Is America's democracy simply an illusion?

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   maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

   
   Like most of the people, the more I live Democracy, the less I feel it!

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      Home Girlposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutissimo, in non-democratic country this question is enough to put you on a train to Siberia

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         maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         And that's the reason why journalists were/are eavesdropped or may I say black-listed like under MacCarthy. It is a more discreet train.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I sure hope it isn't a democracy.
      Should be a Republic, with basic rules upon which the responsible and patriotic people build.

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      paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      My comment deleted due to no 2-year-old avatar by op.

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         paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         And that 2-year-old thing is darned odd...

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   prettydarkhorseposted 11 years ago

   the term democracy is just an "ideal" word.

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   Moderndayslaveposted 11 years ago

   Kleptocracy is more like it.
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy

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   maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

   I guess people are not as blind as I thought! I'm wondering if it is a rising conscience or if this awareness never really was expressed.

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      maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      America the epitome of Kleptocracy. It sings better in my ears. Corporations, lobbies, politicians united like the musketeers against the people!

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         maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         With the motto, one for all and all for US!

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            Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Hi there, Max!
            I hear your message, friend, but I fail to see your strategy. Do you truly believe what you say here? What are you doing about it? Are you supporting corporations, lobbies, and politicians that are trying to change things around or do you just start threads here in order to whine?
            Change will only come from action.  The enemies of liberty, however, prefer you just moan, groan, and complain.  It is up to you and people of like mind.  It has always been up to you.

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               maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I don't recall I heard myself whining!  So far, the only action beside protesting, writing letters, is voting. The problem is when your choices of vote are limited? Obama or Obama. That I long for someone who would express my revolutionary ideals, who would embodies Roosevelt's vision of a government for the people.

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                  Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi again, Max. You are right. You do not hear yourself whining. I am sorry. I did not intend that remark to come across as a “put-down.” Rather, I hoped it would send a message that passively complaining about society without actively molding it to your vision is surrender. So is waiting for another Roosevelt to come along.
                  
                  Demonstrating, letter writing, and voting work but there are other good ways too. Moving your deposit accounts to credit unions or to smaller banks not likely to be sucked up by the big six is another. Vote in the primaries. In many states, the primaries have a huge impact on who are nominated. Contribute to lobbyist who promote programs and legislation with which you agree: AARP, ACLU, NRA, the League of Women Voters, or Citizen’s for your favorite candidate. You get my drift? If the OWS movement resonates with your values, you do not have to camp out, but you can distribute sandwiches or candy bars to the occupiers. If you are an investor, move your equity holdings to “green” or non-military companies. If you are pro-choice, donate to Planned Parenthood. If not, give to religious organizations that provide pre-natal services. Design your own revolution. Money talks; make it talk wherever you want to be heard.   
                  
                  Of course, I know you know this already. My point is the need for the country to convert its frustration and dissatisfaction into actions designed to change the direction of society. Leave the complaining in forum threads to those too lazy to act for their own good.
                  
                  Just another echo from an empty jar. Thanks for listening, Max.

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   maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

   In what way America is not a republic?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Since Obama got into Office, America's been ruled by his agenda.  Not by our Constitution.

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         LookingForWaldenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         How so?

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            Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            He is making public policy and laws, not our Congress, and not the patriotic citizens.  Both have been bullied from day one.  Policy and laws should originate from the people, with individual rights based on set tried-n-true principles, and then go through legislative and judicial branches.  Oh well, might as well even forget the judicial branch, since new appointees there have decided to take over the rights of the legislative branch too!  Example Sotomayor.

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               paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Hey. Hi. How have you been?

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                  Brenda Durhamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Could be better; but could be worse.  I'm not complaining.
                  How've you been?  Better, and hopeful, I hope?!

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               Thorn058posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Yeah cause I kinda remember being consulted when they decided to make me buy car insurance or lose my drivers license. They also consulted me when I had to pay 250 dollars for being ticketed for driving without insurance because I foolishly wanted a place to live  or the 50 dollars I was charged to get my license back. I think the judge did ask me about that one and I seem to remember getting a flyer in the mail from some congressmen asking me to get behind it.
               
               Now that you mention it I'm pretty sure my entire senior class got a say in the 26th amendment allowing us to vote but I can't say that I remember the meeting where they decided I could vote and die for the country just not drink a beer.

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               Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Howdy Ms. Durham. How are ya?
               
               As you know, the United States of America is a republic not a pure democracy. The Congress makes the laws not the President. I doubt you meant “policy and laws should originate from the people” because you must already know the people delegate that authority by electing their congressmen. The President’s job description authorizes him to make public policy and to manage the day to day operations of the government.
               
               Since Presidents do not make laws, I think you are mistaken to claim President Obama is making laws although he does make public policy. You may be referring to executive orders. U.S. Presidents have issued executive orders since 1789 to manage the operations within the federal government. Executive orders have the full force of law when in compliance with Acts of Congress that specifically delegate some degree of discretionary power, known as delegated legislation, to the President. Some executive orders take their authority from a power granted directly to the President by the Constitution. If an executive order is thought to be contrary to the law and/or the Constitution, there are procedures for challenging the validity of the order through legal proceedings.
               
               Finally, to single out Justice Sotomayor for criticism seems particularly odd since her opinions are meaningless without the concurrence of at least four other justices.
               
               Thanks, Ms. Durham, for you views. I always find them interesting.

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   paradigmsearchposted 11 years ago

   "Is America's democracy simply an illusion?"
   
   Now that is a real question and get a real avatar?

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      paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      2 years? I mean really?

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   Ralph Deedsposted 11 years ago

   Our American democracy is not perfect, but neither is it an illusion. We are currently hitting a rough patch consisting of the deepest recession since the 1930s, growing inequality of incomes and wealth, an unsustainable national debt. This has resulted in growing alienation and loss of faith in our system of government. Good government is a scarce commodity in the world today. Perfect government does not exist anywhere that I'm aware of.

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      Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      ++

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   maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

   Quilligrapher, contrary to the majority of the people here, your critique is not constructive

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      maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You can't attack a person without knowing if she/he is involved in the community or not

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         maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         In what way is it relevant in relationship to the question?

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            LookingForWaldenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Why do you keep replying to our own posts?
            Just curious.

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               maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I guess I lost it, didn't I?

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            Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Hey, back attcha Max.
            
            It is sad that you viewed my comment as an attack. No offence intended. No defense required.
            America’s democracy is not an illusion if citizens become involved in all aspects of society that influence the balance the power.
            
            I hope you have a great weekend.

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   maxoxam41posted 11 years ago

   It's been how many years that people are mocked by the congress and the government, and what did they do in return, nothing. They complain and complain about the degradation of their conditions of living and they can vote. What do they do? Everybody believes that one day they will become a millionaire that is the only reason why they vote Republican. This is the American dream. Even when the economical conjuncture doesn't allow it, they are still dreaming.
   Democracy stands for demos ( people) and cratos for power. Did they really use it? The right to vote? If, yes why didn't it work? If, not I guess they got what they deserved. But they shouldn't cry! It's a fair retribution.
   
   Quilligrapher I misunderstood your sense of humor. Enjoy your week-end and thank you for participating.

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      recommend1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It is not working because the system has been fixed to prevent anyone other than the selected candidates of the rich standing for office with any kind of chance of success - and as a backstop, the fair and good minded individuals who do get into office are coerced, lobbied and bullied on side for the rich guy.
      
      It only takes a small change to vote in a whole bunch of 'other' people -d kick the sorry asses of the lickers out of office and put real people in.

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         maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         If they can be coerced, lobbied, bullied... They don't deserve our votes, our supports! Enough of the weak ones. Let's operate Darwin's natural selection. They are not efficient, we eject them!

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    Moderndayslaveposted 11 years ago

    We need a way to have a national referendum to install term limits,they sure aren't going to do it themselves.Two years and GET OUT! no pension, lifetime healthcare and so on. With an approval rating at around 12%,   http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls … l-903.html   you really can't defend the argument that we need "Experienced" politicians in there.Can the newbies do worse.Look at the facts about the insider trading problems and the reluctance they have now to correct it is a clear cut example of "Do as we say not as we do" http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc … ns/249349/ 
    When we have elections for our congressional candidates we should also vote for an alternate.That way when a congressperson violates our rules we can have a recall election immediately.  If they are found guilty of scandal or of derelection of duty,Your Fired,we will drag them out screaming if need be, they work for us not to enrich themselves,enough of this nonsense. I think they know that a sea of change is rolling in.
    http://ppjg.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/5001/

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       maxoxam41posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I fully agree. CALL FOR A REFERUNDUM. Enough of proscrastination, It is time to tergiversate! I agree, their seats are too comfortable! It is time for people to take over the power, to overthrow a marshmallowy congress. If we want the country to move forward therefore we have to make the first step.
       I am still surprised that nobody has decided to legitimate the occupy wall street movement by having at its head someone, to officialize it as a party, structure it...
       You are right, after all, we pay them, we should fire them!

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