What has gone so wrong in America that we must result to becoming drug dealers to pay off our dificit? In Ca.during our Midterm Election we were given prop 19. A law that would legalize the sale of (Marijuana). Have everyone gone insane.
Okay( QUESTION),what about those that have been imprisoned for selling Marijuana. Are they going to be set free? What Government would allow what they have convicted others of to become legal for the sake of debt. Are there no morals on the way money is gain anymore? Or is this the secret root of corruption finally leaking out? Thank God It did not pass. Yet the fact remains that the State of Ca actually considered this a means.WOW! Our Society is in trouble.
Seems like you missed the whole point of that prop. It was a way to decriminalize the use of pot and by doing so it would have made it a health and safety issue. Our last three presidents have all admitted to using drugs yet they still became presidents. How is that fair to other pot smokers who have been convicted and can never vote and will have the stigma of a criminal record for the rest of their lives?
This is only true in some states. Many except for violent criminals receive their rights after a period of seven year. None of these Presidents you speak of have ever been convicted of drug use. This was something they personally disclosed about themselves. It can not be compared to a drug dealing Government. How can you decriminalize the use of pot by making it legal? The payment of this illegal substance is merely switching hands to a higher vineyard. Are you stating that because the Government has control they can limit the level of distirubution? You really believe this? If users brought the drug from the streets, why would they go to a higher seller. Either way the purchase once obtained will be legal, it doesn't matter who's the distributor. The Government should have a sense of consciouness in regards to the type of presidence they 're setting before those they are seeking to lead..
The prison lobby is a for profit industry and is the 2nd largest lobby in the United States. They get on average 35k a prisoner and spend about 3 grand, pocketing the rest. The more things that are illegal, the more money they make personally. We have a for profit prison industry you know. So, over 60% of those in prison are there for drugs, and of those, 68% are in for marijuana. We are paying for those people right now, for dealing or smoking pot, which the majority of the country knows is less harmful than alcohol.
Marijuana, or hemp, was the largest cash crop in our nation's history, potentially the world at one point. Our Declaration of Independence was written on it. It was a law to grow it at one point, and you could pay your taxes in it. Until the 30s, it was one of the largest aspect of our economy. This is all easily researched history.
There is nothing immoral about using marijuana, just what you assign to it. It has been used by smoking before your Bible was written. It is the only substance that requires no processing that can alleviate pain, stress, depression, cancer treatment, eye problems, stomach issues, etc...so by stating it is immoral, you are stating a belief in a higher power, a creator. Tell me that your creator didn't create a substance with so many qualities that requires absolutely no processing, and is everywhere in the world, its use being older than written word.
The immorality is only what we have ascribed to it. The use of hemp products is speculated to have a market of as much as $150 billion, with the use of the plant to smoke would go as high as $48 billion and as low as $25 billion, all with providing a substance that has been proven not to be harmful in its intake, aside from the smoking effects if that is how it is ingested. However, now their are vaporizors and you can make it into anything edible, that would eliminate the need to use a vast array of prescription medications that are on the market with far more side effects, and which our country relies upon.
So because the Goverment saids its okay, its okay? Come on who trust the Goverment theses days. Slavery was also legal back then, but it didn't make it right ? And because it has been used in the pass it is no longer immoral? Morality simply deals with right and wrong, it has nothing to do with exceptance. And as far as this matter being connected to a Higher Power, we really don't have to reach that high to determine this topic. I personally thought those standards were put in place by our Goverment. Therefore Laws where established to govern theses boundries. Yes, I believe that there should be boundries and order to avoid chaos. And I also believe that a mind under the influence of an altered drug is headed down a road that will lead to more immorality. This is an evident proving fact. So you're saying its okay because of the money that is gained? And the way we make our money is without morality now? Is this what we are saying to the many young people who will except this life style as okay? What message are we sending to the next generation? Doctor's always state that there is a sign affect to every drug that has been medically perscribed. We all know this.What affect will this have on a whole generation of young people? You've also stated that the legal system was put place for funding, that I agree with. But again it does not make it right. Morality simply deals with boundries, based on the outcome. Are you saying that there is no right or wrong except identified with a higher power? Any drug that has the ablity to alter someones state of mind should never be made legal. This example is saying to an entire generation of young people that smoking trees is okay. Its not okay, and my friend no amount of money will change this fact. It Is corruption, no matter how you clean it up. Thanks for stopping by, and I'm sorry about the late response. Your information was very informative.
First, we apparently need to establish how this drug became illegal. Historically, America has used Mexican seasonal labor for cheap work, and being an agricultural society until the beginning of the 20th century and even further in some places. Because of the rapid shift in economic potential during that time, more jobs were open and more opportunities available, Mexicans quit leaving to go home. There was no legal recourse at the time to make them leave either, because we invited them to come and paid them, well, paid them a little bit. It was part of their culture to smoke pot and they smoked it out in the open. It wasn't illegal. So began the illegality of marijuana, as a method to control and lock up Mexicans that to the white people of the time, appeared to be everywhere, taking over. Sound familiar? Cocaine? It became illegal when blacks began making some money in the 20s and building their own clubs...white women started going. Well, can't have that, so how do you shut down those clubs? Outlaw the coke that was in them. I just wanted to explain that the reason these things were outlawed wasn't because they hurt people. Nobody knew they hurt people actually. Cigarettes were not thought harmful until the last 30 years. In fact, it wasn't until the 90s when they finally admitted it formally.
As to mind altering substances being illegal, that would include more than you think. That would mean outlawing coffee, Dr Pepper, chocolate, sugar, and technically water. You are going to tell me that there is a line to which something alters one's mind, and its legality. So, that is the argument...does pot fall behind or in front of that line. I pose it falls in front of that line. You pose it falls behind it. I ask you why? Misuse of narcotics is a problem. You hear about those problems. You don't hear about the millions who have smoked pot and still do who walk among you and work with you every day. I am high right now. See, I can formulate an articulate argument and type really fast even when stoned. The fact is, most people you know have smoked pot. Some still do and you don't even know it. They use it responsibly and probably drink less and take less pharmaceutical medication than most others around them. It had only been officially tested during Nixon, which he suppressed until he was out of office because the results didn't go along with what he expected. Recently, tons of test have been done on the substance. It does not kill brain cells, it numbs them to a point and for a short amount of time. It stimulates the receptors and provokes the chemical that makes you happy. It physically yet in a potentially false manner, happiness, which chocolate also does. It numbs the nerves that deal with short term memory, making the retrieval of such information more difficult, but not really by much. The fact is, the first couple of times you smoke you are an laughing tomato. I know this. The first couple of times you get drunk, you are also a tomato, but more vocal. Then you got used to it. Medically marijuana helps with more physical and mental problems than alcohol does, and if you really get looking into it, than most pharmaceuticals. The downside is you get calmer, more open minded to an extent (but I think that is because it is illegal and you find out what it really is and begin to think outside of the box), hungry, and a sense of peace within one's self. Sometimes stuff gets more funny too. It is not physically addicting like caffeine or sugar, but is psychologically addicting or can be, just as virtually anything on the planet can also be. If you play legos every day after working at the law firm, eventually you will rely on playing legos. That is just a flaw in human nature.
My apologies...I was watching Chuck and writing this. I never listed the downside, but rather went right into the effects. The downside is that you have a harder time remembering things, probably smoke it so the carninogens are horrible (but there are SO many other ways that won't hurt you available), and tend to want to stay home. Now, I believe the "cave" mentality that can go along with the misuse of it can be bad, I believe that it it is a byproduct of it being illegal. Regardless, good writing with you. Take care.
Be careful. We are about to agree on two things. Chuck and the deleterious effects of marijuana on cognitive processes. Probably the last civil words we will exchange since I am the embodiment of evil.
My brother, I thought I was the embodiment of evil. You know, we get heated in these forums so often that I allow myself to get riled. Now, I rationalize this with the idea that, "I've had enough! I am not playing nice any longer...these people won't listen to verifiable fact." However, I also get annoyed with conservatives thinking the same way in responding to the Middle East, so I am being a hypocrite. For that I apologize sir. I will do my best to be better. AND....Chuck is awesome!
You are so wrong. Chuck isn't awesome Yvonne Strahovski is awesome. I don't get heated about anything. I will tell you why - because no man's opinion matters more to me than mine. I honestly don't care what anyone else has to say, pretty much ever. That doesn't mean I don't think about what they say, it means I just don't care. And even stronger, I care even less about what a liberal has to say. Cold as that sounds, it is what it is.
That having been said. I do care about them. We are all brothers and sisters.
You're kidding me right? I have seen the behaviour and response of those that indulge in pot smoking. And frankly (Texasbeta) if any of these items you have named brought about this kind of response or altering in me, I would run away from that store. I know that people are capable of functioning under the influence of drugs. I see it all the time. This I do not doubt. This reliance has become normality for many. Why should we allow the Government to benifit off of what they once considered to be a Crime? The taxes will not decrease. Is this considered to be liberty for our own desired behaviour without accountablity as a society? Where will it stop? I agree that the Ameican Commerce have made a lot of money off of the unhealthy life style we have chosen to live. Again it all goes back to discipline. This has become a dirty word to many. Without bountries my friend and brother the beast is just around the corner. We have been deceived into thinking that the taste of food and the feeling of substance abuse are more important the our health and our society. You can't get away from the corruption , its treated as nomality. This conversation about legalizing pot is abnormal. Anything given to a society that will cause harm, and it is labeled take at your own risk. Is wrong. I call it population control, just let everybody destroy themselves. Thanks for your comments.
First of all, the government decides what is a crime and what is not. So allowing the government to profit, which is actually allowing the entire nation to profit as the government isn't a separate entity...it is you and me. The fact is that you consider it bad and I don't. I consider religion bad and a detriment to society, but you don't see me trying to outlaw it. Additionally, you never acknowledged the issue of caffeine, sugar, chocolate, soda, trans fats, salt, and water. All have mind altering effects and most listed will contribute to killing you. So, by your logic...we should outlaw sugar. Nice. That makes sense.
It doesn't take a goverment to help me decide who is criminal, expecially with the history of America. They're probably plotting something criminal as we speak. Why are you defending something based on the desires of an animalistic nature? Yes I said the animal, whenever someones appetite becomes the foundation of their decisions in life, you are then without reason. That's scary. Sugar has never gotton me high, be forreal. And I prefer non chemialized products. How can you compare these things to weed. If you want to smoke drugs, fine. I still don't want to see it sold at the corner store of every inner city.. Your logic is to convince people that drugs or weed are equal to every thing else. You people are to intelligent for me, at lease this is what you believe. Socrate's stated that with all the knowledge he had aquired ,he still knew nothing. I don't care who or what you are. Weed is not just another product. And I would stand against the flow of the river, no matter the opposition. I'm built from the inside out. I will never understand your reasoning. Take Care.
By definition, it is the government who decides the laws and without laws, nothing is criminal...FOR REAL! Learn how to use a dictionary. Secondly, sugar HAS gotten you high. It is a fact. When you give kids sugar, they go nuts with energy. Did you think that was just happenstance? Additionally, the spelling is "Socrates", not Socrate's. Finally, weed isn't a product. There is no processing in weed. You apparently don't know a thing about what you are writing about. You can go grab the plant, cut it, and you're done. How is that for your "non processed" material that you are so fond of? You won't understand my reasoning because you refute the concept of reason itself. Period.
The English Diction doesn’t certify my communication skills, you got the message I’m sure. I am not limited in my ability to convey to you what I am trying to say, regardless of my grammatical inadequacy. Thanks for pointing it out. NO BOUNTRIES, Period. How about that! You know what, in spite of your blatant arrogance; I still want you to have a nice Holiday.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving girl! I am quite adequate with my writing, but trust me, I can't speak for squat. I stutter, and though I hide it in a manner that allows me to shield most people from ever knowing, it is always there. So, I am sure you have me there much more than I have you (yes, I am arrogant in that regard, but trust me...I suck at more things than most probably) on the written word. You have a sense of right and wrong, and even though I differ in my perspective of what those are, you fight for that which you think is right and good and a just way to live. That should always be respected and I definitely respect you for voicing your opinion in your cause, as well as the opinion itself. Have a great day tomorrow. I am thankful we can have this debate in this country and still be cool after we are done.
This is true, there is far more processing in the production of sugar.
My adopted mom used to buy the stuff they take of of sugar to make many of her 'sweets' for me as a kid. Mmmm her candy bars were delicious! And she would even let me have that as dinner, they were actually good for ya ya see
I know that pumpkin pie yesterday was good for me. I use Bill Cosby logic...it has all the basic food groups. The ice cream i put on top of it surely covered what it doesn't. Oh so good!
Many see the disease in this country, and it is sicker than many can ever imagine. This sickness is in the mind of those that really believed that their twisted sense of intelligence is without understanding among other cultures. Nations are looking on at America waiting to see their next ploy. There is only deception and a sickness that is beyond any correction ahead. Your adopted mom has no creditability with you. It sounds as if your health was meaningless to her. Sorry you were so mis- treated. Take Care
My adopted mom did more for my health then I can put into words, when I lived with my dad it was hamburgers and hotdogs all the way, guess who has had sevear health problems relating to diet? My dad and step mom. My adopted mom has been in great health for much of her adult life, I should be so lucky to have the heath at 70 that she has (eating more garlic these days so maybe I will). I have to say that most of what you said there made absolutely no sense and related to nothing you were responding to. The bit about my adopted mom was the only thing that had any sense to it at all and it was wrong, why am I not surprised?
Then why are you responding to a statement you cannot understand or makes any sense? You people, you're just too intelligent for my meager understanding. This business of legalizing drugs is no joking matter, this is the bottom line. Is this statement clear enough for you? By the way, look up the definition of demoralization.
"1. To undermine the confidence or morale of; dishearten: an inconsistent policy that demoralized the staff."
I am sure you could find an archiac defintion if you looked, but this is 99.9% of the current usage
I responded to the bit that was clear, the insult toward my adopted mom, which I will not stand for.
This business of drugs being illegal is a serious matter, it is causing so much harm in this world, far more then the drugs themselves are capable of doing. The prohibition against marijuana is a death sentence for cancer suffers, as chem kills them before the cancer, the effects of marijuana means they continue to eat and don't starve. I cannot for the life of me fathom how heartless people can be toward cancer sufferers. Couple the prohibition of a drug with clear medical benefits with the crime syndicates that are created and the huge suffering that ensues because of that criminal black market and I despair that things will do anything but degenerate further into a mess you cannot fathom yet. The prohibition against alcohol was overturned because of the crime it created, had it stayed illegal the crime in society cause would have gotten worse and worse just as it has with marijuana prohibition. With this prohibition you may be protecting your kids from marijuana but you are putting them in direct danger of being exploited by the criminal networks that support themselves with marijuana money, the gang violence create over who gets to sell drugs in this or that neighborhood. This is a danger they cannot choose, it is one they are already in. They can choose not to smoke week but they cannot choose to live in a world that does not have criminal gang networks profiting off of illegal drugs. Why? Because people like you insist on regulating the morality of other people, an impossible task that will be exploited by criminals.
I wasn't trying to insult your Adopted Mom in anyway, I am very sorry if I hurt you in anyway, I really mean this. Nothing is personal among strangers. Take Care.
Morale is to be disheaten, but to be demolized is to bring the fundmental way of life into disorder and corruption. Do you understand? This is the context in which I sought to outline the view point of my topic.
Using morality to contextualize this stuff does not work, you cannot legislate morality. I find it much more demoralizing to see laws that cannot possibly be realistically enforced anyway. Nothing makes a bigger joke of laws then the law that cannot be enforced, any laws based on regulating morality are laws that cannot be enforced. The simple fact is that prohibition does not work and the longer we cling to the desire to control others through prohibition the more problems we will have with crime and total disregard for the law.
Why Not? We legislate everything else; you really think it's all about control? We really are dealing with the lower nature of mankind; the reduced state of man is an animal nature. As humanity continues to become more and more desensitized and segregated from their inner conscious, my concern grows greater and greater. It will be every man for him-self at the expense of others pretty soon.
That makes alot of sense to me, as long as people don't drive
Many reasonable people will point out that while your OPINION is that pot is somehow a moral issue, they don't feel that it is. Frankly, I'm not sure how inhaling pot is any more or less moral than inhaling tobacco, or imbibing alcohol or fatty foods or being a hypochondriac and going to the doctor for anti-biotics every time you get the sniffles.
At which point, it becomes a matter of personal choice. So, if there are more prudish people out there who prefer to tell others how they can live their lives, they will the votes and force the other 49.9% of the people to hide their behavior and be subject to arrest if discovered. Eventually, they will win, and can stop hiding and stop being arrested. The people don't use pot will continue to not use pot, so they are not affected either. In fact, they can then start spending their tax dollars pursuing more rapists, murderers, terrorists, child molesters, tax evaders, robbers, burglars, identity thieves and other actual criminals.
Calling something "moral" like somehow you have the line on what that means is dangerous stuff, especially in something like this.
( Shadesbread) It is your narrow way of thinking that happens to be the problem of a whole entire Nation. Believe it or not we are all connected whether directly or indirectly. What affects one will affect all, you made not feel it immediately, but sooner or later it will make it to your door. Yes, we must deal with the Moral Character of our society, less wecontinue to breed animals with no conscious. One day one of these immoral individuals will cross your boundry, if they haven't already. There was a time when we all played a part in keeping these boundries for the safety of our children. Our children will one day have to live outside our personal sphere of protection.
What then, If the Government is setting the standards? This country is only breeding its backwards state of existence. So the crimes you named have been in effect since the conception of this society. That's for sure. But should we all be made subject to it? What determines right and wrong, is when your madness has spilled over into my yard. What determines this mark of demarcation, human consciousness. Which many today do not have. We live in a self generating society, which breeds rapist, murders,etc. But in reality we are all connected. What affects one affects all. Thanks for stopping by.
Criminalizing marijuana hasn't worked out very well, in my opinion. We have more people in prisons than nearly any other country. More than we can afford.
It will get worse when marijuana is legalized. Simply because the little man is not going down with out a fight. And the Cartel Drug traffickers are going to make a killing. This business of dealing drugs requires dealing with criminals. The jails are filled in Ca. because of the three strike law. Some of the people serving time haven't committed violent crimes, but their serving a life sentence because of a third strike. Now thats crazy.
You are entirely incorrect. There are no criminals when they are legal. There was no criminals involved in alcohol UNTIL it became legal. There were no criminals involved in pot UNTIL it became illegal. This is simple logic. Secondly, it it were to become legal, we wouldn't buy it from the Mexican cartels. The idea that we would is insane, and I cannot believe you actually posed it. It appears you really don't understand how this all works. We have an infrastructure in place to grow this internally, and the system in place to distribute it. There would be no involvement with the cartels, and in fact, it would practically eliminate half of their income in a matter of about a month.
So America has now become the cartel, great. Wikipedia's definition of a cartel is a formal (explicit) agreement among competing firms. It is a formal organization of producers and manufacturers that agree to fix prices, marketing, and production. (Private cartels from Public cartels.) In the public cartel a government is involved to enforce the cartel agreement, and the government's sovereignty shields such cartels from legal actions. Basically they are legalizing and sheilding drug sales. These people are wrong, it doesn't matter if the ( Government)is the Authority. You will see. This year will be one of the worse years of America. You may need your weed after 2011.
Lady, I am starting to think you might just not have what it takes to understand this. The government wouldn't be a cartel any more than they are a cartel with Pixie Sticks or Butterfinger.
So tell me, how will this year be one of the worst in America? We have had 7 straight quarters of record growth, and our corporations are raking in more profit than any other time since we began recording it. That is a fact. How are the scary people going to make your America so bad this year? What conspiracy are you into now?
Man please, America will never be mine; from the day of my birth into this country this was clearly understood. And I will never be America's property or it's mimic. With the treatment of Obama are you sure that your stacks are right? Since the stack is decked against him. Let Americans tell it, these two years has been worse then Bushes eight.
One of the major sources of income for major criminals and terrorists is trafficking in illegal drugs.
A vote in favour of maintaining stringent punishments for drug offences is a vote for maintaining criminals and terrorists!
You and I do not agree on much but yours is a valid point. There are serious personal consequences to the individual from drug use but the broader societal cost of the illicit drug trade is destroying northern Mexico.
Reminds me of an English politician, Tony Benn, decidedly on the soft left and all ways vilified by the right wing and their press as the evil face of socialism.
Though his star is fading now and he's more or less retired from active politics he still does the occasional guest spot on radio where he chats about his personal beliefs and political opinions.
After the broadcast there will all ways be one and sometimes several listeners who will phone in or email and say they normally abhor everything Tony Benn stands for and says but on this occasion they agree 100% with everything he says!
I don't agree 100% with anything anyone says including me. Count yourself lucky - if I start agreeing with you too much one of us has gone mad.
Northern Mexico is not the only country that is being destroyed by drugs,but the Youth right here in America are being destroyed. And its not even legal as of yet .
I realize this John, and this is the foundation for my topic. The demoralization of humanity. Right and Wrong, were is the mark of demarcation? I know that the young people are confused with the behaviour of this society. I am. And their anger and rebellion seemed to be validated among their examples. I hurt for this generation.
Let me get this straight.
You think that ending government tyranny is a bad thing because... ... marijuana is a drug?
When the gov outlawed alcohol, it became associated with criminal behavior. If cigarettes were to be outlawed, they would be associated with criminal behavior.
The ONLY reason why marijuana is considered evil and criminalistic is because our tyrannical government made the stuff illegal.
That is IT. It wouldn't be making us "drug dealers", it would be giving us back our right to do with our bodies as we wish.
Careful, sure you can cope with me agreeing with you?
Evan G Rogers;Many parents would seek to punish their kids for indulging in alcohol because of their age. Less say for a moment that you the parent has supported this behaviour of smoking pot before your children. So when this same child fights for his/her freedom to do the same, are they then punished for following the example of their society? That's insane. Yet it is said to this misguided youth, I am the adult. Being an adult doesn't eliminate you from doing whats right. As the adult you have an obligation to do what is right. Wouldn't this make you more accountable then the child? Their body is also their own, would you help them to destroy it? I am confused with those that do not abide by the same rules they expect others to follow. Otherwise there are no examples. Who would have ever thought that mankind would need so many stimulates today. Freedom can never be based on ones own personal self destruction when others are included. That's pretty Juvenile. This is what many of our young people say today. That they're in a zone and they function better when they smoke pot. When the truth is that thay are barely making it through school. Drug sales are promoted base on the ignorance and the absence of human conscious without considering the consequences of the whole. First it will be your body, and then someone elses. Thanks for your comments my friend, but real Freedom comes with great responsiblity.
I know numerous families who, with their kids (usually about 15+ y.o.), get together and smoke weed. It's like a family activity.
I know numerous families who get together and drink alcohol with their children (once again, these children are over the age of 15 or so). They don't drink like idiots, they drink just a bit, and life is good.
Just because some religious nut-job wants to ruin my life, and the lives of others, through government legislation doesn't make it "right". In fact, that is what is called "evil".
Adults don't have ANY obligation to do what's right - you seem to be making this up - adults SHOULD act "right" because it means they'll likely get hired and get a better job and make more money... but there's no REAL moral imperative to do so.
You make some great points here. It seems difficult for people to realize that we cannot ever assume to control another but we can try to minimize risks. De-criminalizing drugs is one effective way to do that, couple this with real honest education about drugs for kids and we can move on to trying to fix other problems
Real honesty is why are we even having this discussion? Kids are already educated about drugs. Haven't you heard. They're getting high with their parents, these are the best teacher. Right? My advice to those that want the best for their children is to grab your kid and run. Leave the druggies to themselves.
I was educated about drugs but the education (by the police coming to my school mind you) I was given was lies, fear mongering and propaganda. When I found out the marijuana was not a combination of LSD and heroin I found myself wondering what other lies they had told me? It was only when a close and dear friend went down the heroin rout that I saw first had what it can do (it ain't pretty I can tell ya). Same with crystal meth, we tell kids lies about the dangers of smoking put and they find out, guess what, we loose all credibility and are seen as lairs that cannot be trusted even when we are 'trying to do the right thing by them'.
Those that now indulge in heavier drugs started out on the light weight drugs. If you have friends that have indulged further in their search to get high as I do, they always start out on the lighter weight drugs. This is with everything. I was taught as a child that wrong starts in trends. It is the diminishing of conscienceness. What is permitted today was never allowed in my time, and frankly I felt alot safer. A lot of my Elders agree, and can’t believe that this conversation is even being discussed.
That is silly.
You're going to tell me I'm at a higher risk for doing heroine just because I smoke pot? Please...
There will always be people who make really bad choices. It doesn't take a gradation of wrong decisions to breed these types. Some people are just bad seeds, and would have ended up sticking the needle in their arm regardless of whether or not they also lit a joint in their lifetime.
Sure, some people have a "diminished consciousness", but so what? You can't control the individual's personal habits through legislation. Unless you plan on nerfing the world, you cannot protect people from themselves.
There is no evidence for your statment that soft drugs lead to hard drugs - except in the only words of sense I ever heard from a hard-liner - "pot is the rat and the desease it brings is hard drugs" but this is not an effect of the pot, it is the effect of the carrier or dealer offering harder and harder drugs in the dark secret corners of crime. There is evidence that soft drugs are best sold over the counter in the light of day - just go to your nearest bar and take a peek inside.
Marijuana was a gateway yes, a gateway to total disregard for the law, a gateway to complete distrust of the establishment. This was true for them and it was true for me too, not only do I have no trust for the government that says marijuana is bad but I actively suspect that they lie over everything. I wouldn't trust the government or police as far as I can throw them. This is the true danger you seem unwilling to see, that these prohibition laws put everything we hear into doubt, everything. Imagine you lie to your kids, will they ever trust anything you say ever again? Well I found out that I was completely lied to and I don't trust anything these government doctors say, not one word. My faith in this system of ours has been completely demoralized and it will happen again and again to others.
You people are always trying civilize your madness. The distortion of right and wrong in this country are deliberately being destroyed for the sake of unlawful imprisonment. Just to give an individual enough rope to hang themselves, history alone speaks for itself. America has never mind destroying thousands of lives just to save their own behind. So philosophy now is to destroy the brain . They really need to makeup their mind on what is right and wrong. Again you people are sick. I work hard to warn the younger generation against the sickness in the leadership of the day.The garbage you speak is only the bate of destruction.
The reason why Mexico is being torn apart by drug gangs is pretty much SOLELY attributable to the fact that is illegal in the US and other countries.
Make something illegal, and profits skyrocket because competition diminishes.
Want to end drug wars? make it legal.
"What has gone so wrong in America that we must result to becoming drug dealers to pay off our dificit?"
Government is already a huge distributor of drugs. They just want you doing their drugs, not yours (paraphrased from Chris Rock).
To me this is not a moral issue. There is nothing immoral about the cultivation and trade of a plant that has existed for tens of thousand of years; a plant that would exist even if we didn't.
California paying off its debt with marijuana taxation is just a little perk in a whole plethora of medicinal, recreational, constitutional and financial benefits legalization would provide.
In my opinion, the REAL corruption is found in those who wish to keep it illegal.
Its true (EPman),. It is a moral issue. Right and Wrong, this is what we are talking about. So when crack is put on the ballot ,you're in Huh? Crime will increase and morals will decrease. Many of the inner city kids have surcumb to drug trafficking. Even worse, the rich kids have joined in also. But the real bucks are going straight to the top. There is no other way for this amount of drugs to make into this country except it is allowed from the top. What has this society come to when right and wrong can no longer be defined? By the way, your Governor is the real reason for the deficit, and he's back to making movies. So dealing drugs is the only answer toa broken economy? The real crime was putting an actor in a political position.Thanks for stopping by,
If it is a moral issue than you are the one who is wrong for thinking you stand on some higher ground to condemn someone who smokes pot. Your views are more dangerous to a free society than someone who has a personal habit of smoking weed.
I am in favor of legalizing marijuana because it is its status of being outlawed that keeps a booming criminal market going. Inner city kids are sucked into this lifestyle because the black market puts a good deal of profit into the business, providing high incentive. There wouldn't be a booming criminal economy if marijuana was made legal.
And let's not start on the War on Drugs. It has created a bigger disaster than the one it sought out to fix.
You are no closer to defining right and wrong than anyone else. Get off your high horse already.
absolutely right - and about the high horse.
The criminal drug market feeds the criminal and causes more crime than any other single cause - legalize it and lose the crime - the junkies are already lost.
What kind of philosophy is this? So now your feeding the crime openly. It doesn't matter the affects it has on the brain. What is this, population control by way of self destruction?
This seems to be where you don't see what the argument is - if drugs are legalised the criminal distribution network is out of business. Nobody is ever going to stop people using drugs all the time they are available, and it is the effect of the crime on society that is detrimental not the use of drugs. Drugs are detrimental to the individual but then so is religion in my opinion and I still support anybody's right to believe anything they like.
Right and wrong can be defined; you are just wrong in your opinion of what is wrong.
So you are saying that I am wrong to protect my children from a pot smoking society? I am wrong to teach my children that selling drugs is not the proper way to make their money? But your government, they have the right. Standing alone has always been the greatest tool builder for inner character.
You are in the right to protect your children, from threats both legal and illegal. I am sure there are things that are completely legal that you protect your kids from anyway? Do you really need a law to tell you what to protect your kids from? Do you not teach your kids that by drinking spirits in large amounts can and will kill them fast? Do spirits need to be made illegal for you to teach your kids that overdosing on spirits is deadly?
I am not going to just protect my children, but any child that will listen. You have to protect your children the bile that is spewed out in the media. The greatest protection is the soundness of a child’s inner foundation. In Ca they have liquors stores on every corner in black communities. I can’t say the same for the white communities. I am sure when they finally legalize pot; the black communities will be flooded.
Are you aware that the people who profit from marijuana being illegal also trade in child sex slaves? By keeping this stuff illegal you continue to allow those criminal elements to have a source of income that supports their investment in sex slavery (this is in the good ol US of A mind you, not just third world countries). Keep this stuff illegal and the government cannot regulate or control, all it can do is ban and how well is that working out? The fact that these people can and do groom kids, isolate them from family, and eventually start pimping them out for profit (not for the kid, they see no money) and threaten the kids that their families will be killed if they say or do anything is down to the door that has been opened by the insistence of people like you to attempt to regulate peoples morality. Real moral.
So you gonna tell your kids that the pills they doctors give for depression are more dangerous and harmful then marijuana? I was on prozac, lost 10 pounds my first week on, they finally took me off when my weight became a real fear for them and that was not the worse anti-depressant I was put on either (not even the stuff that caused rectal bleeding was the worse). I was on one for less then a week (couldn't stand the stuff, got me high and I could not function to go to school) that 6 months later was the center of a huge lawsuit. Anyone who had been given it for more then a month developed schizophrenia. I have known pot smokers smoke for 40 years and not have that happen.
Wanna do some real good, focus on the real issues, not on controlling morality. In the 1930's prohibition outlawed alcohol, the result was more crime then the drunks had ever committed. We had gangs and gang violence, gang members corrupting the police. Sounding familiar? When prohibition was overturned the reason was that the law should never attempt to regulate morality, yet its doing it again and to the same effect, criminal gangs that are just getting worse and worse the longer we let them have the venue for revenue.
I understand this, and you are making a good point. Whatever is done in the dark, when brought to the light is regulated. Simple, I get it. So you really believe this? What happen with Wall Street, what’s happening with the pharmaceutical industry, because of a lack of regulation the health care and economic structure collapsed? America regulates what is beneficial to its government, not always that that is in the best interest of the people
I agree that there is no ideal and perfect solution, I just don't see us as standing any kind of chance of coming anywhere near an acceptable solution by keeping this stuff in the dark as you say. I don't know that we will ever agree on this issue but I am beginning to enjoy the debate
You have managed to push one or two of my buttons but I think that is probably unavoidable when dealing with an issue we both have strong feelings about. I guess I have to hope I pushed one or two of your buttons too, just to keep it fair!
I do hope you understand that for me, the current situation is unacceptable, a perfect solution impossible so I advocate an acceptable solution, might not be perfect but it's going to be better then what we got, complete chaos. An acceptable solution means we still have to teach our kids honestly, and lead by example but also let go when kids grow up and make bad choices. It's not easy but then again anything worth doing is not easy usually
I guess you saw this, I did apologize. I have a reputation for stirring things up, and I am known for being pretty raw. It must be my father’s blood, he’s a New Yorker. Anyway, when then kids grow up the foundation from which they build upon will be secure base on its flooring. Most of the youth I speak with talk a great deal about superficiality. I understand your point, but it does seem that there is no way around. Its been very informative speaking with you, thank you, Have Great week.
This is such an interesting discussion, I have to tell you a small story that relates to it. A few years ago, I was in Maine on vacation, when they were discussing a preposition of allowing the sale of beer (!) in grocery stores. I heard a lot of the discussion, driving in my rental car, listening to worried moms and dads, conjuring up the demise of America and its youth due to what they called unlimited access to alcohol for kids.
For me, coming from Germany, this sounded utterly paracoid and funny, since here in Germany, we don't have separate liquor stores, literally all kinds of alcohol are sold right in the grocery stores, and yet, I would bet that we don't have any more problems with alcohol as the Americans.
Alcohol is just a part of the things sold in grocery stores, nobody thinks too much about it. Yes, the young people get drunk, but this is in the first place due to clever mixed beverages, which taste like candy and contain hard liquors. The availability has nothing to do with it, they would buy it, no matter where and I guess if it would be prohibited, they would even go after it more (like in the twenties, when everyone was into heavy drinking due to the prohibition).
I agree with those who say that the illegality of drugs in the first place serves the interest of the prison system and secondly, the interests of the organizations which sell the stuff, since it would be way cheaper, if it could be sold legally and it would loose its nimbus as "the forbidden fruit".
I also believe that it is the multi-billion-dollar prison system that drains societies in the name of safety and security (both cannot be created by locking away small dealers for the rest of their lives). As soon as you can make people believe that you give them security, they will pay you whatever you ask for, especially when they have been frightened systematically over years with all kinds of stories about terror dangers and other evils of life.
I think the drug problem is a huge one, and I'm convinced it cannot (ever) be solved by making it illegal, because that hinders any solution, it just perpetuates the problem ad infinitum, since there is so much money to be made by it. It is only when this status as being illegal falls away that people can start to really deal with it in a sane way. I don't think that we wouldn't have addicts, I don't think that it would solve the problems, but I'm sure it would alleviate the pressure on those who are addicted and it would stop those who lure them into it for their own greedy little purposes.
It would stop making it such a lucrative business and that would help already. But since that would destroy multi-billion dollar businesses, it will not happen anytime soon.
The citizens of Maine understood the affects of beer and wine. Here in America there have been countless lives destroyed by alcohol abuse in every culture, especially among teens. So much so that laws had to be put in place to limit the amount of alcohol intake while driving. Yet again this became another legal means of making money. It seems that the whole point of this topic has been missed. Since it seems as if no one really understands the definition of demoralization (To Demoralize) is to put into disorder; to confuse. It is the very act of corrupting or subverting morals. To subvert a rule of standard for the sake of financial gain is corruption. You will be implementing more disorder. You can't control teens; you must lead by example.
I understand that more and more liberties will be granted in this country but at what cost? This doesn't matter, not in America anymore. Imprisonment has become one of the biggest money making industries in this country along with drug sales. So while we act as if moral standards have no connection to our legal decisions in this country, we’ve lost the real issue at hand. Which is (The Next generation), money isn't everything.
I think the point of the matter is, that you cannot resist ANYTHING without making it the most active thought in your head in this moment and therefore the most active vibration that affects your life experience. What you resist, you get.
Laws and suppression and stict rules are all resisting in nature, and they all create more of what they want to prevent. Isn't it so that everything gets more interesting for kids as soon as they are not allowed to try it? Isn't it so that every time someone tries to convince you that you see something from a flawed angle, you dig in and state your opinion even more vehemently?
Look at this discussion: it goes in circles and circles, but it will never get anywhere. Since you are convinced that your view is right and others are equally convinced that their point of view is the correct one, there is no real exchange of thoughts, it is just a digging in and pointing out the validity of everyone's point of view. But it will not convince anyone of anything.
We all have our own viewpoint, created by very different life experiences, and how we perceive the world, has everything to do with this viewpoint. I guess, the only promising way to come to peace with that is an attitude of live and let live. Your views are certainly in many respects deeply honorable, as well as mine or those of everyone else who participated in this discussion.
But gladly enough, the world is a diverse place, with room for every viewpoint.
And no, I really don't think that America is on the road of more and more liberties being granted, so that would really be something wonderful to see. I hope you're right and I'm wrong here, I would wish it for this country that I have come to love so much. Unfortunately, I see the opposite.
Excellently said and I agree. I’ve also gained a lot of informative information from many of my HP peers. I have learned in the past that those I didn't think were listening actually were. No matter how adamant they may have been about their views on the issue. I was also listening to my HP community, many of them made excellent points through the course of my rebellion. This allowed me to see from every angle and gain a greater view of the topic. Again you made an excellent point, thank you for your wise insight.
Please, please, please read what you yourself have written. Imprisonment in this country is one of the biggest money making industries, this is totally true and the only reason marijuana is illegal, the supposed side effects have been proven wrong, propaganda. I admit since allowing the criminals to be the only ones with any control over what is going on with marijuana we are getting strains that are too strong and in cases of people with underlying mental health issues it is likely to be the catalyst that causes symptoms to develop but to my eyes this is more reason for someone non-criminal to actually take control. Most pot smokers would legally buy slightly weaker stuff if they could. The thing is that in the 'weaker' strains there are chemicals that actually counter the chemicals known to activate underlying mental health issues, but yeah, lets let the criminals be the only ones with any control over the stuff right?!?!
I'm not replying to your post, however, I would like to ask you to stop posting your titles in all caps. It's bad form/etiquette for being online.
To be direct- it appears as if you are yelling or screaming at people.
Just a thought.
Interestingly, public opinion was solidly in favor of passing Prop 19 for months. Then came the scare tactic ads that turned the tide. A society stoned out of their minds (shades of "Reefer Madness"). Who do we think paid for those ads???
It's true that in CA our prisons are beyond overcrowded and overcrowded with prisoners who are in for drug related crimes. Possessing weed for personal use should not be a crime. Selling weed to middle schoolers -- just like selling them cigarettes or alcohol -- should be. If you commit a robbery while high on pot, yeah, you should go to prison. But not for just having marijuana on you.
The fact is, pot IS an industry. People DO smoke pot -- just like they drink beer, wine and spirits. People pay tax on beer, wine and spirits. They pay tax on cigarettes.
In a state that is desperate for revenue, doesn't it just make economic sense to legalize and tax marijuana?
MightyMom thanks for stopping by. But I don't believe that any of these industries are in the right though they make gross profit. They all destroy human life on different levels. I have resided in Ca. for just about 3 years now and I am dumb found by the lack of restrictions in this state. There are a lot of morally right things that can be implemented to generate income. Such as yearly car inspections and city taxes to drive on city streets. This would not only generate funds but reduce crime. Selling drugs should never be considered. We can not become so desperate, and in a need to survive a broken economy we sacrafice our own values. Now smoking marijuana is no longer a crime because the economy needs money?
Next it will be cocaine, maybe even crack. And who are we to tell a child that this is wrong if we indulge ourselve or support this behaviour? We are the first partakers of what we should expect from others. No one can speak to me about discipline, if he/she can not first restrict them selves. That's a fact. We are not really looking at the affect this will have on the younger generation. I mentored teenagers last year,high schoolers. Some of them have told me that smoking pot has hindered their whole way of life. And others stated that they could not function with out it, 9th graders. What example are we setting? What kind of message are we sending to them? If you think the children are rebelling now, you haven't seen anything yet. In 1999 when I lived back East. I spoke to a couple of drug dealers. I just wanted to hear their take on the subject. I ask them how could they destory their own communities by becoming a byproduct of the madness? One of the young men said , Ms G. you can't knock a man because of the way he makes his money. The users will buy from someone else so why not from me. I said to this young man the world is the field in which we plant our seeds and the effect of our planting will be our harvest. I said son you need to put some morals on your money. There is a right and a wrong way of doing things. What Now? Or maybe this doesn't matter anymore. Maybe this state will generate more criminals and users,seeing this will be the state to flock too without being arrested. What Authority can bring correction if they are not willing to abide by the same rules? It's not going to work. Yes' people do smoke pop, and the affect that it has on the children is devastating. What's next? I am afraid that right and wrong is being confused with economic calamity. And pretty soon the definition of right and wrong will be no more. Have Great Holiday
It was put to the vote, and didn't pass. So this is something of a non-issue.
I have been posting to the forums on hubpages for a little while and find that relevance is rare.
True. But it will be on the ballot in the next election, and one of these days reason will prevail, and it will pass.
Here is a question for you. A recent study showed some severe cognitive processing problems among long term marijuana users. How do we handle that marijuana does have a powerful effect on the brain and its development while drying up the money for crime lords?
The effects of illegal drug trade is imposed on everybody, using marijuana is a personal choice with personal effects.
The same applies to all drugs really, if somebody wants to explode their head and die or whatever other fate they choose, it should be their choice and not affect me, and more importantly my children. I say legalise all of it and make it quick and get it over with so normal people can get on with their lives free of all of it.
Make all drugs legal and after a couple of years of middle aged bald men shambling around the streets in cardigans and slippers clutching their crack pipes and no wanna be cool teenager would go anywhere near any drug.
Seriously, I doubt if any damage that blow does is any worse than the long term harm caused by tobacco or alcohol and we don't bother too much about them.
I strongly suspect the biggest obstacle to any sane drug laws is the potential financial damage. A few years ago somebody calculated that a very high percentage of the money flowing through the City of London (the financial centre, not the city) is drug related and that the City would fail if it dried up. Probably applies to all money markets.
Remember the UK declared war on China when they tried to stop supplying us with opium?
I think you have this ass about face John - It was US who traded opium into China in exchange for good stuff, and their so-called 'Boxer rebellion' was an unofficial attack on the colonising powers, including us, and the opium issue was one of the drivers of that 'war'.
If you want the US to take responsibility for the Anglo-Chinese wars then I'm sure perfidious Albion would gift wrap them for you.
Perhaps a closer reading might reveal to you that I am saying US as in US in Britain - if you want ot borrow my specs I left a really good pair in Wales when I left, they are in a hamlet near Aberystwyth
Well, it was early in the morning!
We aren't wildly in disagreement, we were forcing China to trade in opium against their wishes.
There must be one very crowded hamlet near Aber, I left a fair bit more than a pair of specs in a hamlet near Aberystwyth!
Don't know about crowded, full of the unwanted junk of people leaving maybe, including everything I dumped when I came to China
The best part of the place is the train ride out - through the not unattractive mountains, thousands of sheep, both Welsh people and the little flock of welsh speaking English civil sycophants, sorry I mean civil servants.
I'm surprised you're for legalizing drugs. Aren't drugs EVIL?! And our government overlords need to protect us from ourselves?
After all, the companies that will sell the weed will ONLY BE OUT FOR PROFITS, and they'll do ANYTHING to get us to smoke their EVIL DRUG!!!!
WE'LL BE SLAVES TO THE WEED COMPANIES!!!
Why surprised? I thought every country viewed any male with waist length hair a a drug addled degenerate! Oh sorry, forgot it was tied up and hidden.
I don't ever recall saying it was the government duty to protect us from ourselves. Have you any idea how much profit there is in illegal marijuana? And will they do more or less than tobacco companies do to get you to smoke tobacco?
Well, what's your solution? From what I've read the ill effects of marijuana are much less severe than alcohol and smoking cigarettes from your local drugstore. In any event, drug use/addiction should be treated as a health issue not a criminal one.
WE'LL BE SLAVES TO THE WEED COMPANIES!!!!
That it will be and hopefully I will be out of here.lol
No my friend . It may pass the next go around, so no it is not a non-issue as long as the possiblities are there.
At the end of the Day these are two topics that go together. Many of the arms found todays are found among our youth including gangbangers and dope dealers, this would include the Government.
Actually that was an oops. Sorry about that. But you must admit the topic is load and dealers do carry arms.
You Marijuana Takers are something else!
Doncha Know it will Make you Violent and you'll want to Rape a Nun!
Haven't you watched"Reefer Madness"?
If the Government says it's Wrong...then it Must be wrong...cause the Government is Never Wrong!...is it?
government is, by definition, the negation of liberty.
In answer to the OP - IMO, human culture is more accurately described as fractured and it is the impossibility of negotiating the crazed path we are on, alone because others are divided from us. We make our own realities and the mass of conflicting information, schisms and isms keep us apart, this is actively assisted by the imposition of unnecessary wars that require justification and BS like terrorism - all especially manufactured to keep everything fragmented and divided.
Human culture is a flock of sheep all running in different directions except one, and so slowly but surely being edged toward the abattoir by the dogs.
But sold out, what message does it give out the young if it is OK for the elders to sit there with their legal pipe and their legal glass of whisky, safe and free from any legal strictures when both alcohol and tobacco are two of the worst drugs in common circulation, and yet a joint at a party or at the end of a trying day of a not particularly dangerous drug can result in the loss of your career or even your liberty?
Gun control issues- demoralization of a human culture.
Okay Soldout, you have my attention. I didn't notice where you put your thread, and your OP dove into many areas of connection.
However, Gun Control issues are the same problem ever since the Gun was invented- Responsibility. It is irrelevant whether or not, drug dealers own them or if the average "joe" owned them.
It comes down to responsibility of ownership of said gun.
As for some of your other arguments, with regards to drugs? It is not a moral or immoral action, nor is it demoralizing to those who use drugs. Again, it boils down to responsibility of the individual to begin with.
Please do not relate Gun Control to Gun related crimes. That is just distortion and complete misunderstanding.
Guns don't kill people. Guns are just the tool used by People who Kill People.
What responsible parties are you referring to.? The drug dealer or the Gun dealers. Gun control is out of control, otherwise how do these arms end up in the hand of 10 year old children? I am not relating distortion but facts. Other wise why do guns exsist ? People can not misuse what is no longer available. Morals primarly deals with standards of Right and Wrong issues and just because you are fond of weapons, this does not eliminate the dangers and crimes that have been commited with guns when they end up in the wrong hands. Even cops have killed the wrong person in error. Gun are dangerous I don't care who's the carrier.
The responsibility falls to legal owners of guns. Drug dealers are criminals, what is your point?(and on a side thought, where do suppose they get their guns?) Gun Dealers either follow law or go to jail.
You actually have two separate questions for which you are relating to one another, just because you feel like it. Gun control is a farce, DUH! That's why I said to not confuse it or relate it to Gun related crimes. The reason guns end up in a 10 year old hands is because some JackA$$ gave it to them. Nothing more than the irresponsibility of the older individual. So please.
You are distorting the fact when you make statements without knowledge of the entire situation, which is obvious from your post that you are being lead by something else.
Guns are an invention, specifically designed for two purposes- (a)Wars and (b) Self protection.
This statement means you want to RIP apart the U.S.Constitution and I myself will fight you have single step of the way, considering YOU are not going to help other people defend themselves, now are you?
Actually, Guns are not moral right or wrong. You fail to understand the common sense nature of morality. Morals are tied to actions- what one does with a gun is what is determined as moral right or wrong. The Gun itself isn't.
Yes, there is no doubt guns are dangerous and should be handled by only responsible adults. It isn't YOUR place to rip apart the U.S.Constitution and it isn't YOUR right to interfere into what clearly isn't your business. Changing the Constitution with regards to the Right to Bear Arms is to remain in place, so people never lose the right to protect themselves by whatever means necessary.
So the Government is Criminal in their actions as well. The real drugs are coming from them anyway. They also supply enemies with weapons. I hope my grammatical error has not limited your ability to comprehend what I'm trying to say. I know in some way you believe that I lack the proper intelligence to communicate with you, DUH! That's cool I can deal with that. I can even deal with the brutality in which you express your views. On the other hand your means to bully and intimidate with knowledge and sarcasm are futile. I come from an era in which we were taught never to become the reflection of another man’s thoughts. I am a solid; you will find no vacancy here.
I have learned that with great simplicity the complexity of ignorance is dispelled. Guns are for the fearful and bullies. You live by the sword and you will die by this same method. Many have died with the same gun they sought to protect themselves with. So you are civil because you say so. Well the words that spew out of your mouth suggest otherwise. You honestly think I don't know that guns were invented? So was Chaos. What's wrong with you? The real distortion is that men find their security behind weapons. That's real distortion.
Americans watched men openly bear arms on CNN, when Obama spoke in 2009 at a town-hall meeting held in Portsmouth, N.H. don’t give me that crap about an amendment right. Have this ever happen to any President before in the history of America? That's distortion. I also said that morals dealt primarily with right and wrong. So of course guns in the wrong hand would be immoral. Weapons were created to protect the criminals from their own harvest. I personally hate guns and agree that the world has become more dangerous more so now than ever. America has bullied so many .We no longer have a good reputation and the only way to protect herself these days from the indebtedness to many nation is with military force. Those that bear arms deem themselves civil, but in actuality they have become their own worst enemy. I have never deemed myself educated simply because I am able to acquire another’s knowledge as my own. Though I enjoy many of the classical philosophical writings they are only stirring sticks to stimulate my own originality. I am my own regardless of my grammatical errors. And I will try my best to be very clear. I Hate Guns and I do not fear death or anything else for that matter. Take Care
Hey soldout1 - it's been a while. how are you sister? So with this prop not passing, what's going to happen in Marin County where it is already legal to grow pot (but not to sell it)? Any information on that craziness?
Hi,( couturepopcafe) actually I wasn't aware of Maren County. I never heard of the place. I 've only been here two years. But I will do my research. I think that our society has really lost it. How much are we willing to give up for the dollar? Where are the days when respect and honesty were golden? Have a Great Holiday, Sis.
Oh, legalizing marijuana is not "giving up". It's giving in... to sanity.
First birthday present we ever received from "Dad" Genesis Book not band, "I give to you every herb, bearing seed." Man has no right to regulate a sacrament.
As I said before if you need drugs to bring about sanity , what are you now? The economy will survive. You have a whole 2 years to figure it out since the bill didn't pass. Have Nice Holiday.
You're missing the point. Again.
It's personal choice and the deregulation of personal habits that will bring about sanity.
Whether we prosper or fail does not depend solely on this issue. It's going to take a lot more than the legalization of marijuana to bring back economic success.
This is quickly turning from a debate to a lesson. You are a stubborn student.
Yes I am, but when I get it , it's there for life. I speak from environmental experience. So maybe it's a little bit more personal. So you're saying deregulations will defuse personal hablts? And what way?
Deregulation can defuse the hype. People often go for what they are not allowed to have. Breaking the law and rebellion is part of the teenage psyche. It doesn't take much to succumb to peer group pressure.
I agree with this concept. All though I can't say that breaking the law and rebellion is restricted to Teens. What I have notice with many of the teens I have worked with in the past , is that they tend to follow adults that are one with their own words. Being a teen and making your transition into society is very complicated. Its hard. Its a reduction process, this of course will produce rebellion. Expecially when those that make the rules do not follow them themselves. Thanks for stopping by. Have a nice Turkey Day.
I'm saying that personal habits shouldn't be regulated. Period. You cannot protect the individual from themselves.
And we haven't even touched on the medicinal/positive benefits of smoking pot. And believe me -- there are plenty.
A good honest look at the situation and the choice is clear.
EPman, in all fairness there are a lot of negatives to smoking it too. I'm more disturbed, outraged is a better word, that the byproducts of hemp are not commercially mainstream. That's idiocy.
there are a lot of negatives to driving. That doesn't mean it needs to be outlawed or regulated by our "father" the state.
Alcohol is bad.
Some religions think that pork is bad.
You name it, and I can make a case for it being bad. And thus, by your logic alone, that thing can be made illegal.
Your logic lets government make anything it wants to illegal. EP and me are arguing for liberty, you're arguing for tyranny.
Deregulation wont stop stupid people from doing stupid things. My stem mom just died last week from cancer. She spent most of her adult life chain smoking (to deal with the stress of this modern world it would seem). Every once in awhile that was not enough and she had to 'escape' from a value system that left her very angry and unhappy (possessions defining value instead of personality or deeds). She would get sh*t faced drunk. She drank to black out. She always blacked out. I used to take care of her when drunk, had to try to carry her up a flight of stairs when she drank herself paralyzed. I suspect it was these very legal substances that contributed to her cancer (plus the crap food that was very much a part of her life). Sadly when she came down with cancer the only treatment she would try was chemo, and that pretty much nailed the fianal nail in her coffin as it did nothing to help but did make her even sicker. It is scientifically proven that hemp can help cancer patients. During chemo patients get so sick they cannot eat and throw up what they attempt to eat, their weight drops below a level that the body can actually survive and this goes a long way to killing them. By having hemp to ingest (yes I think smoking it is dumb, better to eat it so as to avoid inhaling smoke) they can usually eat and hold the food down. This one simple benefit (of which there are many many more for cancer sufferers) could have given her the chance for the chemo to kill the cancer not her, but it killed her first as she got to week to survive it. This is in my mind pure and unadulterated evil. You may be a good person who's deeds show your spirit to be full of kindness and love but this belief you have around marijuana perpetuates one of the greatest evils I see in our society and this is something I find upsetting. When good people support evil due to propaganda and lies. I strongly suggest you go out and do some real hard core investigation, of the roles of marijuana through out history, the real reasons it was made illegal, the scientific struggle to even research it to ascertain the purported dangers and the eventual discoveries made, also I would suggest you study in depth those societies that have no laws making it a crime like Holland. From all I have seen you post you sound like someone regurgitating the 1950's reefer madness propaganda that had no scientific backing as it was illegal to study this plant scientifically. On a last note to this post, please do not infer that my saying this anti-marijuana belief you have being evil means I see you as evil. Ignorance is usually the culprit for most evil in this world and I think you are probably a very good person, an outstanding member of your community, I also think you have been hoodwinked by people with ulterior motives.
Are you referring to the golden honesty of Prohibition? Perhaps the golden honesty of Al Capone?
You seem to be the one wearing the 'once upon a time this country was perfect and everyone was happy and good rose tinted glasses'. The post of yours I was referring to seems to forget that that golden age of honesty had criminal networks that gave people like Al Capone the chance to do the things he did. That golden era of honesty was also the era of prohibition and illegal drinking and I think that it was sick. It is sick to think that it was a golden era of honesty.
It was nice when I was growing up,we didn't even lock our doors. Respect was golden. I wouldn't have been allowed to look at Al Capone. Back in my day, cursing wasn't allowed on TV. I am telling my age. But yes it was better. I am from the era when TV went off before 2:00 am. Believe it or not there are still alot of good people in America that feel as I do. That's why we voted against it.
It is nice that you remember your time growing up with such fondness. I too grew up in a house with no locks on the doors (tho we had a gun just in case). This was the goat farm I lived on with my adopted mom and it was simply wonderful. The problem is that while I have fond memories, the world was not perfect or golden then, just because my experience of it was. My adopted mom had a rule with TV, if I couldn't tell her exactly what I was watching the telly went off, even if I had only just turned it on! No channel surfing to find something to watch! My life was what it was out of choice, not because any laws forced us to live that way and I suspect that your family was the same.
My mom didn't even by toy guns for my brothers, and she wasn't in church. I was raised in VA; it was pretty clean everywhere at that time. I'm more of a suburban type; I must admit that all of my time growing up was not pleasant. I don’t know if I could do the country. The era, in which I grew up protected the conscious of humanity, it did not exploit it. Profanity wasn't even allowed on TV, so my mom didn't have to monitor the shows. All programs went off by 1:00 am. For activities, in those days we walked to the mall and had fun. Commercials didn’t show bras on human flesh, they used manikins. It was different, the minds were cleaner. We looked our age. Today the young people say that I look their age, but in actually it’s the other way around; they look mind. My mom was a single parent home, so in the home it wasn’t all good; this has a lot to do with the flame behind my passion. The world was different. So you were raised on a goat farm, I don’t know if I could have endured that. It had to protect you from the garbage so many are exposed too. Back in those days everyone kind thought alike every culture, white and black, old and young and rich and poor. They basically all thought the same morally speaking. We had a few perv’s in the community, who didn’t. But the good over rid the bad. Not anymore. Many have compromised their values, for what?
If you really want to delve into what is destroying human life, try sugar and the junk food industry. The effects pepsi max is having on your children is abysmal. Next time you stick a Big Mac down your child's throat, have a think about what you are doing to the child?
Then make sure, in addition to the college fund, you account for the cost of treating diabetes for your teenager. It's only right and proper to account for the deeds of your current actions.
Perhaps legalizing marijuana and the tax it reaps will help pay for the medical crisis that is still to come - that being the crisis where Generation Y can't afford to help the Baby Boomers in their retirement or Gen X's who are too fat to give a damn. Then again Gen Y will probably be too fat also. So maybe everyone should just get high instead.
Somehow I think the world has it's priorities arse about.
I don't believe that these things are as damaging as smoking trees. But I do agree that these foods will kill you. I am from the day when cooking was not a sin. My grandson did a science experiment with Pepsi and we have no doubt it is a killer. It’s hard to protect yourselves from many of the foods today; organic is the way to go. And of course a home cooked meal. If the children get high then they will get munches, and Mc Donald’s won't have a chance. We were raised to be weight conscious in my family and discipline is very important. This word has been omitted. I would never give them the drugs to replace bad eating habit. I'm sure you are kidding. Why not take them to the gym. All jokes aside I really do not want to be lead by a bunch of dope smokers. Have Great Holiday.
It will come to pass - probably later than sooner that the processed food industry is slowly killing the masses. Is great that you are disciplined in what you serve to your family. Unfortunately you are an exception and not the rule.
Smoking trees is a small blight on the landscape compared to the obesity epidemic that is going to get worse before it changes course. Diabetes is more of a problem that weed ever was or will be.
I was definitely kidding in regard to putting ones head in the sand and smoking a joint to overcome the disaster.
And unless Americans become totally stupid, voting in dope smokers is not going to happen any time soon. Though you are more than likely to vote in a diabetics patient as President or Governor. But this is likely to be more than acceptable cause they'll have the same condition as your next door neighbor.
Jewel's we live in a philosophical system that has unfortunately dominated the external proportions of mankind. Humanity is only trying to fulfill the inner void that was created by a philosophical system of thought. Not even an artificial ego will accomplish this task. What I am trying to say here is that emptiness can only be compensated by external means. A consumer simply means void, empty, etc, looking to consume whatever to satisfy one’s own emptiness. This state was brought about through abstraction. Therefore trees will only create a greater wedge between man and his real purpose for being. Living only by superficial means will not only create hunger but disaster. Why would anyone want to add to this abolished state?
By artificial ego, you mean one under the influence of a mind altering substance? Sugar believe it or not is a substance guilty of altering the mind. And unfortunately Sugar is more prevalent and widely used in the world yet it's never addressed. Well it is now because of the diabetes epidemic.
Sugar is creating a wedge far wider than weed ever will.
Sugar is the drug that is creating a wedge between man and his real purpose for being. Ask the drug companies and corporate giants why they are adding to the downfall of man.
Everyone is trying to fill the void, some are more aware that it's what they are doing, others are clearly swayed by the meme and succumb to leminghood.
I'm sure if you did a survey between dope smokers and the pepsi addicts as to who was seeking to fill their void, you'd find that the dope smokers were the ones aware there was a void. The pepsi addicts would wonder what the hell you're talking about.
Back to the topic at hand. The legalization of marijuana is not about dope heads and never was. And the demoralization of human culture lies in a more nasty creature - the culture of the ignorant sleeper.
An artificial Ego is an external thought system. ABSTRACT. Yes' you can say an altered state. They were drawn away from themselves. Of course I know why they are adding to the downfall of man. Do You? You are missing the point, this is not a joke. Pepsi addicts would be offended by your statement and kick the habit today if they read this statement. By the way, you strike me as intelligent; yet you’re just as sleep as those that appear ignorant. I will never be considered as a meme, which is a unit of another man’s ideals and practices and thoughts. I am my own. To speak this way about a society that was deceived into the state they now exist is not only cruel but inflated. By the way, this is an artificial ego. One who lives out of who they think they are. Yet in reality they’re nothing but a thought.
I agree Jewels. The obesity epidemic is upon us and as long as we keep eating the crap that passes for fast food it will continue to grow like topsy.
We need to get these fast food people on the right moral path even if it means legislation.
When they advertise that they use the best beef, I always suspect it is not the best cut. Maybe entrails and toenails? They can still claim it is from the best beef.
Earnest - the best beef means it comes from the cutest cows on the farm! The ones with the biggest doe eyes and most pleasant personalities, as opposed to this guy
I've been trying to convince my family and friends to leave this garbage alone. Many of my friends have heeded to my advice, with proof I exposed the deadly poison that is being pump in these animal. Nothing is really safe. Not even store brought veggies. Sickness
Now this I can agree with you on! Aren't those 'super cows' scary! *shivers*
It's enough to turn a person vegetarian when they see it.
Oh !!! it was a super COW !!!! thought it was Miss McDonald America
Actually that bull has a naturally occuring mysotatin mutation which causes what is called 'double muscling'. As a stud bull it has probably not been given a hormone in it's life. It is best to have the facts before leaping to conclusions.
America is in the process of having it's best year EVER (throws up on self)! We've successfully killed Greg Giraldo, Bernie Mac, and now 4Loko. (RIP) At least we can look forward to Aliens returning on December 21, 2012.
December 21 is likely to be YK2 repeated. But I think it's a great time to test out the Rapture Button. What do you think?
Whatever Dude. This sick and warp thinking is the real future of America. The animals that were safely boxed in through Plato's Academic Utopia are finding their way out.
You really don't have a grasp of grammar do you? "Warped" would be the word tense you would use in that particular statement. I see that you have both referred to Socrates and Plato, yet you fail to understand linear logic or reason. How curious and sad.
How do you know, the less Grams the better? Do not determine my inability to understand by my grammatical mishaps? It could be a faux. I hate the LINEAR LOGIC, and reasoning of Plato. But Socrates on the other hand lost his life because of his refusal. I didn't want to use the (ed) at the end of warp, because there seems to be no end to the madness. I am not a fixed object. Nor am I subject to the opinions of others. You can't fix me in. Oops … Preposition use at the end of the sentence. What da world, clueless. Take Care
In VA I had a Mormon friend who was of course Caucasian. He said you know America has been killing Blacks and Hispanics for years by means of Medical and Scientific experimentation. Then he said now their starting to work on us, now we are speaking out. He was honest and most of us know that mankind has become a medical experiment. And a whole lot more than that. I've never been sick other than a common cold and I am almost 50, and many assume that i am mid thirties. I've never trusted anyone for my own well being, especially not Doctor's. The brain is not a good place to live, I call it a nerve quarters; a blow out can happen at any moment.
I don't get it. What does marijuana have to do with morals or guns?
If anything, a stoned person is more likely to be too lazy to fight with or without a gun.
A stoned person is more likely to laugh or be too paranoid to leave their house.
A stoned person is 10 time more likely to stimulate the economy.
A stoned person is more likely to shrug it off then confront a negative vibe.
My two cents.
Four cents later.
Guns are bad, they are scary, they scare people, they accidentally kill people, they also kill people.
Pot yes, guns no.
My guns do not gamble, drink, smoke, smoke dope, drive fast, hire hookers or use foul language. My guns do not jump out of the dark and shout BOO! My guns don't do anything by accident. My guns don't do anything at all.
My guns do the same things my hammer does or my stapler or my bath towel - nothing. However, as the agent, I employ tools to do things for me. Tools do nothing without an agent.
Wow! You mean to tell me intelligent people do not know what the defined of morals are? So you say that Right and Wrong are not connected to dope and guns, you’re kidding right? Trying to make Obama look like the criminal is not enough feed for your deep rooted deception? History reports that if more than one person said’s that you're wrong then you must be wrong. On the other hand I have discovered that in America whole mobs were absolutely wrong. You stand as one, and wow so many. But I AM ONE. Read Webster and do not be so quick to discredit someone. I am a stranger why be so hostile, are you mad that I don't crack? I don't know any of you people and what I said goes. I have neither respect for a dope smoker nor sellers for that matter. And like I tell my peers, they better wake up. Anyone that wants to sale you drugs does not have your best interest at hand.
Maybe you might pause for thought a little. Most people contributing to this thread would appear to have the same basic point of view as yourself, including me. However, you seem set on the old tried and trusted ways of dealing with the drugs issue - that clearly don't work, they also clearly increase the porblem not decrease it. The point above about prohibition is valid here, the gangsters and widespread corruption that came with that particular piece of moralising legislation were unbelievably more immoral than todays legal bars and grocery stores - that sell that previously prohibited drug.
Nobody seems to be 'for' drug use, only the method of curtailing it and its effects on society. Legalising the inevitable use just means the state is taking some control of its use and distribution rather than the crack heads, gangs and gangsters of today.
The measures you seem to advocate has already lost every battle, and looks set to lose the war !
I understand that, but in order to do it ,the drug itself must be legalized. My point is the way that this decision will be viewed by the younger generation. For years it has been considered illegal, they will not say now it can be regulated. Instead they will say it's okay now, we can get as high as we want, it's legal.
I would say the problem is that they already do. This is the same line of thinking that goes with sex education, if we teach our kids about sex are we giving them the green light to go out and do it. It is a balance that tips in favour of sex education when the majority of kids are already out doing it anyway and dealing with the issues that arise from it are more important.
I think it would be infinately more preferable for people to be doing what they are already doing in public where some control is possible.
True. Yet aren't the adults and government their primary example of right and wrong? What are we saying, that drugs are no longer wrong when we legalize it's activity? All in All It's a confusing message. Thank you for your response.
But we already do this in many ways, alcohol is legal, smoking tobacco is legal, killing people is legal in some circumstances. Laws and society rules are for the protection of us from each other - we fight against legislation that prevents personal freedoms. Drug taking only affects us through the criminal element of it - taking drugs is a personal choice and if you disagree with it then you should combat it in other ways as is your personal freedom so to do. If it is no longer illegal then the advertising campaigns about the harm drugs do and the information about their harmful effcts on the body will have some credence, at the moment they are being ignored because drugs are also in big part about the illicit pleasure and the secret sharing of the experience.
Thank you all; with great intelligence and much patience have you all tried to help me understand the decision for selling drugs to repair the states deficit. You all had very interesting views, and made very excellent points. You’ve given me quite abit to think about. I hope I didn’t offend anyone, but it’s all about having a stirring stick. Take Care and again, thank you all.
I have rather enjoyed our debate! On one or two counts my buttons where pushed but that is not your responsibility! They are my buttons at the end of the day
I responded to several earlier posts already and I would ask that you take them with a grain of salt as I wrote them before reading this. My responses would have been very different if I had read all of your posts before responding to them
It's cool, I am pretty passionate kirstenblog, and each of us being our own person requires opposition. The only negative is when you no longer remain you. I got what you were saying; this will also allow me to understand this topic on a greater level, without losing me. HP has an amorous amount of intelligent Minds, many topics could become intense. We just have to remember it’s not personal. This would include me. Lol , Thanks
"demoralization of a human culture?"
All we can do is consider the opinion
Even if it's true, there's nuthin' anyone can do about it.
The processes of evolution are functioning as they should.
WE'll either make it or we won't.
I see it being as simple as that!
In a few years, when yer laying serenely in your satin lined casket, ya won't even turn over in your grave when Mother Earth is vaporized by our dying, worn out Father: the sun!
...me worry? C'mon, be happy!
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