Can we tolerate Hubs that only inspire Hate & Fear?

1. 62

   The Lost Dutchmanposted 14 years ago

   For example: a Hub about Obama being the AntiChrist? (Cause his name rhymes with Osama!) Do we have to flag these Hubs? (And see the sick joke starting elsewhere all over again.) Are these Hubs also partly responsible for other dangerous and sick jokes like the "Osama Obama Shotgun Pool" in Maine? I wanted to hear your opinion on the matter, Hubbers!

   replyreport
   1. 0

      Zarm Nefilinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I for one think the topics that start like that should not be banned or removed but locked instead.  These topics are an effort by people who think Obama is the Anti-Christ to find one another and socially network and I don't think extremists need to be so easily allowed to do this.  If someone were to post up "Palin is the Anti-Christ" my response wouldn't be any different.  Labeling someone the "Anti-Christ" is an extremist contention that is absurdly derogatory.  I am in favor of locking topics like this and denying people the opportunity to turn this political forum into a forum where they network for other extremists.  If they want to spout about how Obama is the Anti-Christ then why can't they make a topic called "What do you think about Obama?" and spew their hate in there.  A topic that is rigged from the get go means hatred for someone who isn't even President yet will be front and center in the topic from the very moment it is posted.  Why should we have to post in their topics to deride them?  Why can't they be forced to post a topic in a relevant fashion and then decide for themselves if they want to add a comment under that topic claiming Obama is non other than the Anti-Christ?
      
      If we are going to allow people to come in here and post Obama is the Anti-Christ as a topic header then where does it stop?  Will we also allow people to post a topic reading "Obama supporters are possessed by Satan and will conquer the world and kill Christians if we let them"?  It is one thing to allow people to comment on a topic that is reasonable, even if it is started with the intention to allow people to make what might be opined by some to be hateful gestures.  It is another thing to allow people to come in here and willy nilly post topics that read "Obama is the anti-Christ".  How would those same people like it if someone came in here and posted "Sarah Palin is a fascist dominatrix from Hell who wants to totally control this country" as a topic? 
      
      This kind of stuff is absurd to allow in a topic format without locking it.  That is my contention.  If these jokers want to post hateful crap and network then let it be done in a topic that is a reasonable one that everyone can participate in without having to constantly babysit people who post in derisive topics that are rigged from the start.
      
      I can almost guarantee that if someone came in here and posted "Obama is bad because he is black" as a topic then the topic would be automatically locked.  Obama hasn't even DONE anything yet as President and people are already defaulting him to a strong possibility of being no less than the Anti-Christ himself!  Of course these people probably rationalize this kind of extreme view by arguing that people who go against their understanding of God and doctrine and X-tianity necessarily contain the "spirit" of the Ant-Christ whether they are or are not the actual Anti-Christ, but it matters not.  How can one make an accusation of someone being the fracken ANTI CHRIST when that person hasn't even been sworn into office yet?
      
      
      Geeze.

      replyreport
      1. 89

         Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Zarm - I think that's a good suggestion. Locking them would automatically help them sink to oblivion instead of rising to the top of the hot listings.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Zarm Nefilinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Heya Paraglider.  I agree.  Also, I think I misinterpreted somethings you said awhile back so my apologies for axing you.

            replyreport
   2. 0

      Zarm Nefilinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      I am not objecting to people posting hubs entitled "Obama is the Anti-Christ"  I originally thought you said they were coming into the political forum posting topics entitled "Obama is the Anti-Christ".  I don't concern myself with what people post in their own hubs.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         This is what I was saying Zarm. If they post a hub about it, then let it be. If they come on the forum promoting this rubbish, I make fun of them, and if it is really out of place, I complain to the moderator.
         
         So, I will ignore your last comment to me.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Zarm Nefilinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yeh, my bad Mark.  I completely wasn't paying attention to the fact that hubs were the thing in question and not topics in the forums. 
            
            So indeed I apologize.

            replyreport
            1. 52

               EYECANDY00posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The sad thing is people are saying obama is the anti-christ, my ex-husbands girlfriend told my 8 and 10 year old to dig their graves, because the anti-christ was here.  My son replied, "Until your know more about religion, politics and dumb things please dont discuss politics with me"
               So. its scary to realize a 10 year old has more common sense and intelligence then the people whose vote actually counts, however its wonderful our children will be the future leaders of tomorrow.

               replyreport
               1. 79

                  Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Nice - there is some hope! You have great kids there.

                  replyreport
   3. 77

      BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Are you saying that anything that we should be intolerant of anything us or that we hate? I agree that to deliberatly inspire fear, especially to get your point across is an evil thing.  However, Advising caution against something dangerous is wise.  But, where is the line drawn?  Your headline may be interpreted by some as wise caution, but by others as fear inspiring itself.  My preference is to allow open discussions where people are shown respect, and opinions can flow freely.
      
      HubPages is a pretty important place where people of widely differing opinions can communicate.  When we start labeling ideas, even radical ideas that are different from our own, as "hate" and "dangerous" we are then begin to squash the free exchange of ideas, and suddenly become the very thing that we are intolerant of.
      
      For example, I think burning the flag is wrong.  But I think the flag stands for freedom of expression, so I think passing a constitutional amendment to prohibit flag burning is even more disrespectful to the flag than burning it.
      
      The Obama Antichrist hub has generated a lot of discussion and although the hubber has strong opinions on the issue, yet he did not delete a lot of dissenting opinions.  That hub inspired mistyhorrizon2003 to write her Pre-Trib hub. http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Rapture--is … -it-likely
      
      I gotta tell you, I've been a bible scholar for a long time and she found things that I was unaware of, and found other things that I had forgotten about long ago.  It made her think, and wonder, it made her write.  It was a great hub.  It made me respect her other hubs that much more because I saw what a great researcher she was.
      
      Again, I find myself agreeing with Mark ..."I agree it is offensive, but I will not try and force them out of hubpages" .. dude, we gotta quit agreeing like this, people are gonna start talking .

      replyreport
   4. 52

      EYECANDY00posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      IF NO ONE OPENS THE HUB, OR ACKNOWLEDGES IT, THEN IT WON'T BE PROMOTED.  WE SHOULD NOT IGNORE SOCIAL INJUSTICE HOWEVER, WE SHOULDN'T PROMOTE IT THROUGH  NOTORIETY IF YOU IGNORE THE IGNORANT PEOPLE WHO POST SUCH COMMENTS, THEY WILL STOP POSTING THEM. .

      replyreport
2. 89

   Paragliderposted 14 years ago

   Usually, such hubs receive comments showing that most of the Hub community hold the views expressed in utter contempt, as they deserve. However, this often drives the perpetrators and their henchmen into their corner, where they support each other with ever more extreme outpourings. Banning Hubs is akin to burning books. Generally not a good policy. But I wonder if the Hub Team might consider applying some form of publicly visible disclaimer at the top of hubs that are genuinely offensive, rather like Blogger does? Interesting question.

   replyreport
3. 59

   Mark Knowlesposted 14 years ago

   I don't think we have any choice but to be tolerant of these sort of hubs.
   
   If this is what people think, they are free to publish them here, and I for one would not like to see any sort of limit as to what you can or cannot publish.
   
   Unfortunately, there seems to be a huge influx of religionists who have some strong feelings about politics, and if you look at the "hate" hubs, there is usually a difference of opinion in the comments. 
   
   As far as I can tell, most of these people have come for the fight. Many religions are based on fear and hatred.
   
   Which is why I argue with them on the forums rather than on their hubs.
   
   When some one disagrees with me on one of my own hubs, I know that I have the "delete comment" button, so I always get the last word
   
   I rarely go and read their hate-mongering, but I respect their right to publish it if they choose. Once you have read some of them, eventually you stop visiting. One can only take so much negativity.

   replyreport
   1. 0

      Zarm Nefilinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      My point is they are using this forum to network and I don't think that is a proper use of bandwidth.  If we allow "Obama is the Anti-Christ" topics to go up and then allow people who believe that to network then where does it stop?  What about Neo-Nazis?  They could come on here and post a topic "I can't believe a black man is our President" and use that to network too, and then we are allowing extremists to potentially monopolize our forums by posting topic after topic so that they can connect with other extremists.  In my opinion this phenomenon needs to be moderated before it becomes completely out of control.
      
      I say topics that start with a title that includes derisive or very derisive things in it's title needs to be locked.  If they want to say derisive things, then let them post a reasonable topic so that I can come on here and see topics that are reasonable in nature and participate rather than having to wade through the junk topics that are essentially social networking for the cooks in order to get to something of substance.
      
      For instance Mark, have you ever gone into the Religion forum and disrespectfully made a topic entitled "X-tianity is a joke"?  No of course not.  You may have said it in other places, but you don't make a topic contending it from the start.  If people can come into the Political forum and just post off topic banter that mixes their religious "convictions" with Politics, then what is to stop anyone from going into the Religion forum and posting topics like "Hitler sits at God's right hand" or "Jesus thinks Bin Laden is his first son" or "Jesus thinks Stalin did a good job with genocide "?  What would stop anyone from posting such patently offensive things as topics?
      
      Once the ball gets rolling it's hard to stop without "offending" even more people than would be offended had it never been allowed to roll in the first place, and was locked instead.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Zarm - these are the people I deride, make fun of and generally discourage from posting in the forum. You may have noticed that
         
         What they write in their hubs is entirely up to them.
         
         If I tried to get rid of them, or stop them from publishing this garbage - that would make me as bad as them.......

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Zarm Nefilinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Evidently what they post in a public forum is entirely up to them also, as far as you are concerned.  So as long as they don't spam their hub they can just spam their topics, that seems to be your opinion.  They can just rig a topic from the start, no matter how narrow and according to you they have every right to spam our forums with this non inclusive garbage that allows them to more effectively network and allows us to suffer from garbage topics in public forums that become a circus of narrow topics that blur the lines of politics and religion and are non-inclusive.
            
            No rules Just Right?
            
            I thought the Politics forum was about Politics, so why are people allowed to post a TOPIC about a religious contention concerning a political figure?  I mean, if people can just come in here and post Religious topics whenever and where ever they like we will end up with much more of this.  I know you enjoy taking them to task, but I enjoy posting in topics that are not rigged from the start with what is arguably an extreme view.  This kind of rigging discourages people who might post other things if they come in here and see topics starting with "Obama is the Anti-Christ".  Such garbage cannot encourage serious discussion.  You might enjoy refuting and ridiculing people in such topics, and I am glad you get your kick out of it, but I would enjoy topics like "Obama's Healthcare Plan vs Sen. so and so's Proposed Healthcare plan" with a debate about the merits of said Healthcare plans.  If someone then wanted to come into such a topic and post "Obama's healthcare is a communist attempt to takeover the world and erect the NWO  while screwing Christians in the name of the Illuminati" then fine, let them.  I don't want the crazies driving out other people from posting in this forum because they get all excited and spam junk topics that only they really care about.  I don't object to people posting whatever they want inside of a topic that is at least somewhat inclusive and respects the boundaries of the Political forum, I just have problems with them spamming the forum with a topic that by it's very nature is rigged in only their favor.
            
            It is indeed not necessarily driving them out of Hubpages to lock topics that are patently offensive in a public forum with public rules.  I don't for one think it is curtailing their "free speech rights" to require a certain amount of civility to be displayed in a TOPIC HEADING.  Very specifically and quite deliberately I don't think it is too heavily curtailing their free speech rights for MY understanding of that civility to be imposed on them.  I am also certain I am not the only one that thinks this way, and I encourage others to come forward if they agree with me.

            replyreport
   2. 60

      countrywomenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Mark - I don't know the statistics whether the serious writers participate more in hub comments or forums but my question is if some deranged individual reads certain hubs and tends to act on that (ofcourse this is an extreme imaginary scenario) then who is responsible for it the writer/ the publisher(HP)/the reader like this hub (http://hubpages.com/hub/antichristourtime ) .  Btw you know right mens rea (hence mentally sick person no punishments are awarded to them).

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I do what I can. When this person comes and spouts this rubbish here, I will make fun of him.
         
         I agree it is offensive, but I will not try and force them out of hubpages.

         replyreport
         1. 62

            The Lost Dutchmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I very much agree with this one! That was the whole idea of my "Dear Mister AntiChrist" Hub. By using the Method of Mister Arkwriter, it wasn't very difficult to "unmask" him as the AntiChrist, in exactly the same way he did with Obama.

            replyreport
4. 62

   The Lost Dutchmanposted 14 years ago

   I was really shocked this morning, reading my paper, finding an article there about "The Osama Obama Shotgun Pool" in Maine... I mean, the United States are supposed to be civilized, yes?... I'm asking myself, now: every civilized nation has Freedom of Speech... but are not there really any limits to it?

   replyreport
   1. 0

      Zarm Nefilinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Quite honestly, at this moment in time I don't think our country is too far off from being the Christian equivalent of Iran (as in we came dangerously close).  Hopefully Obama can change this and if a Republican ever gets elected he continues the trend Obama sets, but with Republican values in place that are coherent and not based in just ideology.

      replyreport
5. 58

   weblogposted 14 years ago

   No, but it's easy to ignore them

   replyreport
6. 62

   The Lost Dutchmanposted 14 years ago

   Sunforged wrote this hub "3,800,000 hits for Assassinate Obama - Death threaths and hate Run rampant", a guy in Maine put up a sign reading "Obama Osama Shooting Pool" and Obama is "unmasked" as the AntiChrist in an Arkwriter Hub because "Obama" rhymes with "Osama" and there are 18 letters in the name "Barack Hussein Obama" (18/3 = 6 + 6 + 6 = Number of the Beast). I mean, I am willing to discuss things, and I want to discuss opinions... but this is no opinion, this is... Idiocy with the Big I! You can't discuss ridiculous topics, your only answer can be a ridiculous one, using the same "method", but "re-directing" it... But then, again, I'm thinking about this sort of ridiculous "beliefs" that got Sharon Tate killed, or John Lennon, or made the Holocaust possible. So I'm asking myself, is it enough to make fun of them?

   replyreport
   1. 60

      countrywomenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That seriously gets me worried. Its not thousands of intelligent people who read and analyze these things that matter but one deranged individual who may actually commits these acts that worries me. I have no issues with people who want to preach bible or quran or gita but if their interpretation leads to some "self ordained' liberator taking drastic actions that worries me. Good message forum.

      replyreport
      1. 67

         Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You two definitely got a point there.  I noticed on the news that the security around Obama has had to be the tightest of any US President so far and he hasn't even made it to the White House yet.  It's a shame.

         replyreport
   2. 0

      Zarm Nefilinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I dunno if it's enough to make fun of them, but I will certainly laugh when they get owned by the Secret Service and their dead bodies show up on the front page of national newspapers.

      replyreport
7. 89

   livelongerposted 14 years ago

   I believe Obama said plenty of times on the campaign trail that he is extremely well taken care of from a personal security point of view. I don't think he would have endangered his wife and 2 children, since he was occasionally in close proximity with them, if he thought a sniper could have fired on him.
   
   As for the Christianists and other hatemongers: I think they should post. Shutting them down would only play into a sense of victimhood, something they absolutely love feeling (even though it's completely fanciful). The more these people are exposed for the hateful idiots they are, the more reasonable people will turn away from them. Look at the waning appeal of the KKK.
   
   If you don't like what people write, say so in the comments and give them a thumbs-down. If they don't publish comments not amenable to their point of view, then never visit their Hubs again.

   replyreport
8. 62

   The Lost Dutchmanposted 14 years ago

   I wanted to let you know that this Forum has got me thinking about a Contest... So I started "A Greatest Obama Is AntiChrist Lol of the Year" Contest!
   
   Can We Debunk All These Obama = AntiChrist Nonsense? Yes We Can!
   
   No Hate Rants here, folks! Just tell us which are the Most Ridiculous so-called "arguments" you ever heard of, to "unmask" Barack Hussein Obama as being the AntiChrist. Or even better: just tell us where the fiction is and which "facts" were falsified (and turned into fiction).
   
   Please Nominate Your Candidate! Please Vote! You can win a Priceless Price!
   
   Can you?
   
   Yes you can!

   replyreport
9. 64

   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   I am with Mark on that. I too think these people make a mistake, but I respect their right to do so.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I did flag that hub as inappropriately tagged

      replyreport