Don't ask - don't tell:

1. 59

   mikelongposted 13 years ago

   "The right to engage in daily life and personal life and workplace/military duty without being subjected to lewd or inappropriate behavior and speech."<---Brenda
   
   
   Brenda has obviously never served in the military....
   
   As I've mentioned elsewhere....we had a few guys back in Arizona who liked to sneak into the rooms of other Marines during the night....  While their Marine buddies slept, these guys liked to sneak up on them and put their private parts on their faces....and take pictures...
   
   "Lewd and inappropriate" behavior and speech were the norm...
   
   In fact....to show how "homosexual" tendencies exist....even in bootcamp..when recruits would fall asleep in a class (it happens) they would be yelled at for "bobbing for cock"....
   
   That is what the Marines call it...  (Guy falling asleep and his head nods off.....and the Drill Instructors immediately turn it into a homosexual sex-act reference...)
   
   Brenda....what about all those fine Christian young men who had to get subjected to this type of language and characterization?
   
   I remember everyone thought the "bobbing for...." comment was pretty funny...and it was repeated by the recruits and Marines in the fleet all the time...
   
   If you don't want to be around sexual debauchery...don't join the military....for, from the hotel sex parties to the "see who can "bang" the fattest girl" competitions....you will see it all....
   
   As for a minister (chaplain) being compelled to marry homosexuals....the civil union would still work...  And, to get married, one does not need to have a military based church involved...
   
   Can we stop living in fantasy land...where everyone has a mentality of a 10 year old?

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2. 59

   mikelongposted 13 years ago

   Anyone who points to an "originator" of marriage and then follows this thought with "Being" with a capital "B"...is seriously misguided...
   
   "Marriage" defined as one man and one woman is not a universal feature of human culture or society....  Anyone who tries to paint this differently is 1) lying, 2) ignorant of reality, and/or 3) failing to realize that "marriage" in terms of Don't Ask Don't Tell is a non-issue.....
   
   The legal union....the non-religiously connotated bond that gives equal status under the law to a church-sponsored ritual is what will take place...
   
   Anyone who argues that enabling open homosexuality and such unions will limit the religious liberties of others is misguided....and to make an argument like this is completely ludicrious...
   
   So, I suppose the drunken, disorderly, sexually promiscuous behavior that take place on U.S. bases and in U.S. military frequenting bars, clubs, and hotels wouldn't already offend these "religious in uniform"?
   
   Arguing religious protectivism is tantamount to gender-based bigotry...I can't make it any more plain than this... 
   
   Let the Brenda-esq join the military and see reality for themselves... Let us see the sanctified state of our current military and figure out how "depraved" it would truly become.....
   
   Nonsense...

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   1. 82

      Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      "Marriage" defined as one man and one woman is not a universal feature of human culture or society....
      
      I only want to point this out - If marriage is not a universal feature of human culture or society, then who else in this universe is getting married?
      
      If marriage, defined as one man and one woman, is not a universal feature of human culture or society, then which societies/cultures have not had to change their laws to allow same-sex marriage?
      
      If marriage defined as one man and one woman is not a universal feature of human culture or society, then what other kind of society or culture is out there?
      
      And...
      
      I do believe repealing the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy is a first step toward legalizing same-sex marriage - gay couples (in the military) want the same benefits as non-gay couples (in the military).  Why else would anyone care to reveal their sexual preference?  Of course, I could be wrong.  But why does it matter what anyone's sexual preferences are? 
      
      I personally think benefits should be extended to whomever the service member wants to include - without having to give a reason.

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      1. 59

         mikelongposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "I only want to point this out - If marriage is not a universal feature of human culture or society, then who else in this universe is getting married?"
         
         
         I don't understand what you are trying to say. Please clarify your argument.
         
         
         "If marriage, defined as one man and one woman, is not a universal feature of human culture or society, then which societies/cultures have not had to change their laws to allow same-sex marriage?"
         
         I first look at what laws have been created in different societies...  I look at where there is a reach of "government" to even think of making laws regulating "marriage", let alone canonizing it in written law...
         
         Yet, the fact that laws opposing homosexuality have been made at all demonstrates the natural aspect of same-sex attraction and relationships...  The wave of Christianity across Europe and throughout the world (for the reason of enhancing conquest...material and human rape and murder for lust of power) suppressed many ideas about sexuality that were until then considered quite universal...even going back to the Epic of Gilgamesh (the first story ever written that we know of), the hero Gilgamesh has intimacy with Enkidu, a male partner created by a deity whose name now escapes me... 
         
         The greater fact that homosexuality has continued even in such oppressive environments as those found in Europe and the United States...where "buggery" and "sodomy" are considered capital offenses...demonstrates that homosexuality and same sex relationships (long term and otherwise) are quite normal...
         
         As for your concerns about same sex couples receiving military benefits....
         
         1) You are obviously ignorant about the rampant use of the "sham marriage" in the military...where heterosexual and homosexual men and women get married only for the increase in pay and perks that they receive.... 
         
         Face the facts...marriages are not taking place for "religiously ordained love"...
         
         2) It is sad that you feel that those who sign on the dotted line...giving up their lives for this country do not deserve the rights and privileges of such service...
         
         That is truly pathetic....and insulting... There are a few fellow Marines of mine whom you should speak to...  I'll let you tell the Marine staff sergeant (who is also a homosexual) that she and her partner cannot be honest openly, and that their service to this nation is not equal to heterosexuals...
         
         Do you want some phone numbers and email addresses to send your message off to?

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3. 66

   Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago

   Fate of Arms Treaty Tied to Policy on Gays
   By JENNIFER STEINHAUER
   Published: December 17, 2010
   
   WASHINGTON — Vexed and cornered, Republican opponents of the advancing effort to allow gay men and lesbians to serve openly in the military pulled out a final card Friday, suggesting that the future of an arms treaty with Russia was endangered by Democratic efforts to repeal “don’t ask don’t tell” at the end of the lame-duck session.
   
   Senator John McCain wants to amend language in an arms treaty with Russia backed by the Obama administration.
   
   “It poisons the well,” said Senator Bob Corker, Republican of Tennessee, on the floor of the Senate during debate on the New Start treaty. Mr. Coker said he did not think “the future of the Start treaty over the next several days is going to be successful” if Senator Harry Reid, the majority leader, continued with his plans to pursue the repeal, as well as an immigration bill.
   
   Other Republican senators echoed the view. More here:
   
   http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/18/us/18military.html?hp

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   1. 74

      Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nothing like being weak on national security to score brownie points with your radical base.

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4. 66

   Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago

   Don't Ask Don't Tell Repeal Passes a Key Hurdle in the Senate
   
   http://www.npr.org/?sc=nl&cc=brk-20101218-1156

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5. 85

   rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

   “If you love this country enough to risk your life for it, you shouldn’t have to hide who you are.” Senator Wyden from Oregon
   
   By a vote of 65 to 31, with eight Republicans joining Democrats, the Senate approved and sent to President Obama a repeal of the Clinton-era law, known as “don’t ask, don’t tell,” a policy critics said amounted to government-sanctioned discrimination that treated gay and lesbian troops as second-class citizens. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/po … r=1&hp
   
   great victory!

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   1. 0

      PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That is great news!  A very good thing. 

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      1. 59

         Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, anytime hateful, ignorant people are defeated our society moves a step forward.

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         1. 59

            Jim Hunterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thats right, and in January we get a new congress having thrown out the hateful and ignorant democrats.

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            1. 59

               Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You're a sore loser.  Too bad your buddies in the military will now be paranoid whenever they drop the soap in the shower.
               
               P.S.  The wingnuts only won the house.  There still is a Senate and President to stop the radical agenda you support.

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      2. 74

         Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Good news for anyone who would rather have their country forward than have their country back.

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   2. 82

      Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Excellent quote! 
      
      I also learned something - I didn't realize the don't ask don't tell policy was relatively new.

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6. 59

   Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years ago

   On a related note, did you hear about Michelle Bachman complaining that too much "porking" had been going on in Congress?

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7. 59

   Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years ago

   

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   1. 80

      Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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8. 59

   Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years ago

   

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9. 80

   Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

   Welcome to the 21st century Americans...

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   1. 0

      PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's kind of embarrassing that it took so long.

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   2. 59

      Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well, 20th anyway.  We still consider health care to be a pricey bauble reserved for our nobles.

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10. 59

    rotlposted 13 years ago

    Congratulations to all gay Americans! A big step towards them being treated as equal. Now let's make gay marriage legal asap.

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11. 91

    melporposted 13 years ago

    I see no problem with gays and lesbians serving in the armed forces. They are working side by side with others in every company, church, school, and any other organization in this world without any problem. Yes, I think the men and women at the frontline have a said in this then the generals. I am glad the ban was repealed.

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