I’m living in the USA for almost thirty years. I originate from the society that follows our Jewish traditions in all the aspects of life, including raising children, and as a result we have mostly fearless man that turn out to be exceptional husbands, leaders, warriors, etc. In this country, as time goes by, I see more and more weak and feminine men: I see men that are afraid to lead, afraid to take responsibility, afraid to tell the truth, and afraid of a women, etc. These men gossip like a women, and are emotional. I would like to hear mostly from men: Why do you think that it is so and if you are happy about it?
What does fearlessness have to do with being a man? Why would I need a leader or a warrior for a husband? Why do you assume that feminine equals weak? Why do you think that women are gossips? Where were you raised? In a jungle?
My husband is the strongest man I know but he shows emotions and fears. And he may not fear me but he damn sure respects me. *Grins* With your attitudes you wouldn't last a week in my house.
I would respond to you but your bold and masculine statements here on the Internet have intimidated me and made me wet myself, and now I must run off and wash my skirt before my wife finds out I have soiled it and gets mad at me.
What warrior society, specifically, do you come from? Please give the name of this place. If you're going to hold America as a whole up to this ideal culture of heroic warrior-men, you must tell us where that place is, by name, so we can either ladle adulation on its awesomeness, or rip this ridiculous assertion you've just made into to shreds.
1. Just so you know, what "you see" is called anecdotal evidence, which means it's not actually evidence; it's your opinion based on observations you make, which are limited to where you choose to go and what you choose to see. Everything else, everywhere else, in all other places (and even in the places you are but aren't noticing, aren't seeing, or aren't capable of understanding) gets past you, therefore rendering your claim here a nice bit of forum fodder, but otherwise meaningless and a bit trollish, though I do not assert (yet) that you are a troll.
2. Perhaps if you frequented places where "manly men" were, you'd see more of them. I bet this observation of yours is really a matter of birds of a feather flocking together. Maybe you are actually way more of a sissy-boy you think you aren't, and yet, because you are the least of the weaklings around you, and perhaps not the sharpest among them, you can't figure out why everywhere you look, they're all nancies. Just a thought.
I see a comment from someone who is afraid to read history, afraid to read literature, afraid to delve into the nature of humanity and discover that all of humanity remains as it always has, in all its gradations of "gender roles" which wasn't even a concept two-hundred years ago. There have been fops and fairies since the dawn of time, and there have been brutes, braggarts and boors as well. Somewhere between them, and often tipping the scales one way or another personally, the species manages to find leaders and inspirations for itself, and there never have been, nor is there now a shortage of men (and women) willing to go fight and make war (a.k.a. warriors).
Your entire point here is absurd, fallacious and lacks any context of intellectual value at all beyond a chance for someone like Brenda to come in here and fire up the gay-hate stuff again, and maybe you can both argue for the values of your respective Bronze Age religions for the 100-zillionth time as a way to return us to the age of perfection from whence both of those loving and peaceful religions were born, ages of enlightened peace and eternal masculinity of the most refined order... oh, wait, that's not what happened at all.
@Dzephaniah, I think like anything else on earth, people evolve. What are are referring to are the men of the past who used to hunt and beat their wives and she had to wait on him hand and foot. Those days are long gone but they will come again but maybe with a little more balance.
This response is my personal opinion and not based on fact or research
I think man (human) is in a learning stage/phase where things must meddle and mingle in order for us to find the right balance in life, love, success and relationships.
At some point in the future man will find that balance between the macho and metrosexual man in order to be a better husband, partner, friend and "man".
Look at the different stages men have gone through and where they are now. They have come a long way to being the caring, sensitive and homely people they are. Allow them to evolve without passing judgement.
Let's not forget the macho men from Ancient Greece - great warriors who wore skirts, not very choosy when it came to their sexual preference. I don't think they'd feel any less masculine if their wives asked them to take the chihuahua for a walk.
I think men who wear skirts are sexy and macho, kinda always want to peak under that skirt you know.......
I don't see the big deal with how men are.....my philosophy is this.....look inside yourself and fix you instead of trying to fix others. Like that bible verse where we were told to take the plank from our eyes instead of trying to take the mote out of some else's eye.
What bothers me about people are not their personalities but their attitude. How they treat people not how they function as a gender. I don't care which woman is masculine or which man is feminine. People who separate others based on gender are always phobic about something.
KILTS... I spent some time in Scotland you do not... and I repeat do NOT... want to call them skirts. Nor for some reason do you want to call a Scotsman British.
Oh and if you are a real man do you really need a big dog to help you hunt or protect you? I mean cant you just shake your prey violently in your teeth until it dies and/or throw dung and puff up your chest until any opposing males flee in terror? Isn't that what real men do or some such? Maybe these men with small dogs are carrying them around as snacks on paws... when they get hungry they will just tear their heads off and drink their blood.
In American schools the classroom setting is intolerant of the male tendency to act masculine. It is seen as a distraction that they combat by diagnosing them with attention deficite disorder. The teachers unions attempt to intimidate some parents into putting their kids on Ritalin, and the schools actually get extra government funding for every kid who is diagnosed with ADD.
It's not just boys, Onusonus. But I know that every school has its own standards and character. If you go to an inner city school, you'll see that girls are just as disruptive in their behavior as boys and they get penalized just as much. But generally, boys do tend to be a bit more active, although I wouldn't consider that "masculine behavior." Thinking like that would leave an eight year old boy who likes to sing and play violin looking like a sissy. And that's not fair.
I do not lable character based on interests in the arts. It is evident however, that there is an epidemic of faddish diseases that spread to our young ones at the diagnosis of teachers who simply do not want to take on the responsibilities that the growing disfunctional families in America lay on them. It is a moral failure on the part of parents who refuse to instill values in their children and the government ran institutions that produce developmentally unequipped adults who go out into the world with a sense of entitlement. And when they step out into the real world they are introduced to disappointment, and failure.
You've got some good points there. But remember that the demands that are placed on teachers, schools, and students nowadays are simply ridiculous. So what seemed like a mischevious child twenty years ago is now considered a disruptive student who needs to comply with the requirements so that the rest of the class can learn. There's a lot of paperwork that justify individualized instruction but the reality is that a child who is not allowing the teacher to teach will have to be removed from the classroom or will have to be tested for learning and behavioral problems. I have seen classes of 30 children steuggle because of one student who is out of hand. That's not fair either.
I often wondered about that too. too many many weak men in this country.
Thank you for telling the truth. Over the past 10-20 years I've noticed a feminine nature of men characterized by lack of ability to make decisions, ruled and pushed around by their women, and being EXTREMELY sensitive over-analyzing every word that comes from a woman's mouth. Sensitive and passive aggressive with their actions.
Being a man has nothing to do with violence. It has to do with your ability to lead your family, placing yourself in a position to provide for your family, spiritual leadership, loving and respecting the women of your household, being a lion in the form a teddy bear when appropriate.
In the presence of a "real man" a woman naturally takes a co-pilot role and has faith in her husband/boyfriend knowing he is operating in the best interest of his family. He is strong but loving and kind towards her. He steps up to handle business and secure everything for his woman. He seeks a woman of intelligence and virtue so he can discuss ideas and plan with her the future. He sacrifices for his family in order to further the mission of the family. He gives a woman a sense of security and the ability to lay in his arms knowing she is safe and loved.
Now some men stand around while women advise the restaurant how many people are in their party at the restaurant. Now some men are comfortable being used to fund a woman that bosses them around like their mother. It's ridiculous. I'm just saying.
Not happy at all with it. My guess are many men were raised by a single mom. Also in my day, we were taught at a young age to be responsible. We had chores and if we bad, their were consequences. Too much internet,television, one or both parents both working, and not growing up to be responsible for their actions or in=actions. And let's not forget our public school system, their not holding the kids to a higher standard!
Fear is innate and exonerates itself in every man, including yourself. Heck, even women have fears and also there some women that will intimidate the 'jibeezers' out of you. If you are tell me that its unacceptable for men to be weak in the USA then there is something definitely wrong with your question because:
1. Who in the blue hell are you to come over from one society to another and judge everyone.
2. Some weak men in this society fought bravely and courageously for our rights and freedoms to live peacefully and to accept immgrants to a land of opportunity.
3. Maybe you should try asking the next couple of guys at the bar on UFC night as to why men here in the USA present a weak and feminine side.
A BTW, many of our weak and feminine men would likely mess with any man who wrote an article on "How to Bake a Maringue Cake". Just the strong warriors though, so don't even worry about it.
I guess that in your mind a strong man is a wife beater and doesn't cook. I guess that a view that feminists hold. If you met a strong man, you would appreciate him.
LMAO! Nope, never met a strong man. Like I said, you couldn't survive a week in my house. My husband doesn't whine about men not being "warriors' because he has nothing to prove.
I'm not, nor have I ever been involved in the "feminist" movement. I don't need to be. The idea that I would need to fight to be equal to a man is laughable. I simply am. I don't need a blustery man leading me or being a warrior for me. I got this.
And yes, I think that any man who considers all woman as weak or gossipy probably does have some latent abusive tendencies. But you obviously would need to meet a strong woman to appreciate that. I'm sorry that all the women in your world seem to be such wastes. Maybe it's a problem with your "society".
I am, and have been involved in the "feminist movement." The problem with the "feminist movement" is that so many men have tried to derail it. They do so by attempting to humiliate men that more often that not, are intelligent human beings that have distanced themselves from their Neanderthal counterparts. I hope one day the Neanderthals will evolve into intelligent human beings, too, and not post 'silly' threads about feminine men. LMAO.
"They do so by attempting to humiliate men that more often that not, are intelligent human beings that have distanced themselves from their Neanderthal counterparts."
"I hope one day the Neanderthals will evolve into intelligent human beings, too..."
Sir…is it possible you’ve chewed off a bigger piece than you can bite?
In this country men, and women for that matter, are essentially taught to be greedy and materialistic and consumeristic. We are also taught from very young ages to think of the self and not of the greater good. Those who give in to those temptations are susceptible and vulnerable to all kinds of extraordinary weaknesses.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I believe that something is wrong with our society and whoever doesn't think so, is in denial.
I think you're right. Part of it has to do with the feminist movement, and perhaps the 60's attitude of rebelling against any and all authority. And part of it was fueled, I think, by those men who used their authority as leaders of households or as leaders of society to bully people. That gave men in general a bad name, so to speak. Then later of course the homosexual movement added fuel to the smoldering fires of controversy.
But I'm a woman, and you wanted mostly replies from men. I hope you get more, because it's a very relevant subject; good thread.
In the UK I have seen nothing to support the kind of claims you are making. Perhaps American men are a bit girly.
There's a fine between fearless and stupidity, watch your step.
American women have feminized their men. They demand that we have "feelings", that we talk about those "feelings" and even cry over them. They demand that we hold a conversation with them and even stay awake and gab after sex. If we don't conform she won't give up the Big S, so we put on the act while hiding the club in the garage but keep it ready for quick use as necessary. She just doesn't know we still have it.
I mean, think about it! Women have now demanded shoes, the pill and to come out of the kitchen. They are emasculating their men in every way possible.
Besides, women are becoming body builders and can be quite intimidating. Makes me cry and run away, anyway.
Never should have let them wimmins read books. That's what done it. They got all uppity from there.
We know you all still have your clubs. We let you keep them as phallic symbols to replace the appendages we have removed from you.
I can't tell how much of this is tongue-in-cheek, coming from you!
I was married to a man who analyzed his feelings in depth. Ad nauseum. It's the most boring thing imaginable.
Ladies, you don't want to have to listen to that. I promise you. You'll get someone who fights like a woman when they are angry. Who berates you. Who takes hours, sometimes a whole day to shut up about your imperfections. Got the picture?
My own father was certainly capable of getting annoyed, and saying something cold and cutting to me, but his statements were usually a couple of sentences. That was it. Less talk, no harangues. It was so easy growing up around him, even with his many imperfections.
I wish my ex had spent MORE time on the golf course than he did. He was a pretty good golfer, and he could have worked off more of his frustrations that way.
I call it the feminization of men that has occured over the past 5-10 years. Men who overanalyze every word, are extremely sensitive, and get upset as if they have PMS. Some men even seem to play mental games which might typically be played by women and I find myself shaking my head. It does exist.
I think most of this softness in men comes from insecurity.
Simple example. Years ago men might meet you, talk to you a few times over the phone, and then set up a date;time, restaurant, and what day to pick you up. Now, you find more men leaving it up to women to tell them where they want to meet them for dinner -what time- and what restaurant. What happened to settling on a day to meet and he picks you up. The gentleman has already made reservations and chosen the perfect restaurant with a nice atmosphere.
It feels good to only have to get ready and then be impressed with the restaurant choice and food. No planning required.
Great point, thank you. I believe that there is some kind of twisted undertending in this country about gender differences, and what the man supposed to be about. As a result, the corporate America is taking an advantage of it, by heavily marketing a woman in the commercials as strong specie that makes all the desicions. Women think that this is the fact and raise boys that are “conditioned” to be weak. Another big enemy of this country that will probably bring it down eventually (As it is happening in the poor countries right now) is disregard of marriage institution that was sanctified by the maker, and the acceptance of a “single mother” as a norm. Boys grow up without the father figure, thinking that their father and man in general are irresponsible and bad, when in fact; their mother was as guilty, if not more! I am a modern man. I don’t mind about woman going out and having fun, as men do, but for God’s sake, think about consequences and protect you! Why would you want to carry some stranger’s child anyway, is beyond me.
If many people think that what I had said is wrong, it simply means to me that we have gone too far down the spiral road.
I've heard this phenomenon being called the "Vaginization of America," and I cannot find a more appropriate term for it. Men are becoming less and less the leaders that they were once called to be, turning softer, more sensitive, less brave, and less thoughtful. Now I'm not sure about this, but I think it has something to do with the increased power given to women. Surprisingly, I think we are seeing the beginning of a slight shift in gender roles? Women who are more driven, domineering, powerful, and men who are...well, you get the idea. It seems to be having an adverse effect on the temperaments of the men surrounding them.
Yeah yeah, equal rights and all that, whatever... I'm just stating what I have observed. Come at me, feminists.
You would have to do some pretty big convincing to explain to me how being a strong woman somehow detracts from my husband's manliness. I'm not sure how me pretending to not be his equal would somehow make him better.
Society has not given me any particular "role" that I am aware of. Nor do I think it has given any other woman or man a role. We are born with whatever talents and personality that we possess and act accordingly. If a man personally feels he is not "manly" enough then that is... indeed... his problem.
If men feel that other men are not "manly" enough then that, likewise, is likely a reflection on their own feelings of masculinity and definition of what a "man" should be. Most likely they are feeling repressed by not being as "powerful" as a gender as they would like to be. While I feel bad about their inferiority complex I'll not be reducing myself to their standards to make them feel better about their own insecurities.
Based on some of your replies to this topic, I have a general idea of what you consider manliness to be, and this understandably offends you. Firstly, I do not understand why you feel that in order for a man to be a man this somehow first requires a women to be subservient and thoughtlessly doting. Secondly, I have no problem with strong women, but I think it is laughable and unfortunate how females feel they can somehow surpass a man (why do they feel insecure enough to think that men surpass them in the first place?) by scorning chivalry, proclaiming their glorious freedom from men's expectations, and being loudly opposed to all things that could be perceived as a threat to their pedestal in society (such as certain topics on HubPages).
Women are given equality, yet things are still not equal, I will admit... After all, men still go out of their way to open doors for ladies, or hold their seats out for them, or procure flowers during the first date, or pick a gal up at her place rather than the other way around. How absolutely unacceptable for these old-fashioned etiquettes to still take place in this day and age! The appalling nature of these absolutely derogatory activities drive me silly with rage! How dare a man assume a woman is too inferior to open her own door?
In all seriousness though... With many gals these days claiming to be strong, independent woman who don't need men and their slovenly, chauvinistic ways, I find it no mystery at all why men have subsequently backed down from many of the more typical leadership roles in both relationships and everyday life. Why bother, when women will just complain that they could do it better, making sure to poke jabs at the joke that is called "masculinity." Silly men, they think they are better than women - well, we'll just show them won't we?
Again, there is no problem with women who know what they want in life, and it should be encouraged for girls to understand that they are not slaves to men under any circumstances... But there is a point where excessive empowerment for one gender can become belittlement for another, and I strongly feel that this is what is happening in America today.
I come from the belief that anyone who is selfless, and brave regardless of sex or gender can be a strong leader. Being of the male or female species doesn't make you automatically smarter or braver. Being a leader isn't all about bronze, but more so about wit.
Men come in many shades of masculinity.
At the extreme end of the scale are the Alpha males, not a shred of a feminine trait in them. They may hold traditional male jobs such as a soldier in the army, a builder, a farmer or high level and ambitious business man. They may be competative, sporty and out door types.
Then in the middle is the average man. He probably works in an office and isn't as rugged as the Alpha male.
At the other end of the scale is the man who is more in touch with his feminine side. One of my male friends falls into this camp and calls himeself a "Metrosexual man". He lives in the city, is cosmopolitan, enjoys fine dining, good conversation, buys grooming products such as moisturisers and enjoys fashion. He isn't gay, he is married and has lots of female friends. He is caring and sensitive.
This whole thread should be doused in gasoline and lit on fire.
LOL, no it should live. I love seeing other peoples points of view. This also lets you know who to talk to, and who not to talk to. Sometimes posts like this are funny as hell !
I live in Miami and funniest thing is when I see "men" with small dogs. That what happens when boys grow up without male role model. Our future is bleak because of loss of marriage institution. In the third world countries it has been always the case.
I've heard this argument before -- about a man and his dog. I'm familiar with the point of view, but I don't agree.
I suppose the proponents of men having big dogs as companions is based on an assumption that they should be with a dog they can hunt with -- you know, a golden retriever, labrador retriever, Irish setter, bird dog, etc. etc. Or that they need to be with a large "protective" dog -- German Shepherd, rottweiler, etc.
I listened to a guy that hunts birds quite frequently talk about his standard poodle. He says they are the equal of any lab or golden retriever, and they are easy to train. After all, they are smart, and they were bred as water dogs and retrievers. But he gets comments and casual insults from people because a standard poodle is thought to be a "frou frou" dog, even though it is large.
Oh, good grief.
I see anyone with a small dog as a person who made a choice. The small dog fit their needs at the time, or their family's needs. It was a matter of time or money. Ultimately, it was probably a pragmatic choice.
If a man wants a large, high-energy, protective dog, go for it. But be prepared to train it well, and spend lots of time with it.
gracenotes, poodle lover
Oh LORD! PLease stop embarrassing us Miamians!
You really need to listen to yourself, because half of the things you're saying make you sound a little doorknobbish.
The size of your dog has nothing to do with the manner of your masculinity. If a man is comfortable in his own skin, he will enjoy the company of whatever damn animal he pleases
Well, you know... some men are all about measuring each other's frankfurter.
This guy is really a pistol isn't he? Small dogs= effeminate and large dogs=masculinity? Why would one man want to look at another man's dog?
I love men with dogs of all sizes. Sometimes bigS dog are lazy and don't want to get up and do anything while some small dogs are really frisky and very much active.
I was raised without a male role model and I only like medium to large sized dogs, so I'd say that theory is toast.
and how did your upbringing affect your ability to see straight? (your picture?)
Well, let's see:
I've always been a feminist and a pacifist
I'm afraid of mice
I've always had mostly females as friends
I've always sensed a lot of hostility coming from other men
Yes, well, I could've put myself upside down but I felt more sideways so . . . there ya go.
I'm not familiar with that type of bee... But I am VERY HAPPY!!!
What was the topic, originally? Oh yeah, men are weak. That's not true, it's just that women are very powerful and some of them are even waking up and realizing it.
Are you referring to my buddy Klara? lol
Don't worry, she's all growl..
Known a few...Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Haitians....even a couple of Cubans. Scorchin'!
Nothing scorchin' about me, Druid. But I'm very handy with that frying pan.
Our society started a move decades ago to boost the esteem of women but..at the expense of men. The assertive masculine traits were portrayed as negative however the more aggressive women were appluaded as a positive. Boys were taught not to play with toy guns because it cause aggressive behavior but girls were put in karate classes and more and more sports. Men and boys are portrayed in Tv shows and commercials as weak or pathetic and women as strong and in control. So basically men are told to be passive and thats being a "gentlemen" and to yield to women that compete--not to complain or your labeled a sexist. men then become intimidated. Doubt me, watch a week of commercials,sit coms and children shows. Look at how men are punished for acts of violence and then see how women recieve lighter punishment for the same crime. all this tends to...demasculate a man. Go along to get along.
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