Marriage

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   lsmith131posted 7 years ago

   What is Marriage?

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      dashingscorpioposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Marriage is a government legally sanctioned relationship status.
      Should a couple decide to part ways they will need to go through a divorce court in order to be free of each other's legal obligations and marry again.
      Among the benefits of marriage in the U.S. is the ability to collect one's deceased spouse social security benefits for themselves or their children.
      Any wealth or assets accumulated during the marriage is divided in the event the couple files for divorce. You're legally considered "family".
      Essentially marriage is a legal "lifestyle choice" to build a life together.
      
      A few things a marriage is not:
      
      1.  Marriage is not Commitment
      
      Truth be told commitment comes BEFORE there is a marriage!
      Commitment is (behavior) the couple displays within their relationship.
      
      Very few people would marry anyone who was not committed to them.
      Exclusive relationship couples expect the same things as married ones!
      
      With the rise in instances of infidelity and the divorce rates it would be naïve to believe that (marriage) means "commitment".
      There are lots of married couples who are far from being committed.
      And then you have couples like Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn who have been living together for over 34 years. (The ring is not the thing.)
      A commitment is only good for as long as the couple are happy and in agreement to continue the course. No one is "stuck" with anyone!
      
      Last but not least "God" didn't choose your mate for you!
      If God were a "matchmaker" I'm sure the divorce rate wouldn't hover around 50%! Marriage like most decisions we make are at "free will".
      
      2. Marriage is not Happily Ever After!
      
      There is no such place or time! Your work is never done!
      We're either growing together or growing apart. There is no neutral!
      No one is going to fill your days with sunshine and rainbows for life!
      We all evolve and grow over time so instead of expecting things will go smooth don't be surprised when they don't. Some people will tell you that marriage is "hard work". However it's really "A Labor of Love".
      
      Whatever we want out of life usually comes with responsibilities to maintain it whether it's getting a dog, having a baby, buying a home, getting married, or growing a garden.
      
      Essentially the so called "work" is doing whatever it takes to nurture and maintain your "garden" rather than allow it to wither and die.
      It's the mature and responsible thing to do. Take care of what you wanted.
      {After all no one has to have a garden or get married!}
      
      3. Marriage does not mean you are loved more.
      
      Some people view marriage as a "goal" oftentimes women in particular.
      However a wedding and a slice of cake will not make a couple love each other anymore than they did the night before. Your legal relationship status is not a measure of the amount of love you have for someone.
      There are lots of married people who secretly are still "in love" with the one who got away, their "first love", or one of their exes.
      They were forced to settle for "Mr./Ms. Good Enough".
      They had to eventually move on emotionally and physically.
      It was a practical/mature decision they made and not their fairytale.
      
      
      
      

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         lsmith131posted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Wow,  this is good information.Thank you so much for your reply! It only sounds right to have solid commitment before marriage as a marriage would not work if there was no commitment from both sides. A lot of people think that your relationship means happily ever after when you arrange for marriage; I see that this is not always the case, and thank you for clarifying. You gave an excellent explanation. I will keep this in mind when my time comes. Thanks again!

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            dashingscorpioposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You're welcome. Best wishes!

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      Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I always tell kids that they marry because they love everything about the other one. One stays married in spite of everything about the other one.
      
      So, marriage is commitment. Understanding that love deepens to the point that many of the shallow reasons you got starry eyed in the first place are a minuscule part of a real relationship.

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         lsmith131posted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you Live to Lean, these are very good thoughts to keep in mind. Thank you!

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            lsmith131posted 7 years agoin reply to this

            *Live to Learn

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      AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      In my unprofessional opinion, marriage is an antiquated notion whose only current benefits are to convince ourselves that it somehow represents a level of higher commitment, and to get joint health insurance. I mean, if two people want to be together, they want to be together. It's scarier to me that people felt the need to add "But let's get it approved by the government so there's headache and penalty should you dare leave." I mean, wow. Just me *shrug*

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      1. 63

         lsmith131posted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I like your point of view. Commitment should not be defined by marriage. You are right when two people love each other and choose to be in a relationship, marriage is not always necessary.

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            what about the kids that come along due to sex?

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               AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Not loved any less for their parents being unmarried.

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  It'll break their hearts if dad or mom just ups and takes off. It'll break their hearts when mom or dad starts dating other guys. It'll break their hearts to learn their parents didn't love each other enough to get legally married.  Its not like marriage is an ancient tradition and even an instinct for those seriously in love.
                  It is.

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                     AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Married people divorce all the time. Married people leave and cheat on their partners all the time.
                     Married people "take a break" all the time.
                     And it also breaks kids' hearts when they have to watch a nasty court battle because of a marriage license being dissolved.
                     Didn't love each other enough to get married? How does buying a piece of paper indicate that? Who are you to sit atop of your self righteous high horse and say that? Did it ever occur to you that people simply view marriage differently, and that just because you would have to not love someone to not marry them, it doesn't mean someone else would.
                     Marriage isn't an instinct. It's an ancient societal construct that was developed for political, religious, or economic reasons, and the earliest marriages formed were strategic contracts. The concept of marriage to indicate mutual undying love  is a relatively new one, and it will continue to change. We continue it today, but it's the epitome of logical fallacy to assume that because someone doesn't go buy a piece of paper making it difficult to leave, that they don't love their partner enough. That's ridiculous.
                     I'm unmarried and have two kids. The reason I don't get married? Because it's a technicality that I don't even take seriously, and I've never been a fan of societal traditions that have no use and make no sense to me; weddings are pretentious and expensive to me, and the only reason I'd do it is to appease self righteous judgy relatives similar to yourself who think they can judge two peoples' quality relationship by their own narrow minded standards.

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      gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Marriage is supposedly the legal culmination of two people who want to commit to each other.  Marriage is known as the highest form of commitment.  It has been sanctioned by religious authorities, particularly Judeo-Christianity.    Marriage was viewed as so sacrosanct that there were laws prohibiting certain acts aside of marriage.
      
      The positive side of marriage demonstrates the highest form of love, devotion, & respect.  It even has been elevated to a sacrament which is not supposed to be interfered with.  After all, the result of marriage is the creation of new generations.  Marriage equals families & families are the bulwark of humanity.  Marriage requires self-sacrifice for the good of the other.  It also mandates compromise. There is no room for selfishness in a marriage.
      
      However, there is the negative side of marriage.  Marriage is used as a point of dominance, especially regarding the more dominant partner.  Those who are dominant aren't hesitant in using their power in the marriage to subdue the less dominant partner.   Women oftentimes suffer in marriages, particularly in the past.  They had little or no voice.  They were the husband's so-called property & had to obey the husband.  Even today, there are some men who use marriage as a subterfuge for one-upmanship as far as their wives & children are concerned. 
      
      Marriage is also a business among those in power.  It is used to cement power among ambitious couples.  Throughout history, many royal families viewed & used marriage as a means to expand their empire & establish further royal hegemony.  Many rich people marry in order to keep their assets.  Some even marry to accumulate more assets.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   That is a good explanation, dashingscorpio. Especially, where you say we don't have to get married.   As they say: One must be very careful not to end up with a cell mate rather than a soul mate.
   
   In my view, marriage is usually for the sake of doing the right thing for society and the kids who come along. If you establish a spiritual union, go ahead and declare it, legally. I think marriage mostly protects the family unit and also the woman who might become unattractive, compared to younger models, as time goes on. (And vice versa.)
   
   If your boyfriend will not commit through marriage, move on, unless you can be certain of avoiding pregnancy or don't mind and can afford being a single mother.
   
   However, my personal opinion is that it is not fair to the child to deprive him of a legal father. Fathers, it turns out, are very vital to positive child development.
   
   PS Better to rely on yourself and not get involved with someone who just want to use you for recreational sex. If you feel you are also using the person in this way, it will end badly. The sex center and the love center are in very close proximity within the brain. Sex should lead to love. When love is not involved, humans suffer.
   
   Thats why they call it the blues.

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      lsmith131posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hello Kathryn ,
      I love that, "don't end up with a cell mate rather than a soul mate". It is only right to get married for the right reasons, if you do it for the wrong reasons, you may be looking at divorce in the future. Thank you for your reply!

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      gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

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3. 82

   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   I'm only thinking of the kids. Kids need two parents. It was set up that way by nature. Society only tries to give people the advantages nature gives: permanency and security.
   
   If a man could become pregnant, he would make sure to have help… namely a wife who would go out and make money or shoot the deer, whatever it takes for survival. A man would not just stick his baby in the arms of someone else to raise. He would protect, nourish and teach the baby survival skills ... If a man could become pregnant, he would not want to raise his child by himself … or worse,  be forced to depend on the government. If a man could become pregnant he would not be a mere sexual predator.

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      AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      So am I. And I just showed you how marriage does not affect their happiness any differently than if their parents aren't married.
        "Kids need two parents." Maybe, maybe not. And no, it's not "set up" that way by nature, if we're talking about nature of all species in general. A lot of times the father abandons the mother, sometimes there's a harem of females and a dominant male, sometimes there's a group "family," etc. But we weren't talking about that. We're talking about marriage. You were insisting that parents be married, before, and now you're on a completely separate subject.Just because two people are unmarried doesn't mean they're not co-parenting.
        You lost me in the last paragraph. You were starting to talk (I think?) about benefits of having two parents, and then natural survival instincts and then government dependence and being a sexual predator? And somehow it turned into "If a man were pregnant," comparing what it would be like if a man were pregnant, not the woman? What? You're all over the place.
        Regardless, marriage is traditional societal construct which consists mainly of getting a piece of paper and joint health insurance, not a natural thing. Heck, even commitment to one mate is not a natural thing for most species.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         We are not products of biology only. We are spiritual beings with infinite capacity to forgive, forget and love. The only way to prove love is through 100% commitment. The ability to follow through is not easy and takes love and discipline. But, it can be done. Of course, both people have to be willing to make the appropriate effort.
         
         Sadly, this is where human nature usually takes over and the spiritual side of our beings is abandoned: Sheer laziness/inertia. "Too much work. Not enough benefits for me."  However, love and appreciation for your committed other is possible, no matter what, I say.
         
         If you do not get this type of commitment before having sex, don't bother to marry or have children with that type of person. That type of person is merely a sexual predator, (and refers to a man or a woman.)
         
         So beware. Keep the nickel between the knees and the pants zipped up until you find someone to love for the rest of your life and who will love you for the rest of your life, no matter what. If you do not feel this type of love for another, one word:
         
         Abstain.

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            AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Again. Your post has nothing to do with marriage. It has turned into a pep talk about commitment based on your unfounded false premise that unmarried people are not committed to each other or love each other unless they marry. Who says? You? Back to square one.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Its a proactive thing. You can't just go through life winging it. Successful people are future oriented and not merely present oriented. If one or the other can't declare commitment at some one point in time, don't bother.
               
               I would say a marriage ceremony of some sort where friends and family are invited to celebrate the "union" is superior to complying to government required marriage license. Then divorce is not an issue. Just dissolve it with the shake of hands. I have heard of getting divorced in some cultures by saying, "I divorce you!" three times and walking away.
               
               Personally, I can't stand the state of marriage. Its too confining to the soul which truly wants freedom.
               Therefore, I can't have sex with anyone.  oh well, whats better? Freedom or Bondage.
               
               Freedom

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                  AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Again. You. Do. Not. Have. To. Get. Married. To. Be. Committed. My word is enough for my partner, and his is enough for me. So do mind your own business, ma'am.

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Anarchy. Why won't it work? That's the underlying issue. Its more than I can take on.
                     … so BFN

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                        AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Bye, Felicia.

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4. 82

   Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

   People need to regard marriage as a spiritual endeavor. Life is about the next plane. We spend more time on the astral plane than here. So, if you want to learn your lessons and change for the better, toward happiness and bliss consciousness within yourself, change yourself, not your situation.
   
   
   Maybe most people are ready for sex but not marriage.
   
   If you are NOT actually ready for marriage,
   continue going solo.
   
   That's my advice,
   take it or leave it, its your life.

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      AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Learn my lessons? Am I a child? Are we in Sunday school? Did I ask for or want your rude and condescending advice? No.
      What a narrow minded and judgmental person you are.
      I know it's hard for you to believe, but just because YOU, Kathryn L. Hill, believe that marriage is somehow the ultimate form of love and commitment, that does not mean other people see it that way, and that does not mean people do not love or are not committed to each other.
      Have a good evening. If You can't discuss without condescension and judgement and illogical discussion, please take it to fb with the others.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         last I heard, you left HP for awhile to get married!
         Guess not!

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            AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You heard that I left HP to get married? Well, that's not why I left HP. I was going to be married once. He turned out to be quite abusive, despite our undying "Commitment." So the time I was away from HP was probably when I was on the run. Nice rumor you heard though. How adult of you to believe whatever you hear.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               I believed what you wrote.
               who's Felicia ?

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                  AshtonFireflyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I never said I was LEAVING HP to get married, which is what you claimed.  I said I was getting married. Interesting you remember this from 3 years ago though, just obviously not very well.

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     well, I'm glad you avoided a bad marriage! Good Work!!!!
                     and welcome back
                     I just think kids need the sanctity of marriage, but if the couple stays together naturally without an official something or other to hold them together … well, they might even be happier to stay with each other because they won't feel forced.
                     
                     
                     I wonder if Adam and Eve had a marriage ceremony or marriage license?
                     
                     ... but then there is the money and the splitting of assets when they do go their separate ways.
                     
                     Official Marriage protects (or was intended) to protect the woman, perhaps, in the final analysis.

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                        Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Kids don't need their parents to have an official government document.

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                           Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           Kids do well when parents get along and are happy. Whatever condition creates a harmonious and peaceful relationship ... that's what's needed.
                           
                           Sometimes, its the kids that come along who ruin the relationship.
                           Then what?

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                              Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              Kids don't ruin the relationship. It's not good to even make comments such as that because too many have emotional scars from believing such. It is their presence which highlights the differences in values. That slowly erodes the relationship.
                              
                              I did not believe in divorce. Disease gave me reprieve from hell, in the end. But, I do question whether staying married because of belief in its sanctity is in a child's best interests. I don't question others decisions to marry, divorce or whatever. Only the individual knows what course is best for that individual and those whose lives intersect.

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                              1. 82

                                 Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 "It is their presence which highlights the differences in values."
                                 You are right. I'm sure that's what I meant.
                                 My mother would read my diary (I figured this out way later ... recently, as a matter of fact,) and focus only on all the complaints I wrote down about her and many other things … she took it personally and did blame me for ruining her marriage.
                                 
                                 Note to Parents: Step away from the diary or journal!

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