Christians, let's have a discussion of the 144000 sealed by God with His name. Who do you think they will be? How do you think God chooses them?
The bible specifically says they were All Hebrews. .. 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel.
i don't understand how THAT ever got interpreted away ???
How do you think he chooses them? Do you think He chooses them by their devotion to Christ? By thier virtues?
What do you think?
The only thing that I speak of when on a religion topic concerns those things which I read in the bible.
I believe that these 144000 (though a number is not mentioned) are addressed in Daniel 12:1 & 2.
Children of Daniels people. Daniel and his people were Hebrews.
When the 14th Emperor of the Roman Empire dies ... At THAT time Michael stands up for the children of Daniels people and Some are redeemed from the living and some rise from the grave.
This happened at the same time as "THAT" Hebrew Nation ceased to exist. At the end of days for "THAT" Hebrew Nation. This is not described as being the same event as the first resurrection, or the second.
The great multitude being seen in heaven (Rev. 7:9 ) also has nothing to do with the first resurrection described in Rev. 20.
These mentioned in Rev. 7 are describing this event as happening during the opening of the seven seals. And when the 7th seal is opened a period of time passes before the 7 trumpets are handed out.
I could go on and on and on explaining how all of the events in the Book of revelation happen sequentially in chronological order (for the most part) but this is enough to digest in one sitting.
Michael is thought by many to be a forshadowing of Jesus Christ. Looking at the way the puzzle pieces fit I lean toward such a notion myself. Just a note.
Yes I have heard that said also; and anytime that I bring that up in conversation, that is the way I express it also.
The point that I get out of this is that it would have happened according to the entire book of Daniel would have been in 138 AD.
In Chapter 7 and 8 and 11 the first four kingdoms; ... Babylon, Persia, Greece and the Roman empire are being described as Beasts.
The fourth beast is described as having ten horns each horn representing a king, and another king rises to power replacing three kings after the ten. In simpler terms, the little horn is the 14 king of the fourth kingdom. And when he comes to his end, ,,, Then , At That Time Michael (Christ) will stand up for the children of Daniels people.
The foutreenth king (Hadrian) died in 138 AD. At that time (Daniel 11:44 and 12:1) and for the next decade, every Hebrew found in the land of Israel were either killed, captured and scattered through out the rest of the Roman Empire.
I'm just saying what I get from reading the book of Daniel AND how it compares with the book of revelation.
At what better time of in history could so many people vanish and no one records it? happening ??? The power of the holy people were being scattered to the four winds.
Truth and honesty. So, it will probably be folks like Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett, etc.
According to Revelations Chapter 7, The 144,000 are 12,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel. Also there was a vast multitude of people of all nations in white (folks who were redeemed of a Gentile nature). Chapter 14 goes on to describe the 144,000 as those who have keep themselves pure from women (alludes to the 144,000 being all males).
So my assumption that Revelation is the only mention of them is on key from the looks of it? Because I've found no other passages alluding to it.
Agreed, Revelation is the only mention of it that I have found...With some fancy figuring, one might pull some passages from the Book of Daniel...But to me, that is stretching it abit.
I was told that I was chosen because they needed people with excellent critical skills!
I was under the impression that fools are chosen
You might be right on that point....
I paid $5,300.97 for my ticket and still have to pay for my own Fairy Wings!
I have an extra pair!....they won't let me in....so you can have 'em, k?
Oh wow... thanks for that... do you think they'll go with my Joe Dirt mullet hair style, without tangling?
And I because of excellent writing skills. Besides, I can fix the worn out electric outlets in Heaven - after all this time they have to be in poor condition.
Any Christians want to have a real discussion please?
Hey janesix. Found your post pretty quick. I've been rather busy, but trying to spare some time for the ol' hub.
Umm, well.. not doing any look-ups I'd say from the top of my head I recall they are all virgins (not defiled or somethin along those words) but I'm not sure of the meaning or implications of that aspect.
I've always been curious myself about it, but I think it's a Revelation only appearance and that book is very easily misunderstood.
I'll give it a look if I have time and maybe add a thought. For now my only guess is that they are positions filled by only certain people who are being rewarded for a certain trial they passed (tried by fire as the Bible says). Maybe they became eunichs by choice, or something even harder (for a man it's not easy to think of anything harder though, lol) for the sake of serving God better by making their life as Jesus' was... for God's cause only in serving and helping people in need ("the least of these").
It's not a 5th grade study subject, that's for certain.
Literal interpretation of the Bible isn't a mainstream Christian practice, so even if you do get Christians to discuss this with you, they probably won't be as "real" about it as you are. You asked for people's thoughts, and you're getting them.
Umm, just for the sake of wonder...
Why exactly should the Bible be interpreted literally if it isn't wrote in such a manner in all portions? The historical narrative of Genesis is wrote in a historical account format so it should be noted and read that way, in a literal sense. But then on the flip side of the coin we have passages such as follows:
"And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."
If one is to interpret that literally then we have some very odd imagery of a very screwed up animal.
And these may be my thoughts and opinions, but they are based on a desire for the truth and no one is required to read them.
As for that matter, every word wrote in the history of mankind, if not inspired by God, is merely a flawed opinion holding a portion of accuracy whether it be enough to understand the subject or it be completely in error.
I believe that "IF" people would/could understand the prophesy .... there would not be such a thing as demoninationality in the church.
Gotta get up in six hours drink coffee check in here then go to work so nighty night.
I am sure I don't understand it. Is it a metaphor or is it literal?
The imagry is symbolic. kinda the way you would interpret one of your dreams.
I helps to be familar with those visions where Gabriel interprets them such as in Daniels case. THESE need NOT be intyerpreted any further.
When we see the same type of imagry being explaned with an earlier interpretation we should use this analogy with the latter.
For instance; ... No one in heaven or on the earth is found who is worthy to take the book. And then SUDDENLY a bloody lamb is seen in the midst. And it immediately takes the book and begins opening the first five seals. To me, this means that immediately after the crucifixion, (around 30 AD) these seals are opened and the problems described begin. To look at history, they did.
When the 7th seal is opened nothing happens except that a period of time passes before the trumpets are handed out. This indicates a chronological order being established.
AND THEN John sees something happening, and Then something else happens, and Then something else and THEN etc.
Church teaches that all of these things are going to happen ALL within a very short period of time, NOT! Something happened And Then they didn't repent, and then something else happens AND Then etc.
To understand this isn't wisdom of scripture but the first step in the quest to understand why everything is the way that it is. (or was). as told in scripture.
They'll be selected because they are not men defiled by women, so priests do not have to apply unless they are only pedophiles or gays.
Ahh, the smell of useless drivel and bitterness in the morning.
That is either because you have not bathed or your room is a mess.
You really should spend more time on your insults. They aren't too awfully insulting.
I'm not convinced that Revelation should even be in the bible. Who was this John character? Nobody knows. Was it a real set of visions, or fanciful imagination? Nobody knows.
The fact that the four living creatures are borrowed from Babylonian astrology causes me to doubt its validity as "The Word of God". That is, the Lion headed one = Leo, the Ox headed one = Taurus, the Man headed one = Aquarius, the Eagle headed one = Scorpio (The Babylonians interpreted an Eagle in the constellation where we see a scorpion). These four constellations are at four 'corners' of the sky and four 'sides' of the zodiac.
So as to the original question, I think it was this John's imagination.
Good points, @Disappearinghead, but I disagree with it being purely John of Patmos's imagination.
The bulk of Revelation depends upon the rebirth of Israel and that happened in 1948.
The great star named Chernobyl ("wormwood" in Ukrainian) spilled its pestilence across 1/3 of the world in 1986, just as predicted by Revelation.
And the mark of the beast is slowly becoming a reality, just as the Rockefellers wanted it. The first individual volunteers were in 2001. NBC nightly news proclaimed that it would be common in 2017.
The governments have joined themselves to the beast -- Rockefellers and Rothschilds. Their eugenics and war programs might well be 2 of the 4 horsemen. If estimates are accurate, they need to kill off 6 billion people to reach their "optimum" population levels. From what's written in Revelation, it sounds as though they're going to lose control of their killing machine and it's going to wipe out all of humanity, except for a last-minute reprieve from on high.
I'm not convinced Lone77star as the bulk of Revelation can be adequately interpreted in the light of events contemporary with the time of writing. The trouble is few people today study the historical events of those times and because the Messiah is expected to return in a certain way, and that hasn't happened, the assumption becomes that Revelation writes of future events.
The Jews expected the Messiah to come as a conquering hero to vanquish the Romans and release them from suffering. When his arrival was something completely different, they never believed him. Similarly, Christians expect the Messiah to return as a conquering hero to vanquish some New World Order government and release them from suffering. Yet they will not entertain the notion that like the Jews, they might be barking up the wrong tree.
Here's a book I found rather interesting.
http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-The-Ha … 1936183625
I could be wrong ...... though I am convinced that you are correct. ..... barking up the wrong tree indeed.
Time will tell friend.
Good to see ya DH. I hope everything is well for you.
Good to see you too Vector and I hope you too are well. I've been away for a while, and it seems to have gone a bit quiet around forum land.
LOL. Revelations predicted a nuclear reactor would explode exactly in 1986?
My best guess on how God chooses the 144,000 is through their spiritual purity -- how awake they are spiritually and how well they remain humble, loving, responsible and confident in the spiritual.
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When God come How many people will be saved that are alive. the bible states only 144,000, that are alive will be save out the whole world. How many dead will be saved, the bible state a number that no man can number.
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