Can you admit any mistakes your party has made in the past or present?

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   Stump Parrishposted 12 years ago

   Those on the right and the left are quite good at showing the faults of the other side. How many are able to point out mistakes made by their chosen party?
   
   I hope all have the ability to realize I am not asking for this, The left was wrong to allow the right to pass ____ legislation.
   
   I am refering to things like...I feel that the left has given too much power to unions. I feel this way because of the harm the teacher's union has caused this countries educational system. They have placed more importance on providing jobs than on teaching children.
   
   Anyone else got one?

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      lady_love158posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Sure there were plenty! The most recent was the tax cut compromise, and the start treaty!

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         Stump Parrishposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         how can you possibly see what's really going on in this country from this position?
         
         
         
         

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            Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I know who that's a picture of...
            but I better not say it.....

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               Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Is it you?
               
               You kept saying something about "[your] head being that far up [your]a@@"...

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                  Stump Parrishposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  That is a portrait of me I admit it. See, all you people who believe I am inflexible are proven wrong.

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            lady_love158posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Nice! I see you subscribe to the liberal calls for civility! LOL

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               Jim Hunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Thats usually where they find their Ideas.

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                  lady_love158posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL Ain't that the truth!!!

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      uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Belonging to a political party that consists solely of my self I can say quite honestly, no.

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   Ralph Deedsposted 12 years ago

   Progressives are quite critical of several of Obama's moves--pursuing an interminable, losing war in Afghanistan causing futile NATO and civilian Afghan casualties; hinting that he's willing to throw Social Security into the discussions on balancing the budget; continuing several of Bush's wrongful policies such as renditions and spying on American citizens, showering too much of the public's money on Wall Street Banksters, come immediately to mind.

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   Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

   Yes, UCV, but if you were to make a mistake ... what would it be ???
   
   I agree with you, Stump. Unions have gotten entirely too powerful. Out here in California the teachers' union, the prison guards' union, even the nurses' union wield too much power (IMO).
   
   I would also add that whichever party is responsible for creating multi-generation welfare families has done our country and our citizens a disservice (to put it mildly).
   What a shock, eh? A liberal who doesn't defend entitlement programs categorically!

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      uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Spending too much time reading and writing forum posts.

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      Stump Parrishposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Remember the quote from the old teachers union president that went something like...when all the little kiddies start paying union dues, I will start working on their behalf. I watched the unions shut down the steel industry in Pa with no qualms or regrets.
      
      Tenure in teaching simply guarantees hundreds of kids a crappy education if the teachers suck. Their job is more important than the job they were hired to do.

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         lady_love158posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Unions the liberal mainstay the group that kees your ilk in power and that's how you treat them?

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            Stump Parrishposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I suppose I should swallow everything they feed me in much the same fashion you do with those who know they are right simply because they call themselves the right. Why do you support blind obedience to your masters? Are you so incapable of rational thought that you need the Faux News network to do your thinking for you?

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            DTR0005posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Reality check here: union numbers and power have been steadily decreasing since the 1950's. During the Eisenhower years, 1954 specifically, 28% of American workers belonged to a labor union.  In 2003, the number was down to 11.5%. So you can bit*h about the power of unions all you want, but the facts are both their numbers and power have drastically decreased and continue to do so. Any ideas why???? lolll

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               lady_love158posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Yeah that's why andy stein visited the wh 42 times! That's why the auto unions got bailed out and bond holders got screwed... unions are mostly government workers and the beneficiaries of liberal policies and contribute heavily to democrats yet even though their numbers are in decline their influence is not!

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                  DTR0005posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Interesting theory Lady_love.. guess there must be a boat-load of union members on Wallstreet as well... I mean based on your theory. But bankers aren't exactly laborers so it's all good - my bad. And while I didn't initially agree with the Detroit Bailout, I do see that the lion's share of the money has been paid back with interest and more importantly the automakers are coming back into profitability. And I don't think anyone on the Left is ashamed that unions support their agenda or vice versa. I certainly am not and have never belonged to a labor union in my life.  It seems to be those on the Right, however, that  prefer to deny American Industry is dumping cash into conservative laps to keep things "business friendly," block any reform, etc. etc. I mean that truly is the worst kept secret of the war.  And that is really the difference between the Left and Right. They both have their own agendas, but the Right has a hard time admitting the obvious. That's one of the many things I admired about your ideaological idol, Ronald Reagan - he never made any bones about whose interest he really had in mind. In other words, he was no hypocrite. I can't say that, comfortably, about any big player on the Right at the moment.

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                     lady_love158posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh yes the evil right is FOR business and prosperity! God they are EVIL! The right would like it if every single American was rich... and for some reason the left views that as a bad thing... go figure!

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               uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm
               
               The percentage of public sector employees belonging to unions is substantially higher year upon year, as well as substantially higher than the peek of private sector union strength.
               
               http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
               
               Labor unions contribute huge dollars exclusively to Democrats.
               
               http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/11 … uence.html
               
               Though trailing business political contributions, unions spent amounts disproportional to the percentage of the population they represent.  In addition, businesses do not donate exclusively to Republicans or Democrats.  The best example of which is Time-Warner which contributes 72% of its $20 million contribution to Democrats.  Where as several unions contribute over 90% of their $478 million to Democrats.
               
               Perhaps that is the clue to the disproportionate influence of labor unions.  Money, organization, commitment to ever growing government and workers who vote according to union edict.

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         uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         There was a difference after the collapse of steel in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana.  The great steel making cities and the communities that produced ore and coal, shipped raw and finished products, slept the hard working men, educated their children and fed their families continue to struggle. No Congress and President were so committed to a centrally directed economy and unions to transfer billions to United Steel Workers Union. We are seeing the same things emerge around UAW cities.  The violation of existing bankruptcy law was a reward for the unions support of Obama and the Democrats not their dedication to progress and productivity in the auto industry. 
         
         If Democrats get back in charge of Congress expect even more as the secret union ballot will disappear and the established precedent of transferring funds from equity holders, like police and fire pension funds, to union bosses will expand.  Next time it will be giant transfers to every union and the conscription of uncooperative workers into unions by the old fashioned practices of jaw boning, threat, intimidation and violence.  Gotta love those unions.

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            Stump Parrishposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            UV, alot of what I saw was people who were used to making $25 an hour stating that they couldn't live on $19 dollars an hour. Seems that they survived on the $8 an hour job at McDonalds they were forced to take as nothing else was available. I know there was more to this than what I remember but the main points I do remember was the industry stating that they needed to upgrade their equipment to remain competative. Union said no way Josie, keep paying rediculous wages and go belly up if it comes to it. When the unions were created they were needed to protect the workers in this country from thye companies that abused them. No one bothered to worry about safeguards against the unions who were actually working for themselves.

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               Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               There was a fair amount of myopia on both sides of the bargaining table.

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               uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Upgraded technology has always been opposed by unions that is why the most advanced General Motors plant is in Brazil - the country - you know where the nuts come from.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  "Upgraded technology has always been opposed by unions that is why the most advanced General Motors plant is in Brazil - the country - you know where the nuts come from."
                  
                  Not true. Some unions have opposed new technology and some were far-sighted and cooperative. Walter Reuther and subsequent UAW presidents all supported the cooperation in the introduction of technological change.
                  
                  Every agreement between GM and UAW since 1948 has included a clause specifically recognizing the importance of cooperation in the implementation of technology. Here is the clause from the 1987 GM-UAW National Agreement--
                  
                  "(101)(b) Performance Bonus Payments. The Performance Bonus provided herein recognizes that a continuing improvement in the standard of living of employes depends upon technological progress, better tools, methods, processes and equi9pment, and a cooperative attitude on the part of all parties in such progress. It further recognizes the principle that to produce more with the same amount of human effort is a sound economic and social objective. Accordingly, a Performance Bonus payment will be made to each eligible employe in accordance with the following table:"  [Provides for 3% increases in the second and third years of the contract.]
                  
                  If GM's plant in Brazil is the most advanced it's because it's the newest plant, not because of any lack of cooperation on the part of the UAW. It's true that some local agreement provisions in U.S. plants impeded efficiency. However, historically the UAW believed in technological change and did not support featherbedding as did some other unions, e.g. the printing trades.

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4. 61

   ediggityposted 12 years ago

   Would this be considered a party foul?

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   SpanStarposted 12 years ago

   Personally I believe the issue is greater than just declaring what went wrong in the ones party. I believe this dogged nepotism (one-sided) support of specific candidates of individuals parties resultint in a number of people taking office that need not been there. Rather than allowing the other party to elect their candidate, people voluntarily support a candidate they know full well a better candidate is needed to be elected however we use elections like sports, team winners and losers.

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      Stump Parrishposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Span, you may be right but I was simply wondering if this entire country is blindly obedient to the party that has them enslaved. It appears that very few are capable of admitting when those they worship screw them for profits and positions.

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   DTR0005posted 12 years ago

   The pursuit of the Afghanistan debacle and caving recently on tax cuts for the wealthy come to mind. And perhaps the unwillingness, at least in the last week, to come out in full support of the Egyptian people. Then again, this is POLITICS!

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      Stump Parrishposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you on the first two and undestand what you mean by politics. It is the process that encourages people to stand united against their own best interests.

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   habeeposted 12 years ago

   I wish the Rs weren't wasting so much time repealing the HC law in the House. Work on jobs! The Rs should have asked the Ds to sit down with them to improve and simplify the HC law instead of trying to repeal the whole thing.

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      lady_love158posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Repeal of HC is working on jobs! Over 700 waivers have been granted to companies bc they claim they can't afford to implement the law. In addition many small businesses are hoarding cash and delaying hiring bc they still don't know what all the costs of this bill is! Repeal NOW!!!

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      uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Jobs are not created by the Federal government.  They are transferred from the private to the public sector.  The best thing government at all levels can do is produce a stable business environment.  It is the unpredictability of Democrat policies that has retarded economic activity.  Obamacare has added burdens, present and future, to employers for which they are still making adjustments in their short and long term plans.  The Federal Reserve has added to that instability by keeping some key interest rates at 0% and pursuing policies that hobbled the Japanese economy for a decade.
      
      The best thing the Republicans in Congress can do is FIGHT for rolling back spending, borrowing, taxing, Obamacare, the national debt and the weak dollar.  By fighting for these things they demonstrate a commitment to a growth economy and that will reassure those businesses sitting on cash that it is time to grow.

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         Jim Hunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         "It is the unpredictability of Democrat policies that has retarded economic activity."
         
         You could say that or you could say the predictability of democrat policies.
         
         Business and democrat doesn't mix well.

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      Jim Hunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      "The Rs should have asked the Ds to sit down with them to improve and simplify the HC law instead of trying to repeal the whole thing."
      
      They weren't elected to sit down with the dems, they were elected to defeat the liberal agenda.

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         Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Is that why Obama's approval rating is the highest it's been in a year - and going up?

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      Stump Parrishposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      habee, what have these people attempted to accomplish since arriving in office? Nothing, they waste time and the money we pay them for that time drafting legislation that they admit has no chance of passing. This accomplishes 1 thing, It keeps the right happy that they are wasting money and time.

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   Will Apseposted 12 years ago

   Its bc the D's r disapearing into the fh that all the st r so hum. Or its bc the words keep juing down in t garb.
   
   Then again it mite be bc I am dum.

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9. 69

   Charles Jamesposted 12 years ago

   I am a Labour Party member.
   
   The Labour Party in Britain took up and ran with an idea that had been started by the Conservatives, which was the Public Finance Initiative (PFI). Instead of the state funding the building of schools and hospitals the capital came from financiers. Now of course the nation will pay rent and maintenance costs on these buildings for 80 years or so and we will still not own them.
   
   Councils and health authorities used to borrow from the national government at rock bottom interest rates. The PFI rates are based on commercial lending rates which are much much higher.
   
   This mistake will have to be paid for over a long long time.

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      DTR0005posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You'll be tarred and feathered on these forums! Labor is a curse word with most of these ultra-right wing libertarian types. Good luck brother.

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         Charles Jamesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         DTR005 - Thank you for your kind thoughts. I am crossing swords with a number of the tea party conservative republican supporters. So far they have been astounded by my good manners and the fact that I say openly that I am a socialist. "Socialist" is their all purpose insult, so when I say it first they are flummoxed.
         
         I enjoy analysing their political positions and exposing the contradictions in their thinking.
         
         They are not bad people. They are patriotic Americans who care deeply about America. They have swallowed the propaganda of Readers Digest Fox News etc. in part because they have seen nothing else. Faced with a calm polite opponent who reasons with them they respond.
         
         I doubt any of them will ever sing The Internationale, but that is not my aim. I hope they will recognise that capitalism has flaws and that socialism as I put it forward has some positive aspects.

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    Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years ago

    
    
    Nope, pretty much right on schedule.

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    manlypoetrymanposted 12 years ago

    Yep...Biggest mistake: Losing "the election"...for starters!

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    Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

    It's all part of their master plan, Doug. Lull us into a state of false security. Make us believe Obama's actually doing a good job and can win a second term.
    Then, just when his numbers really go up, and the stock market stays up, and unemployment goes down and people feel optimistic and happy again --- Whap! Right to the solar plexis. We won't know what hit us! (Actually, we will know. It's those left agenda defeaters in action.) Ha ha ha ha ha.

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    Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

    What kind of anti-Brazilian comment is that, UCV?
    The nuts come from Brazil?
    I thought they came from California!??

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       uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charley%27s_Aunt

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    Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

    Rather esoteric reference, UCV. Thanks for the link.
    Fascinating. Kind of a cross between a Shakespearean comedy of errors and La Cage Aux Folles .

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       uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Funny thing is, it is not an esoteric reference for me.  I write everything in these forums for my pleasure. I do not believe, in any way, that I am doing any more than flushing the precious moments down the toilet.  I do not believe anyone will ever come to believe in anything that they do not already suspect is true.  That is why I do not believe, at all, that anything I say will ever convince any liberal of anything at all, ever.
       
       Flush twice, it is a long way to the cafeteria.

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    Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

    I disagree with that, UCV. Not that you write here for your own pleasure, or that the time devoted to forum posting would be more productively spent on the throne...
    Just that I do feel that some of us hubbers are willing to learn from others who do not share our views.
    One thing I personally have learned to do is fact check what is being said. In the process, there is always learning to be had.
    
    If someone's point has merit -- and it is not presented in a condescening or hysterical, nonsensical manner -- others will consider it (not all, some). At least I will. Sometimes

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       uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       and the beat goes on....

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    Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

    Now THAT's a reference I don't have to Google!
    Gotta love Sonny & Cher

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