Is this the New American Dream?

1. 61

   sannyasinmanposted 13 years ago

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP2OvOS_ … ded#at=128

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   1. 60

      Julie2posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      it is really scary when you here all of these statistics. living it is even worse.

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   2. 59

      Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      what's the best way to create a job? Destroy the minimum wage.

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      1. 59

         couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Please explain.  No seriously, not trying to argue.

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         1. 59

            Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            if you want to keep a job, but your employer can't afford to pay you $7.50 an hour, then you can keep your job by working for $6.50.
            
            But if the law prevents you....

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            1. 71

               Jillian Barclayposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Then if the $6.50 prevents you from keeping the job, reduce the wage to $5.50? Then $4.50? All the way down to $0.50? Great idea! Wouldn't that be progress?
               
               Could also end all those safety regs that cost companies money, but protect workers...That would help keep people employed-They might end up being dead, but would have died employed.
               
               Could also help employers by eliminating ALL their taxes! That would help to keep people employed!
               
               Think!

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               1. 59

                  couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Actually, I seem to remember some years ago, several companies where everyone took a cut in pay to save the company, including management.  But the companies were small.

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                  1. 59

                     Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     well, Jillian's argument has some flaws.
                     
                     But, indeed, if a company can only pay $.50/hour to its employees... they won't have any employees for long, now, will they!

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                  2. 81

                     lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     We went without raises for 6 years where I work. But my boss doesn't feel the need to reciprocate now that he's "made it". And who can make him? We take it or we leave it.
                     
                     No union. No real power.

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                     1. 59

                        Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Your boss made the company work?
                        
                        And you agree to work there for the amount of money he offers you
                        
                        ... sounds like he's doing things right!

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               2. 59

                  Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  you are completely ignoring at least 3 points.
                  
                  1) competition: If you WANT to keep your job, and you will be willing to work for less than an arbitrarily-decided minimum wage... then go for it! But if you are willing to quit your job and go find a job that pays more, then you are free to do this.
                  
                  If you work at McD's and they pay you $5/hour, and there's a Wendy's or Burger King offering $6/hour... you'd likely choose the others.
                  
                  Either way, minimum wage would at least let you keep a job.
                  
                  2) Real Wages: if every job around can only pay you $.50/hour, then it's very very very likely that things wont' cost a lot of money in the area.
                  
                  If McD's, Wendy's and BKing can only pay $.50/hour... then they're burgers probably only cost about $.45
                  
                  3) You can always quit and move. Just about every poor person today in the US has access to SOME form of transportation that will take them at least 100 miles in a day.
                  
                  This fact prevents you from you from using the "what if there's only one store in town" argument.

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2. 81

   lovemychrisposted 13 years ago

   54% goes to military and 18% to old military debt?
   
   That is quite different than someone here who said only 20% went to the military.
   
   Which is correct?
   
   The really sad thing is there is plenty of money in America. It's all being HOARDED.
   
   We need an honest assessment of who and what is running this show.
   
   But people will not "go there".
   
   People never "go there".  Try, and you get labeled and shut down.
   
   It's much easier to blame Obama.
   
   So, as long as we keep ignoring the truth, and supporting the lie, we will get more of the same.
   
   Some people need a 2-by-4 to the head before they wake up.

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   1. 81

      lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      READ THIS!!!:
      
      GORDON DUFF: GOV. JESSE VENTURA PROVES 9/11 COVER-UP, WILL AMERICA’S GOVERNMENT FALL?
      December 18, 2010 posted by Gordon Duff · 
      
      FORMER VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY ACCUSED OF ENGINEERING PENTAGON ATTACK
      DONALD RUMSFELD CITED AS POSSIBLE ACCOMPLICE
      
      By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor
      
      ****
      Face the truth or we die in the lie.

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   2. 60

      BillyDRitchieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Even if money were being hoarded, it's THEIR money to hoard.  What part of "it's their money" do you fail to understand?

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      1. 81

         lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It's MY money too...which part of "hold the bastards accountable" don't you understand?
         
         Do we not still pay Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rice etc etc etc etc etc ?
         
         Won't we until they die? And their families too?
         
         Part of living here in the USA is paying taxes. These greed-balls want to get rich and pay nothing to the country that made them so.
         
         Meanwhile, the middle class is being asked to anti-up more and more to make up for it.
         
         All these wars and Private contractors cost a fortune you know.

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         1. 60

            BillyDRitchieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Remind me again how money they earned is your money, too?  Really?
            
            I've been an adult for over a quarter century, I've made a little, and I've made a lot, but I have never felt that I was entitled to money that someone else earned.
            
            Sometimes you run across a mindset that is just disturbing on numerous levels....

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            1. 59

               Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Don't try "pointing out the obvious" to lovemychris.
               
               I've tried, s/he just fails to see it.
               
               But, I would like to point out this fact:
               
               In order for socialism to work, you do HAVE to have the mindset that other people's money is yours.
               
               This obvious misconception is what led Marx to argue that one man's gain is anothers' loss. This is clearly incorrect. Why would two people trade voluntarily (i.e., go buy some gas at the gas station) if one was getting screwed over?
               
               Any time a trade happens, all involved benefit (so long as it's voluntary. Note that this excludes government purchases: government can't do anything "voluntarily" because a) it's not an individual, and b) it is using other people's money that it acquired through theft.)

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            2. 81

               lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You mis-understand.
               The money I earn is my money. And I have to pay taxes too.
               
               I don't like where a lot of it goes, but I don't act like it's a crime against me to pay taxes.

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               1. 59

                  Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  So, when someone steals your money at gunpoint, and then uses it to buy crack, you DO consider it a crime...
                  
                  But when someone steals your money with the threat of throwing you in jail at gunpoint, and then they use it to murder people in a land far-far away... you DON'T consider it a crime?
                  
                  Error... error... error...

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         2. 59

            couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Billy, you'll never convince her otherwise.  But I have to agree with lmc on the fact that politicians, congress, presidents should not be paid for the rest of their life for putting in a few years in office.  And of course holding them all accountable goes without saying.  I also think when the new congress is voted in, the old guard should vacate their offices within the week.

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            1. 81

               lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               What about Bush and company? What about that?
               and Ummmm, the "new" Congress is all the old Republicans!!
               
               You completely give them a pass.

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   3. 0

      Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      According to various international reports, America spends 70% of its tax money on weapons, and has more weapons than the entire rest of the world put together.
      
      I guess that makes it the most powerful country in the world.
      
      N'est Pas?

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      1. 59

         Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         ermm....
         
         no.
         
         As much as I hate government, this simply isn't correct.
         
         http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … Y_2007.png

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         1. 0

            Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If I remember correctly, that chart does not include the cost of the current war.
            
            This is closer...
            
            http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm
            
            But remember that was the analysis in 2009 using earlier figures.

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            1. 59

               Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               even with the link you gave, it's barely over 50%, not 70.
               
               But hey, I hate war!

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      2. 81

         lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, but who are we fighting for? Why do we have these "enemies"?

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            Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Now, that's not a question I can answer. I've only been in the US 7 years. But America is always conducting wars all over the place.
            
            In the mid 70s, a friend of mine was an operative. He told me that the CIA made an arrangement with South Africa to go to war with Angola. The South African public had no idea that South Africa had invaded Angola.
            
            I knew because I had been in Europe, and right up until the moment I walked into South Africa, had known what was going on. There was a complete ban on the press. South Africans found out nearly four years later...
            
            I have no idea why America is always going to war.
            
            When I was living in England early 70s, there were bombs going off all over the place (IRA). England did not invade Ireland. She used diplomacy for years on end until the IRA stopped the bombing.
            
            Right now, the 9/11 has cost more lives than were lost in the original bombing. And the price in terms of money is something that is going to be paid for a very long tiem. Who exactly did win this war?

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         2. 59

            Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Blowback from bombing people. The CIA talks about this, and Ron Paul brought it to light in the 2008 election campaign.
            
            Basically blowback is: "You know when you go into a country and murder people? yeah, they don't like that"

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               china manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               AT last - somewhere we can agree ! 

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3. 59

   BobbiRantposted 13 years ago

   Probably ONE generation experienced the elusive myth of the American Dream, the generation following WWII.  They got the pensions after 35 years of working for a company because they were needed to make corporations stronger.  The next one (Boomers) do not get that, neither do the following generations.  American Dream, juse One generation lived it, experienced it, just the short term elusion carrot on the stick to try to convince us all we could get it.  Not so.

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   1. 59

      couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'd like to know what everyone considers the American dream.  It used to be the cliche house with white picket fence and 2.5 kids.  Probably the car and the dog thrown in .  You're right, Bobbi, that was the dream of the post WWII generation, most of them children of immigrants.  Then came the Boomers, the Hippies who really wanted none of that until they grew up and realized and started making their own money.  There was the boom of the 80s and 90s.  Once we lost the manufacturing industry to overseas, that's when it all started to turn down.  Good intentions, bad policy, balance is tipped too far to other countries by our government's own doing with their trade policies.  I still say stop giving all foreign aid except in extreme catastrophic emergency, create stricter trade policies like Germany did, with which the E.U. must now be in compliance.  It doesn't take much to stand up with a backbone and tell the world this is how we're doing things.  And we need to stop borrowing money.

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      1. 57

         C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well said!

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         1. 67

            Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            One of the reasons manufacturing left this country is because unions have made it too expensive to make anything here.  It's logical that low skill manufacturing goes to developing countries.  People assume things will continue as they are and they don't save for the rainy day and buy more than they can afford.  We get these wake me ups every ten years it seems and yet people still can't seem to connect the dots.
            
            oops - this is also for coutourepop.

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            1. 57

               C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Agreed. However, when some one suggest that we use tarrifs and taxes to controll the trade deficit they are accused of being a "protectionist" or an "isolationist".
               As you stated, people refuse to connect the dots. The most impressive thing UNIONS have ever manufactured is the coffin that US labor now lays in. Bush 1 pushed the Unions into the coffin when he came up with NAFTA. Clinton drove the nails in the coffin when he signed NAFTA. Obama bailed out GM with our money and gave GM to the Unions. We are sooooo screwed as far as the domestic auto industry goes.
               
               So, what do we do now? There is a problem that you mentioned. During the begining of the industrial revolution farmers came to the industrial centers to work in factories. This work was almost exclusively manual labor. That easily translated from farm work...working with your hands. Now fast forward and try and translate factory work over to "cubicle" work. It doesn't translate very well. I'ts a problem. We are moving towards what's being called a "technology" based economy. That's just another term for "Service" based econonmy. Unfortunately a service based econonmy typically only exist and thrives when there is a strong manufacturing base.

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               1. 67

                  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Oh, I definitely think GM and Chrysler are the walking dead.  Ford is the only viable auto manufacturer we have.  That whole NAFTA was a mistake.  We lost manufacturing jobs to Mexico and any money that Mexico would have made went to line the pockets of thieves in the Mexican gov't.  That country is no better off than pre-NAFTA and if anything the corruption got worse.  But you know what they say about hindsight.  No more free trade agreements with the Mexican gov't after that disaster.

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                  1. 59

                     couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I wish there were a way to get rid of the unions.  They served a purpose at one time and were run by thugs.  Now there are enough labor laws in place so they are simply outmoded.  Now they are still trying to thug their way into the workplace and causing problems.  Why are they exempt from the health care mandate?  And why are high-tech corporate farms getting subsidies?  That should be a thing of the past, too.  It served a purpose when small farms were forced to stop growing due to saturation of the market.  Now, if there's too much wheat, grow something else.  It's better for the soil as well, to rotate crops.  Why the hell does everyone in the world get free from the U.S. government except the middle class?  I'm not counting the upper economic class, because they tend to be able to fend for themselves.

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4. 70

   Bill Manningposted 13 years ago

   I'm actually doing better than I ever have in my life. All because I decided to be my own boss and do my own work.
   
   You sure can't depend on anyone else today. How can you be happy when you don't know how long your job will last?
   
   I'm just glad I did all this now before the economy went south, otherwise I'd be out of work also. Oh, I'm a HS drop out too.

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   1. 0

      Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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   2. 59

      Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      totally personal question that you don't need to answer...
      
      what type of job do you do?
      
      And finally,
      
      sorry that all the people on these forums think that you owe them something.
      
      keep up the hard work.

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      1. 70

         Bill Manningposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Heck I thought everyone here knows what I do. I run around 2 dozen different websites and write for a few places like Hubpages.
         
         That's it.
         
         Of course, it takes all my time and I work every day. I'm also always trying to figure out what is the next big thing for online stuff, as the way things work now will not be in a few years. 
         
         Your right, I don't feel like I owe anyone anything. I worked my butt off for years, slowly learning all on my own how to make a buck offline doing it all the honest way.

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   Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years ago

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0

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   1. 59

      Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The speaker in that post made numerous idiotic mistakes.
      
      He calls "socialism" "capitalism" and then proceeds to blame companies for the faults of government.
      
      It was interesting to see him blame HAYEK for KEYNES' mistakes. That was QUITE impressive. Astonishingly foolish on his part. Absolutely amazingly dumb.
      
      I thought it was amazing as well that he kind of insulted the only school of thought that truly did see these things coming. The Austrian School of Economics predicted the Tech Crash, Predicted the Housing Crash, and many many many other crashes. For the first two listed, you can actually find free videos online of Austrian Economists discussing the oncoming Tech Bubble collapse AND the Housing Collapse years before each occurred (respectively).
      
      It was interesting to see that so many people bought into that.

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6. 71

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Well, I don't think anything new can become the American Dream, considering the original American Dream was never realized to begin with, because of business misinformation and political distortion of truth.
   
   So, any new American Dream, will also remain unrealized, just like the old one- which in layman's terms- the status quo continues.

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7. 82

   Tom Cornettposted 13 years ago

   I've worked in the fields of big farmers, the factories of businessmen and the slums of landlords.  Nobody was living any kind of dream but the owners.

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