A friend of mine came to me the other day as she was in dilema. You see she manages a shipping and transport company and her regular PA has gone off on maternity leave. Now she's had to hire a temp and she narrowed it down to two people.
One was an experienced but 48 year old lady who was "boring" in her opinion because she was very unfriendly and a little too serious. the other contender was a young 23 year old guy with no experience but very enthusiastic, charming, tall dark and handsome.
Well she eventually hired the guy and I asked her why and she said she just had the biggest crush on him and was more comfortable around him. Now I thought that wasn't fair that the experienced one gets the chop and the other barbie man gets hired.
Is that what the world is coming to these days? people are getting jobs because of their looks??
well in many ways, i wouldn't say that its unfair simply because the man was charming enough to get the job. The lady, though experienced, didn't have the people skills to get the job.
So it came down to which one impressed the manager more. If the lady was boring and uninteresting, then she lacked the skills to "sell" herself. And so i don't think she deserves the job more.
"Getting" a job is a different game altogether than "doing" a job.
The lady was better at doing the job, but the man was better at getting the job.
I have to admit, i may have been hired for my job because of my looks (maybe), and this reminds me! One of my college tutors a few years back said i won't get jobs offered on a plate because of my looks, but i did! I think, anyway! Every job interview, bar one, i got the job! I have been on four job interviews in the last 6 years, and got offered in three, and that's without essential qualifications and experience, not bad.
I have to admit, if i had a business, i would go for younger, enthusiastic, keen to learn employees than older and experienced people. This is because they will bring a new fresh look and feel to the workplace and motivate others with their energy.
I have seen this happen in all jobs i've been in. I think she made the right decision, but let's just hope she doen't get carried away with the crush she has on him!
at the interview, it is usually the person who is enthusiastic who gets the job. if someone acts all grumpy or unfriendly, why would i want to work with them? but i wouldn't hire some guy just because he was cute
Sounds stupid and unprofessional to me. Soon as he shows interest in a pretty young thang in the office or if he tells her he is gay, she is going to fire him. She should have made a business decision.
Yep! And really, women bosses usually are NOT that dumb.
Most of the women I worked for were all business and still a joy to work for. Incomenews knew this was the wrong decision for the wrong reasons. That's why it bothered her.
I think she made the right choice. If someone is enthusiatic and keen, but no experience, then they can learn.
It's not nice working with grumpy people. Despite the womans experience, it's not worth it to have someone grumpy or negative in the work environment, because it will just bring others down.
And unfortunately, yeah people do get hired for their looks in some cases these days.
Once i went to get a job, i walked in a bar, the manager/boss was a 24 year old guy, he gave me a job then and there straight away. I believe it was because he was attracted to me.
Thankyou, yes that is me. But looks don't mean anything you know, life has been a struggle for me, i have been witnessed to many terrible things, and i have endured a lot of suffering. So at the end of the day, looks mean very little.
True looks don't mean a thing at all. I can agree with you that I have seen a fair share of trouble, pain and suffering in my life too. But hey at least we got to see 2010 eh?
I'd even hire a boring tall and handsome guy- He could be much older than me too
The 48 year old lady should have gotten the job. Based on what you said, the reasons for your friend hiring the young stud was not a professional choice, but one of lust. It may all work out fine, but in my opinion, it was the wrong choice. Nothing more than a piece of man candy. How disgusting...
I will not hire this man, I cant concentrate when I will work with HIM
Hey, women sometimes don't use their brains, too.
Age him 5-10 years and I might consider, uh, dating him. Don't know if I'd consider hiring him just based on the obvious qualifications shown, though.
As to the OP...perky, enthusiastic men can be sooooo annoying, looks or no looks, . Probably, I'd consider broadening the job search pool.
I will hire this man as security guard of the building where we work, customer service hehehehe
Ya, my wife loves Ryan Reynolds. I wouldn't let her work with him either. I would never see her again, and I am selfish that way...
A boring old woman.
I wouldn't want any competition!
First off we do not know if the woman was boring, that could just be the lady's interpretation. There are often people that are quiet and not as social, but they can be a very hard workers. Just because a person is not excited does not mean they are not capable of great work. However, it was her choice, but it is rather unfortunate the more experienced candidate was dismissed simply because they were not as charismatic. That is almost a form of personality discrimination, and this employer might want to be careful. Their employment decisions could come back to haunt them later down the line.
don't give lawmakers any new ideas. please.
the lady didn't get the job because even though she was experienced, she failed to convince anyone why she should have the job. if it took excitement to get the job, then she was not qualified, i think.
Hey not giving anyone ideas, but she is well within her rights to pursue this if she was denied employment. Yes it is a form of personality discrimination, and I have seen this happen many a time. Us introverts often get the short end of the stick for not being more outgoing.
is that choice? being introverted.
is it not within your means to express yourself at all times?
introversion comes from the inability to express one's true intentions does it not? for fear of being judged, lack of care, selfishness. there is a plethora of reasons. but one cannot be judged for being receptive to a person who expresses his or herself. Introverts choose not to be heard or understood, so in essence, a lot of times they choose the short end of the stick, i think.
Sorry, but you really do not know much about introverts. Many are not outgoing, and some are because they feel society expects them to be. No offense, but no one chooses the short end of the stick, and someone hiring a person based solely on being good looking or outgoing is setting themselves up for failure. I have actually heard of situations where people regret hiring people like that because they often use their outgoing personality to charm people, and to cover their weaknesses.
On the other hand the quiet candidate might have been able to do the job, she just would not have been as "exciting" to talk to. Honestly, when I hear some people talk about popularity it feels as if we have not evolved past junior high, but maybe that is just me.
well you don't need to assume what i don't know. i used to be one and found it a waste of time. there are some things I am introverted about, and some things I am extraverted about. i wouldn't be dumb enough to limit myself to being called an "introvert". introversion is a limiting behavior was all I was pointing out, so try not to take offense. For some it can be the opposite. But if you want a job that requires working with people, introversion will not take the cake.
i was merely pointing out thatmost times introversion is a choice. people who don't speak up will not be heard.
Sorry, but many intelligent people do consider themselves introverts because they are comfortable in their own skin. They have learned who they are and they are okay with that. As I said such because someone is introverted does not mean they are not good at conversations, they are just not as social and gregarious and a few would like. Seriously, there are many introverts in the work force, and many have pretty good positions too. With that being said I would not go out for some of the more social positions, but in a way the world has not evolved past junior high. I admire those authentic souls that remain true to themselves despite what our culture considers to be the norm. That is truly amazing .
http://hubpages.com/hub/Sherlock-Holmes … -Introvert
As a life long introvert I have acquired to the skills to be outgoing in conversations, but in the past I know I was glossed over for a few sales positions because I did not come off as a "people person". Never mind, I would not want a job like that anyway. I like the Yahoo group the introverts retreat, there are quite a few interesting discussions there. Interesting hub, thanks for sharing!
Welcome, SP. Introverts get a bad rap. The fact of the matter is, they have definite advantages extroverts do not have.
And as I've matured, I guess, I've become absolutely more 'outgoing...' Somewhat advantageous, but also I feel I have lost something...like concentration. They say writing and the artistic fields are the ultimate introvert professions. For that, you need to look within, center, and concentrate. Hard to do when doing Miss Social Butterfly stuff. I look forward to the day when I can be more introverted again, frankly.
And yeah, who'd want a sales job, anyway?
Hey! I'm a boring, bit too serious 48 year old woman...and I want to hire that guy! (What's the job again? Oh, never mind, who cares?! )
At work enjoy talking to people about books and the like, but I am introverted in the sense I am not social party going type. I have no need for it, and really do not apologize for it. Actually now that I am in my thirties I am very comfortable with not being the going out type, and it has advantages for me all around. Want to start publishing articles in print, and continuing to work on my hubs. I have always been more artistically inclined to begin with, but my concentration ebbs because I tend to multitask. I do have hardcore concentration at times, and I also have a work ethic that kind takes people aback.
That is why I hate to see experienced candidates passed over for someone who make everyone feel more comfortable. I understand in the business field that is desired, but as you said could they not have broadened their candidate search. Just sounds like this employer will have problems down the road if they are hiring people because of looks. I also have had a few acquaintances that were hired because the boss fancied them. They never admitted to it, but I have an inkling that a couple of more qualified candidates were passed up because of them.
a person is not qualified if they can not convince someone why they are.
so in actuality, it is not the employer who is causing the problem, but the person who is not expressing their ability to get the job done. They create a lose-lose situation. It's not up to the employer to pry in order to find out who is qualified.
If i were in the employer's shoes, I wouldn't hire someone for their looks, but I would rather work with someone who is willing to speak their mind and makes their feelings known.
someone who is mainly introverted tends to cause more problems by holding things inside, and then letting it all out at once in a reactionary manner.
no one is asking you to apologize for being introverted. however, you can't expect people to understand where you're coming from if you don't let them know.
And I can testify that being hired for looks frankly, sucks. Scenario: Much older bar owner, young college age cocktail waitress, serious about school. Recipe for disaster. Personal knowledge.
And I work in PR, lol. One advantage I have over my predecessor is that I can actually write, and former acquaintance mag. and newspaper editors know that (influence of another kind). Therefore, our PR is published quite a bit. Another reason is that I am more likely to want to feature other employees and give them credit for their work and contributions to highlight our industry, rather than have my face plastered on TV and voice blabbing on the radio..... Frankly, a lot of the 'sales,' 'party goer,' 'extrovert' personality is the American excuse for being narcissistic.
Often, yes, the employer's mistake and loss.
Unfortunately there are probably many situations where people get hired for looks or personality, and yes this is the way of the world. However, at least some people do not solely rely on that aspect, and actually go on to prove themselves. Guess in the end the it does work out for those who work the hardest. The world was never fair anyway .
Honestly, it depends on how necessary charisma is to the job. I don't know what the PA is (public accountant?) but boring, serious, and hardworking are fine for certain jobs, better even. Then others require personality. I've known people that can sell anything, even when a customer comes in to complain - they leave happy and with new products or contracts, it's great. I could never in my life do that. It all depends on what's needed.
Agreed. And surprisingly, the main attribute of an introvert is that they can do everything an extrovert can do--including charm and persuade and sell. They just need down time, too...oh, and there have been studies about, uh, intelligence concerning introverts, too. Won't state the findings here, though,
Suffice it to say, my bf, an introvert, can knock the socks off selling architectural concepts, but he is not a partier or a 'true' sales type...nor would I appreciate him if he was.
being an introverted salesman. that's kind of a catch 22.
i don't think looks has much to do with it. Even the most aesthetically pleasing person can be considered ugly without a personality.
i'd be more attracted to a woman who believes in her mind that she is the prettiest and exudes it in her attitude.
it's all about attitude.
Seriously, Wesley. Read the Hub. Also a book called "The Introvert Advantage." It isn't what they'd have you think (I take it you are in your 20's?). Some of our best and brightest are introverts... This might help you out.
Now you did post that thread about being open to things, didn't you?
And yeah, the bf isn't a sales person per se, but he sells what he loves: Architecture. Last time I checked (it's been 5 years), he seems successful, and self-employed.
i wasn't even talking about your bf. i didn't read your post before i put that down. you should practice this introversion thing a little better.
i never said introverts weren't smart or capable. I said they are likely not to be heard.
I wasn't assuming you WERE talking about my bf...did not take it at all personally. It was a point of general discussion and I offered an example and an interesting hub and book. That's a mistake I think someone not that experienced in conversation may have made. lol And thanks for the input, but I think I'll listen to my own inner voice (introversion), and rely upon the info. I have read on the subject.
Books and knowledge and different points of view really are NOT that bad of things, honestly.
way to not take responsibility for your words.
Um, no, kid. I don't lie. I'm said exactly what I wanted to say here.
A 40 year old man with two kids making over $100,000 a year doesn't need reassurance of a forum poster on hubpages, and neither do I regarding him (only said to prove my words, btw).
Only reason I told you about the book is that it sounds like you as a somewhat introverted personality went though much of what we all went through, and it may be interesting to you and could help you. No other reason.
If you recall, I defended your previous posting on other threads. Now I'm thinking the teacher (Mr. Bogle) might have had a point.
Cheers! And good luck with sales, if that's what you want, .
I think the opposite is also true-- a person can be physically unattractive, yet still have a kind of quiet confidence and compassion that shines through.
Also, I am often put off by an "outgoing" salesperson.
I actually have walked to the opposite end of the store to avoid some of those people .
Don't many of us. Loud is not appealing.
And when I worked in sales, some of the best sales people were the quiet ones who actually LISTENED to people. Again, I think there is a mistake made: We are sold a bad load of goods in high school with 'popularity,' etc. Yeah, tell the medical student that cheerleader-like capacity is what it takes to succeed.
I have a feeling this is a lesson he may have to learn the hard way. He is being pretty insistent right now, and if his sales strategy is at all like this, well I am not buying what he is selling. Harvey also tries to tell me what I should think, and I was pretty tacit about how I was not going to buy that either.
why do outgoing people "put you off"?
and the first thing you said wasn't opposite at all. It was exactly what I meant in my post. that attitude is important, not looks.
Many introverted women have attitude. Attraction means different things to different people. I have had some pretty haughty, yet attractive guys, approach me, but I was not interested because they came off as being a little too narcissistic as it were. So not everyone wants to be a sales person, and you would be surprised. I am confident I am just as attractive as the girl who is out there talking to everyone in the club. I just do not have to be on display to feel this way. Different people are certainly attracted to different things.
Yes. And a thing about those kind of attractions is that they have a very shallow element. I think it takes a little experience to figure this out...because a lot of us were fed that same line of crap in high school.
And agreed, true confidence is about being comfortable in your own skin. The most attractive thing.
I have still been in social situations where people think it is high school. One of my acquaintances knows she has this hold over men because of her lithe body, and her cute looks. She often says contradictory things about how she hates people being perceived a certain way, but unfortunately her looks have helped her in many situations. It got to the point I had to tell her I actually think she got the last few jobs because of this, especially since she had romantic interludes with several men that hired her.
introverts are capable of great things. they can also be very self involved, expecting people to notice them. lots of times, i have been in situations where I would have appreciated someone's opinion, or could have used the information they held back simply because they thought having sole access to that info gave them some sort of "quiet" power.
it goes both ways. introverts are not any better, but some of their qualities are better.
blue, don't bother. you can't have debate here. there's too many people still pining over high school. adding a valid opinion got me attacked and now I have lessons to learn.
well, i don't know about the debate thing, but you've got a discussion going with two of the finest on the site. you're a lucky guy.
hope you and harv have figured out the bull from the stud:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTA1U6F … ature=fvwp
Must be Star, star leaves and you show up.
Incorrect. He (also a friend), doesn't like offensive remarks for no real reason, however.
it's strange how that works.
now you're really confused.
Yep, BD and I are friends. He's a photographer and architectural designer and lives in TX (could even be my boyfriend, actually, lololol. Resembles him in what he does at least...haha).
But NO, I'm a photographer and writer who lives in another SW state, so! You see we are not one and the same. But believe what you want! You do in other threads, we see that.
Ditto...or whatever. I read your hub. I saw your reaction to pgrundy's thread. One of the finest writers we have had here.
Just. Oh, my.
Losing her was a devastating blow to hubpages income I'm sure.
Much more in PR value and money than would be losing you. That's just an honest fact.
Can't you be kind to anyone? Like I said, apparently people are just here to be unpleasant now.
Sorry, just knowing who you are is reason enough to hang around to see what will offend you next.
Huh? That doesn't even make sense.
Are you very bored or something?
He probably wants to flirt. They consider fighting to be enticing for some odd reason.
"Odd" is right. Still the same things going on here. Why are you back in the forums, SP, anyway?
yes, both of you should be here. you have no idea what it's like when you two are awol.
fortunately william is around some, along with ralph, and yes, wesley. the true breaths of fresh air are so few and far between these days.
I am indecisive at times and say I should stay away, but then I always feel drawn back. I like seeing what Starr, Ralph, and you all have to say though .
actually, butt-wipe, assets to any community are not based solely on their financial worth. there are leaders who are respected because of the contribution they make thru inspiration and leadership. it's obvious to the entire planet as they read this thread or any others that you participate in how pathetically absurd is your ability to bring enlightenment into any discussion.
No one is pining over high school, just adding other view points. Actually the point about the high school/junior high thing is a social being is not all it is cracked up to be. As adults we need to get past thinking just because someone is reserved that they would not be a good candidate for a job. Given some positions require a degree of more social interaction than others, but there needs to be more than one criteria for hiring someone.
somebody was pining. it wasn't you though.
i don't think the idea is that someone who is reserved isn't a good candidate, but more that the person's good qualities are overshadowed by their reservations. the most talented person in the world wouldn't be given the time of day if they never showed their talents.
what criteria do you think should be involved in that process? how would you do it?
I am not an HR expert, but maybe you should ask Starr. He seems to have some good ideas about this.
She, SP, We are friends, lol. You know who I am, write? Emails, much??
i would, but Starr seems to think the world revolves around him and his salary. but maybe he does have good ideas. hopefully we might hear them when he calms down and starts to debate instead of attack. not very HR right now.
He is calm and whereas $100,000 is a good salary, keep in mind he earned it. He had to start some where, and he was willing to listen to get there.
i'm not questioning his integrity in the work place. I don't know the guy.
i'm sure he worked hard to get it. that's not the issue. none of this has to do with the issue.
Actually it does because you have proclaimed him as being anxious, which I have not got at all. However, he left the conversation, so I guess it is up to him if he wants to come back and add more.
He was actually a She. haha, replying to one of your comments, i think I offended HER.
well anwyway, she's done, so i would like to get back on topic.
do you honestly think that employers should be more aggressive in unearthing the past experience of introverted applicants?
I believe the best employer would gather a large group of qualified employees. Past and current experience should always be accounted for.
Okay so here's a scenario:
you are interviewing two people for a sales position. One person has worked with several Fortune 500 companies while the other has only done some outside sales and membership sales.
The first person is reserved, sitting back in their chair, nonchalant and introverted, seeming not to really be involved or passively expecting to be hired without any issues. They seem unexcited and unmotivated to fill your position and though they have had previous experience, are a little jaded and quite frankly, boring. This man is over 40, balding, dressed badly and somber in their body language and facial expressions.
The second person, though less experienced, has shown up with two copies of their resume, filled out the application on line, called several times to check up on the application process. They are very involved in the interviewing process, asking many questions and even adding ideas, expressing a knack for the job in question. This is an attractive, charismatic young lady.
How do you respond to this scenario?
Interview more candidates. Hardly ever a real-life situation you are posing. Just cliche. And I more resemble the latter candidate...and as I said before, have been hired on the basis of my looks.
Serious women want to be hired for their ability level. Everything generally works out better that way.
Sweetie never offends me, sorry. As stated before, we are friends. She used 'he' for a specific reason.
Your tone and your absolute need to take offense were slightly offensive, however. Honestly, if you took that tack in an interview, I would see it as a problem...quote, quote, 'outgoing' or not.
'Discussing' with you, yeah. But like I say, SP is a friend, as I said.
Dear, I thought you said you had no problem reading or expressing yourself. I am the gf of this guy. You did previously talk about my bf, right?
Done here. Not worth it.
Since I work in PR, attend parties regularly for the job (woop), don't think I was pining for high school.
I may pine for more introverted time in order to write more books, however.
No worries, BD, . This forum is just going south faster (oh, don't take that personally!) and faster. I'm thinking of ONLY publishing hubs, or getting off all together, like pgrundy.
I like publishing hubs and doing other things too. I am not going to let a few bad experiences sour me on Hubpages. I actually like it for my backlinking. I do make some money here after all, and one day when I publish a book I think it will be of benefit to me . I understand pgrundy wanting to leave though, but I still think there is value in staying.
It would depend on the situation to be frank. I might choose the older man if I did a background check and was able to determine he had certified real world experience in this field. If the lady were trying that hard though, I can maybe see choosing her. However, the looks thing would have nothing to do with it for me because, seriously, I am more interested in picking the qualified person.
this forum is fucked. we were starting to go good there. people, you need to really let this nonsense go.
i think that, replying to the original thread, women are way more likely to make business decisions based on emotion than men are. No matter how bad an argument got between me and my male superiors, I was never given the silent treatment. Though most (not all) female superiors I had, I had to tread carefully more often.
I think that choosing the attractive male was more an emotional decision than a rational one.
SweetiePie, i think that your approach to hiring through application review and past experience sounds more like a male perspective (at least from what I've experienced, not judging the entire workplace). Do you think in this example, that was the case?
Um, I realize you are addressing SP, but I find the whole tone, "women are emotional," etc. very insulting.
I find the opposite to be true. Especially among successful women in any sphere...they are, as Friendly said, almost always "all business," because they've had to be. Men are more likely, often, to hire women subordinates based on looks.
don't be so insulted. it is more than true that women have a lot more issues with hormones and emotions than men do. I wasn't pointing it out as a negative.
Okay, that just sounds like commentary from one of those "change of life" films from the 1950's .
I guess PMS, pregnancy and monthly bleeding from the vagina are all just myths.
He really wanted to list all of that out. Sorry Wesley, but I do not think women have a tendency to act more emotional than men. Actually, I have met quite a few drama kings in my day!
and I think that you are in denial, a little bit.
I actually see the ability to look at things emotionally as part and parcel of femininity and a strength. You should be proud of that. I think that it's women trying to be equal to men instead of being themselves that overshadows that ethic.
You really need to let women think for themselves. I think your intentions are noble, but, many women I have met are actually far less emotional than many men. Men and women are equals and it is not about "trying," because we have evolved past that mentality. Now more women are accepted to law school than men, which used to be considered a field that was too "logical" for women.
i understand what you mean, but I think you missed the point of what i was trying to say.
what i was trying to say is that, women, instead of thinking for themselves, creating their own sciences and theories, mastering their own laws and creating their own identities, have resorted to simply trying to be "equal" and NOT thinking for themselves in many cases. Instead of creating their own incomes and taking power into their own hands, have been trying to mimic the man. I think that the ability to perceive and apply emotional aptitude is a strength for females and quite possibly the solution to things like war and poverty, symptoms of patriarchal "thinking". I wasn't saying women weren't deserving or capable of doing things men do, but rather, they are capable of doing things differently and simply...don't.
Do not take this the wrong way, but is English your first language?
Uh, feminism circa 1980's. ? Or just perhaps another way of saying the same kinda insulting, emotional stuff displaying a certain attitude towards women? Or..?
"Love and Will" is a good book... All people have an innate will to use their creativity. Male or female. I cannot possibly write all that should be said, but it is well said in that book.
whatever i say insults you, it seems. i do not understand at all how anything i said was insulting (except for excluding the word "some" which Blue has pointed out).
and what attitude do you think i take toward women?
You have managed to offend the most offended person on Hubpages. Congratulations!
Paternalistic and a little silly. I'd say you don't have that much experience (just from what I've seen.)
Have you met RK Henry? (I'm assuming you ARE a young black man...at least you do sound like it.) He'd never be saying some of the things I've heard you say. His GF would verbally abuse him, and he doesn't seem to want it any other way.
Do you think all Black people know each other? That is the most offensive thing I have ever seen.
OK, I see you are the one provoking. I said have you 'met' RK, a friend of mine.
And no, my black boyfriend would never have said any of the things you have said here....which are offensive, and I'm sure probably fun or something for you.
oh gosh. you are really...i don't even know what to say to you. You are so blatantly trying to offend me, further proving everything I said. Trying to say that I'm silly, I don't have much experience. what is your motive here? really?
you know absolutely nothing about me. but you pretend to know so much.
I sound like a black man? And what does a black man sound like? enlighten me.
Now you are just getting increasingly ignorant by the second. Not to mention you can look at my picture and tell that I am an African American man.
I was just joking with you previously, but now, I think you are...i'm trying to look for a nicer word than stupid.
And female. What gave it away?
I'm not offended.
And I still think your views are silly and paternalistic. And no, Robert would never hold them.
well its good that I asked, and didn't assume.
if you don't know what gave it away, you should print this conversation out and give it to your boyfriend. He might tell you what gave it away.
as per insulting women, i think you just take the word emotional in a negative context, and you think that I am posing it in a negative context. I don't think that any rational woman would have been insulted and would have at least by now, given me a compelling argument.
Not really, Wesley, because a rational woman would see most of your postings as nothing more than provocations. I also don't feel like writing a thesis (already wrote a paper a while ago to that effect).
And I should explain (but no doubt you'll make crap out of this, too) that I've sort of got this ability to tell a lot about a person from their words... Ie, met both of my last boyfriends online, writing. I think poets sort of have this ability... And I did study linguistics. Hey--it could even be that emotional sense you are talking about. lol Who knows.
don't call yourself rational. you are everything but. A rational women would have convinced me of the plot holes in my argument, which I know are there, you simply are not intelligent enough to unearth them. You just get offended and think I'm trying to provoke you.
and you have so far told nothing true about me from my words, except for looking at my picture and saying that I was Black.
You are obviously in love with yourself and your "abilities". You think having an African American boyfriend means you understand me and have the right to call Mitch racist because of where you thought he was from.
You are another silly little girl with a large sense of entitlement. Be offended. Be provoked.
You are a victim and want people to like you and/or pay attention to you.
Mitch, you can have at it man, you are on your own now. My head hurts from dealing with this. Really, where is Bovine when you need him?
No, I'm simply not that interested or inspired. Nice strawman, though. If you don't understand, create something to get upset by. I'll just say you are being impolite. OK?
You have convinced me to be done with these forums, though. Thanks. I think I needed it.
Her words will stand for all to see, I think any RATIONAL person can see the hatred in the statements. Should be reported for hate speech!
sorry, wesley, you've got some of this wrong. most glaring is the credit you give to the troll.
regardless, it's been a good discussion and some day you and star might agree on a few things. in fact, i'm quite sure of it.
you don't need to apologize Blue.
i was trying to stay light hearted, and I still am. Hopefully one day we do agree, but some things that were said to me clearly lacked any type of compassion or duality. Do you not see that?
I don't even know where Star stands in the debate because I was constantly told simply that I was wrong instead of "why" I was wrong, instead of being convinced through a logical debate, which I would have been receptive to.
there might still be a chance, but i won't respond to bickering any more.
As per Mitch, I understand where he's coming from. If you let him offend you, then you misunderstand him. I think he's quite funny.
Thank you, you won't get anything from these two other than "I'm an Author" and the dog says "Your boyfriend is so lucky". Intellectual debate is the farthest thing from their minds.
No. Actually, I knew RK was black (that is supposed to be an ignorant thing?), because of the way he expressed himself (semanitcs, yeah?). And was right. He was not offended. You definitely are trying to provoke...
I would say you have similar expression and are representing yourself here visually so, so I assume you are. And of course you know about dialects, Eubonics and have studied linguistics as I have?
But thank you. You prove to be more and more what Allan Bogle said. Sorry.
And the current bf has told me what part of TX you come from. Not pretty. What an unlikely alliance. Don't imagine you voted for the sitting president, right?
Its not pretty? Doesn't know much about where I'm from, glad you have a boyfriend though.
Right. Whatever. Your 'views' on the political forum are very Waco. And I honestly don't really care.
Must be delightful to be so bored to go through all those manipulations.
"very Waco" How sad and empty your life must be, hatred towards other races and other places is draining on your soul.
Kartika Damon has written a very good hub about the Republican party and projecting.
A very telling statement you made here.
This is very telling
"Paternalistic and a little silly. I'd say you don't have that much experience (just from what I've seen.)
Have you met RK Henry? (I'm assuming you ARE a young black man...at least you do sound like it.) He'd never be saying some of the things I've heard you say. wink His GF would verbally abuse him, and he doesn't seem to want it any other way. smile"
OH, my God. That was a joke. Geez. Trust me, if RK was on the thread, he'd get it.
Don't take it wrong, but I do not trust anything a certain type of a Republican says. Or someone trying to be unpleasant. And you are. Sorry.
i wouldn't call it hatred. i would call it ignorance.
Yeah, and I'm sure it may be easier for you to believe that. I noticed the copious listing as well. Slightly telling, almost emotional.
There is actually a logic to semantics usage, you know.
I never needed to sleep with a boss to get ahead on any front. Academic or in the professional arena, if that is what you mean.
that is not at all what i mean. in fact, i retract that statement.
i was referring to your not so subtle attacks, trying to use the word "emotional" over and over to try and provoke me or...whatever. how what i said was...telling. even though you clearly misunderstand just about everything I say.
OK> That is the point. So--calling women "emotional" isn't an attack?
Rest my case.
And no, I don't need to provoke, and wasn't. I do mean what I said in the last post, though. That is an old school take on feminism. And my comments were my own way around your words, which I did take to be a subtle attack. As is calling women 'emotional.'
I just completely disagree, sorry. That's just a cliche.
And frankly, I've never heard of many women in the work sphere freaking out and leaving their wives for secretaries and the like. Politicians having life-ruining affairs usually are not female, either.
well what's the ratio of female politicians to male politicians? that might play a hand in the likeliness of a man being caught in the act rather than a woman.
But the sex partner is usually a woman from their staff trying to get ahead!
Not among my peer group. Doesn't work out very well, either, actually. You want to be seen as an equal, not a as some slut....
And believe it or not, intelligence and ability do have a habit of flushing the wheat from the chaff in the end.
Of course your peer group would be the exception
No, sir. Cannot say I've ever known anyone that slept with their boss to get ahead. Apparently you have, though. Good for you. We don't go around in the same circles. How unusual is that?
Hence, the term "I have never known." "Not in my peer group." Capiche? No friends of mine have ever done it. They would not be my friends.
And I currently mainly work with men in their 30's, not Ken dolls, either, with a female boss.
The real truth is you do not know. I doubt many woman would admit to that, even though the majority of employees who sleep with their superiors are women.
NO. What I said is my peer group: Ie, friends, have not slept with bosses to get ahead. I have no idea frankly, where you come from, but I don't live anywhere near that sort of gutter. Also, I think your 'facts' may not be facts, but some made up scenario in your head.
well, of course. what are the choices? pelosi? hutchison? clinton?
Well...Star I'm not too comfortable with all these female teachers grabbing boys out of the classroom. What's wit dat?
Blond ambition? lol
Who knows. But I've noticed they are almost always dye-job blonds. Except for the original. Now SHE was just mental. A thirteen year old!
How did we get to Mary K? She and her kind are not the typical female teachers, rest assured. Mary K had a very repressed religious upbringing, and her father cheated on his wife. Later on her husband cheated on her, and let us just say, she needed help! She did not deal with betrayal the way an average person would.
Star and I were not even thinking about Mary K. She was crazy. We were talking about unprofessional Men and Women.
young cougars practicing for the inevitable mid-life crisis.
That's exactly my experience. I dont know of any women bosses that had the luxury of making stupid decisions.
it seems that most of the women on this thread are justifying the lady's decision to choose the rookie handsome guy over the experienced boring lady.
well you can go back and count how many times that picture of the handsome muscular actor has been copied with a response "I would hire this guy in heart beat!"
you shouldn't sense so much negativity all the time. let go of all those useless emotions. laugh a little bit.
i'm not sure it's ignorance at all. perhaps a small bit of the cougar syndrome. really, until the photoshopped studmuffin appeared, the decision could have gone either way. sex sells, and it works as easily for women as men, as some of the responses on this thread indicate.
bickering intellectuals can be so damn boring. it kinda defeats the purpose of the term intellectual.
Come on Wesley! You had some long, drawn out, knock down drag out fights since you been here! Admit it!
I have had a friend who had a relationships with several of her bosses, but never wrote her off as a person. She had a really challenging home life where her father was not around, and some weird ideas about authority figures. I am not justifying what she did, but I was not going to end my friendship over her actions. I let her know what I thought about it, and she admitted it was wrong. She finally went to counseling to get help with this, and has moved on.
Well this person had her flaws in that one area, but when it came to other things she understands me more than anyone I have met. We grew up together, and we have had our trials, but we are still friends. We are not as close as we once were, but as life moves on people often become more distant for various reasons.
Can I put something out there. I dont think women are free to be themselves until they are established in their field, just like men. If you look at a female attorney in a court room; you dont mistake her for a man in any way. If you check out a women that owns her own business; I think you would see a more relaxed woman as compared to a woman trying to make it up the corporate ladder. Women that have to compete in a Mans World have to lose some of themselves as women...I think.
What possible difference could it make where I'm from, I mean it has to be pretty or my opinion is null and void?
It really does not matter where anyone was from. Location is a state of mind, but when you start writing hubs about how people from Michigan fall into a certain category, then maybe you should not be so offended if someone makes a comment about where you are from.
I guess the recipient did not get the meaning of my last message LOL.
This started out as a very good and important discussion. You two really dont have an argument here. You both made some very good points. I enjoyed this thread.
I didn't really read all of the rants on this page. But, from what I understand, this tall handsome man is only temporary until the other employee returns from leave. Is that correct?
At any rate, there was a report on televison about this exact same topic. They took two people, both of them very attractive, and sent them around to job interviews to see if they would get hired. Both of them were well recieved, and were given on the spot interviews. They were also both hired by a few of the places that they went.
They then took the same two people, and used makeup to drastically change their appearance, and sent them back to the same companies, with the exact same experience, even better, only less attractive. And, they were not received well at all.
There was one that the poor girl went to, where she was hired, when she went to the same company not so attractive, she couldn't even get past the receptionist, and the guy who hired her left and walked by her without so much as eye contact.
The guy was treated only slightly better than her, and was actually hired by the person who hired him the first time.
But that was the only person out of 6 who had hired both of them before.
They went back to the companies with the videos from both interviews and blew their minds! They were pretty much speachless, and the poor girl said, that it was the most degrading thing she ever did. They were downright rude to her, especially the receptionist at the one business.
As a side note, I sat in on some job interviews, and I remember seeing by boss interviewing this very handsome young guy, and I said to a couple girls I worked with. I said, see that guy, I bet she hires him on the spot. We made a bet. They lost.
We were training him 3 days later. Gorgeous, like a model.
He didn't stay long, he got a better job in a mens clothing store. Good for him. I wonder what he's doing now.
A couple of these guys sure do not know how dramatic us dudes can be. I wear a hoopskirt, but I AM A Man!
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