Oh thank goodness, this means you'll never have to upgrade a computer of phone ever again!
So how are we puppets again? Assuming there is no free will and it is all there (I tend to agree with all there only in the sense that 'it' is already there) how are we puppets? Is there a puppeteer?
No, not getting it. You might have to spell it out?
I would agree, you made a fair question. She needs to spell it out.
I agree with Emile.
Of my own free will I doth post this.
Your genes were programmed so that you would react this way given this exact stimuli.
She did actually make a choice, just the same choice she would have made everything all things being the same.
The Universe. Or God. Whatever you want to call it.
Genetics are programmed for survival my nature. Survival of the fittest does not me the most psychologically balanced.
So "nature" has intelligence, or does this sort of programming, (that of genes), not require any?
Are you dissin' my psychological state?
Well, I've been thinkin' about the idea that I was programmed to respond as I did.
But what I can tell you is this---------I was wooed. I used the free will that God gave me, but He wooed me toward the way I live and think today. After all, when someone Loves you so much that He lays down His life for you, and especially when that person is the most powerful and awesome Being ever in existence, it makes it really appealing to respond to Him favorably.
The Word said that if Jesus was crucified, He would draw all men (all mankind) to Him. I am no exception. The only thing that sets me apart is that I'm one of those who desired to Love Him also and respond to His wooing. That's still free will. So....I wouldn't call it being programmed. I call it being under His grace. I love Him because He first Loved me.
Nope, it's not necessarily in my genes. Unless ya wanna count the "genes" received as I became born-again! Then, yes, I became a "new creature" in Christ. hahaaa perhaps a form of volunteer "cloning"..!!! hhhaaa joke.
Or, you love him because that's a relationship you need. The mind is an amazing thing and can create a simulation in your mind that it thinks it's true to help you survive. This loving relationship only exists in your mind. Some may need this relationship, some may have been talking into this relationship and some like me may not need this relationship so, when I realized I don't need it at 12 or 13 it went away. There is no doubt that if I were to play my life over again and if everything happened exactly as it did precisely, I'd have made the same decisions as would you.
So, what are we all now? Psychologists?
I'm not saying I understand the whole wooed defense (I couldn't help laughing while reading it, so I obviously don't understand it); but come on. How do you know she loves him because it is a relationship she needs? How do you know she has created a simulation in her mind that makes her think she needs this to help her survive?
Bully for you that, at 12-13 your perceived needs went away. Although that whole line is a little murky in itself. What needs? Either way, maybe (just maybe) your reality isn't hers? Or anyone elses? Your perceived bolt for independence may, or may not, be played out by someone else living in your shoes. Or, are you saying that you only make perfect decisions and everyone, given the same circumstances and information will make the same decisions? Do you have any research to back up such a bold claim?
Ever wonder why God is different for everyone? I just explained it in the forum Reasons to Believe. These are of course just my thoughts based on psychology.
I'm just trying to understand because it's fascinates me. I'm not claiming I'm perfect and make perfect decisions, I just said that in a sense free will is a necessary illusion. Yes we make the decision, but given the circumstances an individual will make that decision at that time, with all factors being the same, the same every time. I'm sure I'm not properly articulating this, but I'm trying anyway. I'm certainly not saying decisions are better for anyone else, they are just the best for me as yours are the best for you.
While I agree that only we can make decisions for ourselves, I wouldn't agree that we would always make the same decisions, given the same set of circumstances. Each moment in time is unique. Too many variables involved to make such a broad claim. Although, I suppose it could be argued that somewhere in the multiverse there would be a split of you who did.
What I mean is if we had to make the decision over again in the same time and the same circumstances we would make the same choices. If we could replay a decision without knowing what decision we made.
I knew that. I still say there is no guarantee. Although, many decisions would be the same; many decisions can easily go one way or the other. Some decisions are damned if you do, damned if you don't. You flip a coin. Some decisions rack your nerves because whichever way you go someone gets hurt.
Many decisions are a series of decisions. No one decision changes your life. Each choice made moves you further and further into a new direction. A variation in one will completely alter the end result.
There's nothing new
Under the sun
It's all been said
It's all been done
I cut my strings
So I'd be free
To find the puppeteer...was me...
Very interesting. I checked in out of curiousity and am very glad I did.
Free will is lacking at two critical points in your life - the time of your birth and the time of your death.
Not here to debate it is just an observation.
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