Do souls exist before conception? This is an important issue
Our choice to believe that they do OR don’t exist before conception directly affects the way in which we understand everything about scripture. If they existed before conception ??? Or Not determines our entire outlook and understanding of scripture. .
How many verses are there in the bible that would support the preexistence of our souls?
In the beginning God said Let US make man in our image (Us and our being me and you )
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you...
In Genesis the sons of God fell (came down) to the earth. And later Jesus said that we are ALL sons of God.
I may be wrong but I like the idea that our souls existed before we took these bodies upon ourselves. And when we put them down we go back to where we came from. For me, this concept puts many, many questions to rest.
Could you try this just for the sake of discussion ..?.. "IF" souls did exist; is it easier to imagine that they just come into existence at the moment of conception Or that when a physical body becomes avaliable a soul enters into it?
Just for the sake of discussion.
If leprechauns exist, if unicorns exist, if gods exist, if souls exist...
Reality just doesn't cut it for you, eh?
OK,let's pretend.Considering the universe contains all of existence[a closed system],whatever information required to compose a soul must already be hear...aint no place else To be.
The real question would be;At what point does it become self aware?
The same question applies to life after death;If anything survives death,is it self aware?...cause if it aint well,nothing else matters.
First rule of existence in metaphysics;First the observer,then the observed...If your not self aware,you cant be aware of anything else.That's why [ I ] is such an Important word.
Very good questions ... It seems to me that some of us become self aware much sooner than others do.
I'm not sure If I am 100% self aware even after 64 years after being concieved. I know a couple of people whom I think hasn't started yet.
After death?? I hope I become aware of who I was before conception; but if not ? Being self aware of who I was after conception will also be much apreciated, I think???
I also think that I AM being observer while observeing.
And there are some colors that I am colorblind to.
Trouble does that mean you don't have a soul then. lol
Yes. Life did not began with Adam and Eve. Life began in bodies without flesh call the heavenly host. They are spiritual celestial bodies of supernatural existence. I am a witness as to their existence.AND not only without the physical body,but also in our terrestrial body as well. The heart nor the brain can speak,have intellect,nor have personality.It is a matter of our spirit within the flesh that show this existence.
I believe you have seen these ... and even if you had a camera at the time, it wouldn't have helped you prove you saw it. The paranormal can not be proven with normal means.Even when proof is given skeptics will always attempt to discredit that proof saying "don't know how it was done , but I know it was faked"
Back to the OP. what ever form our soul or spirit might take after death, did this condition exist BEFORE we spent this life in this physical form? I believe our belief on this matter affects ALL of our beliefs concerning that which we read from the bible. Two entirely different stories will be seen dependent entirely upon how we precieve this simple question. It makes all the difference in the world.
So, you don't see that your words have contradicted themselves?
There's no way Jack could have witnessed anything of the sort because witnessing those things are indeed from "the normal means", ie; our eyes. Hence, if our eyes can see something, so could a camera.
If it's so easy for Jack to witness those things, surely we can all witness them, too. Scientists would have an easy task of verifying them.
You seem to have complete "Faith" in science even though scientists are also divided on many issues. One scientist makes an assertion while another may disagree. You choose which one to believe while believing the other to be nonsence.
You must be very blessed for having proper discernment. Bless you brother and keep your "Faith"
LOL. Funny how no matter how many times it is explained that we have no "Faith" whatsoever in anything, believers continue to espouse it whenever they can. It shows that believers are only able to operate on beliefs systems and not reason or rationale.
Sorry Jerami, but I doubt I can take anything seriously from you when it comes to science.
So You are saying that you don't have faith in science !
A Troubled Manposted
Sorry Jerami, but I doubt I can take anything seriously from you when it comes to science.
= - = - =
That doesn't suprise me seeing how you don't have faith in "ANYTHING'
Do you have faith in yourself.
Do you see how self contradicting you are? If you don't have faith in yourself OR science; Why do you keep on trying to sell it.
I have understanding, not faith. Do you know the difference?
Again, believers operate on faith, not understanding. Do you know the difference?
So you are saying that you do not have faith in the fact that you have understanding.
I can see where your understanding has no support other than that you think that you have understanding.
You think it therefore it is.
Now I understand where you are coming from. the same place we all are. You are just as special as the rest of us. Do you understand that ?
Why would I need faith when I have understanding, instead?
That's merely your conclusion based on the fact you operate on a belief system and not understanding.
Sorry, but I don't operate on belief systems, Jerami. And, I am not special, neither are you.
May i intervene as to say that it is not faith alone that Christians life by.Faith without works is dead. To perform is to experience what what is beyond faith,which is proof and evidence that your faith is not for naught.
Faith is only a step up the ladder.Like believing...is only the first step to salvation contrary to popular belief that all you have to do is believe in order to be salved.They didn't read the rest of it...ye must be born again. That is a process and not just a belief. Be bless.
You have heard the term"seeing is believing" ,it is sound evidence beyond words and books of written knowledge. The knowledge that is brought forth therein is herewith presented.
I think there's a pattern developing here, it appears the more one is steeped in their faith and knows so little about the world around them are they witness to the invisible and undetectable.
If you didn't have faith in something, wouldn't you be hopeless, and depressed.
Sure, if you never had the capacity or ability to think.
You need to hold onto faith because otherwise you'd be hopeless and depressed and you can't understand why everyone is not the same? I appears the problem with faith is it stunts moral, ethical and emotional growth.
I like that idea as well, I also like the idea of life after death and winning the lottery, but just because I like those ideas doesn't make the anything but idea's.
You have no memory of the passage of time before you were born and it will be the same after you die.
Ideas are a good thing to have. I hope some of my ideas do come to pass. Some of them have! Why others haven't ... I'll never know.
There is only one thing that I know for sure .. that is that I know nothing else for sure.
Ideas and beliefs are all that we have that can put a smile on our faces.
I gotta go now and take care of some bussiness. back in a little while.
perhaps it would be more accurate to say "we have no awareness of the passage of time before you were born" and "it may be the same after you die."
Has it never occurred to anyone here that possibly we are actually spirit beings temporarily entrapped in a physical form, whilst we develop separated from our spiritual selves, until we either learn to rejoin our spiritual entity with the physical form, or die without achieving that reunion?
No, that has never occurred to me. Mostly because it simply wishful thinking and at complete contrast to what knowledge we have reality. Has that ever occurred to you?
"it(s) simply wishful thinking and at complete contrast to what knowledge we have reality."
Just because many peoples reality may be limited to what they can see, hear, feel, taste and touch, does not mean that they are the arbiters of all that is reality.
We live surrounded by spiritual forces, when you realise that, then perceptions change and awareness can blossom.
Show me evidence that we live surrounded by spiritual forces. Because it seems to me that if you realize we are surrounded by spiritual forces, you are loosing touch with reality. We have medication for people who hear and see things that other don't.
Thus saith the fish in the fish bowl ... "there is no such thing as an ocean or a giant shark, or I would have seen it"
Maybe there is an ocean and a giant shark beyond the scope of our perception, but that doesn't mean that we are to just make things up(without ever seeing them)then wish that they are true.
And the fish in a small murky pond think the pond was made just for them.
And in that fishes mind it is reality until it is eaten by a shark.
Reality is the arbiter of reality.
Reality does not support your beliefs.
That possibility is as valid as leprechauns riding unicorns.
I have never ever thought anything differently. My spirit is traped within this vessel which I have abused for almost 64 years. While inside I am as energetic as I have ever been. Wish I could step into a newer model today.
See? Your beliefs are based on wishing.
My spirit was trapped inside my body too, but it escaped. And since there is no way that scientific instruments can detect it, I just don't know where to find it. Maybe I should comb Iceland or the Himalayans....or maybe it's been right inside my refrigerator the whole time. Those #$%#& spirits.
I believe we do have a soul, and I do believe we have specific purposes on this earth, even if it is to be a spiritual person, agnositic, christian, etc. I believe without a soul, you would be an empty vessel, maybe perhaps being a mindless creature remotely controlled like a robot without any thoughts of your own or purpose in life. Nothingness...
So of course I believe there is a soul, mind is your thoughts, but the soul and heart drives you to do what you feel is your true self, and essence of being a creature unlike any other, maybe our own imprint or or being a snow flake.
That is nonsense and merely an argument from ignorance and indoctrination.
Baloney, that's all part and parcel of the brain.
In other words your soul is your essence on this planet, perhaps your own voice echoing it's own reflections of its existence in the world as we know it.
I think you're saying the soul is your emotions? Emotions are chemical reactions in the brain. Can you please explain exactly what this soul does?
Switch 'soul' for 'spirit' and I am understanding you.
In my thinking the soul (ego) is an operating system installed to allow us to function, and is as disposable as that, no soul before birth, redundant after death.
IMO we come from spirit, and return to spirit form, the rest of the vehicle that takes us through soul school is discarded when we return home.
Thanks aguasilver for your answer. I think I follow and agree.
(good nite yawl)
Yet, neither have been shown to exist. How can one non-existent entity be more understandable than another?
Sorry, but the (ego) is not the soul.
I agree. The ego is one of the emotions of our spirits.The soul refer to the good and evil conduct and behavior of the spiritual Image of our spiritual celestial bodies call....... personality. In spirituality they are call spiritualristics
which is translated as characteristics to humankind.
So, why don't you follow those words and have a good look at reality?
If what you previeve to be reality was all that I wanted to see I'd be depriving myself of SOooo SOo much more that I may as well poke my eys out CAUSE we can see more than that through thought alone.
Don't you know that we can see far more in our minds than we ever will through our eye balls alone.
You must be confused. Our minds are for thinking and processing, while are eyes send images to our brains. Without the eye's we are blind. This unfortunately has been demonstrated many times.
I beg to differ. The brain and the mind is the same thing ,and the heart pump blood and they are fundamental constituents of matter.
The spiritual celestial existence of our bodies have , electric activity ,intelligence,personality.and communication.
The function of the brain is to supply cells,atoms,elements,and ions to the physical body,and the heart can only pump blood.
So lets be real....walls do not talk.Neither does the brain nor the heart.
It is the spirit that is within the flesh. If not for the electric activity of the spirit that is generated from our spirits,which causes the heart to beat ,the physical body wound fall dead.
This knowledge is taken from experience, so it is already proven.
You said a mouth full my friend. There are none so blind,as those that refuse to see.
Thanks ... And there are none so deaf than those with their fingers stuck in their ears
Hilarious. It is you believers who walk around with your fingers stuck in your ears, eyes closed and mouth going na na na na na whenever reality is placed in front of you.
If a man want to dig a ditch with a pitch fork ,without taking heed,you will have to wait util it play itself out. And then tell him again about trying a shovel. Sometime it is the smallest things that is the most plain to see.
Like REALITY, for instance. Plain and simple, but believers would rather go on digging with a pitch fork.
As long as the man with the pitchfork sees himself wise because after all, digging with a pitchfork is lighter work, he will never get tired. And the hole he is digging will never get too deep that he can not continue digging, and the dirt will never fall back in his face. .... while the fool with the shovel will get a dirty face.
The moral of the story is ,you will never get the hole dug in the first place ,trying to do it with a pitch fork. Its like trying to paint a house with a tooth pick.
Except the Lord build the house,they labor in vain that build it. And except the lord keep the city,the watchman walketh but in vain.
If the shoe fits you should wear it. ... or like a fruitcake recieved for a christmas present ... pass it on to someone else. They will love it as much as you did,
That's simply untrue. Death people here nothing while you here plenty with you fingers in your ears.
So, tell us Jack, why do you refuse to see reality?
It is very simple,all things are not real. I take it as it come, and call it like i see it. I have seen what is real that exist beyond common knowledge which lets me know beyond maybe's.......i think so..... and the" IF" sort of a thing.
And so...... i am a witness.
My 2-cents worth...
Q: "Does the "soul" exist before conception?"
A: The probability of this hypothesis is not zero. And that applies to both before conception and after death. The possibility does indeed exist that we are entities that inhabit our bodies. The possibility also exists that we are not. One thing is for sure. We all eventually find out. Or not. I'm willing to wait for the answer. After all, that seems to be the only option anyway...
There is a process to all that exist. One never look for the flower before the bud,and never look for the bud before the sprout...etc. You will surely see what you have not seen before. God will make Himself known in many ways to the spirits of humankind. The reason i know is because i have experience in the matter and is made a witness. Yes to the question,before and after.
Now I know why I have been avoiding the forums, someone posts a perfectly valid question (Jerami) and then a couple of folk come along and fill the page with inanities.
Thank you aqua.
I really do think that this is a very important question that every Christian should ask themselves, However we answer the question will change our understanding of scriptures.and our outlook on everything contained within. As different as black and white though most haven't given it a thought. Or don't think it matters.
Of course there is a soul before conception. I wonder if things are planned out before we come here. Maybe souls actually figure out who is going to be born and when. One thing that is true is that God thought we were wonderful and loved us as he created us (Our souls). There is no death. We can go back to our Father.... until then... many lifetimes....
I’ve always gotten the impression “In Church” that the soul is created at the moment of conception. I’ve been taught many things (interpretations) by the church that simply isn’t what is written in the bible. After many years of un-interpreting prophesy, I have come to the final conclusion that our souls were in existence long before conception, and was wondering if the process can begin with this thought and THEN proceed reexamining scripture to come to some of the same conclusions which I started with. Having the same thought processes in reverse.
Hope this makes sense cause I’m writing this after waking after two hours of sleep and not sure how awake I am right now (2:45AM) and am going back to bed..
Sounds very New Age Kathryn. Not sure the evangelicals will agree with you.
There are no souls. Look at an ant, think of splatting one on the floor and then think about it having a 'soul'. Utter ridiculous.
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