Over One Million Iraqi Deaths Caused by US Occupation based on research by Michael Schwartz, posted on Voltaire Network (mostly families)
Not one Iraqi person has been known to kill a single American on USA soil.
Which country has absolutely acted in self defense?
The figure on Iraqi deaths is closer to 100,000 at the point in September, 2010 when the last U.S. combat troops left Iraq. That's not to diminish their lives or deaths and it's certainly not my commentary on war but posted only to highlight how resources often skew numbers.
The answer is obvious. I have several Iraqi-American friends in the Detroit area who have relatives in Iraq. Every one of them believes that our invasion was a mistake and our occupation a disaster.
I guess they will be along shortly to justify this. I got attacked by the dummies and deniers for pointing out the 6 million plus dead in Vietnam for 85,000 Americans. Nothing much changes does it.
I just love to hear them try to justify this Iraq war. As it is the most expensive US war in the past 60 years.
A person is braver not to kill than to kill.
Any truth warriors out there.
If the super power of global public option dose not stand up than the super power of the military complex will walk all over you and our world poverty too.
I believe that the war on drugs is actually the most expensive war America has been dragged into. Definately the most costly in terms of American lives that have been ruined or destroyed for profit by those who run our government.
Really? I thought that the CIA drug trafficking conspiracy was one of the most widely believed? You could call it taking out the competition?
Today marijuana in the top agricultural cash crops in 30 states and America number #1 Crop is Marijuana. Takes place in marginal areas not usually associated with agricultural production. .... Tops in
The World Farm,
Agriculture is number two TOP USA incomes, behind Real Estate.
When out of 25% of the world’s prisons are in America, how many pot smoking inmate do you think there are in jails, maybe learning a new trade in crime?
The deniers and dummies are a minority. Of course they were in the majority in 2003 at the time of the foolish, costly, unnecessary invasion, thanks to the lies of Bush and Cheney and the support of the foreign policy establishment and the mainstream media including the Washington Post and the New York Times.
It is an open air concentration camp, effectively. American and British occupation has served only to drive more and more liberal Muslims to extremism and anti-western sentiment.
The hotbed of Islamic extremism is Saudi Arabia, if the wars were a genuine fight against terrorism, then we would be there. It just so happens that Saudi's hold billions of dollars of investment in western economies, a war there would bring financial loss and not financial profit.
Sad to say. I don't say that to my friends in the British military, in case I cause offence. Plenty of them say it to me though.
"Defence" spending, which should be renamed "Offence" spending, is more to blame for the American and British economic situation than the banks. If only people would wake up and smell the coffee.
They squeezed everything they could out of Iraq and have now moved onto Afganistan. They are simply moving to a new country and supplying themselves with a new 10 year war to profit from. I wonder how many pallets of 100 dollar bills they'll lose this time around?
They hide the fact that our armed forces are conducting night time bombing runs on civilians. They hide the truth about the slaughter of entire villages by our soldiers and punish those who dare to tell the truth about it. They lock up an America soldier who hasn't been to trial or charged with a crime for going on a year now, in solitary confinement which has been classified as torture by the UN and is illegal under the geneva Convention.. They treat our soldiers like they treat terrorists and most Americas rushes to condemn the person telling the truth. Tis the new American way. They show a bideo of airforce members discussing the live killing of innocent civilians and the commentary runs like a video game. Americans get nmad that the video is released. Has even one of them considered how much harm our government is causing with the sanctioned killing of civilians? This does more to force people into the mindset that blowing up a few American citizens is a worthwhile objective. Your government is developing the very terrorists that will be headed this way soon and Americans get mad that someone told them about it, not that it's being done. I do believe that the average IQ for a large portion of America is dangerously close to single digits.
STAND TALL, stump, lots of details.
Don't be so hard on the average IQ, for Bush had an IQ of 89, all though it was the lowest of any president recorded. He made it as a cheer leader through Yale, OOW RAH.
How did so many people voted for him, twice.
It will take a lot of work to turn this mess around
Sry cant do that, our lowered national average IQ is a result of the systematic destruction of our educatioal system over the last 30 years. As a nation we are raising a country full of idiots and wondering why they do such stupid stuff.
Bush also made the guiness book in 2003 for putting more millionaires in government jobs that any previous president. For the life of me I cant figure out why middleclass and below vote for the repubs. Blind stupidity is the answer with the most data to support it.
It's no wonder there is so much hatred for the west in the Arab world. Everyone should read Robert Fisk's work on the MIddle-East, he is fascinating to read or watch on video
I agree with you and you are brave to confront the issue, even just with your honesty. I'm cautiously brave and my biggest pet peeve is these bullies.
People are so very afraid to confront the offence spending. Most of the people do not like war, yet the rich and media do.
A factions of the USA military budget could cure most of the world poverty, in which is the greatest killer of all.
They say 9/11 was the greatest attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor, YET no Iraqi were on those planes, but 15 Saudi were. When if Japan attacked USA, why would USA attack Indonesia?
Thank you for your insight
Well one reason to attack indonesia is to prop up a puppet government that you will get to attack in about 10 years or so when they get tired of our crap. Look how many of the governments we have attacked of late that were put in place and supported by Bush senior when he ran the CIA.
As far as 9/11 goes, I have no idea what really happened that day but I do know that the official story is a load of crap. They lie to us, we know they are lying and most play right along and pretend otherwise.
The Bush family ties run back quite a few decades with the royaly of Saudi Arabia. One of their princes financed at least two companies that Bush junior ran into the ground before trying his hand at politics.
I believe it was Bin Laden's nephew that was attending the prep school in Exeter New Hampshire and on the night of 9/11. His was the only plane allowed to fly that night. All American airspace had been cleared and even Bush senior was grounded. The government got this relative of Bin Laden out of the country by plane when no American was permitted to fly? Additional Saudi's were allowed to leave before they could be questioned about an attack that originated in their country. Make perfect sense doesn't it?
As I often repeat, education in this country is at the root of our problems. We need to start by teaching students something other than the typical understanding of our world that is demonstrated in this map of the world.
trying to resize, probably wont work considering my puter skills, lol
Hey, Stump. I'm not taking any sides here, but it seems to me the propaganda you're running is equally as misleading as the government's propaganda. You say you don't know anything about what happened on 9/11 but you're sure they're lying and go on to give examples of Bush's inept handling of things. Once again, I don't like to take sides in these arguments but it makes sense that Bin Laden's nephew would be allowed to leave under a controlled environment.
couture do you know exactly what happened that day? I am not misleading anyone. I am stating that I live in a country that has been misled. The official story doesn't add up to the truth on many levels. The level of ineptness exhibited by entire sections of our government under Bush should be explored and charged drawn up against those who broke the law. That wont happen and you know it as well as I do. You also know that their guilt is of little concewrn to most on the right as it created a oppurtunity for the good Christians in Amrica to restart their beloved crusades. As long as Americans have someone or something to direct their hate towards, they are happy. If a bunch of innocent muslim children have to die for Christians to feel good about themselves so be it. Them damned no account muslims better not even think of taking offense at the death of hundreds of thousands of their people so Americans can drive a bigger car. What right do muslims have to live when their death brings so much pleasure to so many american christians? Sorry but I am taking sides and it's against your god who makes you think your supposed to kill and torture those who think differently, pray differently, look differently, or heaven forbid, have sex differently than you.
and yet, we're funding the invasion through our tax money...
... which if we don't pay, we'll be thrown in jail...
... and we call ourselves free...
USA has 5% of the world's population and, 25% of the world's jail
Why dose USA needs 1/2 the World's war budget for self defense OR should I say offence. USA has one of the worst health care systems for 1st world Nation's.
I think over Capitalism is finally a UN issue
Worst health insurance systems? Maybe. Some of the best health care? Probably.
But as I argued elsewhere, in surgery perhaps, but how many have surgery and how many are treated with prescription drugs.
If I go to my GP and he prescribes me drugs that are either US made or made under license from a US company, how then does US health care become better than UK health care?
John - point taken. I am a strong advocate for the non-use of prescriptions unless there is no alternative. I never meant to compare us to any other country. In fact, I'd like to find a way to strengthen laws which govern the approval and release of drugs. I just can't accept all these new drugs on the market which, a few years later, are recalled or embroiled in lawsuits because of side effects.
I too am an advocate for the none use of prescription drugs. I was just making the point that for most people there is no real difference between US and UK health care, except that in the UK it costs a fraction of the cost that those in the US pay.
Don't they have national health care? Long lines and long waits for appointments? I went to an HMO dermatologist once and, although I had an appointment for which I waited 3 months, I still sat in the waiting room for almost 3 hours. They pack them in because they get paid by the bulk, not by individual patients.
What Americans do not seem to appreciate is that the existance of a good quality national health service forces private healthcare to become competitive pricewise.
There is no restriction on private healthcare in the UK as a result of nationalised healthcare, anybody can go private if they wish. It is also much cheaper than health insurance in the US as a result of the existance of a free alternative. Most people don't go private though, because they are happy with the service provided by the NHS.
I actually asked my GP (doctor) to see an NHS dermatologist once, to check out a mole which had darkened. I was given an appointment for 4 days later, turned up, was seen within 5 minutes; all clear given. I fail to see how private healthcare could better that experience, it wasn't urgent enough to need to be same day. Maybe I would have been seen in 4 minutes instead of 5?
As for wait times, it pretends on the procedure. There is never a wait for treatment of a life threatening condition. I had to wait two months for an operation on my eardrum, wasn't a problem with me. The surgeon was one of the best in the country, if I had gone private I would have paid to have the surgery performed by the same man; maybe I would have had it done within 4 weeks, but it made no difference to me.
The operation would have cost $8000 privately, that is a lot of money, for precisely the same level of care with precisely the same surgeon, carrying out precisely the same procedure, using precisely the same equipment. The hospital food would have been better, whoopdy do, it cost me £3 for a sandwich from the hospital shop.
Ryan, you are wating your breath on most Americans these days. They have no interest in any truth that differs from the crap they choose to believe in the face of overwhelming evedience to the contrary. During the healthcare debate i fact checked most claims made about other countries successes and failures with their heathcare system. It took less than 15 minutes each and every time to find contraditory evedence in each of the countries they lied about. Fox news is the worst offender by far in this country. There are very few professional TV journalists left in this country today. Most have become high paid mouth pieces for sale to the highest bidder or the staions political party. Or are showing how the old timey traveling medicine show can still make wagonloads of money in the modern world. All it takes is people related to snake oil customers of old. America is bound and determined to become the smartest country ever, to be destroyed by ignorance, dontcha know. wink, wink.
Health care is a greater killer, Just take more out of the war budget in which is a great hazard to your health anyways
I believe they also get bonuses for things such as having the most people in a specific area say, quit smoking. I'm sure you feel that having a healthcare system that actually improves the health of it's customers to be a tad rediculous, dont you? Instead of rewarding a doctor for having the most paitients drop their blood pressure, you seem to be in favor of rewarding them for selling the most pills that will increase the sales of more pills to combat the side effects of the first pill when it was combined with the other 8 pills normally taken in spite of the fact that the patient can't afford to eat due to their medicine bills. Believing the lies that are spread about coutries outside of our borders is way smarter than spending 15 minutes doing a quick looksee, amen. Blind fait,h once accepted into one part of an individual's decision making process, tends to exert it's influence on every other part of the person's thinking process.
I think the emphasis there is on "once". Once, yes there were unacceptable waits, people were treated like cattle, but this was under a government that was very keen on private health insurance.
Now you would expect to be seen well within three months and within minutes of your appointed time.
John, as soon as the claim of long waits and death squads came out, I went to BBC and started a search of complaints against your healthcare system. I wasn't all that suprised that I found very little that supported the claims. As you mentioned, some of these problems were problems in the past. I suppose Americans prefer living in the past and figure that since we as a country are incapable of fixing problems, the entire world must lack the ability to do so. The people in this country accept it when their elected officials admit they are incapable of doing anything correctly. How else would you explain the acceptance of the this statement...Considering the poor job Washington does with everything they attempt, do you reallyt want them messing with your heathcare. Only an American politician could use their past failures as a reason to lessen their workload, and have it accepted and repeated. They state.. We suck at everything we do and therefore you shouldn't expect us to start doing the job we were elected to do. Americans take up the call and keep them in office. Americans are friggin idiots for the most part.
Yes, I am a little surprised at the US citizens supposed love of freedom but who happily settle for much less freedom than we do.
As has been stated several times we have private health care in this country as well and because we have a public health service, private heath care has a competitor.
And as for death squads! Snort, guffaw.
Still, it takes all sorts.
The one right more people in this country seem to be willing to die for is, their right to be iggnorant. Their iggnorance is their most valueable possesion.
It takes all kinds and when your not careful with your herd control measures, they will naturally group together and start cross breeding. See what happens when that's allowed to go unchecked?
CP said health care systems, not health care. We pay the most for mediocre care. Our life expectency is dropping and thousands of families lose everything they own. What good does it do to offer the best service if no one can afford it? Those who forgot that they were born with a brain that gives them the ability to think on their own have decided that it makes more sense to believe what an insurance company tells them about the health care system of another country than it does to listen to the people who live with it. What is this national obsession with being lied to? Fox news can state that the english are dying by the hundreds due to their healthcare systems death squads and the BBC can run a story that praises their healthcare system on the same day. With out considering even a peek at what the British are saying about the British, America protests the deathsquads that have been perfected in Britian and are on the way here.
I like the way you guys think (well, all but the single digit IQ thing). America has been exporting terror for too long. Our troops are fighting for corporate interests. Plain and simple. I saw an interview with Rumsfeld years back and they asked him why we didn't send troops in to help stop a genocide. He stated that it wouldn't have been supported by the American people. Wasn't in our interest. I was flabbergasted. The only valid reason I can think of to go to war is to protect human life. But what can you do? The corporations own America. We don't have any say any more.
Most People do not realize we are smarter than most of the very rich. Because money is only 1/5 of the equation in the balance in life and money has the least to do with happiness.
Most people do not realize they have been always the true leader throughout history and still the true leader because it takes 80% of the consciousness of the people to truely changes things, not the so called pro claimed leader or they rarely change things for the better.
There are two super powers in the world, today.
Global public option and the military complex and war solves nothing.
Are you sure? Up to a few paragraphs ago we were all idiots.
just, I agree. America has been not only exporting terror, they have been setting up the terrorist organizations we later have to fight. It's a self serving cycle of war that keeps a select group of companies churning out profits.
Do you remember the report that Cheney's think tank released that detailed the need for Iraq to happen in order to expand the war industry in America. I forget exactly how far in advance of the illegal war in Iraq, that this study was released.
Human life has no meaning to those making the decisions in this country.
They arrest and torture an american citizen who released evidence that we are killing 100,000's of innocent children and adults yearly. Most Americans dont have access to the truth about this and for the most part it hasn't made a bit of difference. Most American are more upset that the leaks, leaked, than they are about the innocent children that have been killed in their name by our government.
Them there folks is evil muslims and need to die for it, amen.
The actions of the bestest country in the world, are turning large numbers of innocent civilians into terrorists with a reason to hate America.
Air force personel are shown treating the murder of innocent civilians and people get nad that they had to sit thru another moment of truth.
How do Americans respond to this news...they get pissed when someone shows them the truth and utter not one word about the mass killings in their name.
America is doing more than any other organization in the world to create terrorists that hate America. The real problem here according to most in this country is, all muslims are born to be terrorists. They are simply waiting for orders from their false god to kill innocent Americans and christians is considered an actual fact.
I don't know who coined the term or how long it's been around, but whenever I read about "American exceptionalism" I cringe.
I love this country as much as the next person.
National pride is a great thing (for citizens of ALL countries).
But national arrogance... not so much.
It is really refreshing (but disheartening) to read how others around the world view us.
There IS no defense for invading Iraq.
There is next to no defense for the war in Afghanistan, either (if Bin Laden is even in that country -- doubtful).
Ma'm, apparently, the expression comes from an observation made by Alexis de Tocqueville that America was "exceptional", and the term itself was first used by the American Communist Party in the 1920s. Well, whadda ya know!
MM, most of those making this claim of "American Exceptionalism" have no interest in how America actually stacks up against other industrialized nations. Then again how many of them have ant real interest in, or need of, the truth? It is too easy to verify what you read or hear for so many to be led around like sheep, Of course the possibility exists that a harness with blinders or a sheperd is what these people require to get thru the day.
$700 Billion for defence/offense is a very good reason to continue invading countries. That's a lot of government contracts that aren't going to be given up without a fight.
From live in Belize a lot of the time, I think I saw Bin Laden at the post office there.
Nah !! he is on a Chinese language course here, not even the students know who they are themselves mostly
He would stand out in China, he is something like 7 feet tall
Really ! I heard he was 8 feet tall with little horns on his forehead.
Hey, Buffoon! Thanks for the research. It is very interesting to see how a term began as one thing and became another. Interesting the reasons the American Communist Party adopted the term: "in reference to their belief that "thanks to its natural resources, industrial capacity, and absence of rigid class distinctions, America might for a long while avoid the crisis that must eventually befall every capitalist society."
And its usage today seems to fall into this category: "Although the term does not imply superiority, some writers have used it in that sense. To them, the United States is a "shining city on a hill", and exempt from historical forces that have affected other countries.
And that in between there was a rejection of the premise: "In the 1960s "postnationalist" scholars rejected American exceptionalism, arguing that the United States had not broken from European history, and had retained class inequities, imperialism and war. Furthermore, they saw every nation as subscribing to some form of exceptionalism.
So basically, we are just as exceptional as everybody else, eh?
Yeah, I think that's exactly it Every nation is just as exceptional as the next for one reason or another. Which means, none is as exceptional as they may want to think, for what form of exceptionalism is "better" than the other?
In one sense Stump is right, the capitalist elitist have formed some kind of brainwashing system that makes the USA believe they are NO. 1. wail trying to dominate the world. Throughout history in every race and many large nations, have tried to own everything and failed.
India and USA are about the most extreme countries out of the 94 I've traveled. In general it balances out, they no better or no worst then any other country.
USA is the only country that ever took away my work permit because I refused to not build GW Bush a war display.
Cp, a lot of the problem resides with the news services in this country. Nothing remotely derogatory about this country is ever reported to the citizens of this country by the respected news services in this country. The people in this country have no interest in finding the truth about much of anything. I currently visit the BBC if I have any questions about whats going on in America. I like getting the news about america with out the rah rah crap we get stateside. I would appreciate a couple more respected international news services I might be able to use for accurate information about world events. I actually make myself verify most of what I hear and read before I repeat it unless I am simply trying to get a rise out of someone. Primarily I like to check the claims made about foreign countries by politicians here. The majority of the time what they claim has little to do with reality. Outright lies by the right about Britians healthcare system went unchallenged and unverified by those who don't need no stinkin' truth to make their political decisions. America is at the end of the life expectancy of democracies and some seem determined to end it as quickly as possible.
America has been at war with one country or another for, I believe, 4/5ths of it's existance. War is big money for a lot of people who control this government process. Bush senior addressed some of them as what he like to call his two favorite groups of people, the haves, and the have mores. This was a a weapons sale I believe. It was rather intersting to me that as the war in Iraq expanded, the need for military grade weapons and equipment increased for the war on drugs. The battle to spend billions on the border uses the same equipment that is currently being supplied under contract. What better way to increase profits than by adding a few hundred extra units onto another government checkbook. Do small town police forces really need military personel carriers to arrest pot smokers? Of course they do, just ask the lobbyists that push them on commission. I sold cars and I am sure the mark up on attack helicopters is pretty good. Just what your local sheriff needs to control traffic.
The military is the most Socialised and state-funded part of the US economy it seems. Centrally directed and immune to the democratic voting system. So much for capitalism :-)
Stump - you're saying the U.S. has been at war for 188 yrs out of 235 yrs? Hmmm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_h … ted_States
How many American deaths have been recorded? (note this doesn't account for deaths from the war on drugs)
http://www.historycentral.com/desert_st … lties.html
I'm asking about the wars the US has been for 4/5ths of its existence. That's 188 out of 235 years. Have not asked about deaths.
Sry for taking so long, I misplaced the link.
Timeline of United States military operations
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is a timeline of United States military operations. The list through 1975 is based on Committee on International Relations (now known as the Committee on Foreign Affairs). Dates show the years in which U.S. military units participated. The bolded items are the U.S. wars most often considered to be major conflicts by historians and the general public. Note that instances where the U.S. gave aid alone, with no military personnel involvement, are excluded, as are CIA-based operations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o … operations
As you can see it is actually over 4/5ths of our existance we have been using our military against another nation(thereby increasing profits for those companies who buy a government contract or two or twenty).
I'm sure this fact has no bearing on the hatred countries around the world harbor against us. There is positvely no way that this has anything to do with any terrorist attacks against America in the past or those that we seem detremined to cause. Thye right hand is killing people around the world and the left hand is holding a sign condemning the retalitory attacks against us. That is how America appears to the world and appearently it's the image most of this country is proudest of. The companies that our government hire to do their dirty work continue to receive new contracts regardless of how many innocent civilians they kill in my name and your name. For example, Blackwater has just been awarded another government security contract. No matter how many innocent civilians they kill. we keep right on paying them millions of dollars to keep the deaths rolling. This has nothing to do with the attitude other countries have about us does it? Believe me I understand the way a large portion of this country feels about this. They are nothing but Muslims and desreve to be treated worse than this group treats homosexuals. Since these people dont see either group as human, they have no problem treating them like the animals they see them as, I'm sure I will have no problem at all getting big ole Amen for that statement, Right?.
They don't want homosexual as troop, they are just too flowerily and gay.
The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within. It starts with barely arms for defenses rather than using your arms for hugging. Then it leads to fighting for peace, in which is like screwing for virginity. When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die. War should be made a crime, and those who instigate it should be punished as criminals
Doesn't seem like couture was interested in the history of america using it's military as much as possible either. Of course she has already decided not to talk to me anymore since I refuse to believe the crap Jim and she spout as if they actually get a referal fee for converts, lol.
I don't understand how guns became big business. I didn’t know of any kids with a gun in their locker when I was kid. Some would have just punched it out, thinking that was the way to manhood
I don't understand how guns became big business. I didn’t know of any kids with a gun in their locker when I was kid
Reminds me of the definition of patriotism. The belief that your country is superior to all others based on the fact you were born there. Most people don't realize that they would feel the same way regardless of which country they were born in. That tends to discount the personal opinion from serious consideration as it is based on delusions and the randomness of human reproduction. That leaves you with two options, stick your fingers in your ears and run around hollering nanananananana. or checking some facts. Facts, Americans don't need no stinking facts, we got fingers.
Castle - I'd like to hear more details about you losing your work permit, if you'd care to share. Thanks.
An American friend and sculptor ask me to do a World War 2 theme in Normandy France and I would represent Canada, I'm thinking well maybe, I can sculpture doctors and nurses.
After I found out they want a whole killing theme and I never sculpture weapon or killing anyone, expert animal hunters kills. They told I may be shaking hands with GW Bush; I don’t want to be haunted by Bush for ever, so I refused, and so they refuse my work permits into the USA from that point on.
I think their point is at the end of a gun barrel
I see. It sounds like they saw you as a potential threat of some kind because you refused to do what they wanted. Thanks for sharing.
I see you have an artist background too; the whole artist field can be a potential threat.
They have not put duck tape on my mouth and hands yet.
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