Facts are not Spin

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  1. Doug Hughes profile image59
    Doug Hughesposted 12 years ago

    The popular myth is that republican administrations are frugal & responsible and democratic administrations spend like drunken sailors. The facts suggest otherwise. The clear trend shows that republican administrations drive the national debt UP and democrats push it DOWN.


    The graph is from James Fallows blog on the Atlantic. His source is Chuck Spinney, a budget analyst who worked in the Pentagon in the Reagan years - not a crazed liberal. Read the article.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc … rom/66530/

  2. Rochelle Frank profile image92
    Rochelle Frankposted 12 years ago

    A SPINNY graph?
    Interesting that it is based it on president instead of congress.\ Not saying that is wrong-- but leaves out a lot of details.

  3. Cagsil profile image73
    Cagsilposted 12 years ago

    Doug when are you going to learn, the Dems are not any better than the Repubs. They are all corrupted. You set the numbers any way you like.

    They both have been bad, just one not as worse as the other.

    1. Dave Barnett profile image58
      Dave Barnettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A good spinmeister can take the facts and render them un-recognizable.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image59
        Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Perhaps, when you are dealing with opinion. These are dates and numbers and percents. FACTS.

  4. Rochelle Frank profile image92
    Rochelle Frankposted 12 years ago

    I agree , Cagsil.

    1. Doug Hughes profile image59
      Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The label 'democrat ' or 'republican' is not important. The philosophy is important.. Fair Taxes as a philosophy brings a balanced budget and promotes policies which provide for the middle class, elderly and the poor. As a CLEAR trend, one group has given away tax breaks to the rich while borrowing to pay the bills.

      That philosophy DOES make a difference. The facts bear this out.  The spin from the other side has built a false narrative.

  5. Reality Bytes profile image79
    Reality Bytesposted 12 years ago

    gotta love the FACTS!

    There are over 58 million dogs in the U.S!

    Dogs and cats consume over $11 billion worth of pet food a year!

    Fingernails grow nearly 4 times faster than toenails!

    Humans blink over 10,000,000 times a year!   

    In the year 2000, Pope John Paul II was named an "Honorary Harlem Globetrotter."!

    Every second, Americans collectively eat one hundred pounds of chocolate

    A fetus develops fingerprints at eighteen weeks!

    1. Doug Hughes profile image59
      Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Looks like you were afraid of the facts in the OP.

      Changing the subject is a good ploy

      1. Reality Bytes profile image79
        Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Your post is all spin!

        Congress spends the money!

        1. Doug Hughes profile image59
          Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          The president submits a proposed budget, which Congress may modify before they send it back to the president. The GOP is in the pocket of rich Americans and big business. I'm not saying there's not some democrats in the pocket of Wall Street fat cats, too.  Butt he TREND is pretty clear.

          Under GOP presidents, the tax breaks for the rich drive UP the deficit.  Democrats collect more than they spend and drive the deficit DOWN.

  6. lovemychris profile image74
    lovemychrisposted 12 years ago

    Here we go.
    Just hearing on tv about out-lawing abortion.

    Social issues--in MY bedroom, who I love......

    THIS is what your goal is. MORE gvt intervention in private lives--LESS taxes for rich.

    It's OLD and TIRED, and USELESS.

    Give it up--we want freedom from YOU!

  7. Mighty Mom profile image81
    Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

    The chart says BY ADMINISTRATION.
    That includes the Congress that was serving under the POTUS at the time.

    1. Reality Bytes profile image79
      Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yet the chart only points out Presidents, not which party was holding the purse strings during the administration.



      1. Doug Hughes profile image59
        Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        So with the debt rising as fast as it is, the GOP and teabaggers propose to lower taxes for the top 2% - the only tax bracket the president proposes to hold at the pre-Bush tax level - when there was a budget surplus....

        You show a chart which demonstrates the NEED for revenue - and in the next breath will argue against fair taxes.

        1. Reality Bytes profile image79
          Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Are The Income Tax Laws Legal? Is It Mandatory To File A Return?

  8. Reality Bytes profile image79
    Reality Bytesposted 12 years ago

    ad·min·is·tra·tion  [ad-min-uh-strey-shuhn..... ( often initial capital letter ) the executive branch of the U.S. government as headed by the President and in power during his or her term of office: "The Administration has threatened to veto the new bill. The Reagan administration followed President Carter's."

    *You spin me right round, baby
    right round like a record, baby
    Right round round round
    You spin me right round, baby
    Right round like a record, baby
    Right round round round

  9. ceciliabeltran profile image64
    ceciliabeltranposted 12 years ago

    It's a spin using facts...I'm was an adman, you can totally do many kinds of spin using the same facts.

  10. Doug Hughes profile image59
    Doug Hughesposted 12 years ago

    Congressional consideration of the federal budget begins once the President of the United States submits a budget request, which is formulated over a period of months with the assistance of the Office of Management and Budget, the largest office within the Executive Office of the President. The budget request includes funding requests for all federal executive departments and independent agencies.

    "The President submits the budget request each year to Congress for the following fiscal year, as required by the Budget and Accounting Act of 1921. Current law (31 U.S.C. 1105(a))[4] requires the President to submit a budget no earlier than the first Monday in January, and no later than the first Monday in February. Typically, Presidents submit budgets on the first Monday in February.

    The President's budget request constitutes an extensive proposal of the administration's intended spending and revenue plans for the following fiscal year. The budget proposal includes volumes of supporting information intended to persuade Congress of the necessity and value of the budget provisions. In addition, each federal executive department and independent agency provides additional detail and supporting documentation to Congress on its own funding requests."

    From wikipedia

  11. Reality Bytes profile image79
    Reality Bytesposted 12 years ago


    The Congressional Budget Process:
    A Brief Overview
    James V. Saturno
    Specialist on the Congress
    Government and Finance Division
    The term “budget process,” when applied to the federal government, actually refers
    to a number of processes that have evolved separately and that occur with varying
    degrees of coordination. This overview, and the accompanying flow chart, are intended
    to describe each of the parts of the budget process that involve Congress, clarify the role
    played by each, and explain how they operate together. They include: the President’s
    budget submission, the budget resolution, reconciliation, sequestration, authorizations,
    and appropriations. This report will be updated to reflect any changes in the budget
    The Basic Framework. The Constitution grants the “power of the purse” to
    Congress,1 but does not establish any specific procedure for the consideration of
    budgetary legislation. Although a number of laws and congressional rules contribute to
    the federal budget process, two statutes in particular form the basic framework.
    The Budget and Accounting Act of 1921, as codified in Title 31 of the United States
    Code, established the statutory basis for an executive budget process by requiring the
    President to submit to Congress annually a proposed budget for the federal government.
    It also created the Bureau of the Budget (reorganized as the Office of Management and
    Budget (OMB) in 1970) to assist him in carrying out his responsibilities, and the General
    Accounting Office (GAO) to assist Congress as the principal auditing agency of the
    federal government.
    The Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 (P.L. 93-344, 88
    Stat. 297) established the statutory basis for a congressional budget process, and provided
    2 Discretionary spending is that spending not mandated by existing law and made available
    through the annual appropriations in such amounts as Congress chooses.
    3 Direct spending, also referred to as mandatory or entitlement spending, is that spending
    mandated in laws other than appropriations.
    for the annual adoption of a concurrent resolution on the budget as a mechanism for
    facilitating congressional budgetary decision making. It also established the House and
    Senate Budget Committees and created the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) to
    provide budgetary information to Congress independent of the executive branch.
    The Budget Cycle. The President is required to submit to Congress a proposed
    budget by the first Monday in February. Although this budget does not have the force of
    law, it is a comprehensive examination of federal revenues and spending, including any
    initiatives recommended by the President, and is the start of extensive interaction with
    Within six weeks of the President’s budget submission, congressional committees
    are required to submit their “views and estimates” of spending and revenues within their
    respective jurisdictions to the House and Senate Budget Committees. These views and
    estimates, along with information from other sources, is then used by each Budget
    Committee in drafting and reporting a concurrent resolution on the budget to its respective
    house. Other information is gathered by the Budget Committees in reports and hearing
    testimony. That information includes budget and economic projections, programmatic
    information, and budget priorities, and comes from a variety of sources, such as CBO,
    OMB, the Federal Reserve, executive branch agencies, and congressional leadership.
    Although it also does not have the force of law, the budget resolution is a central part
    of the budget process in Congress. As a concurrent resolution, it represents an agreement
    between the House and Senate that establishes budget priorities, and defines the
    parameters for all subsequent budgetary actions. The spending, revenue, and public debt
    laws necessary to implement decisions agreed to in the budget resolution are subsequently
    enacted separately.
    Discretionary spending,2 involves annual actions that must be completed before the
    beginning of a new fiscal year on October 1. Changes in direct spending3 or revenue laws
    may also be a part of budgetary actions in any given year. When these changes are
    directly tied to implementing the fiscal policies in the budget resolution for that year, the
    reconciliation process may be used. Reconciliation typically follows a timetable
    established in the budget resolution. Other budgetary legislation, such as changes in
    direct spending or revenue laws separate from the reconciliation process, changes in the
    public debt limit, or authorizing legislation, are not tied directly to the annual budget
    cycle. However, such legislation may be a necessary part of budgetary actions in any
    given year.
    The Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985 (P.L. 99-177, 99
    Stat. 1037) established the sequester as a means to enforce statutory budget limits.
    Amendments to this act were designed to use sequesters to control direct spending and
    revenues (through the pay-as-you-go, or PAYGO, process) and discretionary spending
    4 These mechanisms were first established under the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 (Title XIII
    of P.L. 101-508, Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990). Originally enacted with a sunset
    date of FY1995, they were extended twice, through FY1998 (Title XIV of P.L. 103-66, Omnibus
    Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993) and through FY2002 (Budget Enforcement Act of 1997, Title
    X of P.L. 105-33, Balanced Budget Act of 1997).
    (through spending caps). Those mechanisms expired October 1, 2002.4 Previously, under
    these mechanisms, the budgetary impact of all legislation was scored by OMB, and
    reported three times each year (a preview with the President’s budget submission, an
    update with the Mid-Session Review of the Budget, and a final report 15 after Congress
    adjourned). If the final report on either the PAYGO or spending caps mechanism
    indicated that the statutory limitations within that category had been violated, the
    President was required to issue an order making across-the-board cuts of nonexempt
    spending programs within that category.
    The Budget Resolution and Reconciliation. The budget resolution represents
    an agreement between the House and Senate concerning the overall size of the federal
    budget, and the general composition of the budget in terms of functional categories. The
    amounts in functional categories are translated into allocations to each committee with
    jurisdiction over spending in a process called “crosswalking” under Section 302(a) of the
    Congressional Budget Act. Legislation considered by the House and Senate must be
    consistent with these allocations, as well as with the aggregate levels of spending and
    revenues. Both the allocations and aggregates are enforceable through points of order that
    may be made during House or Senate floor consideration of such legislation. These
    allocations are supplemented by nonbinding assumptions concerning the substance of
    possible budgetary legislation which are included in the reports from the Budget
    Committees that accompany the budget resolution in each house.
    In some years, the budget resolution includes reconciliation instructions.
    Reconciliation instructions are intended to identify the committees that must recommend
    changes in laws affecting revenues or direct spending programs within their jurisdiction
    in order to implement the priorities agreed to in the budget resolution. All committees
    receiving such instructions must submit recommended legislative language to the Budget
    Committee in their respective chamber, which packages the recommended language as
    an omnibus measure and reports the measure without substantive revision. A
    reconciliation bill would then be considered, and possibly amended, by the full House or
    Senate. In the House, reconciliation bills are typically considered under the terms of a
    special rule. In the Senate, reconciliation bills are considered under limitations imposed
    by Section 305, 310, and 313 of the Congressional Budget Act. These sections limit
    debate on a reconciliation bill to 20 hours, and limit the types of amendments that may
    be considered.
    The Appropriations Process. The annual appropriations process provides
    funding for discretionary spending programs through 13 regular appropriations bills.
    Congress must enact these measures prior to the beginning of each fiscal year (October
    1) or provide interim funding for the affected programs through a “continuing resolution.”
    By custom, appropriations bills originate in the House, but may be amended by the
    Senate, as other legislation.
    5 Authorizations are legislation that establish, continue, or modify an agency or program, and
    authorize the enactment of appropriations for that purpose. Authorizations may be temporary or
    permanent, and their provisions may be general or specific, but they do not themselves provide
    funding in the absence of appropriations actions. Although House and Senate rules generally
    prohibit unauthorized appropriations, both provide exceptions in their respective rules and the
    prohibition itself may be waived.
    6 CRS Report RL31443, The “Deeming Resolution”: A Budget Enforcement Tool, by Robert
    The House and Senate Appropriations Committees are organized into 13
    subcommittees, each of which is responsible for developing an appropriations bill.
    Appropriations bills are constrained in terms of both their purpose and the amount of
    funding they provide. Appropriations are constrained in terms of purpose because the
    rules of both the House (Rule XXI) and the Senate (Rule XVI) generally require
    authorization prior to consideration of appropriations for an agency or program.5
    Constraints in terms of the amount of funding exist on several levels. For individual
    items or programs, funding may be limited to the level recommended in authorizing
    legislation. Also, between FY1991 and FY2002, the discretionary spending provided in
    appropriations acts were limited by discretionary spending caps (these spending caps are
    described below). Finally, the allocations from the budget resolution made to the
    Appropriations Committees under Section 302(a) of the Budget Act provide limits that
    may be enforced procedurally through points of order in the House and Senate during
    consideration of the legislation. In the absence of a final agreement on a concurrent
    resolution on the budget, the House or Senate may adopt a “deeming resolution” to
    establish provisional enforcement levels.6
    Section 302(b) of the Budget Act further requires the House and Senate
    Appropriations Committees to subdivide the amounts allocated to them under the budget
    resolution among their subcommittees. These suballocations are to be made “as soon as
    practicable after a concurrent resolution on the budget is agreed to.” Because each
    subcommittee is responsible for developing a single general appropriations bill, the
    process of making suballocations effectively determines the spending level for each of the
    13 regular appropriations bills. Legislation (or amendments) that would cause the
    suballocations made under 302(b) to be exceeded is subject to a point of order. The
    Appropriations Committees can (and do) issue revised subdivisions over the course of
    appropriations actions to reflect changes in spending priorities effected during floor
    consideration or in conference.
    Revenue and Public Debt Legislation. The budget resolution provides a
    guideline for the overall level of revenues, but not for their composition. Legislative
    language controlling revenues is reported by the committees of jurisdiction (the House
    Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance Committee). The revenue level
    agreed to in the budget resolution acts as a minimum, limiting consideration of revenue
    legislation that would decrease revenue below that level. In addition, Article I, Section
    7 of the Constitution requires that all revenue measures originate in the House of
    Representatives, although the Senate may amend them, as other legislation. Revenue
    legislation may be considered at any time, although revenue provisions are often included
    in reconciliation legislation.
    7 CRS Report RS21519, Legislative Procedures for Adjusting the Public Debt Limit: A Brief
    Overview, by Robert Keith and Bill Heniff Jr.
    The budget resolution also specifies an appropriate level for the public debt that
    reflects the budgetary policies agreed to in the resolution. Any change in the authorized
    level of the public debt must be implemented through a statutory enactment.7
    Budget Enforcement and Sequestration. The statutory budget enforcement
    procedures of recent years have been part of the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit
    Control Act of 1985, as amended. Between 1990 and 2002, the act provided two separate
    mechanisms: spending caps in Section 251, designed to limit discretionary spending to
    a designated level; and the PAYGO process in Section 252, designed to limit changes in
    the level of revenues and direct spending by new legislation. In both cases, the
    mechanism was enforced by a presidential sequester order after the end of a congressional
    session. If legislation were enacted that would violate the limits established under either
    of these mechanisms, the President was required to issue an order for an across-the-board
    spending cut of nonexempt spending programs within that category. Although formal
    enforcement of these mechanisms was through a presidential order, by enforcing the
    allocations and aggregates for spending and revenues provided in the budget resolution
    consistent with these limits, Congress was able to use points of order to enforce them as
    well. Although statutory limits expired at the end of FY2002, Congress continues to use
    the concurrent resolution on the budget to establish and enforce budgetary limits.

  12. Evan G Rogers profile image60
    Evan G Rogersposted 12 years ago

    For anyone who wants to see that Facts ARE spin (it just depends on how you present them), please read the book "How to Lie with Statistics" -- it was written 60 (70?) years ago and shows how statistics can be used to show just about anything.

    With the statistics shown above, Doug is making an artificial link between his claims and the stats he shows. --- Doug says that "The clear trend shows that republican administrations drive the national debt UP and democrats push it DOWN. " , but his chart does NOT show this. Here's a chart about the TOTAL national debt in the country since 1940. You can easily see that the information that Doug provided is horribly misleading.


    At first glance, it looks like "party and frugality" are connected. At second glance, and through a few logical "thinking through things", we see that it's utter crap.

    For example, 1st off - congress is the group of people who pass budgets, not the president. 2nd off- numerous "the good ones" on the chart were republicans, 3rd off - Congress during the clinton years was republican, and.... ya da ya da ya da.

    Here's a website to contrast what Doug wrote with "which party was congress" http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovern … sion_2.htm

    I think anyone who actually analyzed that image that doug put up will see there is little correlation between frugality and party.

    After all, anyone familiar with the flying spaghetti monster can easily attest to the fact that world temperatures and the number of pirates are indirectly correlated.

    And finally - please take note that the claim he's making isn't even about frugality (which is what the graph seems to display ---- ****doug did not make the claim about frugality, I did *** --- but it is what the image SEEMS to be showing). The image shown is simply who made the "debt burden change". This can mean so many different things (increased spending, decreased taxes, increased inflation, increased borrowing, yada yada)

    Finally, I'm not calling Doug a liar - i would never do that. Even though we disagree a lot, he's still intelligent. I'm simply pointing out that even looking at statistics can be horribly misleading

    Please read the book "How to lie with statistics", I have it linked through some of my latest hubs.


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