Yes, I know, I've written many spiritual/religious hubs both bible and catholic but I want to get to this. I'm trying to understand better the real truth.
Why pray to Mary? Why people say you have to? Why my mother keep trying to make me to? pressure me to? Why people say the devil is more afraid of mary than God himself because "Mary overcame the devil by her mere humanness and that makes him more motified since she's human?"
First of all, mary did not overcome the devil! God allowed or rather used mary as a tool to overcome the devil---basically to overcome sin by using Mary as a vessel to carry Jesus.
mary cannot do anything of her own, she is human and I don't have bible verses memorized but she worships God like everyone else.
This seems to be the deceit of the catholic church. To have "shrines to mary" as people have told me, in their homes. This MUST be getting in the way of a (Personal Relationship With Christ) Is it not?
I find saying 50 hailmary's very repetitive (rosary) and when praying with other women hypnotic and weird. Strange really. I said one decade earlier and stopped then read the bible.
I think God is showing me the bible. I never had anything good happen when i was Catholic so far as healing. But when i got (saved) my health greatly improved and things are hard but easier in some ways.
I'm stronger than I ever was in all ways- mentally emotionally etc
Why the pressure to pray to a woman? mary? If we read the bible honestly, and that's something i was never encouraged to do in catholic church, it says over and over "By faith are ye saved, not by works lest any man should boast."
Well, I'm more than sure that non believers will have their tasty attack and tear this apart like wolves but that's okay. They have to show how they feel....especially many who get scared on their deathbeds and worry about hell (then). But this question is to the CHRISTIANS really. Atheists, or others don't waste your time, or do waste it, whatever.
Thank you for your feedback!!! )
schoolgirlforreal, you are on the right track, and praying to anyone other than God, through Christ under the leading of the Holy Spirit is not only a waste of time, but possibly 'invoking' unholy spirits.
The enemy seeded the RCC long ago with falsehoods, which many still follow and accept, you have seen the truth of scripture and have been set free, because the truth WILL set you free!
I have nothing against Catholics, former Catholics and suchlike, they are at best set free to have that relationship with Christ, and at worse deceived into following false idols and saints.
We are ALL saints according to scripture! - dead saints are just dead saints!
Scripture tells us that Mary was to be revered because she was Christ's mother, and I can hold her memory with respect, but like all other flesh, she died, and will not be resurrected until all others in Christ are.
She can have no special powers, because like all deceased flesh, she sleeps until the resurrection.
So if Mary is dead, and powerless, think about who else they could be calling on to 'intercede' in their spiritual life?
Christ is the ONLY intercessor we need or are supposed to pray to,
I think it is pointless to ask why someone would pray to a certain entity and not others. If their belief system prescribes it, then that is what they do.
You say Catholics should not pray to Mary but only to Jesus or God. A Jewish person would say that you should not be praying to Jesus either. And an atheist would ask why you are praying to anything at all.
May FSM be with you.
thank you , what is fsm? I don't mind your post.
You have correctly identified the problem, and the solution, we ALL need to decide who to put our faith in, if that's the Flying Spaghetti Monster for you, so be it, hope it's the right decision!
May your meatballs never get burnt!
Finally, a visual of the FSM. Now I can picture him when I'm praying.
Can Obama's mother/father sign an official document for him?
If the world were perfect, we'd all follow the path that works for our needs and not attempt to tear down the paths that work for the needs of others.
In an imperfect world, I guess once you come up with a policy to pray to a guy who was half man/half god it is only a natural progression to eventually semi deify other people.
All man and all God, I know that's hard for folk to grasp, but it's the way it is.
The errors that crept into things were deliberately injected by the enemy to dilute the message and confuse people, then they just grew and grew like topsy...
However Christ and the Holy Spirit have always been there and held in faith by the remnant, even though Churchianity has been attempting to suppress the truth since it was first expounded.
Perfect example of the opposite of my first paragraph. Like I said, if the world were perfect.
@agua in name of christ or joseph smith doesnot matter...other than YAHWEH all is blasphemy....
If one were Jewish, I would agree, but as a new covenant Christian, I disagree.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
1 Corinthians 15:24-25
King James Version (KJV)
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
@agua doesnt matter what new testament says...quran says worship allah , would u do that?...it is YAHWEH ...rest is blasphemy....
It is a strange logic that goes with Old testament but cocks a snook at the New testament
@third whats so strange about it...when god himself said worshipping anyone else than HIM is blasphemy , its period...Jesus or joseph smith or muhammad doesnot mean anything...YAHWEH is only to be worshipped...
The point is the same here. You can pray only to YHWH but , ONLY through Jesus.
@third nope...YHWH can be worshipped directly...jesus is not needed and was never needed...there are 100s of jesus like people elevated to such levels in history by their followers...not required...YHWH is only god to be worshipped...rest is delusion...
It must console you greatly to know that you will be alone in eternity with your god.
@agua so be it...truth is truth...alone or with mob doesnot matter...it is better to live for truth than believe in something which is blasphemy
God chose Jesus to be his rep here. You are stuck with Jesus whether you like it or not! It is like using proper channel in any organization
Your describing the predicament Martin Luther described 600 years ago. He , unlike the general population in Europe, could read, and as he read the Bible, he realized that what the Catholic church had been telling people was not actually found in the Bible. For instance, penance- paying the church money after your loved ones had died so that they could get to Heaven and out of Pergatory..., and being saved by faith, not works, through a personal relationship with Christ- being at the center of everything the New testament said- The general population didn't know these things because the Bibles were printed in Latin and most couldn't read anyway, so many of the Catholic traditions and rituals came from these old, superstitious ways. I have many friends who are Catholic and have known many with a personal faith, so I'm not trying to bash Catholics, but I think that you are truly doing some good studying and thinking about what the Word truly says, and that can only come from Christ. So keep it up, keep praying and reading and you will continue to have understanding through your faith.
Why pray to Mary?
No different than praying to a saint for intercession.
Saints are paid honor in the Catholic Church. Mary is paid HIGH honor as the mother of God Incarnate.
The words of the Hail Mary are taken directly from Scripture, so praying to her is not ANTI-Bible. See Luke 1:41-44.
Lastly, praying to Mary is not a condition of being Catholic. It's a voluntary thing. Do it or don't, but it makes neither you nor anyone else less "Christian" to do so.
Your last paragraph was a very good point. I think that's a well rounded statement.
It is not Biblical to pray to any saints. Great apostles like Peter and Paul asked the people not to pray or worship them but to pray to God in the name of Jesus.
Catholics even today making saints and asking their people to pray to these saints. Catholic church recently declared that Mother Teresa is a saint and you may pray to her. These activities of making saints is not Biblical but (a the trick of Devil) a way to divert the attention of people from the original God and his Son Jesus Christ Crucified.
So I think praying to Mary must be avoided as salvation is offered through Jesus Christ only.
Jesus said: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."(John 17:3)
I think the issue is the word pray. Asking a friend on earth to pray for you is acceptable. Why would it be any less acceptable to ask a saint in heaven to pray for you as they stand in God's presence? We can argue the point all day, but you are incorrect. Please refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and its Scriptural references for a proper understanding of the teaching.
Maybe because all of those 'dead in Christ' are sleeping until the resurrection?
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
King James Version (KJV)
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
...and that includes Mary.
Then it's a difference in interpretation.
The Catholic Church teaches of the saints being alive in Heaven. Most mainline Christian denominations do from what I understand. I find that to mean it is completely acceptable to pray to those holy men and women who have gone before us.
What about 2 Corinthians 5:8 and Luke 23:43? One talks about being absent from the body and present with the Lord. The other tells us of Jesus Himself telling the good thief that 'today you will be with me in paradise.'
Jesus is not dead. Mary is not dead. The saints are not dead. They live in Heaven.
Well we can agree to differ on this one without any problems, you think to pray to dead saints, I prefer to go directly to God and Christ.
I was told once that the best way to get a response from a man (God or Jesus) was through his mother!
It was wrong advice, nice homily, but wrong.
right...I heard the same thing....
If you want to know something, ask the source right?
i don't think that. We should all pray to God first. Put him in the first place. It's important to say that you must not worship angles, mary, saints, whatever. Whatever ', let's say, miracles they've done is because of God, is the energy. I don't think mary is looking to our world, i mean, she was a women of faith, daughter of God, spread the word, the faith here. but that happen when she was alive. She cannot be a intermediate between you and God, even if the intention is good. Mary is not the fuel, the energy, she was it, she was God's warrior when she was alive. That's it. I mean... I think this Mary they invented drives people into religion. God isn't religion, that's why many people don't have they life changed because of religion. God is rational faith.
When I said (I was agreeing with aquasilver) go to the source, I meant that we should go directly to God- our source. We shouldn't go to mary to get to God if God is the Source.
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