War Vet Hurt in Occupy Wall Street (Oakland) How Do You Feel About It?

1. 73

   AEvansposted 13 years ago

   Millions of Americans are mad over bailouts, unemployment, corporate greed and the list goes on. A Iraq veteran is hurt and he defended our Country. How do you feel about the direction the States are taking? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45054697/ns … qj_6Zv7is8

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      Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      All the things listed in your post - bailouts, unemployment, corporate greed - are the main focus of Ron Paul's presidential campaign.
      
      OWS has a LOT in common with Ron Paul.

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         AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I would not vote for Ron Paul so that is out. I believe that all Americans are tired of what is going on with our Country. I don't believe that what they are doing has anything to do with Ron Paul. There are many out there who are Democrat and Republican.

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            Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            There's only one presidential candidate who openly protested the Bailouts.
            
            It was Ron Paul.

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               Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yeah.  The Libertarian who would destroy America by reverting it to 1850.
               
               Ron Paul, who doesn't care about women's right to choose.
               
               Ron Paul, who wants to destroy public schools.
               
               Ron Paul, who wants regressive taxes on the poor and more money for the rich.
               
               Ron Paul, who would let oil companies destroy anything they needed to to get more precious oil.
               
               Oh, yeah - he'd be a GREAT President!

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                  Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Your post shows a great deal of a lack of understanding of history and Paul's positions.
                  
                  Oh, and economics.
                  
                  Good day.

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                     Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Really?  I got those positions RIGHT OFF HIS WEBSITE.

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                        Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        "Destroy public schools" is not off his website.
                        
                        You're implying that "returning education to the state level like it had been until about 2 decades or so ago" would "destroy public schools"
                        
                        When was the last time you went to a public school?
                        
                        The number of federally mandated tests -- and those tests that were developed by states to hopefully bypass federal testing (didn't work) - that our kids have to take anymore, and the way our teachers test SPECIFICALLY to the tests...
                        
                        Wake up - the BoE destroyed education already.
                        
                        Ask children today to describe what electricity is and the difference between AC and DC, they won't be able to tell you. But they might know how to calculate the OHMs!... (but they've never touched a real circuit or Ohm-reader).
                        
                        AP courses are the norm, now (no - they aren't really AP, they're just normal classes with the word AP in front of them) because College is so expensive (federal loans to students who are now $150k in debt to the government with no jobs) that kids NEED to take AP courses to AFFORD college.
                        
                        Look at the facts: the BoE has destroyed education.

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                           Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           You might get me to agree that certain aspects are not working, but I'll never agree to leave it to local desires.  That's an automatic recipe for ignorance - as we see in so many backwater places that want to teach Creationism, for example.

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                              Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Good GOD!! Not "Creationism"!! That means that those individuals might not become Biologists!!!
                              
                              NO!!!!

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                                 Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yeah, Libertarians are all in favor of ignorance.. 
                                 
                                 We have too much of that already,  Paul's idiotic ideas would only make it worse.

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         Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         No Evan, they don't.  Ron Paul would like Wall Street crooks to police themselves.  OWS wants them policed by our elected representatives.  Ron Paul supporters are a desperate, hypocritical bunch which is why he is running as a Republican.

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            Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Wow, you ACTUALLY believe that our elected representatives are angels?
            
            I'm going to post, here, all the elected representatives who are corrupt that I can find!
            
            I hope that ONE of these THOUSANDS of stories will lead you to the conclusion that government is in bed with business, and that you're the submissive one in the relationship.
            
            John Edwards:
            http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_pol … o_forward/
            
            Richard Nixon:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal
            
            Rick Perry:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbhkiL_-NBk
            
            Obama:
            http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ … nley-kurtz
            
            Clinton:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Lewinsky
            
            FDR:
            http://www.flyingeaglegold.com/fdr.php
            http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard98.html
            
            Alexander Hamilton:
            http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/leef11.1.html
            
            Lincoln:
            http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo53.html
            
            19 more!
            http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/mostcorrupt
            
            William J Jefferson:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Jefferson
            
            Dick Cheney, George W Bush, and Rumsfeld:
            http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1117-22.htm
            
            Here's an article discussing a few:
            http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … Id=5036329
            
            21 more!:
            http://www.propublica.org/article/pol-i … on-wrap-up
            
            The Kennedys
            http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea … lys-wealth
            
            ... I can't think of any more right now, but I'm sure I will in the future.
            
            I'm going to keep posting corrupt names here until you finally admit that "elected officials" are corrupted through to the core.
            
            (However, there's only ONE elected official today that I can think of who has volunteered to not participate in the Lucrative pension, gives up a portion of his salary ever year back to the people, and has refused to take part in the Congressional Health plan. - Ron Paul)
            
            Until then, I hope you understand why I will NEVER accept that "my elected officials" have MY interests in mind when they vote.

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         Repairguy47posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yep, they sure do. Both are going nowhere.

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      livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Many people are pretty outraged about it here. The Oakland PD was not supposed to use rubber bullets; they claim they have no idea how it was used. There are other videos of police officers lobbing tear gas canisters directly at protesters.
      
      The right to civil protest is something everyone should be behind, and it's sad to see it being circumvented by force in Oakland.

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      1. 73

         AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Of course the Oakland PD would claim they did not have any idea how the rubber bullets were used. They would end up with a lawsuit for harming those who were protesting peacefully.
         
         Those police officers who were lobbing tear gas canisters should be removed from the police force and investigated. Anyone like that, should not hold a badge.
         
         I am behind the "Occupy Wallstreet" protesters, I believe they are speaking for all of us and what our Country stands for.

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      Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I Honestly believe a revolution is coming unless someone(several someones) in the Government steps up and makes some extreme changes.
      
      Sadly, business as usual isn't going to cut it for much longer.

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         Wilfionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         We are used to the ideas that the West is democratic, whilst the Middle East is made up of dictatorships.  Yet it has been shown over the past year that people-power can work in the Middle East, yet it seems to be producing very little result in the West.

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         AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You definitely are on target, it is coming and Americans are getting mad.

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            logic,commonsenseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            They may be getting mad, but they still keep electing the same morons time after time.  It's always some other legislator that's bad,never their own.  Term limits would be a huge step in the right direction.  Never had understood why it is 'good' that the President has term limits but not Congress.

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               AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               That is a good question.

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                  logic,commonsenseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks!
                  No one has ever come up with a good answer though!
                  How goes things?

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               recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               When you have ONLY two parties both full of morons working for the same masters what so you expect ??   the answer is to elect local people with no affiliations and get the two party monopoly out of power.

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                  Petra Vlahposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  There is NO hope that "new blood" will make much of a difference; Washington is an infested city and everyone gets contaminated rather sooner than later.

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                     Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     True.
                     
                     The only hope (and it is slim) is to get the influence of money out of politics.
                     
                     That won't be easy.  It may not even be possibly with legislation - the only thing that might do it is to create a culture of shame around it - make mixing money and politics so reprehensible that it truly becomes only something real criminals will stoop to.
                     
                     Getting the general populace to feel that way would be very hard, but it might be easier than legislation (which I don't think can work at all).

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                     recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     There is nothing new in all this except the scale. 
                     
                     The 1% with everything, inability to control the mass of people, continuous trade 'wars', state violence - they are typical of the ending of all the major and not so major Empires.  That they all seem to have suffered total collapse is not a comforting thought. This applies as far back as there were city states, through Troy, Persia, Greece, Rome, Germany, France and of course the UK and even tiny little Belgium had a little empire.
                     
                     When the end comes it seems that nobody is ready for it and the 'empire' keeps shambling on right up to its usually sudden oblivion.

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                        Petra Vlahposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes! All Empires had in common the same extreme greed and corruption that will make this one fall as well. As I said many times before, it is not a question of IF, it is a question of WHEN

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                        Reality Bytesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Many ancient empires fell simply by being hit with plagues and influenza.

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                           recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I do not think this is quite accurate - the plagues and flu would be the straw that breaks the camel's back.  Strong civilizations weather these setbacks.   This is probably the basis for the end days predictions, the end of all civilizations (or dominant cultures) would exhibit the same symptoms.

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                              AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Could be.

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               Mikel G Robertsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               That's because the 1%'ers get first pick, and only after they have decided which of thier puppets they will allow to run, do we get to place our secondary votes.

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2. 61

   recommend1posted 13 years ago

   And still no freedom of speech drum bangers or human rights whingers standing up to denounce what is happening in their own back yard - too easy to fire tripe at other countries yet be a coward at home huh ？？？？？
   
   The only way that the authorities get away with such blatant thuggery as this is because you are all silent.  Pathetic !

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3. 93

   habeeposted 13 years ago

   As long as the protesters aren't violent, they should be left alone. They should have the right to peacefully protest without having to worry about being assailed by law enforcement.

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      PrettyPantherposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you, habee.
      
      Marine Vet Scolds NYPD:  http://youtu.be/WmEHcOc0Sys

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4. 0

   Wilfionposted 13 years ago

   The police in every country in the world are there to protect the status quo, which usually means the rich.  Whilst the police do a necessary job, it would be nice sometimes to see them supporting the ordinary members of the public for a change, rather than the rich bankers who caused the problems in the first place.  It should also be remembered by the police, that it is tax payers who pay their salaries, and it is tax payers and ordinary working people who are paying the price for the greed of the bankers.  Yet, it seems the police are always fighting the corner of the rich against the average citizen.

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      kerrygposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Matt Tabibi had a really excellent piece on OWS the other day that mentioned that police departments get a cut for most foreclosures, credit card judgments, and other bank settlements. Can't say I'd been aware of that, though I can't say I'm surprised either. What it probably boils down to, though, is that the police are going to be on the side of the banks and we can only expect more violence and brutality from them as the occupations continue.
      
      It's up to the rest of us to keep spreading the word about their unconstitutional behavior, and the Tea Party damn well better stand with OWS on this issue. Even if you don't agree with OWS, it's your constitutional rights to free speech and free assembly that is being threatened by these police actions.

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      psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think that is entirely fair. Police have helped me through a burglary, stalker/flasher and other things that happen when you lived in a less-than-lovely area. Cops help ordinary people all the time and in fact most of the time just by enforcing the law.  They don't get to chose which laws to enforce and against whom. I would not ask a cop to ignore instructions and getted fire just to make a point.

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         recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You are half and half correct I would say.  The police do all this stuff - they also enforce what their superiors tell them are the law.  You surely would not support them if they take batons to beat peaceful protesters, deliberately throw missiles at protesters and fire rubber bullets into peaceful protesters ?

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5. 72

   Reality Bytesposted 13 years ago

   I am confused.  The police are following orders.  Where I am the parks close at 9 pm.  If you are in the park later then that time you are subject to arrest.
   
   I support the protesters but the place they were "occupying" looked like a third world mess.
   
   Why do the protesters not perhaps be more sanitary?  Why do they just not occupy another spot?  Like maybe the Capital building Wisconsin style?  Or is it just Unions that have the privilege of "occupying" a building for weeks illegally?
   
   My experience at an "occupy" movement was a lot of confused people.  They are mad but the anger is misdirected. Not all of them but the majority are not sure who to be mad at?
   
   I should have brought a mirror to show them the perpetrators,  They lie complacent for decades, wake up and are angry at the world?  Or they are spoiled kids looking for their participation trophy?  Either way this movement needs education to realize the circumstances they are protesting.  Right now this is just a noisy crowd that will eventually fade away accomplishing nothing because they never took the time to realize why they are where they are.
   
   Government=Corporation=International Banks=Government=Corporations====== Tyranny and Oppression

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      Petra Vlahposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Noisy crowd that will eventually fade?
      I don't think so; OWS is not noisy enough and they will not fade. Police brutality will only add more fuel to their cause and will show the world that the American "freedom of speech and freedom of assambly" is a a bad joke.
      Police are only following orders? WHO is giving the orders? Would it be the same ones who did nothing to prevent the public outrage?

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         recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It is nice to see you and the few others here pointing out the abuses of human rights and the direct oppression of freedoms.   BUT where on earth are all those loudmouthed squealers about these issues in any other country.  Where are the cowards hiding with their mouths and eyes closed ?  Maybe afraid the Homeland Security SS will visit them or their families ?

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         Reality Bytesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         We will see what they are occupying when the snow hits? 
         
         I hope they hang in there but,  I doubt it.
         
         Did you know that homeless people are stealing their tents and food?  the atrocities committed against them is deplorable.  there are people out their with less then them and they have to share.  Oh, the horror.....

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            wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I would suspect that the poor that are stealing their tents and food are actually protesting that the protesters have more than they do and they want some of it.  Plus, of course, they are cold and hungry - stuck there when the protesters return to their warm homes and cupboards full of food.
            
            I'm not sure what they will do with tents - I doubt there is anywhere nearby where tents can legally be pitched and used.  Still, if that doesn't bother the protesters, why should it bother the homeless?  They certainly have a bigger gripe than the protesters do - we'd better simply turn over all the parks and such to any squatters that come along and want them.
            
            I see pictures of India with homeless sleeping all over the streets and sidewalks - if a group of (relatively) rich protesters can occupy our streets and parks indefinitely why not the homeless that truly need them?  Surely a few hundred gallons of human waste flowing down the streets or collecting in parks won't hurt anything and a few thousand empty McD packages will be good for the wildlife.

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               Petra Vlahposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               The fact itself that there are so many homeless people in the "richest country in the world" is additional proof that something is terribly wrong with the system; they have been ignored for too long and it is time to face the sad reality that they will not go away just because we choose to turn a blind eye on thier suffering.
               And please don't tell me they are all bums and drug addicts; many of them lost their jobs and homes due to the financial crises caused by the greed of corporations

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               Reality Bytesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               If you Google homeless tent cities you will see it is rampant nationwide with hundreds of cities.  Some with 5,000 residents.  That is part of American life today.
               
               Where I am they live beside the Railroad tracks.  Fifty - sixty tents scattered mainly under bridges.
               
               I know this world.  I talk to these people.
               
               This is the real atrocities which happen under everyone's noses but are simply ignored.  Empty freakin homes and people living under bridges.  The irony is sickening.
               
               BTW: Many tent dwellers do work.  These are not just your local bums, these are human beings that want a chance to pursue happiness.  They have it, they just need to utilize it more.

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                  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Apparently my sarcasm didn't come through very well.
                  
                  My concern and sympathies would be with the homeless, not the yahoos that have decided they can occupy and trash any area they want to.
                  
                  While it seems true that some homeless are there by choice, the vast majority are not.  Temporarily down on their luck, lost a job, health costs too high, whatever - they are still people and willing to contribute to society rather than sponge of it.
                  
                  This is where our attention and help needs to go - not with a bunch of idiots that declare they can do what they want where they want and are spoiling for a fight with police.  Rather than looking for those wanting media coverage, lets look for those in hiding, away from public view, that truly need our help.

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            kerrygposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            "stealing?"
            
            From what I've heard, the protesters are sharing their food and shelters voluntarily... and providing free medical care, public lending libraries, childcare, and other amenities to boot.
            
            http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/occu … s-14792519

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            1. 72

               Reality Bytesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Every group is different.  I am only going by what the media reports.
               
               
               'Occupy Wall Street' Discourages Homeless From Dining, Other Cities Make Room At The Table
               
               
               http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/2 … ml?ir=Food
               
               I support these protests so please do not take my posts as criticism of the movement.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with this.

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6. 60

   lostdogrwdposted 13 years ago

   hate it. police use to silent the people. next our own government will us the military or as the did with the UNPATRIOTIC ACT. decided war on the people. this is not good and WE THE PEOPLE HAVE TO CHANGE THIS MADNESS THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HAS PUT US IN  out government sold put the people to banks, oil , insurance. and they draining the people dry. it time to put these business in the hand of the people though the state for state own bank, oil refinery, and state insurance that is control direct by the people. if not the corporation will turn the United State to a 4th world country

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7. 82

   kerrygposted 13 years ago

   I am tearing up a bit: http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstree … bout_what/
   
   The video footage of the aftermath of his injury is outrageous. Throwing a flash grenade into a group of people obviously trying to help an injured person... Disgusting.
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ
   
   It's good to hear he's been upgraded to fair condition at least.

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      AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That is a relief. It upset me too!

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      LuisEGonzalezposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's outrageous how some police departments are "protecting" the public. I have tweeted it and hope that others see what is going on.

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8. 72

   Reality Bytesposted 13 years ago

   The protesters were throwing debris at the Police.  Hitting them with their 3/4 inch dowel signs and running.
   
   What do you think the Police reaction will be.  I am the first to condemn the Police when they are wrong.   You do not confront Police with violence they are trained, prepared and willing to go violent in response.
   
   Laughter, that they cannot handle.  Humor, that they do not train against.  Thinking that you are going to assault Police and then just chant merrily on your way is NEVER going to happen.
   
   Open anti violent rebellion is the answer.  Flood the courts,  flood the Bureaucricies.  Do sit ins etc...   But do not commit violence against the Police.
   
   They will win every time.  *experience*

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      Petra Vlahposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree; passive resistence is the only way and Ghandi proved it

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         Reality Bytesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I learned it from John Lennon first then Gandhi, and MLK as i got older.

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         kerrygposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I agree, too, but I really have to question the reports of "protesters" acting violently toward the police.
         
         Like Olsen, my grandfather is a member of Veterans for Peace and was involved in many marches and demonstrations against the war in Iraq. They had perpetual problems with plants - from both the police and pro-war groups - trying to incite violence during their demonstrations to discredit the movement. Though it's safe to assume there are some protesters dumb enough to follow suit - there are idiots of every ideology - I suspect the same thing is probably happening here.

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   MelissaBarrettposted 13 years ago

   I am all for the OWS movement.  However, if you break the law then you have consequences.  Period.
   
   If a park is closed, it's closed.  The police have the responsibility to make you leave.  If you do not leave, then it is on YOU what happens to you. 
   
   I probably would have stayed too, but I wouldn't be bitching if I got a billy club upside my head.  You make the decision, you pay the price.  That's what personal responsibility is all about.  And the next person that brings up Gahdi gets it with both barrels.  HE was prepared to get arrested and didn't complain when it happened.

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      Reality Bytesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am going to mention Ghandi, whenever I commit a supposed "crime" I am able and ready to do the time.
      
      I am just a tad more violent then Ghandi though  I could not achieve what he did.

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10. 68

    QualityContentposted 13 years ago

    Well protesters may be breaking a law by staying in a park (such a major crime)the banks, corporations and governments are breaking even larger laws.
    Perhaps we should jail all these people the same time we arrest others.
    ------------------------------
    
    As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
    
    As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power.
    
    We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments.
    
    We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
    
    They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
    
    They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
    
    They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
    
    They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
    They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
    
    They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
    
    They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
    
    They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
    
    They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
    
    They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
    
    They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
    
    They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
    
    They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
    
    They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
    
    They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
    
    They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
    
    They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
    
    They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
    
    They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
    
    They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
    
    They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
    
    They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
    
    They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
    
    To the people of the world,
    
    We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
    
    Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
    
    To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
    
    Join us and make your voices heard!
    
    Now who exactly are the criminals here?????
    Some guy with a sign?

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       MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       ::rolls eyes::
       
       Oh...Drama...
       
       Yes, people are mad so they get to break the laws without anything happening to them.  That's reasonable. Good to know. 
       
       I already said I support OWS, so you can stop spouting rhetoric at me... especially an entire screen worth of it. (Which I didn't read more than a paragraph of because soap-box speeches make me mildly gassy)
       
       What I am saying is if you think the cause is important enough to break the law, then by all means break the law.  Just don't expect to do it without consequences.  If it's only important enough to complain about, then don't expect anything to get done.
       
       It's called personal responsibility, and the lack of it is why things are so bad in the first place.  If you truly believe in your cause enough to break the law for, then taking a tear gas container to the head is a badge of honor...  you get the stitches and then go right back to it.  Sitting and whining about bad things happening to you does nothing but undermine the appearance of your determination. 
       
       Furthermore, it always amazes me when people purposely set out to piss authority off then stand around looking confused when authority gets pissed off.  Wouldn't it be nice if you could piss EVERYONE off without anyone ever responding?  What a warrior for your cause you could be then.

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          Petra Vlahposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          When you talk about personal responsability, it seems that5 you are refering ONLY to the ones that are protesting the LACK of responsability of the ones that created the problem in the first place.
          Are you telling us that those criminals can go on their way and steal some more WITHOUT faceing consequences?
          Does "law and order" applys ONLY for the ones who don't have the means to buy their way into "respectability"? You are for the movement, but you want protesters to move slow and quiet while police are provoking them? You can't have it both ways, so make up your mind!

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             MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Actually, I wasn't talking about the other side at all, as they aren't the ones getting hit in the head with tear gas containers.
             
             I don't let my kids get away with the "I hit him because he hit me first" crap either. 
             
             Someone else's lack of personal responsibility doesn't lessen anyone else's obligations. 
             
             And if you seriously think that it was the police that were provoking a group of people who were all breaking the law knowingly, then you have some serious entitlement issues.
             
             Protest all you want, it is legal if you do it the right way.  The police will be there to protect you then. If you are trespassing then it is YOU breaking the law and the police are doing their job by removing you.

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                MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                And I am for the movement, but I am for doing it the right way.  I don't like people to be hurt.  I don't think that property should be destroyed to prove a point.  I don't think that there is any reason to do illegally what can be done legally with less effort.
                
                And if you do choose to break the law, then so be it.  Do it in a pacifistic way.  If you don't want to go then simply sit down.  Don't curse the police, don't hurl objects, don't throw punches. That's how MLK did it, that's how Gandhi did it. 
                
                If they fire rubber bullets at a crowd of people sitting still, instead of picking them up and arresting them, then they ARE guilty of brutality.  As it is now, the police were guilty of doing what it took to clear the area.

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                Wilfionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                I think people can confuse justice with the Law.  I believe the Occupy movement which has now spread throughout the world is fully justified in its demands and even morally justified to trespass.  The corruption of the bankers, who caused the economic situation, yet are themselves even richer than before it began, is a moral issue, and if there is such a thing as right and wrong, then the bankers and the governments who have supported them are, I believe morally wrong and unjustified.  Justice, is on the side of the oppressed huddled masses, not on the side of the rich bankers, who have used people to make their money, and do not give a damn about what they have done.
                
                However, the Law and justice are two different things.  Whilst justice may be on the side of the protesters, legally, they are in the wrong.  It is therefore a choice for society, to consider which is more important.

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                   MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   I agree with you until your last point, but I don't think it's for society to decide I think it is for the individual to decide.  It all comes down to "is it worth it?"  If it's worth it to enter conflicts with the police over your beliefs then so be it.  If it is worth it to break the law for your beliefs, then so be it.  (I can easily think of several examples where it would be worth it for me)  However, it is a choice.  You know what the laws are, you know what the possible outcomes are, if you choose to go ahead with your actions then it is you and you alone that is responsible for what happens to you.  No one is being oppressed by the police here, protesters are choosing to do things to which the police have no choice but to respond.  As they could easily have had a legal protest and have been protected by those same police, I must assume that it is conflict that they purposely sought out (which is also fine, publicity raises awareness) but when you instigate conflict, you really can't be surprised the result of that conflict is... well... conflict.

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    Wilfionposted 13 years ago

    I do think that we take the rights we have for granted, as though we have always had them, whilst not wanting to rock the boat by demanding new rights or changes to society.  Women, who take their right to vote for granted, rarely think of the sacrifices made by the suffragettes, who took civil action, including smashing windows, chaining themselves to railings, going on hunger strike, or throwing themselves in front of the king's horse.  All of these actions were drastic, but had they not been so, women may not have the right to vote even today.  Politicians do not give rights away willingly.  They need to be persuaded, and polite debate or petitions, rarely work.
    
    And whether black people would have equality, if the Civil Rights Movement hadn't happened, is not a certainty.  So, whilst it is unpleasant to protest, sometimes, it is the only language those in positions of power understand.  Not that I believe the Occupy movement will work, because money and power are so wrapped up, that the little people don't stand much of a chance.

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       Petra Vlahposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with all the points you made, however I do believe that the movement will have a great impact on changing the lives of the oppresed; the power is in the numbers and millions of people can't be stopped. It is true that money can go far - and we saw how far for that matter - but it comes a time when the Roza Park of the world will refuse to obay and will say (in a united voice, I hope) enough is enough.

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    Moderndayslaveposted 13 years ago

    The video in this article may not clearly show the actual shot that hit Scott Olsen but it does show that Scott was  approx 25feet away from the police barricade. Just for good measure these douchebag cops threw a tear gas or smoke grenade into the area where people were trying to help Mr.Olsen.At 25 feet this shot was most likely shot by a wanna be warrior that doesn't have the stones to enlist and go to war .This cop needs to be brought up on attempted murder charges immediately, period. This is disgusting. This movement will surely grow. http://dailybail.com/home/occupy-oaklan … onall.html

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       Petra Vlahposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       We know from past experience how police handles evidence and - if necessary - plant evidence. They would have loved for Olsen to be a bum or a convicted felon whom they could have accused of violence.
       As it turns out, Scott was a veteran; the police will still try to cover up their brutal actions and hide behind "the law"

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    Captain Redbeardposted 13 years ago

    There is definatly a strong civil unrest in America. With the Occupy protests happening I can only assume that it will get worse. I quote, "This occupy movement has not even really begun. When 10s of thousands of Vets come home at the end of the year and can't find jobs, start losing their homes, can't feed their children properly, see their brothers and sisters not eating properly, then the real occupation will begin. That would scare the sh!t out of the 1%. 50,000 unemployed combat vets."
    -Sal Elacqua and Jeremy Reynolds
    
    This coupled with Marines like Sergeant. Shamar Thomas, who served with the 3rd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion USMC in Iraq that are adamantly fighting with the people and for the people shows that the government has to change their policies and start holding the bankers accountable for their actions even if it means the financial support for their parties suffers. It's odd to me too tho that we as Americans are taught that Capitalism is best form of economic policy but we have to borrow money from the communists.   I know nothing though. Don't take too much of what I say to heart.

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    yellowstone8750posted 13 years ago

    Civil War?

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       Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I hope NOT.
       
       If it does come, the result will be a hard swing right or a hard swing left, neither of which is good.  Not to mention the horrors of war itself.
       
       We desperately need to move back from the dangerous place we are right now.  Equality and fairness are needed and they are needed NOW.

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          yellowstone8750posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Dr. Ken Hammond at NMSU is predicting  "facist takeover." This is the Hammond of US vs Hammond at Kent State--he was the leader and SDS member. Read my Hub on 'A New Denotation of Marx'.

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    rlaframboiseposted 13 years ago

    I think that the majority of the protestors are inherently ignorant and do not understand the problems they are protesting, I am glad they are voicing their opinions, I am saddened that the veteran was hurt and I am shocked at the level of incivility that large numbers of the protestors are demonstrating. Numerous rapes, assaults, thefts, public defication and urination? No permits?

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       Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Another person who believes lying Right wing media..

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          yellowstone8750posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          This is what I'm saying about a reference to civil war.

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       wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It looks more to me like the majority of the protestors are there to party and loot.  If they are good little boys and girs, following the law and hurting no one it isn't any fun.  If they can't destroy things and foul everything they touch it isn't worth being there.

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       Captain Redbeardposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Forgive me for sounding ignorant rlaframboise but what articles have your read that support these actions? I have been reading up on this and following it since the start and haven’t heard of any arrests for rape or theft or acts like these. Could you provide a link to these articles? I would very much like to read them.
       
       I would also like to point out that the protesters are not under a unified front. They are protesting numerous things and have yet to really even voice any demands yet I think that this video of a ranting man sums up the feeling of the movement.
       
       
       <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OlSd9OURbCE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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          Captain Redbeardposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I'm sorry appearently I don't know how to post a link on the forums

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             Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Just paste it in- no brackets, no href, no html markup at all - just as you see it here:
             
             http://www.youtube.com/embed/OlSd9OURbCE

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                Captain Redbeardposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Thank you

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    LuisEGonzalezposted 13 years ago

    People are fed up with the way banks, corporations and other intuitions seem to do whatever they want. Out of frustration OWS was born and has spread around the globe. Even some of the 1%  are in favor. There are many with good paying jobs like myself who also support the movement.
    
    Criticism of it only plays into the hands of the banks,corporations and so on. Constructive criticism and suggestions are great but insulting the character and motives of the OWS  is wrong.
    
    If the people do nothing, then we have no right to complain as "evil triumphs when good men do nothing"
    
     

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