see Pakistan fail. How can any US President assure Pakistan about its existence? Better look after US interests and see that USA does not become a "failed state".

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                           SiddSinghposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           It takes all kinds!

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                           Cleancloverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           China would love to see USA as a failed state.

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                              Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              
                              
                              That is not true if the U.S. were to fail China would soon follow.  There is a symbiotic relationship between China and the U.S.

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                                 Cleancloverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Symbiotic relationship only in trade and China can quickly look in Europe, Africa and India for trade.
                                 USA and China are competitors and china would love to see USA go down.

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                                    Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    That is pure speculation, I do not believe it.

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                                       Cleancloverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       The reality is China is going to be a superpower in the coming years and nothing can stop it.
                                       The only speculation is what kind of power would China be? If it becomes a hostile power then It will exert it's influence on USA and India, and other probability is it could ally with the Soviet Union against the USA.
                                       It could make Pakistan more powerful with nuclear weapons against India. It could make Pakistan less dependant on USA for funds and It could use Pakistan to create volaitility in Asia.
                                       
                                       One thing that could counter it would be the rise of India at par with China to create balance of the world power. Strong India and USA could keep China in check.
                                       
                                       And if you are talking about USA-China alliance like in 1971 then you should know nobody is permanent enemy or friend. One day might come when USA becomes enemy of England.

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                                          Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          
                                          
                                          In the future the Chinese government is going to have its own problems within its population.
                                          
                                          The Chinese population are becoming more educated.  Educated people tend to question things!

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                                    Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    It would not be in China's interest for the U.S. to "go down." The U.S. bonds they own would be devalued or become worthless and they would lose the largest export market for their goods.

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      Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Why do Indians want to see Pakistan fail? Seems to me that could have bad security consequences for India. The U.S. is experiencing problems as a result of Mexico's and the US's inability to deal with drug battles along their border. Most Americans want a stable, well-governed and prosperous Mexico as is the case with Canada on our northern border.

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      KFlippinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Your topic is both on point and stimulating to the conversation of just who Obama is and what he really stands for.  For certain, he makes a much bigger deal out of pronouncing 'Pakistan' than he does India, you get this holding close to heart sense when he speaks of Pakistan that seems strange, and for certain he showed no sympathy or empathy of any consequence to the dangers at your border when discussing Jihad that I could discern.  Perhaps I'm just not astute enough these days, or maybe too cynical . . . but something smells most days, something doesn't quite add up, and it may well be Obama's own fault for not letting us all in to understand him better.  We all know he delights in pronouncing Pakistan, but that is not exactly a statement on his true foreign policy leanings, etc......Best wishes to you and your people and your country.

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   habeeposted 14 years ago

   Anyone know how much this trip is costing us?

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      ediggityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      $46 a day.

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         Petra Vlahposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         $46 a day? Somehow I doubt that Obama is staying at a Motel 6! - not if he is still married to Michelle who made sure her visit to Sapin was a first class world affair...

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            couturepopcafeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            And no little micro-fridge in the room!

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         couturepopcafeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         ediggity - not likely.  Where did you get this figure?

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      readytoescapeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Further
      
      Is this fool hearty move pertaining to the security of the President of the United States?
      
      Does a trip to this location provide an irresistible opportunity for our enemies in that part of the world?

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   Cleancloverposted 14 years ago

   I think the root of the problem is propering government in Pakistan. If Pakistan becomes a proper democracy with absolute power in civilian hands and the Pakistan Army and ISI totally under civilian control then all terrorsit activities from that region would cease to exist.
   The real truth that nobody knows is the Army and ISI of pakistan are terrorists themselves.

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      SiddSinghposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If you think democracy in Pakistan is going to solve the problem of terrorism in India, you are sadly mistaken. The "theory of a thousand cuts" and "eating grass for a 100 years" did not originate from the Pakistani Army - they were all proposed by popularly chosen Prime ministers in Pakistan.
      
      I read a survey a few months back - it showed that something like 65% or more of Pakistan populace consider India as the single biggest threat to Pakistan. If this is true, do you really think that a democratic government will be ready to talk sense with India?

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         Cleancloverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You are mistaken how governments work Sidd. It doesn't matter what the pakistani general population think or decides. Their job is just to elect the government.
         Now all decisions are taken by the governement and it cannot work against it's own interest and growth and so with bilateral and multilateral international pressure cannot and will not allow terrorism to thrive and prosper.
         And the common man is not foolish enough to allow terrorism to thrive which is making them weaker, poorer and stunting their growth. So majority Pakistanis want peace.
         The formula for peace is simple. Keep Pakistani Army and ISI in control and you control Terrorism.

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            Petra Vlahposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            If you really think that the will of the people matters, then you are just as mistaken - it DOES NOT - and Pakistani is not alone in that regard. Political games and strategies ARE NOT decided by the people of the world, they are decided by economic and military interests of the big players - America in particular

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               Cleancloverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               People should kindly read what i type before replying. We share similar views.

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   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

   Mr.Sidd Singh, I think you have not heard or read about what happened in 1947. Just for the sake of invading India, Pakistanis., ie., the muslim majority headed by Jinnah demanded that independence be given to them on 14th August, 1947 itself. One day after, India got independence. Before that muslim raiders entered Kashmir, in the hope of conquering and annexing it with Pakistan. The Maharaja was shaken and when it became known that he cant hold on for long, he hurried to Delhi and signed the instrument of accession.
   
   Do you think the capture of Kashmir is their only agenda? No. They aim to spread their borders southwards and turn India into an Islamic nation. If we fail to take the initiative and see Pakistan fail, we will find ourselves fail. If we dont kill the tiger, it will cut us to pieces. I dont mention the whole Pakistani people.... it the evil war machine and terror-infrastructure that are planning to destroy India.
   
   For America, it is simple diplomacy.. for India., it our lives, it is our culture, it is our land and our civilisation.
   
   Even if China defends, Pakistan, they cannot match India, as India is the most trained and experienced army in the world. China holds 1.4 billion slaves in their country. But India has 1.1 billion civilised, well trained (in every field) people.  You can read in newspapers today that India has surpassed China in ecomonic growth.
   
   No one has the right to pledge our grown economy to China or Pakistan or USA.  Our forefathers failed to take cognizance of what our neighbours planned... and lost all richness and glory. We cant afford to lose that once more.

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   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

   Failing of Pakistan is not the policy of India... But the birth of that country, carved out from a united India was on a bed of skulls and bones of hundreds of thousands... Almost every family in India was affected by the savagery of the religious fundamentalists. Political leaders will use polished language for diplomacy sake and use mild words in dealing with Pakistan.
   
   But continued terrorism, claiming an Indian state as theirs, donating some areas to Chiina to build a strategical road, and joining hands with China against India will show that their ambition is to revive their savagery in the whole sub-continent which started in 11th century (1191). If they want to live peacefully, no one will stop them. If they dont want peace, they are doomed to fail.
   
   Above all, how long will they pull on with the already fallen America's military aid? If America stops donating "aid" from their peoples' tax-money, will not Pakistan fail?

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      Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      You are correct without the United State's taxpayer money, Pakistan could not defend herself.  I do not think the aid is enough to allow a Pakistani offensive?

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         SiddSinghposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         At this stage, USA has committed USD 2 billion over the next five years for Pakistan as "aid for fighting terrorism" on the western border (meaning Afghanistan). This aid will be used specifically for buying weapons - including helicopters.
         
         Sadly, The Indian experience has been this - any weapon that lands in Pakistan will be ultimately used against India - or more specifically - in bolstering the eastern border of Pakistan.
         
         Here is a link for more details about US aid to Pakistan
         http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-1 … rists.html

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         VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         American aid to Pakistan is really not enough to take offensive against India. But they can initiate it and call all their muslim neighbours for help, as is their practice.  In 1971 war, almost all muslim countries directly came to the aid of Pakistan.... but in vain.

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   optimus grimlockposted 14 years ago

   you can keep him

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      SiddSinghposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Too late! He's already gone!

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