This is another religious topic, but unlike most that are posted. The basis of this thread is to gather the thoughts of atheists, evolutions or scientologists and christians can even chime in.
Most evolutionists believe that the world wasn't created by a God, but rather formed through many processes. The same goes for atheists and scientologists. My main wonder is what points of the Bible do you believe? Do we disregard certain parts or all of it. Even scientists have proven certain landmarks in the Bible and proved that certain events could have very well happened. A good educational show is The Naked Archaeologist or Decoding Exodus. I'm a firm believer on gathering facts from other sources than television, but these two shows provide a lot of evidence that certain events may have happened. So at what point do we disregard the Bible and why?
There are no "facts" concerning the bible.
No one alive today was there during those times.
One can only understand that "it" has been so corrupted by time and interpretation that one would have to be "nuts" to think any of it is credible.
It is a horrible faery tale.
I can understand your judgement on that, but I am guessing you are basing your theory on science. I have something that can flaw science myself. Many different, very intelligent doctors told my father that there was no way he could walk again. Yet he walked again and they could not scientifically explain why it was possible. Now this statement proves that any form of science can be flawed. Many things that have happened don't have tangible evidence. Let's suggest that dinosaurs are a hoax by scientists to make money for museums. Ha. To say that the Bible is hard to believe is just like saying space travel is hard to believe. What do you think 18th century people would have said if you told them we would travel to space. But wait, then again there is no proof that we have ever been to space.. Hmmm..
Theory? Where'd ya come up with that?
Pls tell me who's alive today that was back then?
...and science? How in the world did you come to that conclusion.
There's no science involved!
I'm thinking that you already have some preconceived ideas about this fictional work i.e. the bible and ya don't really want to accept "reality."
You've got to go back and study the history and evolution of your religious beliefs in ref to this book the bible.
Just go back about 3400 yrs to the days of the pharoahs and start there. Ya might have an epiphany along the way forward...whew....lol
Haha at qwark. So now it is a battle of who is right or wrong. Theory? How did you come up with that? Science? There's no science involved. If you care to elaborate on what you mean by those remarks I will be happy to reply.
Ya gotta stop inhaling "weed" Your short term memory is failing ya.
Here's your quote:
"I can understand your judgement on that, but I am guessing you are basing your theory on science."
See, ya mentioned both theory and science. whew!
My goodness man. Get your act together.
Now, begin some real study ref. your monotheistic beliefs.
One thing ya have to do for sure, is check the definition of "fiction" before ya get so wrapped up in myth and superstition.
If ya really like "fairy" tales, tell ya what, I've got a list of some really good stuff. Much better than the inanity found written in the "bible."
Start with "Grimm," and work your way up to "Harry Potter!"
These books are #1 on my list of "fiction." I believe the bible is last on this list...or did I remove it last year as being too unbelievable? Yeh I think I did!
That is the best post you have written. I now see who I am talking to. The peak of your intellect can only think of Children's books. Could we not think of other fiction?
Oh yeh I have a list of childrens books I can recommend.
Your taste is so bad tho, the bible? I think the good'ns would be too excitin' for ya.
Why don't ya begin with old Summeria and work yer way forward.
Your brain will appreciate the "input" and ya'll come out with a pretty good notion of the definition of the word "reality."
Hey I'm just trying to be helpful.
It's obvious to all of us ya need to open yer mind and study in other areas of concern. You've been frustrated by spending yer study time reading about myth and superstition.
Start with cosmology, work yer way up and thru anthropology, geology, physics, chemistry, biology, world history, philosophy on and on...it'll come to ya eventually. epiphanies are wonderful. I wish ya well with your studies....:-)
Oh, and loose the "weed" for a while.
Maybe I should just go to Sumeria, yeah that's how you spell it and I could even lose myself in your spelling mistakes, not loose. You are seriously trying to insult me with so many misspelled words?
Lolol...Sorry about the typos.
I had a college prof. whom I challenged about his spelling in class.
He said: " I have a secretary to correct my spelling. Why don't you try to understand the concept of what I'm offering and stop worrying about my spelling?"
I'm a lousy typist. I apologize.
Now lets get down to the "nitty-gritty."
The seeming "narrowness" of knowledge in your typed comments and the syntax of your messages, makes it obvious to me, that you you need a much broader education.
I'm not trying to insult. I'm just offering my thoughts in an effort to bring you up to "snuff" relative to "reality."
You most definitely haven't done your study in ref. to the history and evolution of your beliefs. That's why you are asking questions.
You must study...seriously study!
I wish ya luck.......:-)
And here I thought I was the only one who saw the irony in that post. LOL.
Hey, Qwark - I find it very telling that you removed the Bible from your list of 'fiction'. lol Because the Bible isn't fiction, it's historical data. True, it may be slanted, but what historical documents aren't?
Fenixfan, You are so correct. I have high regard for all parts of the bible. It is not right for anyone to pick and choose what part of the bible to believe. Every word is true.
"Every word is true," huh? According to the Bible, it is an abomination unto the Lord to eat pork, shellfish, rabbit, or any combination of meat and dairy products. Bye-bye cheeseburgers and hamburger pizza!
And dietary restrictions are just some of many laid out in the Bible that are followed by almost nobody but the most conservative Jews. Christians seem to use the New Convenant as an excuse to ignore Leviticus wholesale, but you can't have it both ways. Either every word is true or it isn't, and if you're ignoring Leviticus (except for the part about homosexuality, of course - how convenient that the only part of Leviticus you still consider valid is the part that inconveniences other people instead of yourself) than you're behaving as if every word of the Bible is NOT true. You accuse others of "picking and choosing" what parts of the Bible to believe in, but you do the same.
I will make myself clear. I believe that every word in the bible was inspired by God. Secondly, the old testament applied to the people that were living in those days. We are living in the New Testament, this is how we should live today. When I stated , it is not right for anyone to pick and choose what part of the bible to believe in , I was speaking of the New Testament which is for all of us today. Sorry I didn't mention in my post above.
I believe the word of God is what it is. Where it goes horribly wrong is when organised religion tells us what it means and how it must be interpreted.
The only way the church will be free is when the people start thinking for themselves.
What about the Jews...women o.c. ...do they follow the new testament too. or are they just not "people like us"?
I am not sure if the Jews follow the the New Testament.
None of the Jewish people I know follow the new testament.
Jews do not believe the Messiah has yet come, so they do not adhere to the New Testament. Strict Jews follow the eating laws laid out in the Old Testament. Strict Christians follow the laws of the New Testament. I have read the King James Version but only once. As I recall, there was no change in the eating laws. In fact, I believe Jesus' words were "I come not to change the law". Those with more study on the subject can quote chapter and verse.
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man> Matt 15:11
Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?>Matt 15:17
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, [it] cannot defile him;> mARK 7:18
For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")> MARK 7:19
But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
“For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”>Matt 11:30
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Galatians 5:1
But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the Mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; 9 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and I did not care for them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and I will write them upon their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more." 13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.>(Hebrews 8:6-13)
http://www.biblestudy.org/beginner/basi … nants.html
So if the Old Testament was relevant only to people who lived before Jesus, why do you believe in Creationism as outlined in Genesis? The New Testament speaks only of God as Creator, it doesn't say anything about how long the process took or how it was done, so God could very easily have set off the Big Bang (in the beginning there was the Word) ~13-14 billion years ago and set evolution on its merry way with His guidance. There's no reason to think it took seven days, or occurred only 6000 years ago.
Why do you consider homosexuality a sin? The Old Testament is the only part of the Bible that specifically forbids homosexuality as an "abomination to the Lord." The New Testament refers only vaguely to malakoi and arsenokoitai, two terms that are often translated as "male prostitute" and "sodomite," but refer more specifically to boys who are penetrated by older men and the men who do the penetrating - pedophilia, not homosexuality. The other NT passage commonly quoted as indicating the sinfulness of homosexuality, in Romans I, actually refers to homosexuality as punishment for the sin of idolatry, not as a sin itself. Jesus Himself said nothing about homosexuality... though He had some pretty harsh words for divorce.
It is written that those things that is a sin for one person is not necessarily sin for another?
Those things that just don't work in your life might be the only way that I can make my life work.
Just because mankind has agreed upon a definition of "SIN" so as to write it in a dictionary; does not necessarily mean that this is Gods understanding of that word when he used it.
"All sins are equal" should be our first clue that we may have an incorrect concept of this word.
kerry - I've often held to this theory as well, that the big bang could be the work of a creator.
couturepopcafe, I too believe that there was no doubt a HUGE big bang when the Creator spoke existence into being.
Here is another thought. God, is a title.. It is not necessarily His name. Now, with that said, if you have one of the old quarters around, and one of the state quarters, get them out and compare the two. That tells a story right there. Let me know what you find.
Tanya Levin, author of "People in Glass Houses" says if the OT was made into a movie, the only place in the world it would be allowed to be screened is Amsterdam. It's too violent to be shown anywhere else.
Yes, the OT in particular is a scary piece of literature - brains splattering on stones, foreskins being hacked off, sexual crimes, gruesome murders, animal cruelty.
Just as well people came up with a NT that allows people to cancel out the OT - easy to forget though the god of the bible is the same yesterday, today and forever
Baileybear, people, not God, did all those things.
The older I get the more and more I see that the God of the Bible is NOT the god that many follow.
The central message of God is love. When you see or hear of things like that take a step back and seperate yourself from the situation long enough to ask, is this love. And if it ain't, then it ain't of God.
People have tried and are still trying to make God, the Creator, out to be some sort of monster. He is not.
There are those that go out and do some pretty mean things, then go to church everytime the doors are open. That is not God's fault. Yet, He is the one who gets assualted. If that is what following God's way is then I don't want no part of it. is the attitude most would take. But, it ain't God's doing.
Shelia B., author of "My Life" says don't judge God by my actions, for I am human and capable of making mistakes.
God is the same yesterday today and forever. AND He is no respector of persons. He is love and He loves everybody. In His eyes, everyone is equal. We can't blame God for racisim, but my guess is, that some do. The crimes commited in the old testament, it wasn't God that did such things, yet He gets the blame.
People don't think that there is also another force that is just the opposite God and His goodness. It is Satan, and his destruction.
In my opinion, we all have eternal life. This ole body will turn back to dust. But it has a soul connected to it. And I believe with my entire heart, that there is a battle for our souls being fought every day, all day, between Gods anngels and Satans army. And when this ole body takes its last breath, its soul will go home.
As the tree falleth, so shall it lie.
Satan's job is to instill doubt and fear in all that he can.
What don't you understand ? I know you ain't saying I'm boring. hehe
I believe every word of the Bible is true, even the apparent contradictions are true.
In order to understand the apparent contradictions as truth, one must understand the English language, which replaced the original language of the Bible, wasn't as evolved as it is today, and is the reason why the Bible must be interpreted rather than read to mean exactly as it reads. In addition, the Bible must be accepted for what it is: An historical document, relating the history of the world as we know it, combined with an instruction manual detailing a way of life that can bring success and satisfaction to anyone who chooses to follow it.
When considering the dietary laws and the 'sin' of homosexuality (as well as any other 'disagreeable' portions of the Bible) I think of it this way:
God intended for these things to be sin, to prevent people from entering Heaven who would choose to go against his word, however, God, being an imperfect God, changed his mind upon realizing the restrictive nature of the dietary laws, (restrictions go against Free Will) and when he realized homosexuals weren't really going against the laws of nature. Homosexuals are capable of loving others, and loving others is what's important, not who loves who.
***I say God is an imperfect God, because if He were perfect, He wouldn't have gotten into a showdown with Lucifer, and created earth & people, in the first place.***Kinda nice to think, even God isn't perfect, huh?
um, no-one is going to challenge my idea of an imperfect God? I'm kinda surprised....
Well I didn't reply because I believe that myths are neither perfect nor imperfect, they are simply myths.
Might as well get these feet wet. Evening Earnest. Hope it is a pleasant one for you.
You are correct. Neither perfect or imperfect. Simply myths. That's what myths are. Just myths.
Hi mom101. Just on lunchtime Monday here. We like to keep ahead of the game here.
What's the weather like out there? It is so hot in this house I am about to bake. I think "my" thermostat is breaking.
Have ya noticed, I haven't been getting as involved with these discussions lately? I came to the conclusion it doesn't look good.
Everybody here seems to be pretty good folk. We all just get carried away a bit.
Are you planning a big Thanksgiving? Hope if you are, it turns out special.
Do they even celebrate Thanksgiving in Australia?
MM101 We don't celebrate thanksgiving in Australia as we are not Americans!
We do celebrate the heathen 25th though, and use it as an excuse to give little children things they want.
That's about what it boils down to.
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you or getitrite by wishing you a happy turkey day. It's just my nature ya see. American or not American, you are a person. With a sense of humor that I enjoy versing with. So, politically incorrect and all, hope its a good one for you.
earnest, you are excused.
(I seriously was expecting to be attacked from both sides)
Imperfect God you say? Nope. He's perfect.
I am guilty as sin when it comes to eating pork. That stuff is gooood. But, God gave those laws because He knew it's not good for us. Strict? Those were guidelines. He did not say that eating those things would keep you from Heaven or send you to hell. Merely just not good for us.
The Bible, it has been written and re-written many times over. There are so many translations it is unreal. The Bible, is at best someones idea or opinion. However, it is said to be God's Word, rightly divided. People have a tendancy to try to make scripture fit their way of life, rather than to try to make their life fit scripture.
Hello. Your previous post had me thinking you were new, but I see you've been around for a while.
This forum is discussing which parts of the Bible are to be considered as truth, and I see you feel the Bible is someone's idea, or opinion, which is equal to saying it's all truth since ideas and opinions can't be untrue.
The Bible may not say God made eating pork a sin, but why else would the dietary laws be there? I don't remember the dietary laws stating anything about those foods being unhealthy, just 'thou shalt not eat' which would be equivalent to 'thou shalt not kill' which is one of the 10 Commandments. I honestly believe the dietary laws were originally meant to determine who would follow God's law, and who would, or would not, go to Heaven.
(the dietary laws were before the 10 Commandments, weren't they? so, I consider them to be setting a precedence for when God created a new law of the land...much as the laws, & court systems, of today work)
Let me back up. The Bible, is Gods Word, rightly divided.
A lot of it is written in parables. Very little of it is straight forward talking or instruction.
I can just about promise you that eating pork will keep you from entering Heaven. A little further in Lev, you will find where God says if we are visiting someone and we eat with them, we are not to offend them by not eating what they prepared, even if it is pork.
Somewhere on this forum, someone posted something about Christ coming to fulfill the law. That was His purpose for being here. God saw that (in the old testament time) people could not keep all the laws that had been written. Everytime they turned around, new laws were being issued. God, saw they could not keep them, and He provided a way for the people. That Way was Christ. He came not as the law, but to fulfill it. When He died it is said that with Him those laws also died. When He arose, the only command God gave us was the Golden Commandment. The 10 Commandments, they are very useful and very full of common sense and following them is just a good way to do things.
The dietary laws, I am in no means a vegeterain, but my health would be greatly improved if I were. We have been told for years of the problems caused by eating animal fats.
My papah was a man of very few words. When he talked, he didn't e x p l a i n in detail everything he was saying, but you knew what he meant.
The rightly divided part, that is the tricky part.
it sounds like we're in agreement, although, for differing reasons, perhaps?
what, exactly, do you mean by the rightly divided part?
Rightly divided. The Bible, from my understanding, is written mostly in parables. We (the reader) can't take one sentence out and draw a conclusion or meaning. That one sentence, is part of a story. In order to form a sensible meaning from any story we have to read the entire story. When we take just one sentence, we are taking that out of context and that makes the story (parable) of no meaning or a different meaning altogether.
There is one denomination that has re-written the Bible for their congregation. The "little changes" they have made are very minor, yet when applied to teaching, have a major difference in the meaning of the original . This is true with all translations. And it is dangerous.
I have read many post on here and elsewhere about all the differnet translations. Some are far fetched.
Ya know, the term seperation of church and state is so wrong. In order for a church to receive a tax exempt status it has to do what? Now, in applying for that status, they have to develop a set of by-laws. These are the ones I call man-made, and are most often way differnt than the ones listed in the Bible. And this is the reason I don't go to a brick n mortar building filled with people just to adhere to more man-made law.
I did a study once, extensive one. I was so SHOCKED at what I had learned. One lady had told me she wasn't allowed to go into a church other than one of her own. I asked her why and she told me if she did, then the building would fall down around her. 2 months later I took her to a church, sat down beside her and she shook so bad from being afrad. It was very sad. She enjoyed the music, the preaching and the fellowship afterwards. A little later she left the place she originally went and was so happy. Her mom, remained at that other place and a couple years later got sick and passed away. The girl, now goes back to the other place because the "elders of the other place" talked to her and told her if she didn't come back then she would have no HOPE in seeing her mom ever again.
It is much more than simple scare tactics. And the study I did, I could fill a book easy with only a fourth of these types of instances. It is wrong. It is dangerous.
But from what I can see, and put in plain thoughts, seperation of church and state., here is my understanding, as long as the church sends the "state" the big hunk of fee (to become tax expempt) then they will stay away. I may have it wrong, but that is my opinion.
Yeah, I think we are in argeement.
You know, I truly feel sorry for those who have nothing better to do than bash the bible. As far as diet goes, the dietary laws went when Jesus came. Judaism does not follow the NT because they do not believe JC is the messiah. They only follow the Torah, which is what we call the Old Testament. For those who believe the bible is a fairy tale, all I can say, is one day they will have to explain that one to God himself. All one has to do is read Revelation, and see how it already told, many, many years ago, the things that are occuring in the world today.
Frankly, bible bashers, continue to read the bible, which seems to be a bit odd to me. If I dont like a book, I certainly am not going to continue to read it.
Fenixfan …you may want to look a little deeper to further your education than Christian backed t.v. documentaries, that’s similar to watching fox news or cnn for unbiased news, where one gets opinions rather than facts, usually.
Btw…perhaps you would care to check the misspelling in your opening lines prior to offering negative criticism to other’s errors.
After investigating the history of the bible and religion, looking at the inconsistencies, tall tales etc, and reflecting on my time as a christian (nearly 2 decades) - no prayers answered etc, I am doubtful any of it is factual.
It seems to be a piece of literature written a few thousand years ago, but people trying to explain their world (a very small part of the world - middle east etc, as didn't even know there were other continents etc), and creating a superbeing and perfect world to replace their imperfect world.
Bailey:...right on the money!
Why is it that you and I know these things and others seem to wallow in ignorance and beliefs based on myth and superstition, when it's all there for them to study and understand?
I read comments that astound me because their premise lacks education and understanding.
This is the "information" age. knowledge is there for the taking. All one has to do is ask and Google will produce.
Libraries will become defunct because we can sit at home and glean, from the computer, any information we're curious about.
Believers are so frustrated by the extremity of their bigotry, that they won't search for other possibilities. They'd rather accept myth as reality. Amazingingly stupid!
yep, that's my observation too. Funny how kangaroos weren't mentioned in the bible - oh, that's right, they'd never seen a kangaroo, because they didn't even know Australia existed. Nor America or any other parts of the world.
And the printing press was only invented about 500 years ago...no-one had their own personal copy of the bible back then (after people decided which books were to go in it).
Believe and accept all of it as being the divine words of God Himself spoken through His Holy Spirit, written down by the hands of mankind. The Holy Bible is "TRUTH" The Old Testament books were for the most part recorded by God's Chosen Prophets. Some writings are of a prophetic nature, some are Historical, but all are "TRUTH" The New Testament books are Gospel writings, historically documented writings, again all are "TRUTH" The only book in the New testament that is Prophetic, yet is as we speak becoming "TRUTH" is the book REVELATION written by the Apostle John.
Whose to say that Adam and Eve weren't the first Jewish people? Maybe that is what the original author meant, when he said God created the first man and woman in the Garden of Eden. Whose to say that there wasn't a cosmic event that erupted, and in that single explosion the foundations of the earth were laid down, and that that event only took 7 days?
The fact is religion needs science to shed light on things, that ancient man were unable to describe or explain. Another fact is maybe we modern day readers of the bible, need not to take certain aspects of the bible so literal. Such as time...., it is a known fact that time was measured much differently from how it is now. Something might be written down that it took seven days, well seven days back then could have meant a 700 million years to the original author of Genesis. Have any of you spoken to the original author of Genesis lately, to find out what was really in his head when he wrote down that folklore? Of course you haven't, so how do you know for sure what was meant, and how do you know for sure where he came up with his relative measurements? The fact is we can never know what the author was thinking, why he wrote such facts down and what calenders or horizons was he appearing upon. Only science can help us get to the bottom of the tale, and discover its hidden meaning and answers.
As a Christian it is my firm belief that if we really want to understand God, we must look to science for the better part of that answer.
Believe all of the Word of God and ask God to give understanding.
Here's my answer for you.
I enjoy reading the Bible for many reasons, even though am I an Atheist. My favorite parts are undoubtedly the visions of Ezra in the book of Ezdras, where a debate between a man (Ezra) and God's Angel takes place. It is quite rich in primitive philosophy.
I also enjoy reading John the Evangelist. He seems less inclined to stupor, makes fewer references to Jesus' miracles and seems more persuasive.
I take nothing in the Bible literally, but there is always something to learn.
Believe it or not ediggity, many do. It is a constant in our society. Even so called Christians tune the Bible to meet their liking.
So, they believe there is a GOD that can do anything, but can't make a book.
Oh yes. It's not that they believe He can't write the book. It's just that they see something that they enjoy doing and realize to fully follow Christianity that they must give it up. And many aren't willing to do that. Genesis itself shows exactly what most think. The forbidden fruit. It empowered man with knowledge. From that point we were doomed because most think that they know best for themself. People develop such intellectual brains, that nothing that isn't based on science can exist. Sad.
What is sad about knowledge is having to witness, otherwise mature humans, believing in nonsensical fairytales, just like children. Sad indeed.
You are due a deserved round of applause for that comment.!
Ah the most innocent form in the world being made fun of. What a fine person that makes you out to be.. :S
It's not my fault that some people wish to hold on to childish fairytales, instead of accepting reality.
And some people think that they can even validate a book of insane myths written by ignorant goat herders, claiming to be inspired by God.
In the 21st century, this is shamefully backward.
The "religious" were the RULERS of the people. They were self-appointed, pompus educated elite of the time
People develop such intellectual brains, that nothing that isn't based on science can exist
its always the one with smartness causing all the problems.
blessed are the poor in spirit... jesus is so right about everything.
A way of learning is with an open mind, you know, not closed, for if a door is shut, and bolted down, it cant be used when the emergency hits.
You are right hanging out, blessed are the meek as well.
Help me understand which parts of the Bible to believe-
The problem you have is to separate Jesus' work from religion.
Too many people foolishly believe Jesus' was part of religion, which his work was most certainly not.
Yes, Jesus was religious in his teachings, but because that was the primitive language that had developed at the time, in that part of the world.
The Language you see in the movies is present day language and interpretations taken to the extreme. However, if you were to look at the time which Jesus lived, then it would paint a completely different picture.
The "religious" were the RULERS of the people. They were self-appointed, pompus educated elite of the time. Millions of people were enslaved, during Jesus' time. The amount of poor was absolutely unbelievable.
Jesus spoke to people, help them to do things, learn things and how to be self guiding. Religion at the time, was worship or be outcast or die. There wasn't much of a choice.
For Jesus to do his work, he coded his words in metaphorical parables, so as to not be bothered by the Romans or Educated elite of Religion.
Jesus' work was added to religion AFTER he was executed, what today is NO CRIME. Why is it not a crime? Why else. There is no god to blasphemy against. The educated elite know this, but use it against people, like a weapon. Even the educated elite of Jesus' time knew it was false, but perpetuated it forth to the masses, so as to better control them.
The OT, perpetuated then, is still the same today. The NT is Paul's addition to Christianity, and his literal interpretation is so far off, it's not even funny.
This all comes from a book- the Bible. Where the major 3 doctrines which are supposedly "god" inspired, are unattainable because of human nature.
Okay, that's my rant on your topic. Do try to enjoy.
And a nice rant it is, but it does once and all show that we as humanity think we are the most divine, intelligent beings ever formed. A saying to live by is anything you can do I can do better. One thing that is hard for me to believe is that we "men" ended up being the highest intelligent form from the Big Bang. Seriously. It's laughable to me. I can't wait to see the next species that branches off from us. Maybe I will be alive to see that happen.
You seem to be missing something in your words. It seems as though you have already made up your mind about what parts of the bible to believe and asked this question for your own sole purpose, to throw away other people's opinions, facts, ideology or whatnot.
The human species is the most intelligent species on the Earth. The simple fact that we, as individuals, have WILL power to overcome any obstacle, and also have unlimited potential, as to what we can become.
Yes, there will always be someone who can do something better than others. It doesn't make one superior to that other person, it only means they are better at that one thing.
Your statement says a lot about you. It also shows you lack of knowledge about life in general.
Secondly, I find your statement in conflict with yourself and your beliefs. If you believe in a god, then your statement defames your "god", because your belief is that "god" put human beings on Earth. So, in essence, you just dissed your own "god".
If you don't believe in a "god", then apparently you have other issues to deal with and you might consider dealing with those, before taking on understanding that humanity is the highest intelligent species on the planet. Yes, do realize, I didn't say life form.
To the average person, and I don't mean the ignorant or illiterate, human beings are a species, not just a life form. Please stick to living in reality. It's much safer.
Not likely, considering evolution takes quite a while.
You have only contradicted yourself with your last post. We all say things for our own benefit. Of course I posted this thread for my own benefit, to understand the thoughts of others. It gives me more insight to others beliefs and thought processes. We could discuss how the remains of Sodom and Gomorrah were found by scientists under layers of the earth. They found that the area portrayed in the Bible had indeed been burnt down, but scientist could not link another incident, but what was described in the Bible. I've done my research. Just looking for a sound, educated opinion of which you do provide. You may be correct in my defaming God, but it doesn't waver my belief on Him. I could be entirely wrong about everything along with the majority of the rest of the world, but know that you could also.
The main point was to find what parts evolutionists or atheists thought to be true about the Bible as many will agree that certain events did take place. Your case, however is different as you don't believe in any of it, which I like better. At least you aren't sitting on the fence like most.
I like your opinion because you aren't standing on some of the facts of the Bible and denying others. Don't jump the gun on me Cagsil. This is just to gather opinions. At least I'm not dodging the thread like many others do.
The "bible" is going to match certain things found by others. Some events written about did happen. That which is verified accurate will always remain true. The other things, that which, cannot be verified, to the religious will be taken on faith.
However, I would ask you check on one thing- find out when the "bible", first uses the word "I".
And, let me know what you come up with.
Just a thought.
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Another great verse is Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Talk about the ball being dropped.
Cag, I as a believer am sorry, but this is a prime example of why and how people judge God for the actions of people.
I do not know the exact time those statements were spoken, if I did I would share with you when.
Humans evolved to live on land. We developed the ability to write and print books. No bibles existed in mass circulation before the printing press was invented ... not by some gods, but by humans!
Humans learned how to speak and developed a variety of languages around the world ... did we even try to learn how to understand other highly evolved life forms around us? No way! To busy spreading religious BS instead of asking ourselves some serious questions what more intelligent animals than us may know, feel and undestand the importance of life on planet earth to be?
Stupid humans go around pulluting their minds with nationalism, commercialism and religiosity instead of living in much greater harmony with nature like whales, dolphines and other highly evolved fellow beings do ... why do we ignore them, kill them and feel superior to them? Because we are greater polluters, watch TV and drive cars?
We know very little about the REAL power of nature and REAL smarts nature can offer because we have BS religion and the other two major mind polluting factors to keep us busy!
Wake up all you fellow humans, kick the shit bucket once and for all ... open your pee brain mind and try to get a bit more in tune with NATURE ... she has a lot more to offer than you can even immagine!
Christianity started after Jesus' execution. A good many years later, did Christianity come into being.
Much of what the disciples wrote down were decades after Jesus' execution, and was not written during Jesus' life.
And, as I keep saying, and people keep dismissing, so I have to continue to repeat myself- religion is a hoax- it has been since it's inception.
It's a great business to be in, if you want to get wealthy and usurp a power of influence over people.
It's doctrine, which are supposedly "god" inspired, are unattainable by human beings. Human beings are flawed. Perfection cannot ever be achieved at a consistent rate. Perfection in reality is something that simply happens from time to time, and only for a brief moment in time.
The "bible"- and it's "god" concept are simply out-dated. The fact is the world needs more responsible people and considering 2/3 of the world population is religious....should speak volumes about what's wrong with this picture?
There is no god. Never has been, never will be.
Yes, I can say that with confidence. I say that because- "Life" does not require a "god" to be understood. And, "Living" Life does not require a "god" to be completed.
Human beings are self-guiding, consciously active, individual parts of one species. If more people were not so selfish(which is what religion makes people to be), then the world might be a better place.
Too much of religion- all of them- have become a detriment to the world.
Hold on Cagsil. I've been on the phone with the know it all department. They said their president has been missing for days. Better get back. Haha. I love how I've wasted your non believing, spiritually condemned time. Cheers mate.
By the way Cagsil. Where do you get your information? At least I provide a documented book that was written by top scholars.
I find it interesting that you love that you have wasted my time. How can you waste something for which is not yours to begin with?
How I spend my time is how I spend my time. If anything you just helped in my natural learning process. That's all. I enjoy learning about people.
What I learn about people, allows me more than you can imagine. And, at this very second, you haven't a clue with regards to what I have learned about you. And, most likely won't ever find out.
The "reason" you won't find out is because I'm not likely to tell you, because it's my understanding that you have no serious need to know.
However, all is not lost. Something was learned. Enjoy.
And I so looked forward to delving deeper into your infinite logic. Can you answer one more thing? How is you believing there is no God any different than me believing there is? You have still not provided one shred of reference to your belief other than you "knowing it is true"
I grew up Catholic. I've read the bible more times than I care to count. I've researched "religion" and it's history. I've researched human history.
The sad thing is that I've mentioned this before to many people on HP's forums. Human nature demands you understand the difference between what is real and what is illusion.
It's called gaining wisdom. Wisdom is the discerned truth of life.
You can mock me in any manner you choose, however, you actions speak volumes with regards to yourself. Even the words you use to form your sentence that come for consciously typing on a keyboard, will speak volumes about you.
But, you're more than welcome to do the same test I conducted myself. Religion claims that what is in each religious "bible" is truth.
The only human response is to test the doctrines and adapt them to your life. This means, you walk the walk, instead of what you're doing- which is talk the talk.
When you live and breathe the doctrine, lets say 1 year(I did it for awhile longer), but you can do it within a years time.
Learn how you fail to match up to the doctrine. Watch how you falter more than you'd ever imagine. Watch how you begin to change and you won't recognize yourself in the mirror.
You'll become even more self-absorbed than you already are, you'll become absolutely selfish with your time, because you'll be so irritated people in general and it will open your eyes about the people in your life. Things you wouldn't see otherwise.
Then we'll talk. Until you test them yourself, nothing I am going to say is going to change anything. The religion claims the bible is 'god' inspired- if it was truly inspired by a god, then the doctrines would not force a human being go against his/her own nature.
We are self-guiding individuals. We have the capability of being responsible for our own life. No god required.
Cagsil, I've been at the highest point in my life, financially stable with no worries, friends at my disposal to lean on and had them all taken away from me. A father that guided me through life and taught me right from wrong then plucked from my life when I needed him most, but I did not blame it on there not being a God. Humans tend to give up when things don't seem to match what they think should happen. As far as talking the talk, you have done nothing but that. You revealed that you couldn't follow the doctrine of the Bible and blame that on the Bible being fake? It seems more like a personal thing to me. The fact that we sin is already pointed out by the Bible. What other reason would we have prayer for. We are told that we will sin and even unconsciously sin because the nature of man is naturally evil. With your intelligence, I know you can realize that. Look at the war that surrounds us. However, the fact that I have sinned and had everything good taken from me doesn't make me change my beliefs because I think that I am too weak to live up to the doctrine I believe in. If everyone thought that way our "Species" would go extinct because everyone would lie down after they failed. Give me a better excuse Cagsil.
You're too funny.
Doctrine #1 Selfless- turns one selfish.
Doctrine #2 Oppress desires- turns one insane.
Docrinte #3 100% erased doubt of a god's existence- cannot be done, because it is human nature to need something real to do so.
I'm sorry, your belief has no substance and yes, I read what you posted earlier about your father. I chalk it up to your father's desire to live. His view changed, he began to treasure life more than he did before. Hence, why the change occurred.
It only takes a conscious mind to understand what happened with your father, even though other said something different. Humans make mistakes, and you're included, whether or not, you like it.
So please. I'm sure you'll have some witty comeback, because all religious folk are great for it.
I expressed the same general sentiment to him a while back. I guess I'm not the only one to recognize his fallacy. it is pretty obvious.
How do you know Casgil? Were you there? You have first-hand knowledge so I assume you were there!!!
Just because you have a belief that God doesn't exist, doesn't mean you are right! Just because God doesn't chose to come down and prove himself to you or anyone else doesn't mean he is not real!
What if you are wrong Casgil? But wait, you can't be...your belief is truth! That is self righteous nonsense!
goes both ways - how can creationists be sure either - they weren't there when life began
Time to show the 'Love" peace and goodwill from the bible again.
"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)"
Strange instructions from a "loving god"
If you were this "God thing"? (as you express him)
How would you go about eliminating those false prophets that say that they are spreading your messages when they are not.
It is easy to say that I wouldn't do it that way!
But another thing to know the the out come if it was done our way.
We may think that we know the truth, BUT no one can even pretend to know what came before the truth?
and you believe this because you believe a certain book was written by god? And because other believers told you so? Any real evidence?
the proof is in MY pudding. MY life. I have found that by submitting to Christ all the proof i need is overflowing.
my life wasn't full of drugs, sex, and rock and roll before I became a christian - I was a child. The most vulnerable people to be converted are the vulnerable: children, teenagers (because haven't developed enough of their own reasoning skills & education) and down-and-outers - the mentally ill, the broke, after a break-up or other life crisis.
Nope, my life didn't overflow while being dedicated to an invisible being for years. Realising I'd been fed a lie of the cult of pentecostal christianity was horrible to face up to.
To answer the OP
Everyone is tired of hearing this ...
You need a bible that is highlighted.
Begin by reading the words in RED.
If you believe that what someone else in scripture contradicts what Jesus said. Back up and re think it.
There will be a false interpretation some place.
Ya gotta find it and get rid of it, before you continue on.
Do that and decide for yourself, what parts to believe.
Hahaha TY Pylos! :-)
Of course I noticed them too...but that's being picayune (spelling) lol
I checked the spelling ...it's ok...hahaha
To start out, scientists only 'discover' what is already here. Things like atoms, and even cloning is possible because cells already exist. Science isn't 'creating' things, except maybe synthetic drugs. Now as far as evolution goes, do you think we could place all the correct DNA in a barrel, turn the barrel for a few million years and it will evolve into anything? Somehow I doubt it. The fact that scientists never cease to discover what is already here, and it is vast, tells me God is a master scientist who knows a great deal than we haughty humans will ever know. I look at the entire Bible as useful and if any of it sounds 'far fetched' well to people over 100 years ago, space travel, computers and modern inventions seemed equally as far fetched. But humans like to Think they are the most intelligent creatures in the universe, but I really doubt we are.
humans like to think they're the most intelligent creatures on Earth. As for god the master scientist, I've written a hub about a not-so-intelligent designer
Bobbirant, Yes God is the master scientist.
Bobbirant wrote: Science isn’t creating anything except maybe synthetic drugs.
‘Thing like atoms and even cloning is possible because cells already exist.”
I’m wondering Bobbi…did the ingredients for so called synthetic drugs not already exist too… or, did scientist hatch those from eggs or something.
I would go as far as to say that the more insane we become, the wiser we think that we are.
If you think that everyone around you are crazy?
I wonder what THEY are thinking about you.
And maybe everyone is right!
It's funny how an architect likes to be given credit for designing mere buildings, artists want credit for art, yet we Refuse to give credit to a Creator. To each his own beliefs!
Why is that so funny? The answer is very very simple:
The Architect and Artist are real flesh and bone entities, while a creator is only imagined.
Imaginary entities do not deserve the same credit as real entities. In fact, they don't deserve any credit.
If you think differently?-- explain.
Before I answer that, could you please define love?
I don't know what you mean by love.
That explains a lot. It's actually kind of sad. I feel sorry for you.
STOP PATRONIZING ME! I DON'T NEED ANY PITY FROM YOU.
These irrational assumptions show a substandard understanding of simple linguistics.
And the attempt at psycho-analyzing me is ABSURD.
There is nothing significant that can be presented to validate an insane childish belief in fairytales, so stooping to this egregious level of condescension is expected.
THAT IS WHAT'S PITIFUL. However, psychosis can be treated.
And all this because I simply asked for a definition of love.
So much anger. There's no need to yell type lol. I wasn't "psycho-analyzing" you. I simply made an observation, which has been further supported by your following comment. Your actions speak louder than the words you type.
These opinions are too nonsensical to be taken seriously. Which is supported by the delusional child-like belief in imaginary beings...doing magic.
Imagine YOU, trying to be the voice of reason->->->
Imagine someone that has no belief in anything as yourself, trying to be the voice of reason. What a person to follow. No dreams. No hope. Just what already is. No open mindedness. Blind as the Bible calls it. People of the earth, who worship the earth and ultimately shall be consumed by the earth. I would hate to live in the thought of there being no afterlife. Just gone after you die. Dead... that's it.
What makes you think just because someone doesn't share your beliefs, that they have no dreams or hope...or that they are closed minded?
Religion is simply a weakness. It is an inability to confront reality, yet still have joy and hopes and dreams.
Sorry, there is no evidence that suggests that there is an afterlife. No evidence...No evidence. How can I simply ignore that, unless I become psychotic.
That is most likely the reason why believers embrace the delusion of the afterlife, because they really, really want to believe it.
Personal attacks on me won't make up for you not knowing the love of Jesus Christ.
I'm just reacting to your unprovoked assault on my character.
And there IS NO love of Jesus Christ, because there IS NO Jesus.
To say that I don't know the love of an imaginary character is nonsensical and delusional.
BTW...you have never answered one of my responses to your many intelligent remarks...
do you not like me either?
Sorry I kinda disregarded this post when it went into a sissy fuss which most atheist and evolutionists tend to do. If most would read the opening post and give a solid answer there would be no arguing. If you read back over my post I have not started one argument but have been called names and such. Read the letters of John and see what they said would come to pass. I think you may find yourself in those books.
I didn't realize you were responding to me. I see the words BTW in your post above. What does that mean? I don't dislike you. I love everyone.
I believe the bible just wound up in the wrong directory.
Most myths like this start with "Once upon a time"
not "In the beginning" thus causing the confusion.
thats right myths do start differently.. truths start with accurate sentences about truth. In the beginning god created... bible starts with a miracle and ends with miracles and there are miracles all the way through it. To take the miracles out, the healings out and the supernatural element out would be to change the entire character of christianity.
If ya cant handle the heat don't play with the fire.
The god of luv speaks again.
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)
The psychopathic fairy at work.
I usually do read these verses "OF Love" that you post.
And I generally have a different point of view.
Jeramiah 50: 1- 20 was a prophesy as to Persia coming and taking dominion of the area from Babylon.
Verse 21 ? who knows what that might be referring to when we take into consideration the previous description of the Medo-Persian Empire coming into existence.
War can be described in many ways. And is never pretty.
This could have simply said, WAR WILL COME ! But it didn't.
It would make way more sense if the bible just clearly stated what it is trying to convey.
Why is there a need to interpret scripture? Did God command believers to interpret scripture? If so, how would one know if that's what He meant, because that too would be subject to interpretation?
And since interpretation is, literally, just the individuals opinion, like an abstract painting, it has no relevance when dealing with logical questions.
For the sake of logic, I take the bible literally.
Help me understand which parts of the Bible to believe.
I especially like the part that says from this time forward, his laws will be written in the hearts of Mankind. and he is sending a comforter to guide us.
I think that this means that this is all that we need!!!
We are directed to hang out with fellow believers and support each others faith, to help anyone when they fall. Not to kick them when they are down.
I don't think that we were directed to go out into the world with the intention of converting anyone, except by simply being a good example.
To not hide our faith and to share our beliefs when asked.
Jesus never pushed it on anyone.
All I can give is advice.
The truth is within you, right? read and think and feel.Discover the fruit of the spirit by observation, as it says.
Jesus told the apostles to be as wise as serpents and gentle as doves.
Learning some logic and often seen logical fallacies can help weed out some blatant nonsense.
Remember the Classical philosopher Socrates:
I noticed that the more someone said they knew, and the more they wanted me to know that they knew, the less they actually did.
I know that I know nothing, therefore, I know the most of all!
This is a classic paradox: "I know that I know nothing"
I have found it very useful, as to me it is more about a lack of certainty and fluidity in one's model of the universe.
It also removes one's own ego from the equation. There is a lot of ego in supposedly neutral statements of fact.
Help me understand which parts of the Bible to believe?
One should only believe those parts of Bible which contain quotes from the Creator-God Allah YHWH or those which are quotes from a Messenger or Prophet of the Creator-God .
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<snipped graphic image>Search for 'birth defects' and you will find lots of disturbing images like this one - some look barely human
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