Many christians claim that bible taught moral values to the world and paved way for civilized world...Do you agree to it or disagree ?
The Hindus are still not barbarians.
The bible did teach some moral values, like crusades, witch hunts, burning at stake and so on...
The wars they caused paved the way for our "civilized" world.
The bible is a moral compass, but not the only one. I have read scriptures from other religions, and studied Native American religions. It seems that there are many sources of moral standards. It is interesting that they seem to have a common thread, and do not vary much on what is right and appropriate behavior. Zoroaster had great influence on the Persians, who restored much of what the Babylonians had messed up and returned captive people to their homes lands, like the Hebrews. I have never read anything by him, but understand that his teachings parallel those of Solomon, and Confucius. I can't really say for sure, but I lean that way
You will never find anyone more grateful to be a Christian. I was a dead man walking, and now I am full of life. My dead cold heart is full of love. I have proven many times that I am still in need of help, but if I am not too stubborn, I get it.
The Bible has the "Ten Commandments". I don't think anyone would object if everyone followed them. What sets the Bible apart, though, is that it points to Jesus Christ as the messiah (champion, rescuer). It says he is the only way. Well, he is not here in the flesh, so I would say it is the power of agape love that he is talking about. The Bible says that God is love. If we walk in love, we walk in Christ.
I am glad you invited me to speak. I love you. It has been a blessing to share.
Morality has always been a component of every religion throughout time, so, if I have to answer the question in the massively over-simplified form it has there, then the only accurate answer must be "No, it did not."
However, the bible was the first major religion to be put in codex form, which made it a more useful conversion tool for carrying about and preaching than scrolls or even songs which were the forms used for thousands of years prior. Scrolls were clumsy to quote from and songs were very, very long (if one had the discipline to learn all the relevant ones) and, obviously, subject to memory and all its failings. So, while there is a historically relevant argument for biblical morality (interpretation thereof entirely aside), I think it would be more accurate to ask: did the codex spread Christianity and its versions of morality throughout the word?
To that I would say yes.
I don't think that follows, as there were already religions all over the word--and so already morality.
I get it. There were religions, yes, and with their moral teachings. But the bible (not Christianity, the written bible) made it possible to easily spread the teachings and morality.
Very often morality we have thankfully outgrown, but morality nevertheless.
I addressed this in the FIRST sentence of my comment.
You're drastically wrong. Not to mention the other attributes.
So if some guy rapes my daughter, the Bible will give me an idea on how much the jerk should give me as compensation and for my blessing to marry her. Also the Bible gives me a time limit on how long ,my son or daughter can be used as slaves (son - 7 years, daughter - infinite). Yeah real morals there! The Bible makes a better fire starter than a morality guide!
I think he's trying to point out that there is a lot of very backward Bronze Age stuff in the old religious texts. Brushing off criticism as if it didn't exist isn't the way of wisdom either.
@cing wisdom demands seeing those aspects too which paul mentioned about....
The old testament is the history of a people, something we can learn from, but christians are not bound by the letter of those laws. Christian means a follower of Christ. We are to follow His example. He redefined and even expanded many of those laws, as well as giving us new laws. That is why He was hated and rejected by many of his own people. The law is not what makes a person moral or good...those aspects of our humanity comes from the heart. The law was never meant to make people good, but to require self control and protect...just as they are today. Those were different times and like I said there are lessons to be learned from history.
@ana i got that but what are your views on original question?
Sorry. I guess I got off track. I think that the Bible contributed to the development of moral values of society as a whole, and certainly individually. Did the Bible "pave the way for the civilized world.?" Again it contributed in many ways. I cannot say tha it is wholly responsible for the progression of civilization. Nothing is that simple. The old testament is not a great example of civilized people, but where would they have ended up with out the teaching of the prophets and the laws.? I am going to have to say that I agree.
"where would they have ended up with out the teaching of the prophets and the laws.?"
Some possible answers might be in a similar moral situation as the indigenous peoples of the western hemisphere, or of the far eastern peoples, or those native to Australia.
All had a moral code when they encountered the code of the spiritual descendents of the prophets and laws of the old testament. Different, yes, but considering the actions of both when the two codes interacted, I cannot say either one was actually superior or even closer to what we accept today.
Is the biggest success of the bible then the ability to wage war rather than the spread of morality?
My answer is no. The Bible is not able to wage war. Only reasoning entities can wage war or spread morality. I would have said man, but perhaps far into the future it might be possible for a machine to wage war and dictate a code of morality Not a comforting thought. But throughout history and today, man makes choices using whatever justification suits his purpose. I cannot seem to find a simple yes or no answer to this question.
Like the Crusades, Inquisitions and witch burnings, that kind of "civilized world" that was indeed paved by the BIble? And today, with contraception and abortions and the denouncing of science, that kind of "civilized world"?
It seems to me as if moral is more and more, a relative term. What is "right" in my eyes; is an absolute no for others. The bible speaks of this very thing. The "moral" according to the bible is that I don't cause my brother to commit acts that he considers sinful; in areas of grayness. However, I honestly believe that if your heart (soul) is right; you will pass (for right) even when you are obliviously wrong.
God deals with us according to our own faith. He reads our innermost areas.
Then, we can conclude that what is "right" in your eyes is not what you've considered, but instead what the Bible has told you to consider. The problem with that is the Bible doesn't explain why you shouldn't cause your brother to commit those acts, it just commands you to do so.
That is the difference in scriptural commands vs. reasoning. We can reason without being told why it is moral to not cause others to commit those acts. As a result of that, we need not make the same mistakes as you would by blindly following commands without knowing why.
What does he read of the innermost areas in the tens of thousands who starve to death every day? A morsel of food to survive another day, perhaps?
Hi Sweetheart I am starting to get the impression that I am of interest to you. Lol
This conversation that we have about the starving children ALWAYS goes bad. I tell you that we have more than enough resources from God to sustain us all. But, our brothers are evil and greedy/against God, and they are free to do their business of deciding who eats and who does not. God is watching. Those children die and go to him. They are much safer than an adult who has decided to tell him no. He is much safer than an adult who withheld his portion. Please don't worry about the children. They are battered here but blessed are the pure in heart... Look it up, that one is priceless
The bible DOES explain why we should not do those things ON MANY PAGES. Some blot those sentences. It is their right.
It is reason alone that gets us into trouble. Most of us don't reason the same. Can't you tell??? Reason can become toxic to what is correct. Reason makes some to kill over sneakers. Reason makes one to kill in the name of Allah; I mean God. There are so many areas where reason does not work! Take your children for example, some people throw away entire warm, nutritious, fresh, and/or filling meals right into trash bins. Then walk right past a starving person on the street. Stand to reason???
Yes, but we've already established that is nonsense because it is only valid in a very small percentage.
What an absolutely horrible thing to say. Disgusting and sickening.
Reason would have red flags go up in your brain telling you that what you are saying is highly immoral and lacks one iota of compassion and understanding.
@genaea evil brothers are not accountable to dying children...god is accountable and if god wanted children back why the hell send them to earth'?....thats weak excuse...god is lousy administrator and would have been fired for his inefficiency ...he is lucky that he doesnot live in earth ...
God put those children here with purpose. It is not his fault that we failed them. He did not call them back, where did you get that from? We sent them to him, uncared for. He accepted them back. Most of them stood no chance in our clutches. But God is gracious. He avenges their deaths. He gives them a special place. He makes it right. God is not our errand boy. He expects us to do right with what he gave us. When we don't HE says what's next. You can try "firing" God. Start a petition. You will have many signatures, but you may have a hard time locating your enforcer.
@genaea try firing?..he is already fired long back...in christian world since it started 400 yrs back while in other parts it has been long back...u r missing the point..if some idiots fail to do that job , buck finally stops at god...as chief of universe in end he is responsible ...he has to be blamed like u r blaming fellow humans....in end a chief running away for his own responsibility or blaming his subordinates is not good enough...it is better not to worship such lousy administrator and find our own way...and m glad we have people who dont wait for god to do something and they themselves do it...anyways since it is ur belief , i dont want to argue on that...u can have ur beliefs...
Excuse me? What do we have to do with anything? If God puts them here with purpose, He should make sure they stay alive for a while to fulfill that purpose. If you continuously invoke God into the scenario, then you can't people.
Disgusting. It's stunning how cold and heartless believers become when they place their God above all else.
Funny. You judge by your standards??? We actually put them here with "our" loins-a-burnin'. No thought of the life created, nor lack of food. God is responsible for our creation; our actions are our business. Blame him til you are blue. People will still eat til satisfied, throw away good food, and pass starving children in the streets. God provides for us all. When was the last time YOU saw a starving child die? Surely, from your posts, you have personal knowledge of many. I know you are not this convinced by word of someone else's mouth.
They're called 'morals'
Then, God is responsible for those He placed here who are unable to act, or eat.
Absolutely despicable question, have you no shame?
Obviously, there are no children who die of starvation. Sorry, to have troubled you with such trivial matters. Please go back to your Bible, nothing to see here.
I disagree. the Pentateuch... or old testament was given to the Jewish people as a standard. As many have pointed out- there were civilizations before Old Testament times, and during old testatment times, the standard given to the Jewish people just spread.....and was adopted by those who wanted to adopt it because they believed it was right... post Dark Ages, many advances in civiilization were made by Christians... i.e. Gutenburg and his printing press....
Look at the 10 Commandments what are they telling us to do?
"'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
It has been my experience that mankind normally don't think that way as pointed out by Leviticus.
I really don't like to partiscipate in religious discussions because it is such a many faceted jewel, and no one is able to see all the facets clearly, without some distortion. Yes - the Bible was instrumental in forming moral standards and helping to civilize the world - if you want to consider the world civilized. I'm personally not entirely convienced that it is. It seems that the world grows and declines, then grows and declines again in it's moral standards - changing what is morally acceptable and what is permissable; but the basic ideas...beliefs...thoughts and feelings of what is right or wrong...what is civilized behavior and what is just plain barbaric is still the core of the ten commandments. At the end of the day though every one chooses for himself what he believes and what will dictate his behavior. The funny thing is that every one will choose God...The Christian God. The Allah God. The Celebrity God. The Alien God. The Science God. The I God...Every one wants a God that fits into their own little box, so any discussion, unless it is with someone who totally agrees with your God, is no more than an excerise in the possibility of understanding each other. Jesus knew the truth of human nature and our inclination to raise ourselves to some superior standing because of our religions, or lack thereof. Jesus tried to teach the people this when he said, "...Evil words come from an evil heart...For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultry, fornication, theft, lying, and slander." We - humans - choose our own code of morality out of our on hearts. And that in turn determines the extint of the worlds moral conduct and the level of civiliaztion as we know it, I'd say we have been on the decline for awhile. Just my opinion.. Big believer in taking responsibility for the consquiences of my own decisions, as I try to learn from my mistakes and make better decisions in the future.
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