Did Obama Fake His Birth Certificate

Jump to Last Post 1-46 of 46 discussions (62 posts)
  1. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    An alarming and nagging question has been dogging the Obama campaign for months. That is whether or not he was actually born a "natural born " American citizen as the Constitution requires.

    Section 1 of Article II of the Constitution contains the clause:

    “ No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. ”

    The problem is that Obama's mother had not been in the United States the required length of time, in order to be a citizen. Consequently, Obama would not have been born a natural citizen. As a result of this, many investigators early in Obama's campaign raised the issue of where is his birth certificate. They asked if the certificate could be produce in order to end the doubts and kill the story.

    Obama in turn, simply said he was a citizen. In any event, after several months, the calls became louder and louder until finally, Obama produced a birth certificate.

    End of story.

    Everythng quieted down.

    Except that several die hard investigators weren't satisfied. The certificate had been posted online and was a digital representation of the supposed original. As it turns out, there are now new claims that the supposed real certificate is not real in the first place. Or let me clarify - it is real - but it's his sister's certificate - with his name put over hers - so the investigators claim.

    One would never know this controversy is brewing. It is not mentioned in main stream media news. (But neither was John Edwards affair at the Hilton)

    But the evidence is overwhelming that the certificate has been doctored, and since it is actually his sister's certificate - there is ONLY ONE WAY this could have happened. Fraud.

    Hmmmm, did Hillary Clinton know something, when she refused to quit campaigning, and is this why she is not attempting to stop her followers from bringing her name up at the convention 3 weeks from now????

    The Olympic fireworks have nothing on the fireworks which will be displayed among the Democrats - if this turns out to be true.

    Read the evidence for yourself at the links below and you decide! Let's discuss it.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php? … geId=71763

    http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/P … /12956.htm

    1. Rochelle Frank profile image90
      Rochelle Frankposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      His mother doesn't have to be a citizen or even a legal resident.  If he was born here, he is a citizen under current law.

    2. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Israeli Insider

      Ha Ha Ha :-)

      I figured this crap came from them.

      Maybe the false intelligence about weapons of mass destruction did too?

      What's wrong, does Mr. Obama not support the billions given to the welfare state or all the false flag operations?

  2. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    By the way what a fantastic Olympics opening ceremony. WorldNetDaily and IsraelInsider are right wing, meaning you can just view the issues they support and their contributors, and
    can figure ahead of time their exact viewpoint on every issue. Takes about 2 minutes. Anyway - so what. McCain was born in Panama. And since Obama is a Muslim - so disqualifiy him for that. Suppose I should put a qualifier in here. (That was a joke)

  3. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    Yeah. But what about the fake???

  4. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    The fake may be a fake. People will manufacture things, like the latest example the Suskind expose, of the fake letter connecting
    Saddam Hussein to 9/11 Mohamed Atta, and they knew there
    were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It's called the 'end justifys the means', or slime crime. Also there is tons of info on the Bushes, to have disqualified them from ever serving as dog catchers, let alone presidents, but for some strange reason it is never released to the public by the media. People so convinced they are the end-all, be-all, many time feel they must resort to any means to save the day.

  5. Uninvited Writer profile image77
    Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago

    So, US officials are so stupid that they don't notice a faked birth certificate? That does not bode well for fighting "real" terrorism.

    Better get your tin hat on...

    Taking bets on how long it takes this to show up on Snopes smile

  6. profile image0
    daflaposted 15 years ago

    Obama's mother was born in the United States.  It was his father who was an African citizen.

    If he was not born in Hawaii, he would not be a natural born citizen, no matter who his parents were.

  7. Rochelle Frank profile image90
    Rochelle Frankposted 15 years ago

    So where was he born?-- that's the only thing that matters for this  point. I am not an Obama fan, but this seems wierd.

  8. funnebone profile image63
    funneboneposted 15 years ago

    Have you noticed that you never see Obama and Bill Clinton in the same photo? They have a similar build....maybe Obama and clinton are the same person...I wouldn't put it past the clintons to sure up their odds by creating a mythical candidate for bill to play.....I must check the tapes...

    1. Rochelle Frank profile image90
      Rochelle Frankposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      So now the question is "Was Obama born, or created?"   If he was created, wouldn't he have a fansified creation certificate instead of a birth certificate? . . .and, for that matter, where was Bill born? Have we seen his birth certificate?

      1. profile image0
        daflaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
        1. Rochelle Frank profile image90
          Rochelle Frankposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          No, there are a few  real snakes that are born live, and I'm afraid a few of them have gotten into the gene pool of politicians. Wasn't it a snake, after all. that was the first liar and tempter?

  9. Jewels profile image82
    Jewelsposted 15 years ago

    The certificate in question, that being the certificate shown on the internet appears doctored because the Registration number has been blanked out.  Now I'm not Einstein but there is no way that I would make my Birth Certificate fully available for the world to copy and instigate forgeries of anything they so choose.

    There is no way, absolutely no way any candidate running for office would not be able to validate their US citizenship.  Unless of course you have absolutely no faith in the administration of the United States of America.  Now that is a hub in itself.  But for the appeasement of those who are still arguing this subject, you'd do better directing your energy toward a better health system, this topic's done to death. 

    And your resource - world net daily is so republican biased I must ask what it is you are wanting to achieve here?

  10. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    All publications are biased. Forget the bias and look at the allegation - is that real or is it no. And if you read the links - there's more to it than what you have said. Quite a bit more.

    The underlying name on the certificate is Obama's sister. The allegation is - it's his sister's certificate - which is legitimate - that has been doctored over with his name.

    And they just made this up out of thin air of course.

    """"""""""""The Israel Insider report said the two analysts it interviewed both have been "able to independently discern the name 'Maya Kassandra Soetoro' from artifacts left behind in the process of forging a new fake document for Barack from an image of Maya's original document." Maya is Obama's younger half-sister.""""""""""""""

    two analysts it interviewed both have been able to "independently" discern....

    that word """independently""" I would think is significant.

    Former electronic documents specialist for the Homeland Security. Yeah those kind of guys are hangin at the local five and dime everywhere, right. smile

    Personally, I don't care whether Obama is or isn't. What WOULD concern me though is that he allowed this certificate to answer the questions about his birth. It is Obama approved. That is the heart of what is going on here. If it's true, he lied.

    It's kind of like Edwards saying infidelity would disqualify a person from being an honorable candidate for presidency - and then lie when they asked in the same interview if he had ever done it. He lied to us when he did that. That is the issue.

    And Mark - no main stream unbiased liberal newspaper broke that story - even after it was proved correct. Bias???

    It took the Enquirer of all things. That must be the standard we're using now huh?


  11. Mark Knowles profile image59
    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago


    Well, if you know me at all, you will know that I think ALL politicians are scum-sucking parasites that should be taken outside and slowly strangled to death with a wet tea towel.

    Frankly, it would surprise me if he had NOT lied about something. I could care less where he was born. If you can allow the brother of the candidate to be in charge of counting the votes, surely using your sisters birth certificate is OK?

    Although, the really scary thing is how stupid this is. If it is true, I would think he could have come up with something better than this and if he really is this stupid, that should disqualify him. I am pretty sure that with a few thousand dollars, I could have done a better job than this.

  12. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    On that we can agree. Shake.


  13. Uninvited Writer profile image77
    Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago

    Maybe the real news media have more important things to worry about than whether or not a politician had an affair. If they reported every affair they wouldn't have time for anything else like oh, I don't now, reporting on a war in Iraq or a crisis in Georgia...

  14. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    True true. But this affair would have involved the former Vice presidential Candidate under Mr Kerry, and this one was also running for President when they asked him the question. Not your typical, Illinois first term senator like Obama.

  15. profile image0
    daflaposted 15 years ago

    I've discovered that you have to produce a stamped, certified copy of our birth certificate to even register as a Presidential candidate with the major parties, so I'm sure the DNC has it somewhere, but they aren't about to let us see it.

    Any publiciity is good publicity to them, I guess, although to me, I'd want it settled once and for all, because there are people who won't vote for him simply based on this.

  16. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago
  17. William F. Torpey profile image72
    William F. Torpeyposted 15 years ago

    This is all right wing garbage. All you have to do is look at this link from Wikipedia:


  18. Patty Inglish, MS profile image88
    Patty Inglish, MSposted 15 years ago

    I believe you William, but the photo of the cert. is so small and the print so tiny I can't read it no matter what I do to my screen resolution, etc..

  19. William F. Torpey profile image72
    William F. Torpeyposted 15 years ago

    When I moved to New York from Connecticut three years ago, Patty, I had to produce for the Motor Vehicle Department my original birth certificate (they would not take a duplicate.) My mother told me when I was a boy that my middle name was Francis, and that was the reason my RC confirmation name was Francis -- because mom didn't want to change it because I was named after William Francis Hogan, my uncle who was killed in World War II. I was astonished to learn that my birth certificate listed no middle name. I suppose if I ran for office I'd be exposed as a fraud because I've always used my middle initial (and still do today.)

    These are details that will never be proven on HubPages, or on the Internet. If people want to defame somebody because they are political rivals they will do so. This issue is all about knocking down Obama in any way possible, not about a piece of paper. A similar issue has come up about McCain, and that should be similarly discarded. It's dirty politics, not a genuine effort to do what is right..

  20. Patty Inglish, MS profile image88
    Patty Inglish, MSposted 15 years ago

    I get it. smile

  21. Sprinkler Man profile image58
    Sprinkler Manposted 15 years ago

    I have a hub about this. That is not a legit BC - Where are the signatures? Seal?

    Its a FAKE and printed with computer type fonts - back then they would have all been hand printed and signed......

    right wing my a** - everyone should know this is a fake.

  22. Uninvited Writer profile image77
    Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago

    So, the entire bureacracy of the United States was fooled by a bad fake birth certificate?

    They had these things called typewriters in the 1960s...

    Anyway, I'm not replying to this thread anymore. We should let it sink again like it did last week until PT brought it up again...

  23. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    Several things to consider. The birth certificate posted on Obama's site (and the Fight the Smears Site) ""is"" the Birth Certificate in question. It is the very one being analyzed. Not a different one.

    Jerome Corsi's book mentioned the Certificate and the Fight the Smears issued a 43 point rebuttal to the book - but did not say anything about the Birth Certificate.

    Here are a couple of links detailing what the issues are:


    http://sunlituplands.blogspot.com/2008/ … icate.html

  24. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    Once questions began to arise about Obama's citizenship - it was stated that:

       """"the Barack Obama campaign could easily help dispel those rumors by producing his birth certificate since Hawaii does not make such records public. Without explanation on how it was obtained, the liberal website, DailyKos, produces the certification of birth for Barack Obama."""

    Here is the link to DailyKos the day it was made public.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/ … 320/534616

    Notice above - it is impossible to get. But this guy just posts it with no explanation - and Obama has made no explanation about it - since.

    It seems - that would leave him plausible denial if the allegations turn out to be true. It all just seems odd. Right Wing? McCain has same problem?

    No he doesn't. The Senate has VOTED on McCain's ability to be President. Obama, has this miraculous and mysterious internet post as his proof.

    May 2, 2008 (Washington Post)

    """The Senate has unanimously declared John McCain a natural-born citizen, eligible to be president of the United States.

    That is the good news for the presumptive Republican nominee, who was born nearly 72 years ago in a military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone, then under U.S. jurisdiction. The bad news is that the nonbinding Senate resolution passed Wednesday night is simply an opinion that has little bearing on an arcane constitutional debate that has preoccupied legal scholars for many weeks."""

  25. Sprinkler Man profile image58
    Sprinkler Manposted 15 years ago

    Fact remains the same - Barack Hussein Obama is not a legitimate US Citizen..... and he cannot provide proof otherwise.....

    People are ignorant to think he is US citizen and should vote Republican on this fact alone.

    Not even the thousand of other reasons why.

    How about the fact he wants to abolish the 2nd amendment:

    What an idiot

    If you do not know what I am talking about - do a search.....


    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Are these the same "facts" that you were using to prove evolution is a lie and the world was created 6,000 years ago? lol

      You right-wing, anti-evolution, anti-democracy, anti-abortion, pro-planet destruction christians make me laugh.

      About your constitution:

      1. Patriot act
      2. Guantanamo bay

      Christian democracy in action........

      You really think he is that stupid and your government's vetting process is sooooo bad this was not spotted before he was allowed to run?

      Not only that, but he has held office before and no one noticed. lol

      1. Sprinkler Man profile image58
        Sprinkler Manposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        <snipped personal attack>

        1. Misha profile image63
          Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Looks like he really thinks so yikes

          1. Mark Knowles profile image59
            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this


            Looks like it. Anti-Creation=Idiotic. smile

  26. profile image0
    RFoxposted 15 years ago

    Well I must say that if the only mudslinging going on in this presidential race has to do with who was born where then maybe the U.S. actually has a chance at electing a half decent president.

    Seriously, it's kind of ridiculous isn't it?

    They're both citizens, so vote for who you want and forget the bulls**t.

    That's my two cents. smile

  27. allshookup profile image60
    allshookupposted 15 years ago

    I feel that it is important to know the truth about his birth certificate. Why? Well, haven't we had enough liars in the White House? And if he will blantly lie about this then he'll lie to us about something else. If he is not a citizen and did forge the certificate, that not only means he lied, but that he forged a legal document. We do not need a President in the White House that forges legal documents and thinks that its good to do so! Again, do we want more liars up there? If he will lie to us about one thing, he'll lie about many. Why are people so blind about this person? It is baffling to me

    1. Mark Knowles profile image59
      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      What is baffling me is your immediate assumption that he is a liar based on a random accusation from a right-wing Jewish website and the fact that you also believe that your Secret Service is incapable of properly ascertaining that he is or is not qualified to run for the Presidency.

      Although, as I mentioned before, if it is OK for the brother of a candidate to be in charge of counting the votes, surely this is a minor infraction?

  28. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    It is rather astounding.
    Obama born to an American mother, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas
    no less. Doesn't need a birth certificate.

  29. William F. Torpey profile image72
    William F. Torpeyposted 15 years ago

    I learned a long time ago not to waste my breath on this kind of argument.

    The trouble is that when you see a brilliant person arguing with an idiot from a distance, you can't always tell which one is the idiot.

  30. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    Former Democrat Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania - files lawsuit against Obama concerning citizenship issue. Requests restraining order.

    http://www.obamacrimes.com/index.php/co … -president

    1. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The only way to ensure a positive outcome in any situation is to have your people embedded on both sides of the issue.

      Do you get it?

      Here's some more on our dear friend Philip J. Berg, Esquire, public-action.com/911/suit.html

  31. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    Berg is a Hillary supporter

    For Immediate Release: - 08/21/08
    Suit filed 08/21/08, No. 08-cv-4083

    Contact information at the end of this press release. Documents filed with the court and a copy of this press release can be downloaded at the end of this press release.
    (Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 08/21/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, [Berg is a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania; former candidate for Governor and U.S. Senate in Democratic Primaries; former Chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery County; former member of Democratic State Committee; an attorney with offices in Montgomery County, PA and an active practice in Philadelphia, PA, filed a lawsuit in Federal Court today, Berg vs. Obama, Civil Action No. 08-cv-4083, seeking a Declaratory Judgment and an Injunction that Obama does not meet the qualifications to be President of the United States. Berg filed this suit for the best interests of the Democratic Party and the citizens of the United States.“Eighteen million Democratic Primary voters donated money, volunteered their time and energy, worked very hard and then not only supported Senator Clinton, but voted for her and often recruited other supporters as well. All the efforts of supporters of legitimate citizens were for nothing because this man lied and cheated his way into a

    Philip J. Berg, Esquire stated in his lawsuit that Senator Obama:

        1. Is not a natural-born citizen; and/or

        2. Lost his citizenship when he was adopted in Indonesia; and/or

        3. Has dual loyalties because of his citizenship with Kenya and Indonesia.

    Berg stated: “I filed this action at this time to avoid the obvious problems that will occur when the Republican Party raises these issues after Obama is nominated.

    There have been numerous questions raised about Obama’s background with no satisfactory answers. The questions that I have addressed include, but are not limited to:

        1. Where was Obama born? Hawaii; an island off of Hawaii; Kenya; Canada; or ?

        2. Was he a citizen of Kenya, Indonesia and/or Canada?

        3. What was the early childhood of Obama in Hawaii; in Kenya; in Indonesia when he was adopted; and later, back to Hawaii?

        4. An explanation as to the various names utilized by Obama that include: Barack Hussein Obama; Barry Soetoro; Barry Obama; Barack Dunham; and Barry Dunham.

        5. Illinois Bar Application – Obama fails to acknowledge use of names other than Barack Hussein Obama, a blatant lie.

    If Obama can prove U.S. citizenship, we still have the issue of muti-citizenship with responsibilities owed to and allegance to other countries.

    Berg continued:

    fraudulent candidacy and cheated legitimately eligible natural born citizens from competing in a fair process and the supporters of their citizen choice for the nomination.

    Voters donated money, goods and services to elect a nominee and were defrauded by Senator Obama's lies and obfuscations. He clearly shows a conscience of guilt by his actions in using the forged birth certificate and the lies he's told to cover his loss of citizenship. We believe he does know, supported this belief by his actions in hiding his

    secret, in that he failed to regain his citizenship and used documents to further his position as a natural born citizen. We would also show he proclaims himself a Constitutional scholar and lecturer, but did not learn he had no eligibility to become President except by means of lying, obfuscations and deceptions. His very acts proves he knew he was no longer a natural born citizen. We believe he knew he was defrauding the country or else why use the forged birth certificate of his half sister?

    Americans lost money, goods and services donated in their support of a candidate who supposedly was a natural born citizen simply because the DNC officers and party leaders looked the other way and did not demand credentials to answer the questions and prove whether or not Senator Obama was a legitimately natural born citizen, even in light of recent information that has surfaced on websites on the Internet suggesting Senator Obama may not be eligible to become President and questioning his status of multiple citizenships and questionable loyalties! If the DNC officers and.or leaders had performed one ounce of due diligence we would not find ourselves in this emergency predicament, one week away from making a person the nominee who has lost their citizenship as a child and failed to even perform the basic steps of regaining citizenship through an oath of allegiance at age eighteen [18] as prescribed by Constitutional laws!

    The injunctrive relief must be granted because failing to do so, this inaction defrauds everyone who voted in the Democratic Primary for a nominee that is a fair representation of the voters. Failure to grant injunctive relief would allow a corrupted, fraudulent nomination process to continue. It not only allows, but promotes an overwhelming degree of disrespect and creates such a lack of confidence in voters of the primary process itself, so that it would cement a prevailing belief that no potential candidate has to obey the laws of this country, respect our election process, follow the Constitution, or even suffer any consequence for lying and defrauding voters to get onto the ballot when they have no chance of serving if they fraudulently manage to get elected! It is unfair to the country for candidates of either party to become the nominee when there is any question of their ability to serve if elected.

    All judges are lawyers and held to a higher standard of practice than a regular lawyer. It is this Judicial standard that demands injunctive relief prayed for here. This relief is predicated upon one of the most basic premises of practicing law which states no lawyer can allow themselves to be used in furthering a criminal enterprise. And by that gauge alone, failing to give injunctive relief to the 18 million supporters of the other candidate, a true natural born citizen eligible to serve if elected, this court must not allow itself to be used to further the criminal and fraudulent acts to continue and be rewarded by becoming the Democratic Nominee. Failure to give the injunctive relief prayed for will insure that a corrupted Presidential election process will only guarantee a show of unfair preference of one group of people over another group by not demanding the same rules be applied to all groups equally and fairly, especially in light of the fact that both candidates are each considered a minority.

    Philip J. Berg, Esquire
    555 Andorra Glen Court, Suite 12
    Lafayette Hill, PA 19444-2531
    Cell (610) 662-3005
    (610) 825-3134
    (800) 993-PHIL [7445]
    Fax (610) 834-7659

  32. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    Well, Makemoney - I guess I missed it. But I did get the vast anti-semitic nature of the link you posted. By posting it - you are saying to us - that Berg is a plant of the Israeli-Bush conspiracy nut view - and by inference - you believe Bush and the Israelis are in on it. You agree with the idea that Israel and the US "performed" 9/11 on us - in order to combat Israel's enemies - etc. etc.

    There are no REAL enemies - Mr Make Money - are there? Only Israel and the Republicans are the real enemies; those Neo Nazi Neocons and those Judaizers and their cohorts, those vast right wing Fundamentalist Christians.

    Are you trying to show a greater conspiracy?

    Ok, ok, - I'll play along. I'll take another look at the evidence on the site you posted. I read it all - but now I'll look at all the links - but in exchange, take a look at these - and let me know where you think they fit into this theory of yours.

    http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/multimedian … urces.html

    http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/multimedian … unity.html

    http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/l … aflet.html

    Their intention is to enforce the Koranic demands that the Islamic Body not be divided. Their goal is to make one nation out of all Muslims. That this is coming is a true fact.

    What, I ask you, will be able to stand against it?

    Turkey has turned Islamist. Syria signed major agreements with Russia just a few days ago. Pakistan's President just resigned, clearing the way for an Islamist takeover. Iran has already influenced all it's neighbors and Libya has backed away from their earlier concessions to us. Let me ask you sir, is this an imaginary confluence of events also?

    When this unity comes - where will you stand?

    In the videos - notice the black flags - those are the flags the leader of this future Caliphate will be carrying when he comes to take over this body of believers. In the videos - they are showing their unity and belief in the Koran's prophecies and Hadith - that a Saviour will come from the East carrying black flags. And when he comes - all Muslims are to join him in his war to make Islam the universal religion of the world.

    They are showing that not only do they believe the prophecy - but they intend to make it come to pass.

  33. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    As usual PT you lack context. Are the soldiers of Islam, the universal religion in america, or are american soldiers in Ismaic countries. Like your prophecy reasoning, anything can be anything if you leave out all
    relevant reality.

  34. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    The context you fail to mention is the 1400 year war between Islamic and Christian countries. That is the over arching, all encompassing context. It sits on the highest mountain and is the definitive view.

    And while yourself and Mr $Maker contemplate nuances of contemporary American politics - the true endgame is upon us.

    Rose colored glasses will not stop the events taking place - from taking place. The evidence you offer as the Cause of the events - is in actuality the Cure for the events which caused our invasion. We are reacting - not acting.

    Unless of course, you wish to frame the discussion in the paradigm that we created 9/11 in order to side with Israel in a wider world conspiracy theory - like $Maker above. But I think you're smarter than that.

    So, help us out. Can you give us a "context" here that's a little more than 12 years old?

    I tell you the context I like, I like the one the Islamists SAY is their context - and not one made up from political illusions.

    The Islamists say it is their Islamic Duty from the foundation of Mohammed's Religion in 623ad. It would seem to me that predates your view by a few months.

    Did you look at the videos? Did you notice the website is from the headquarters of the group in  England - operating under English law - and call themselves the "Liberation Party" and operate freely under our laws - with the ultimate purpose of replacing our laws with Sharia?

    Do you believe we need to be liberated?

    This isn't a small outfit and they are by no means the only one.

    But what the heck, I guess it's a lot easier to talk about Obama's Birth Certificate and Berg's membership in the Conspiracy. At least, we can keep that in context.

  35. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    'But what the heck, I guess it's a lot easier to talk about Obama's Birth Certificate and Berg's membership in the Conspiracy.'. Believe that is your obsession my friend. Hello! '1400 year war between Islamic and Christian countries'. I've heard of the 100 year war, but somehow I missed that one. The crusades perhaps, but then again that was Christians in Islam countries, excepting the Mopes, (Seinfeld) Moors.

  36. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    Others, with less modern political bias, would disagree:

    "In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar (Mohammed), the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent god; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE...Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant...While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon the earth, and good will towards men"

    John Quincy Adams
    Sixth President of The United States of America


    Notice how long he said the WAR had already lasted 200 years ago???

    I guess that context works.

    I found another obsessed fool.

  37. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    So Adams said it was the dogmas of Islam that furnished the motives - not Crusades, or Bushes, or Bergs.

    """"""""""While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action""""""""""""

  38. profile image0
    Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years ago


    I lol'ed pretty hard.

    That is the same website that had a heading which read "Bigfoot's DNA found, yada yada yada".


    1. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
      Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      That is one of about 1000 websites reporting the claim by the 2 guys that faked it. So did CNN, FOX, NBC etc.

  39. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Yeah Zarm did you notice the Oil for Israel banner on the right side of the worldnetdaily site.  lol

    PT I watched the 2 videos and quickly scanned the last page about Hadith and also the wikipedia page about Hadith.  Kind of scary eh.  But I didn't see where you said "Muslims are to join him in his war to make Islam the universal religion of the world."  PT maybe you could point that out?

    Coincidentally tonight I just watched a prerecorded interview of Bill Clinton that was aired on Sept. 11, 2004.  He mentioned that at that time the US had, what was it, either 120,000 or 150,000 troops in Iraq but only 15,000 troops in Afghanistan.  No weapons of mass destruction and bin Laden still has not be found.  PT you are not one of those Christian Zionist coolaid drinking cooks that think NATO and the US troops are in the middle east as Christian soldiers, are you?  Cause they are not.       

    PT you asked me where will I stand?  I'll stand exactly where I am.

    Now PT let me ask you a question.  Under the circumstances do you believe that the US, NATO or even Israel for that matter should stay the course in the middle east?

  40. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    $Maker - here's the prediction. You must keep in mind that all Fundamentalist Muslims - Islamists - Terrorists - Radicals (whatever you want to call them) believe in this teaching. It is on all of their websites and in their literature. It is mentioned in their preaching and it is their fervent belief. (This leaves out the so-called peaceful Muslims - but they are not the ones blowing up buildings, beheading people and demanding a universal Caliphate to rule the Muslim lands - in order to rule the world)

    All of these sayings are circa 650ad

        """"Even if the entire duration of the world's existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left before the Day of Judgment, God will expand that day to such a length of time, as to accommodate the kingdom of a person out of Ahl al-Bayt who will be called by my name and my father's name. He will then fill the Earth with peace and justice as it will have been filled with injustice and tyranny before then.[8]""""

       This Hadith - or saying of Muhammed - describes the near universal takeover of the world by anti-Mohammedan forces (The West). But then, a leader - a Saviour will come who will fight them after the Muslim world is unified into one body. He comes in a very specific way.

       Here is the Shiite view:

        """""Shi'as believe that al-Mahdi will reappear when the world has fallen into chaos and civil war emerges between the human race for no reason. At this time, it is believed, half of the true believers will ride from Yemen carrying white flags to Mecca, while the other half will ride from Karbala, in Iraq, carrying black flags to Mecca. At this time, al-Mahdi will come wielding God's Sword, the Blade of Evil's Bane, Zulfiqar (Arabic: ذو الفقار, ðū l-fiqār), the Double-Bladed Sword.

    Shi'as believe that Jesus and a Jewish Prophet will also come with the Mahdi to preform miracles to show the truth of their mission to bring justice and peace to the world.""""

       THUS you see the white and black flags in the video - and in rallies around the world, and in marches by more radicalized Islamic elements. They are demonstrating their awareness of "THE TIMES" - they believe the days are here. That's why they are preparing the unified body politic - to re establish the Caliph - gone since 1923 - and prepare for the Saviour.

       On the website I posted, take a look at the headlines and you will see every world event and Islamic event is perceived in this paradigm. The leaders of all the Muslim lands are evil. All of them. In their eyes - all the leaders must fall and the individual nations must give themselves over to the unified Caliphate.

       So you see, the West is only part of the problem - we are merely one of the catalysts - not the catalyst. It is their own dogmas that demand these things. They are not reacting to us solely from our actions - they are acting in accordance with their beliefs - which do not parallel our own.

       Here is the Sunni view:

        """""It is said "predictions and lore conscerning the Mahdi abound"[9] Among them are that the promised Mahdi would be a Caliph of God and that to make a covenant with him is obligatory. He would belong to the House of Muhammad and would be in the line of Imam Hussein. His name would be Muhammad and his family name would be Abul Qasim, his father's name would be ‘Abdu’llah, and he would appear in Mecca. He would protect the Muslims from destruction and would restore the religion to its original position.""""

       The original view is the view Islamic Extremists propound. According to their words - they want to RESTORE Islam to it's roots

  41. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    The oil for Israel banner you pointed out - is concerning an oil drilling venture near the Dead Sea. You can invest in the company if you like. That is what they are saying.

  42. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    Concerning the political questions you asked; let me ask you. Do you believe we should withdraw all our military from the entire Middle East, stop selling weapons to Israel, stop funding her and to quit supporting all our Arab and Islamic allies - Monarchs, Dictators and Presidents?





  43. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
    Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years ago

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ … _mahdi.htm

    Here is a complete point by point on the coming Islamic Saviour according to the Koran and Hadith. This answers your question more fully and specifically.

  44. SparklingJewel profile image65
    SparklingJewelposted 15 years ago

    Hey guys...I guess you didn't notice you all were off topic...this needs to be moved to another thread...right? smile

    1. Uninvited Writer profile image77
      Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, we need a topic for crackpot conspiracy theories...

      1. SparklingJewel profile image65
        SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        On the contrary UW, the Islamic fanatics do have such an agenda...we just need to pray for the majority of Muslims in the world  to be peaceful and loving and not get sucked in. They are one of the largest  religious populations in the world.

  45. profile image0
    Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years ago

    Obama did not fake anything:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 … e_usa.html

    Lying and misleading as usual ProphecyTeacher, tsk tsk.

    1. Prophecy Teacher profile image60
      Prophecy Teacherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hey - Zarm - I think you have something there. But I didn't lie and I didn't mislead. It was always stated as a question (go back and reread all the posts)

      And early on - it has always been said (By those claiming fake) all Obama had to do was release the official BC to all concerned. It took him over a year from the time people began asking. So we here on this forum didn't smear him - he smeared himself. This posted BC on the Obama site has been around for 3 or more months.

      You must also remember - that the original allegations concerned having contacted the Hawaii offices of the BC - and the woman saying they never issue BC's like that. She worked there!

      All Obama had to do was say - oh yes they do.

      But you'll catch me soon Zarm - we'll call this one a draw.

      1. profile image0
        Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Your not lying intentionally dude, it's not like you sit down and say "Geeze I KNOW Obama's birth certificate is valid but I am going to run and tell everyone on hubpages it isn't".

        You lied through negligence, misleading statements, and omission.  This was supported by an underlying desire to see things the way you wanted to see them, rather than suspending judgment and waiting for evidence to present itself either way.

        Your not really all that interested in evidence, your interested in faith, and it is becoming more apparent to me every post that you make.

        You want to have faith that these kinds of accusations are true against Obama and you wind up jumping the gun and posting all sorts of unsubstantiated nonsense (albeit with the best intentions).

        This in my opinion is a form of lying, through negligence, propaganda, and omission of facts.

        Feel free to disagree.

        "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

        Your paving yourself a nice yellow brick road.

  46. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    Zarm your description here is also completely descriptive of the US media, which may be why this form communication is so prevalent amongst the masses.


This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy

Show Details
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)