Do you believe in ghosts and the paranormal?

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manofmystery24posted 12 years ago

Believer or Skeptic, please write why.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe in aliens, any monsters or ghosts remaining on earth to "haunt" places. However I do believe in angels and demons. I believe in the afterlife and I believe that spiritual world is just as real and ever lasting.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  sorry, but you believe in angels and demons but NOT aliens?
  
  Considering the scientific knowledge of the scope of the universe, you are inclined against the belief that there is life out there in space? I'm not saying they have ever visited Earth, but given the scale and such of the universe it's pretty definite that out there, somewhere, conditions have reached a point where life has evolved. It may not be as advanced as us, and it might well be more advanced than us; the point remains that there is definitely life out there.
  
  If that's what you don't believe in, and yet believe in angels in demons, then I'd be intrigued as to why. I apologise if this comment sounds snarky, it isn't meant to be but it's late and i'm half awake.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I actually enjoy snarky quite a bit.
  Ok, I will answer your question so you can put me in a box, so to speak. I believe in the spiritual realm. I believe in God and angels and Satan and demons. I believe every thing the Bible says as absolute truth. I believe in spirits, but the spirit of a man. I believe a spirit leaves a man's body when he dies and that spirit will stand before his creator. If God said there were zombies, aliens and vampires, I would believe it, however in Genesis, what God created was clearly documented and those entertaining monsters were not included.
  
  The Bible is full of amazing stories, more fanciful than any talented author could come up with, including angels sleeping with women, giants and prostitutes turned virtuous. So these are the things I believe, with no doubt... because I believe in God's word with no doubt. Thanks for your interest.
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  gmwilliamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are disembodied entities and spirits who refuse to go on. There are things in the world beyond the physical. That is an undeniable fact of life.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are they detectable? If so, how? If not, how do you know they are there?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ghosts and the paranormal? Mindless entertainment or fairy tales for adults who have yet to grow up, the choice is six of one and half dozen of the other.
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  Miriam Weissmannposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm open to most things, so I wouldn't dismiss anything.
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  Lybrahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am not sure whether I answered this forum already, but here is the truth. These "ghosts" are familiar spirits. They are really demons who float around and observe us, so they know all about us. They appear to certain "psychic" people like Silvia Browne, inpersonating the dead and making us think we are communicating with deceased family members. When one dies, one either goes directly to heaven or to hell. You don't hang around here as a ghost. This is Satan's way of deceiving us to draw us away from what the bible says.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You cannot spout something and proclaim it to be the 'truth'. It's merely your belief.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This explanation sounds like it came right from the Dark Ages.
  How absurd.
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  Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am absolutely dumbfounded at the Salem stick pointing and incredibly misinformed statement that you have made.... Unbelievable!! In this day and age, people are being 'tricked' into thinking that there's a spirit world?? You go straight to heaven or hell???? Unbelievable!! How Sad!! I was looking forward to rattling a few chains and being able to change sheets every day!
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  Vincent Mooreposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Pearl I beg to differ in good humor of course. I wish you had been on that Kentucky back road I parked on one early morning back in 2004, I came almost face to face with a lady in white, she stared at me from the back of my trailer where she was standing and looked at me through my passenger west coast mirror. I had the guts to walk to the back of my truck and see her up closer as she turned and drifted like a mist into the cemetary that just happened to be there. I never believed in ghosts or the paranormal until that morning and I've never forgotten her. I wrote a poem "Graveyard of Lost Souls" two years ago, I believe it's still here in the hubs. I now have a very open mind:-) when it comes to ghosts. lol
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've had a number of experiences ... don't know what they are ... they just are.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know some of those Ky. backroads. You weren't....perhaps....on that winding road to Lebanon or some other wet town, were ya?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed. True.
  At least at the core of it.
  
  I did see a figure one time, a dark figure standing at the foot of my bed when I was a child, apparently a warning because that's the same night I woke up to hear my Mom say we had to leave 'cause our house had flooded! But that's different from trying to talk to dead family members etc. You are right---the devil and his minions try to deceive anyone they can! Much of it would be actually laughable if it weren't for the fact that those "psychics" you describe play on the confusion and grief of people who're missing their deceased family members; what a rip-off artist Sylvia Browne and those other so-called psychics are! .Stealing people's money and offering souls to the devil.
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justateacherposted 12 years ago
I definitely do...I have had too many encounters not to. The two latest was when my grandson played with my mother - who had passed away a year before (and he still talks to her all the time) and the two little girls who giggled and played with toys in our spare bedroom.
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DzyMsLizzyposted 12 years ago
We have a several spirits in and around our home. They are not demons or evil; they simply exist; they just are just as much as you and I.
The fact that they exist on a different plane of existence than ours does not lessen their reality, and now and then, things shift in such a way that we experience a brief interaction with that other realm.
I do not believe in angels or devils--only in the innate capacity for both good and evil within humans themselves.
There are many reasons a spirit may remain, and it is not always a 'refusal' to move on; often it is a bewilderment as to what happened to them, particularly in the case of sudden and violent deaths.
I suggest you look up fellow Hubber, Christine B: http://christine-b.hubpages.com/ who is a professional paranormal investigator for more information on this topic.
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karthikkashposted 12 years ago
I do believe in supernatural and paranormal beings such as ghosts, aliens, ghouls, demons, angels and so on. However, I do not necessarily believe in the classical differences between some of them such as ghosts, demons, angels and gods. I think these are different powers which vibrate at different frequencies in this universe. They are just energy forms according to me (honestly, I haven't encountered a ghost till now, so I cannot believe that it has a physical form).

I am sure that aliens and other paranormal creatures exist. It is just a matter of time before people accept their existence.
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Cera Horneposted 12 years ago
I believe.
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SoundNFuryposted 12 years ago
I definitely believe that there are things that happen that cannot be easily explained. I recently wrote about one of my childhood experiences with entities that can probably be considered "ghosts" or "spirits" - they were definitely not on the same physical plane as you or I. I called them the "Little Green Men" as that was the best was I could describe them as a child:

http://soundnfury.hubpages.com/_3ms9z58 … hey-Anyway
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ptosisposted 12 years ago
I know that we all don't know enough to dismiss the possibility the existence. Quantum theories of multiple universes and 21 dimensions and all that. Living creatures with electrical nervous systems that are in a magnetic field could possibly leave some sort of imprint akin to a magnetized screwdriver after being near a magnet.

I can tell when I enter a new situation and the people working there hate/angry at each other even though no overt signs of distress. If living in such an environment over a long period of time I believe the emotional imprint will be left in that room/office building.

There is a reason why hotels close a room off forever without renting it out when a super-violent murder takes place in the room. Some hotels don't do that. That's why the 2007 movie called 1408 with John Cusack is so scary. That's why in certain states when selling a house - by law must tell the buyer that a murder has been in there - it lowers the price. People instinctively felt that something bad left behind in a murder and it's not just blood stains.
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SoManyPathsposted 12 years ago
I believe in them. Had a few experiences as did my Mother. I don't tell other people about it. There will always be non-believers (or those, scientist types, that want some physical proof). They just have to move forward and go outside their comfort box.

I never knew that about the hotels and murders. Is that enforced in all states?
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I felt as if I'd had experiences in my youth, and my father has told many me many stories about how paranormal experiences and how I seemed to have some sense of things (as he did, and his grandmother too) - and i've heard stories from the other side of the family who tell me that I experienced things and then told them about it all calmly.
  
  the problem I have is that now i'm older, and more educated in the fields of modern science, I believe that it's more than possible for a lot of these experiences to be explained through mental duress (family members recently passing away) or an over-active imagination (of which i'm more than guilty).
  
  Of course, not all of it can be explained. Thus my stance on the paranormal is speculative; a lot of the things shown on TV and such is clearly ridiculous, but there are some things that can't always be grounded in reality by science.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How do you know it can't all be explained? You can't go back and recreate the scene and "ghosts" to make any tests or further observations. You (nor anyone else) know all the possibilities for explanation.
  
  The best you can claim is that you can't explain it, but that hardly seems a reason to decide that ghosts exist.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That may be the case, but the issue is that many of these theories are based on hear-say and eye-witness accounts, and with the unpredictability of human nature and brain patterns, even that cannot be relied upon. Thus the problem is that without any true evidence, theories of the paranormal will be widely rejected by any average human who follows modern science, unless they themselves have experienced something strange that they cannot explain with rational thought.
  
  I'm not saying they do exist, and at this point i'm a little confused at the point you're trying to make. I feel you may have misunderstand my comment.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Quite likely I did. However,
  
  "Thus my stance on the paranormal is speculative" and "there are some things that can't always be grounded in reality by science"
  
  gives me to believe that for whatever reason you believe that there is some kind of world outside of reality. Another "dimension", the "supernatural", call it what you will, but there is something out there that is not of this world and does not follow the physical laws of this universe.
  
  As we have never, ever found anything that does not follow the rules, I will never understand why anyone insists that such exists. Every time we "find" something like that we also eventually find the laws and rules it operates under.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am not suggesting such a plane of existence exists, but given the fields of science and it's progression - it's very clear that we are in fact quite 'in the dark' in a lot of things related to the space-time continuum.
  
  Also, our knowledge is entirely limited to man's capability of perception and knowledge. It's likely that there are lot of things out there in the universe that we simply cannot comprehend nor begin to understand (which would not follow what we believe to be the grounded laws of physics), given how our science is based upon experience and testing.
  
  Please don't misinterpret my words - I lean very heavily towards scientific fact over hear-say and similar ideals. I just keep an open mind in this aspect in that there may well be possibilities of crazy stuff going down. Although, i'm more of the inclination that I have an over-active imagination and have hallucinated before, leading to me retelling stories that others around me want to believe so much that they believe they experience similar things.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I certainly apologize if I mistook your meaning - that was not my intent.
  
  Although we can't perceive many, many things (UV or IR light, radiation, radio waves or a star a million light years away, we can build instruments that do the perceiving for us so far. Of course we're always finding new things; perceiving that which we did not before.
  
  On the other hand, I don't see any reason to think that there is anything we can't comprehend (and is real) given enough time. We may not be able to imagine 4D space with our limited 3D perspective but we can model it and work with it mathematically; we can "comprehend" it. We will not, of course, ever know if there is something by definition.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed, so soon the ideas of the paranormal might be as trivial as the original explanations for gravity; hence my incredibly sceptic attitude toward the experiences I've been told I've had. All the supposed encounters with the deceased may well one day be easily explained.
  
  Given enough time, yes, we will most certainly understand more and more, providing there is no sudden disasters which halt the progress of science. For now however, we are in the dark on the rare occasion that science cannot discern the truth of people's experiences.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *shrug* It took decades to debunk Piltdown Man - how can we expect science to immediately explain an experience that the researcher didn't observe, can't measure and can't repeat?
  
  At best, the researcher can give some alternate possibilities. "Might have been swamp gas" but the inevitable answer is always "No - I don't know what swamp gas is or looks like and I certainly didn't check for any, but I didn't see any so it was definitely a ghost."
  
  Every time that science is actually there to observe and measure there are no ghosts. Maybe if people that observed such things made a real effort to find a cause instead of declaring "I don't know, so it was a ghost" we wouldn't be trying to discern truth from a simple personal report of an experience.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree completely. The issue lies upon the fact that without scientific equipment to record the occurrence straight away, and being unable to properly recreate it leaves us with a lazy answer of 'magic'.
  
  This 'magic' has been used to explain much (see religious texts) for many years whilst science slowly disproves it all. In the meantime, people will simply shrug and say "must be ghosts."
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marculzposted 12 years ago
Don't really believe in ghost as long as I cant see them if they real or not...
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SoManyPathsposted 12 years ago
True. Some can surely be explained and some occasions can't.
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Silva Hayesposted 12 years ago
Thirty years ago, I saw a spirit several times (perhaps six or eight times) and so did my husband and daughter, each at separate times from me or each other.

The setting: Georgetown, Texas, about a block from Southwestern University, on a quiet, tree-lined street, a beautiful old wood frame home on a corner lot with a rear-entry garage, so we always left and entered through the back door into the kitchen.

The situation: This was a time when we seemed to be living almost separate lives. I worked in downtown Austin, 30 miles away, and endured heavy traffic up and down I-35 morning and night and worked for an attorney who often kept us working late. My daughter was a teenager who was heavily involved in sports and other school activities and often wasn't home or else was holed up in her room. My husband traveled and was away from home 3 or 4 nights a week.

The vision: Several times as I arrived home from work and entered the kitchen, I saw, through the archway into the family room, a spirit drift from near the front door, across the family room at an angle, and disappear into the wall separating the family room from a bedroom. It was a young woman dressed in clothes of the 1800s, white chiffon dress, blue satin sash, long dark hair put up in a roll around her head, partially transparent, and seemingly unaware of my presence.

The conclusion: For some reason that I cannot explain, I did not tell anyone. I did not feel fear, exactly, just curiosity and a vague unease. Although I did not mention this to anyone, including my family, within a week or two, first my husband, then later my daughter, came to me and described the exact same phenomena, WITHOUT ANY PROMPTING on my part. So I know, beyond a doubt, that the house held a presence, a remnant from the past. This was before the days of the internet so there wasn't much I could do to research it. I did try, both at the library and by discreet inquiries, but came up with nothing. I can only speculate.
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  ATexanagainposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I had a similar experience in Round Rock, is the house still there in Georgetown?
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  Silva Hayesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know, but I would guess that it is. I am not sure of the address because it was so long ago, but I "think" it was 1501 Olive Street. It was a corner lot, a 4-bdr, 2 bath home, probably about 2,400 sq.ft. It was probably built in the fifties. So the lady we saw did not live in that house in the past, but perhaps in a previous house that was built on that land(?) We leased the house for 6 months while we were looking for a house to buy. The house on Olive was owned by a Doctor G---, can't remember his name, a professor at the university. He was already elderly back then. We now live about 50 miles away, on the other side of Austin, and I never go back to the Georgetown-Round Rock area.
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  ATexanagainposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm in Georgetown all the time I'll see if I can find the house.
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  Silva Hayesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, due to curiosity, I looked on Google for a bit and found the house. It's 1209 Olive Street, (not 1501), and it looks like it is currently for lease.
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chicagoguyposted 12 years ago
Nope !! never encountered so far !!
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rasta1posted 12 years ago
Growing up in rural Jamaica is enough evidence. A lot of spiritual activity happens here. My grandmother is 88 and had her first experience at that age. We both saw a spirit at the same time. It was not my first experience. It gave me some relief to know that my grandmother knows I am not crazy.
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Byonder5posted 12 years ago
Do it. Take time out. Don't be hurried. Don't let anyone hurry you.
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RobertSmith92posted 12 years ago
So you believe in something that was written thousands of years ago, and what you say yourself is 'full of amazing stories' over the factual theories and ideas presented by modern science?

Also, if you believe in the bible, you surely believe in some of the more horrible things present in it too. If you truly read the bible properly and saw the true meanings behind a lot of, I doubt you would be so ready in asserting your faith in your religion.

I will not go on, as it will digress majorly from the main topic.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have a lot of friends I'm very close to that are Atheists and I have to admit, I always find it funny how ppl don't respect your right to have faith. But I do, so there ya go.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I respect everyone's right to have faith, but when I find moral problems with what they are basing their belief upon then I feel it is only right to inform them of these problems.
  
  Everyone has a right to believe what they want. That doesn't mean their belief is wrong.
  
  Don't misunderstand me, I respect that many have religious beliefs because they are good people, but the majority of people involved in most religions are NOT good people, and haven't been throughout the history of those religions.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Awesome, I am relieved that you believe I have to right to believe as I choose. I've studied the Bible more than the average Joe, by my best estimation... and I find it to be historically accurate, prophetically accurate and spiritually accurate. And maybe more importantly, I have found God to be true, good, faithful and very much real. This has been my experience.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you wish, I could provide you with some information about the bible to give you some insight into the darker nature of the Christian religion. I won't post anything here, as I do not wish to digress the topic further.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Robert, as long as there are humans involved in any aspect of life... there will be darkness. Man left to his own morals and values is a frightening thing. There are many who claim to be Christians, from those responsible for the crusades to the Westboro church that spreads it msg. of hate far and wide. To know Christ and His ways is something most ppl haven't actually spent a lot of time investigating. God Himself, is love... He is good, there is no darkness in Him. Thanks for the offer, but I when it comes to God, I can't be swayed. Have a good night.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am left to my own morals, and I would say that I'm fairly respectable given my lack of reliance in a faith.
  
  If you know and understand how evil and dark humanity can be, have you not considered the possibility that your religious text was fabricated by such people in an effort to control and subject the masses (something that humanity has tried and succeeded to do since we first began grouping together)?
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Robert, I can't be swayed.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am not asking you to be, I was merely asking you a question on whether or not you considered it when making your decision.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Let me ask you this Robert. When making a decision to purchase a car, would you investigate your options pretty thoroughly or would you just slap your hard earned money on the counter and take your chances?
  
  I've committed my heart, my family, my money, my life and my death into God's hands. How likely is it that I haven't taken the basics into consideration? I know you don't know me at all, so let me assure you... I'm not without intelligence.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus
  
  I shall leave you at peace with that.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it fall... did it make a sound? I understand why that makes since to you, but it's just hype. Once your understanding of God is greater than it is now, you will have something of immeasurable value.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is a blatant contradiction. First, you talk about investigating options thoroughly and then admitting to having a closed mind.
  
  Sorry, but that is not intelligent by any stretch of the imagination.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you replying to me here? Not sure which points of mine you're highlighting.
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RobertSmith92posted 12 years ago
Yes. Just because no is there to percieve it, doesn't mean no sound waves are given off.

It isn't hype, it is a sound and logical argument that pretty much debunks all religions. If you can come up with a reasonable response in answer to it, then I will applaud you.

My knowledge of yours and many other's 'gods' is at it's highest peak; and it is indeed of immeasurable value to me.

I feel that you are a nice and moral person, and as such I take no enjoyment with debating with you in the fields of what many consider a very personal area. Many see it is an insult upon themselves if someone logically questions their faith and beliefs.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your first question: "...have you not considered the possibility that your religious text was fabricated by such people in an effort to control and subject the masses..."
  
  Of course... many have used religion to try and control ppl. Sex is also used to try and control ppl, as is money, government, brute strength, you name it. Do you still have to desire to have sex? Why? If it is used as a tool to try and control ppl, why would you desire it? Women are raped every day, children are molested... why would you desire sex? What does that make you, ignorant or evil?
  
  Well of course it makes you neither. Hopefully you are a good man who desires to fall in love with a woman and love her in every good way you have to offer. All kinds of evil men have come and gone and will come again to pervert the msg. of salvation that is offered to every man. Those men, their tactics and beliefs have nothing to do with God. God is all powerful, those men will have to answer to God for their lies.
  
  Your second statement: RobertSmith92 profile image
  RobertSmith92 30 minutes ago:
  
  "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus
  
  Why does man believe that he is superior to God when it comes to what is right or wrong? There is no knowledge God lacks unlike you and I who lack an infinite amount of knowledge. So is God willing to prevent evil, but unable? He is able to do all things so as men we say, why doesn't God make this a perfect world where no one suffers, no one dies... etc. The Bible clearly explains that when man chose sin over their relationship with God, that He gave us a free will. He would have to control our minds and actions to make a perfect world. Would you want to be in any relationship where you controlled the other person? This is not Heaven. He has created a perfect world that He offers mankind, "to as many as would receive Him." When you know His word, and Him well... all your questions will be answered if that is in deed what you seek.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is a difference between doctrines of text and natural desires. One is man-made, the other is something that we as a species cannot live without (without procreating how else can our species survive?)
  
  There is no right or wrong. In nature, do you see evidence of morality amongst creatures? The very idea of 'right or wrong' is a man made idea, hence why we have complete (and the only) knowledge on what we as a whole deem 'right' and 'wrong'.
  
  Surely if God is so knowledgeable, he would be able to create man in a way that he didn't 'sin' against his ideals? Again, with this knowledge, he would have foreseen the temptation, evil and suffering that would proceed from his creation of man - if so, why did he bother creating us? If we were in such a perfect world we would have no idea that we were being controlled, so why would we question it?
  
  The very idea of heaven is very obviously a man made concept. One of the easiest ways to scare anyone is threaten them with death. Threaten with the possibility of eternal damnation and pain and then you have them in the palm of your hand. Offer them peace and bliss, if they do what you say, then you are in control.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What would you personally get out of a relationship if you fully controlled the other person and they didn't know it? Would you prefer a relationship with a robot or an intelligent person, capable of choosing or rejecting you. When someone you love chooses you, when they fall in love with you, it is very rewarding and pleasing. He created us for His pleasure when you accept that God is all He says He is, you will realize you cannot make Him fit in the box you've created for Him.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So now you're saying your God created us for his pleasure? If he has feelings such as pleasure then surely he is not a deity, as pleasure is a base feeling that is also driven by darker past-times.
  
  So your same god who gave us free will got angry when we didn't choose him and thus decided to horrible things to people - even though your god was no where near even the first deity to appear on this earth. Hundreds of other religions proceeded him - how can you answer that? And if you literally believe in the bible - surely Eve's sons performed atrocities given that she was the only female, and how else were they able to reproduce?
  
  There are many, many problems and inconsistencies in the bible, not to mention the fact that ideas such as Jesus are ONLY recorded in the bible, and no other historical accounts from the area of the period he supposedly lived makes any mention of him whatsoever.
  
  Also how can you answer for Christmas - an amalgamation of pagan celebrations joined together with the idea of Jesus being born. This is known to have been first purposefully done by the Romans when they needed to get the Christians under control; so the emporer joined two religions together to give him complete control of his subjects.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you looked God in the eye, you would still deny Him for your heart is full of self... there is no room for Him there now.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can't look something in the eye if it isn't there to look at.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have no need of some magical being, as science has disproved much of what many religions has claimed. I am content in life, and I accept the fact that this is the only life I have; when I die, I die.
  
  The reason we are at odds is because humans have as a whole advanced enough that we don't need the doctrines of religion to hold our hands and give us purpose; we have now been to SPACE, we have actually left our planet. Surely at this point a god of some sort would have shown themselves for once to congratulate their pet project on their accomplishments?
  
  Science disproves nearly all of religion. The problem is that many of the religious cannot come to terms with that.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Robert, the reason we are "at odds" is because you don't respect another persons right to have faith in something you have discounted. It is ultimately very vain. God is not a unicorn, He's the creator of math and science and space and time. Your knowledge of these things is incredibly minute, but b/c God doesn't behave the way you think a god should behave, you shake your tiny fist at Him. If there is a chance God is real, you might spend your time pursuing that knowledge... or maybe that's what you're doing now. You will learn more about God reading the Bible than by endlessly debating His existence. CS Lewis was at one time an atheist and he writes on the fact that he had to convince himself that the whole human race were fools. You have that same outlook, what other explanation is there that so many have been duped so thoroughly for thousands of years, while you have risen like cream to the top of the milk? Unless possibly true Christians have not been brain washed... unless we are not simpletons in need of a fantasy to distract us from the darkness in the world... maybe instead some of us have actually experienced God and you have not. Lewis said he was "angry at God for not existing." Do not think yourself wise in a matter you are simply ignorant... you have investigated the arguments of the Atheist and adopted those ideals, but allow yourself to truly seek God as an adult. There is much you don't know.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is entirely false, we all respect your right to believe in irrational nonsense, it is the irrational nonsense itself that is not respected.
  
  That is a perfect example of the irrational nonsense that is not respected, although your right to believe it is respected.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for adding your humble perspective to the debate.
  
  I wish you both well, I will take my leave for now.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God is akin to a unicorn. No one has proof that unicorns exist but there are eyewitness reports and the like claiming that they exist(ed).
  
  Your god did not create math, nor science; they are man's advancements and accomplishments.
  
  Space and time are just man's understanding of the universe, based upon the science we have developed to comprehend it. The existence of space and time themselves are not your god's creation - if it was, why was Earth dominated by dinosaurs and the like millennia before Homo Sapiens were even beginning to scratch livings out of rocks?
  
  Evolution is a fact. There is a lot of evidence supporting it. There is no evidence supporting your god creating the earth other than writing a book. That is not sufficient.
  
  I have read much of the bible, and I am frankly disgusted at a lot of the things it teaches and proclaims happened. It surprises me that many today still believe in these ancient stories over modern science facts;
  
  This where science surpasses religion. If something we believe to be true is proven wrong, the scientific community will accept this and follow the new, factual ideas.
  
  When religion is proved wrong, your defence is "you do not understand my god's plan/work/teachings, just trust in him for the truth".
  
  I haven't risen like cream, I am merely enlightened thanks to modern science and teachings. Many others are in the same boat, but unfortunately religion is still rife as it cleverly indoctrines children at a young age to bring them into the fold. It is a safety net for people to fall back on when they cannot accept the harsh realities of our cruel and unforgiving world.
  
  You say people have experienced 'god' - it's funny, when one lone person has an imaginary friend they are treated as insane. When many claim to have the same imaginary friend, it is treated as a 'religion'. I have hallucinated before, but I know that these are hallucinations and merely figments of my imagination.
  
  I am not ignorant. As I said, I follow modern science and when things are logically proven wrong, I accept that. How is that ignorance? You dispute the existence of aliens because your god said they didn't exist in a book written thousands of years ago, even though modern science has now clearly proven that given the scale of the universe that aliens must exist somewhere.
  
  That, is ignorance. There is much you do not know, as you chose to avoid the truth. I opened myself to god as a child (note that Jesus taught that children were the best disciples, given their open minds and such - again references to child indoctrination) and as a child I found problems with religion and is teachings. I have a hub I've written that details my life growing up in catholic schools, should you wish to read it.
  
  I respect your right to believe what you want, but you continue this discussion with me. I feel obliged to retort when your arguments against me are wrong and rely upon the idea that I need to talk to god to find the truth.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Everything you've said about yourself describes a robot with no intelligence whatsoever.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Again, not sure if you're talking about me or not. This comment layout is confusing at times.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Click the "this" button at the end of the line next to ATM's avatar - you will see that he was replying to Beth37. At least in threaded view; chronological provides the text he is replying to.
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the clarification, and apologies to not replying to your last comment to me; I got caught up in my conversation with Beth.
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Pramath Kantposted 12 years ago
Just because our senses are not that much sophisticated to see ghosts we can't deny their existence not matter how questionable their existence be. You cannot limit your knowledge to tangible objects. Till 17th century no one knew about single cell organism or believed in such a thing. People used to die because of such organism but never understood the cause of death. But after renaissance period period people became aware of its existence and its implications to human body. I am not against your belief but what I am trying to say is don't reject anything outright just because they are outlandish or don't satisfy the conditioning logic. There are several things beyond logic. Science is their to prove relations to what God made and what humans can easily understand. I believe Big Bang occurred but I am more interested in how it happened. Someone had to initiate an explosion. Who was that someone, how did it do that. These questions are similar to the existence of Ghosts and paranormal so it all comes down to your belief. Jesus never said nothing bad will happen. No crime will occur. No calamities will occur. He told us to follow the path of righteousness. I am not Christian but still I know what is written in Bible is not straightforward. It has meaning to it. God has always told things symbolically. Its unto us to understand it wisely for we are the species with most developed brains. Ever religious scripture is written symbolically and now where it is written that nothing bad will happen. It will happen, it is bound to happen you cannot stop it because it is God who casts all this. It is written in Bible, it is written in Quran, it is written in BhagwadGita. So my friend not believing just because you can't see or perceive is not totally correct. You can't see death but it will come. No example is as good as this.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For those who even have an inkling of understanding, ghosts violate physical laws of the universe, hence their existence isn't possible, let alone questionable.
  
  That is a fallacy. Single cell organisms ARE tangible objects, so your point is moot.
  
  Such as...???
  
  Nonsense, science is merely a process for understanding the world around us, it has never found gods nor has ever found any evidence of what gods made.
  
  There is no indication of a "someone" that started the Big Bang. It appears to have come about entirely on it's own, like everything else.
  
  Exactly, they are all just irrational beliefs. Glad you agree.
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  Pramath Kantposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Troubled Man it seems you are really troubled. Is amoeba tangible. Can u hold it, smell it see it with your naked eyes. NO!! you cannot but it is there even in your stomach, my stomach everybody's stomach. It just needs environment to foster. And regarding Science, it explains what is around us. But who created. There should be some force, some energy. There is energy inside everybody which is not tangible but it is there. And it rubbish that Big Bang happened on its own. Can an explosion occur on its own without a detonator. Then how can you believe Big Bang happened on its own. Just because no- one knows about it we cannot negate the question of how it occurred. Rational or irrational beliefs may be but there are certain things which no-one can answer. Either you believe them or you don't it depends upon your perception. But certainly you cannot deny their existence just cause you cannot perceive. I am not saying i don't believe in ghosts or aliens or paranormal activity but I am not denying their existence. If you believe irrational thoughts are useless and have no meaning then just give a thought to this. Who are you, why were you born , what will happen to me when I will die and try to imagine your death and its feeling. These question may seem irrational but to a dying person and person nearing his death these become paramount.
  "Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible, and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in fact, religious." - Albert Einstein.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is there some reason why you began your post with a personal insult?
  
  That is pure nonsense, amoeba are tangible objects, they exist in reality. Being able to smell or hold something in your hands does not only describe what is tangible.
  
  You just contradicted yourself by stating they are not tangible.
  
  There is no "who".
  
  Most likely, there probably was.
  
  Do you even know the definition of 'tangible'? It's about having physical existence.
  
  Yes, it is rubbish for those who don't understand it.
  
  A perfect example of not understanding the Big Bang.
  
  Like everything in the universe, things happen entirely on their own. There is no reason to believe otherwise with the Big Bang.
  
  So what?
  
  That doesn't make it true, though.
  
  The existence of something has nothing to do with my perception.
  
  That's nice.
  
  Strawman argument.
  
  Is there some point to that quote? It doesn't support anything you've said thus far.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You have been insulting to me from the minute you hit "reply" and I wasn't even speaking to you. I was simply responding to a barrage of questions about my faith from someone else.
  
  You can agree to disagree with someone without insulting them, something you just reprimanded Pramath for... be respectful of others.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is not true and you know it. Why are you lying about that?
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Everything you've said about yourself describes a robot with no intelligence whatsoever."
  
  "That is a perfect example of the irrational nonsense that is not respected..."
  
  Maybe I misunderstood, but you certainly come across as disrespectful. Again I assert that you can agree to disagree without insult.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps, I need to repeat myself. I respect your right to believe things, but I don't have to respect the things you believe, which has nothing to do with insults.
  
  Do you understand?
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol... Do I understand? Yes, I believe I can wrap my head around that statement, thanks. Maybe you can comprehend that changing your wording from "your right to believe irrational nonsense" to "your right to believe things" helps a person receive your points without having to withstand your condescension. Once again, I would very much like to exit this conversation as I don't feel that either of you is so much interested in other ppl's perspectives as much as you are interested in the desire to pat yourselves on the backs b/c of your superior intellect. So I will leave you both to it. I wish you both the very best.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry about that.
  
  Do you actually think it's respectful and not condescending to say things like, "He's the creator of math and science and space and time. Your knowledge of these things is incredibly minute..."?
  
  Do you realize how insulting it is to say God created math and science when it was obviously created by people who did a lot of hard work to get there. You insult every one of them with that statement. Is that respectful?
  
  We are not patting ourselves on the back, we are merely pointing out the hypocrisy and irrationality of your posts. That's what happens on forums.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oy, I really hate to go one in endless arguments, but so that Robert doesn't also misunderstand my meaning...
  
  1) I believe God is the creator of those things. That does not in any way reflect in my opinion of Robert. When you say that man created math, and I say that God did, that is the main point of the discussion. I believe one thing, you believe another, however I don't disrespect Robert personally by sharing those opinions, especially as he was the one who asked me several times to enter into the discussion with him in the first place.
  2) When I said his knowledge of these things was minute, I meant as a human compared to that of God's, mine is too... I personally don't know the depths of Rs intellect.
  3) In my opinion, if you ask someone to enter into a discussion, it is a) b/c you are interested in their views or b) you enjoy debate or c) you need someone to take an opposing view so that you have an opening to tout your knowledge. Maybe you both just enjoy debate, I really was getting the c) vibe from you both. I'm sorry if I misunderstood.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, you have an irrational belief that God created math and science while I have a clear understanding that men created math and science through hard word and rigor, no gods were required.
  
  Our knowledge of things surpasses well beyond your God's knowledge of things. There is nothing in the Bible indicating anything about math, science, evolution, etc. These are ideas formed from men, many of which contradict the Bible and your God.
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  Pramath Kantposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Troubled man. I apologize for inflicting insult. Sorry.
  As far as meaning goes tangible means anything which can be touched, but if you still insist that amoeba can be touched then I can't say anything. I am a researcher and i haven't felt amoeba till now. I tried to convince you through my knowledge. But i feel i have inadequate knowledge. Will get back to you when i have more.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So humble... very impressive response Pramath.
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  Pramath Kantposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Beth.. I never intend to hurt anyone but I felt guilty as he felt insulted. But I am enjoying these discussions. It is increasing my horizon.
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  Beth37posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's lovely to meet you.
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  Pramath Kantposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Same here Beth..
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hilarious, so because you don't understand the concept of 'tangible' you assert amoeba's don't exist?
  
  A researcher? In what? Amoeba?
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  Pramath Kantposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When did i say i don't believe in amoeba. What i was trying to say that till 17 century people didn't know amoeba even existed but it does, though one may not feel its existence, just like tress and animals....
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is an argument from incredulity, a fallacy. It is irrelevant to this discussion.
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Gypsy Rose Leeposted 12 years ago
A true believer here. I have a sixth sense and a close contact with the world beyond. Sensitive to even the slightest movement and unusual happening. It's all because my family has had all sorts of paranormal contacts and happenings. I like it this way as it makes me feel so much closer to my loved ones.
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  Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good to see you out and about in the forums Rasma ...
  
  You usually don't say "Boo!"
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A Driveby Quipperposted 12 years ago
Here's proof.

http://youtu.be/QfZItov1BUo
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  RobertSmith92posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  great video, astounding proof of the existence of ghosts. I take back everything I said!
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  A Driveby Quipperposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I thought so. Welcome to reality.
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