do souls exist before conception

1. 59

   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   Do souls exist before conception?                                              This is an important issue
   Our choice to believe that they do OR don’t exist before conception directly affects the way in which we understand everything about scripture.   If they existed before conception ??? Or Not determines our entire outlook and understanding of scripture. .
   How many verses are there in the bible that would support the preexistence of our souls?
   In the beginning God said Let US make man in our image  (Us and our being me and you )
   Jeremiah 1:5  Before I formed you in the womb I knew you...
   In Genesis the sons of God fell (came down) to the earth.  And later Jesus said that we are ALL sons of God.   
   I may be wrong but I like the idea that our souls existed before we took these bodies upon ourselves. And when we put them down we go back to where we came from.  For me, this concept puts many, many questions to rest.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No one has ever shown souls to exist.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Could you try this just for the sake of discussion ..?..   "IF" souls did exist; is it easier to imagine that they just come into existence at the moment of conception  Or that when a physical body becomes avaliable a soul enters into it?
           Just for the sake of discussion.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Techstuffposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            What happens to souls in Zombies?

            replyreport
         2. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            If leprechauns exist, if unicorns exist, if gods exist, if souls exist...
            
            Reality just doesn't cut it for you, eh?

            replyreport
            1. 59

               Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you for expressing yourself so intelectually.
               
                  I've seen the light.

               replyreport
         3. 75

            cheaptrickposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            OK,let's pretend.Considering the universe contains all of existence[a closed system],whatever information required to compose a soul must already be hear...aint no place else To be.
            The real question would be;At what point does it become self aware?
            The same question applies to life after death;If anything survives death,is it self aware?...cause if it aint well,nothing else matters.
            First rule of existence in metaphysics;First the observer,then the observed...If your not self aware,you cant be aware of anything else.That's why [ I ] is such an Important word.

            replyreport
            1. 59

               Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Very good questions ...   It seems to me that some of us become self aware much sooner than others do.
               I'm not sure If I am 100% self aware even after 64 years after being concieved.  I know a couple of people whom I think hasn't started yet.
               
               After death??  I hope I become aware of who I was before conception; but if not ?   Being self aware of who I was after conception will also be much apreciated, I think???
               
               I also think that I AM being observer while observeing.
               And there are some colors that I am colorblind to.

               replyreport
      2. 59

         HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Trouble does that mean you don't have a soul then. lol

         replyreport
         1. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Evidently, no one does.

            replyreport
   2. 59

      Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. Life did not began with Adam and Eve. Life began in bodies without flesh call the heavenly host. They are spiritual celestial bodies of supernatural existence. I am a witness as to their existence.AND not only without the physical body,but also in our terrestrial body as well. The heart nor the brain can speak,have intellect,nor have personality.It is a matter of our spirit within the flesh that show this existence.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I believe you have seen these ...  and even if you had a camera at the time, it wouldn't have helped you prove you saw it.  The paranormal can not be proven with normal means.Even when proof is given skeptics will always attempt to discredit that proof saying "don't know how it was done , but I know it was faked"
         
         Back to the OP.  what ever form our soul or spirit might take after death, did this condition exist BEFORE we spent this life in this physical form?  I believe our belief on this matter affects ALL of our beliefs concerning that which we read from the bible.  Two entirely different stories will be seen dependent entirely upon how we precieve this simple question.  It makes all the difference in the world.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            So, you don't see that your words have contradicted themselves?
            
            There's no way Jack could have witnessed anything of the sort because witnessing those things are indeed from "the normal means", ie; our eyes. Hence, if our eyes can see something, so could a camera.
            
            
            
            If it's so easy for Jack to witness those things, surely we can all witness them, too. Scientists would have an easy task of verifying them.

            replyreport
            1. 59

               Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You seem to have complete "Faith" in science even though scientists are also divided on many issues. One scientist makes an assertion while another may disagree.  You choose which one to believe while believing the other to be nonsence.
               You must be very blessed for having proper discernment.   Bless you brother and keep your "Faith"

               replyreport
               1. 59

                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL. Funny how no matter how many times it is explained that we have no "Faith" whatsoever in anything, believers continue to espouse it whenever they can. It shows that believers are only able to operate on beliefs systems and not reason or rationale.
                  
                  
                  
                  Sorry Jerami, but I doubt I can take anything seriously from you when it comes to science.

                  replyreport
                  1. 59

                     Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     So You are saying that you don't have faith in science !
                     
                     A Troubled Manposted
                     Sorry Jerami, but I doubt I can take anything seriously from you when it comes to science.
                     = - = - =
                     That doesn't suprise me seeing how you don't have faith in "ANYTHING'
                     
                        Do you have faith in yourself.
                     Do you see how self contradicting you are?    If you don't have faith in yourself OR science; Why do you keep on trying to sell it.

                     replyreport
                     1. 59

                        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I have understanding, not faith. Do you know the difference?
                        
                           
                        
                        Again, believers operate on faith, not understanding. Do you know the difference?

                        replyreport
                        1. 59

                           Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           So you are saying that you do not have faith in the fact that you have understanding.
                           I can see where your understanding has no support other than that you think that you have understanding.
                           You think it therefore it is.
                           Now I understand where you are coming from.    the same place we all are.      You are just as special as the rest of us.   Do you understand that ?

                           replyreport
                           1. 59

                              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Why would I need faith when I have understanding, instead?
                              
                              
                              
                              That's merely your conclusion based on the fact you operate on a belief system and not understanding.
                              
                              
                              
                              Sorry, but I don't operate on belief systems, Jerami. And, I am not special, neither are you.

                              replyreport
                        2. 59

                           Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           May i intervene as to say that it is not faith alone that Christians life by.Faith without works is dead. To perform is to experience what what is beyond faith,which is proof and evidence that your faith is not for naught.
                           Faith is only a step up the ladder.Like believing...is only the first step to salvation contrary to popular belief that all you have to do is believe in order to be salved.They didn't read the rest of it...ye must be born again. That is a process and not just a belief. Be bless.

                           replyreport
                           1. 59

                              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Baloney. Faith is irrelevant.
                              
                              
                              
                              LOL. Faith is a descent into ignorance.

                              replyreport
            2. 59

               Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You have heard the term"seeing is believing" ,it is sound evidence beyond words and books of written knowledge. The knowledge that is brought forth therein is herewith presented.

               replyreport
      2. 59

         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think there's a pattern developing here, it appears the more one is steeped in their faith and knows so little about the world around them are they witness to the invisible and undetectable.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            If you didn't have faith in something, wouldn't you be hopeless, and depressed.

            replyreport
            1. 59

               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Sure, if you never had the capacity or ability to think.

               replyreport
            2. 0

               Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You need to hold onto faith because otherwise you'd be hopeless and depressed and you can't understand why everyone is not the same? I appears the problem with faith is it stunts moral, ethical and emotional growth.

               replyreport
   3. 0

      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I like that idea as well, I also like the idea of life after death and winning the lottery, but just because I like those ideas doesn't make the anything but idea's.
      
      You have no memory of the passage of time before you were born and it will be the same after you die.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Ideas are a good thing to have.   I hope some of my ideas do come to pass. Some of them have! Why others haven't ...  I'll never know.
           There is only one thing that I know for sure .. that is that I know nothing else for sure.
         
             Ideas and beliefs are all that we have that can put a smile on our faces. 
         I gotta go now and take care of some bussiness.  back in a little while.

         replyreport
      2. 76

         aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         perhaps it would be more accurate to say "we have no awareness of the passage of time before you were born" and "it may be the same after you die."
         
         Has it never occurred to anyone here that possibly we are actually spirit beings temporarily entrapped in a physical form, whilst we develop separated from our spiritual selves, until we either learn to rejoin our spiritual entity with the physical form, or die without achieving that reunion?

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No, that has never occurred to me. Mostly because it simply wishful thinking and at complete contrast to what knowledge we have reality. Has that ever occurred to you?

            replyreport
            1. 76

               aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               "it(s) simply wishful thinking and at complete contrast to what knowledge we have reality."
               
               Just because many peoples reality may be limited to what they can see, hear, feel, taste and touch, does not mean that they are the arbiters of all that is reality.
               
               We live surrounded by spiritual forces, when you realise that, then perceptions change and awareness can blossom.

               replyreport
               1. 0

                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Show me evidence that we live surrounded by spiritual forces. Because it seems to me that if you realize we are surrounded by spiritual forces, you are loosing touch with reality. We have medication for people who hear and see things that other don't.

                  replyreport
                  1. 59

                     Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Thus saith the fish in the fish bowl ...   "there is no such thing as an ocean or a giant shark, or I would have seen it"

                     replyreport
                     1. 71

                        getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Maybe there is an ocean and a giant shark beyond the scope of our perception, but that doesn't mean that we are to just make things up(without ever seeing them)then wish that they are true.

                        replyreport
                     2. 0

                        Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        And the fish in a small murky pond think the pond was made just for them.

                        replyreport
                        1. 59

                           Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           And in that fishes mind it is reality until it is eaten by a shark.

                           replyreport
                           1. 0

                              Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              There's a shark in a pond?

                              replyreport
                              1. 59

                                 Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 YEP !!  there is always a shark in the pond whether we know it is there or not!
                                 
                                     Are YOU a shark ??

                                 replyreport
               2. 59

                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Reality is the arbiter of reality.
                  
                  
                  
                  Reality does not support your beliefs.

                  replyreport
         2. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That possibility is as valid as leprechauns riding unicorns.

            replyreport
         3. 59

            Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I have never ever thought anything differently.  My spirit is traped within this vessel which I have abused for almost 64 years. While inside I am as energetic as I have ever been.  Wish I could step into a newer model today.

            replyreport
            1. 59

               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               See? Your beliefs are based on wishing.

               replyreport
            2. 71

               getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               My spirit was trapped inside my body too, but it escaped.  And since there is no way that scientific instruments can detect it, I just don't know where to find it.   Maybe I should comb Iceland or the Himalayans....or maybe it's been right inside my refrigerator the whole time.  Those #$%#& spirits.

               replyreport
   4. 59

      HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I believe we do have a soul, and I do believe we have specific purposes on this earth, even if it is to be a spiritual person, agnositic, christian, etc. I believe without a soul, you would be an empty vessel, maybe perhaps being a mindless creature remotely controlled like a robot without any thoughts of your own or purpose in life.  Nothingness...
      So of course I believe there is a soul, mind is your thoughts, but the soul and heart drives you to do what you feel is your true self, and essence of being a creature unlike any other, maybe our own imprint or or being a snow flake.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That is nonsense and merely an argument from ignorance and indoctrination.
         
         
         
         Baloney, that's all part and parcel of the brain.

         replyreport
      2. 59

         HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         In other words your soul is your essence on this planet, perhaps your own voice echoing it's own reflections of its existence in the world as we know it.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            And, this "essence" is what exactly?

            replyreport
         2. 59

            Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with  A l l m o s tttt    everything  you've said in   all    of your post.on this thread.

            replyreport
      3. 0

         Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think you're saying the soul is your emotions? Emotions are chemical reactions in the brain. Can you please explain exactly what this soul does?

         replyreport
2. 76

   aguasilverposted 12 years ago

   Switch 'soul' for 'spirit' and I am understanding you.
   
   In my thinking the soul (ego) is an operating system installed to allow us to function, and is as disposable as that, no soul before birth, redundant after death.
   
   IMO we come from spirit, and return to spirit form, the rest of the vehicle that takes us through soul school is discarded when we return home.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks aguasilver for your answer. I think I follow and agree. 
      (good nite yawl)

      replyreport
   2. 59

      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yet, neither have been shown to exist. How can one non-existent entity be more understandable than another?
      
      
      
      Sorry, but the (ego) is not the soul.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I agree. The ego is one of the emotions of our spirits.The soul refer to the good and evil conduct and behavior of the spiritual Image of our spiritual celestial bodies call....... personality. In spirituality they are call spiritualristics
         which is translated as characteristics to humankind.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No, it isn't.
            
            
            
            Gibberish.

            replyreport
3. 59

   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   There are none so blind as he who refuses to see.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So, why don't you follow those words and have a good look at reality?

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         If what you previeve to be reality was all that I wanted to see I'd be depriving myself of SOooo SOo much more that I may as well poke my eys out  CAUSE we can see more than that through thought alone.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That is pure nonsense.

            replyreport
      2. 59

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Don't you know that we can see far more in our minds than we ever will through our eye balls alone.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            So what?

            replyreport
            1. 59

               Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               If you don't know the answer to your question (If that was a question ?)
               Then I can't help you untill you think that you are ready to hear.

               replyreport
         2. 0

            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You must be confused. Our minds are for thinking and processing, while are eyes send images to our brains. Without the eye's we are blind. This unfortunately has been demonstrated many times.

            replyreport
            1. 59

               Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I beg to differ. The brain and the mind is the same thing ,and the heart pump blood and they are fundamental constituents of matter.
               The spiritual celestial existence of our bodies have , electric activity ,intelligence,personality.and communication.
               The function of the brain is to supply cells,atoms,elements,and ions to the physical body,and the heart  can only pump blood.
               So lets be real....walls do not talk.Neither does the brain nor the heart.
               
               It is the spirit that is within the flesh. If not for the electric activity of the spirit that is generated from our spirits,which causes the heart to beat ,the physical body wound fall dead.
               This knowledge is taken from experience, so it is already proven.

               replyreport
   2. 59

      Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You said a mouth full my friend. There are none so blind,as those that refuse to see.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks ...  And there are none so deaf than those with their fingers stuck in their ears

         replyreport
         1. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Hilarious. It is you believers who walk around with your fingers stuck in your ears, eyes closed and mouth going na na na na na whenever reality is placed in front of you.

            replyreport
         2. 59

            Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            If a man want to dig a ditch with a pitch fork ,without taking heed,you will have to wait util it play itself out. And then tell him again about trying a shovel. Sometime it is the smallest things that is the most  plain to see.

            replyreport
            1. 71

               getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Like REALITY, for instance.  Plain and simple, but believers would rather go on digging with a pitch fork.

               replyreport
            2. 59

               Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               As long as the man with the pitchfork sees himself wise because after all, digging with a pitchfork is lighter work, he will never get tired.  And the hole he is digging will never get too deep that he can not continue digging, and the dirt will never fall back in his face. ....   while the fool with the shovel will get a dirty face.

               replyreport
               1. 59

                  Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  The moral of the story is ,you will never get the hole dug in the first place ,trying to do it with a pitch fork. Its like trying to paint a house with a tooth pick.
                  
                  Except the Lord build the house,they labor in  vain that build it. And except the lord keep the city,the watchman walketh but in vain.

                  replyreport
            3. 59

               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Only a complete moron would do that.

               replyreport
               1. 59

                  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  If the shoe fits you should wear it.    ...  or like a fruitcake recieved for a christmas present ...  pass it on to someone else.   They will love it as much as you did,

                  replyreport
                  1. 59

                     A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Why?  I wouldn't dig a hole with a pitchfork. Is that what you would do?

                     replyreport
               2. 0

                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Interesting they think it wise.

                  replyreport
         3. 0

            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That's simply untrue. Death people here nothing while you here plenty with you fingers in your ears.

            replyreport
      2. 59

         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         So, tell us Jack, why do you refuse to see reality?

         replyreport
         1. 59

            Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It is very simple,all things are not real. I take it as it come, and call it like i see it. I have seen what is real that exist beyond common knowledge which lets me know beyond maybe's.......i think so..... and the" IF" sort of a thing.
            And so...... i am a witness.

            replyreport
            1. 59

               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Sure, when it comes to religious beliefs. Reality and everything in it is real.
               
               
               
               

               replyreport
   3. 0

      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      reality?

      replyreport
4. 59

   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   My 2-cents worth...
   
   Q: "Does the "soul" exist before conception?"
   
   A: The probability of this hypothesis is not zero. And that applies to both before conception and after death. The possibility does indeed exist that we are entities that inhabit our bodies. The possibility also exists that we are not. One thing is for sure. We all eventually find out. Or not. I'm willing to wait for the answer. After all, that seems to be the only option anyway...

   replyreport
   1. 59

      Apostle Jackposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There is a process to all that exist. One never look for the flower before the bud,and never look for the bud before the sprout...etc.  You will surely see what you have not seen before. God will make Himself known in many ways to the spirits of humankind. The reason i know is because i have experience in the  matter and is made a witness. Yes to the question,before and after.

      replyreport
5. 76

   aguasilverposted 12 years ago

   Now I know why I have been avoiding the forums, someone posts a perfectly valid question (Jerami) and then a couple of folk come along and fill the page with inanities.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you aqua.
      I really do think that this is a very important question that every Christian should ask themselves, However we answer the question will change our understanding of scriptures.and our outlook on everything contained within. As different as black and white though most haven't given it a thought. Or don't think it matters.

      replyreport
      1. 81

         Kathryn L Hillposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Of course there is a soul before conception.   I wonder if things are planned out before we come here.  Maybe souls actually figure out who is going to be born and when. One thing that is true is that God thought we were wonderful and loved us as he created us (Our souls). There is no death. We can go back to our Father.... until then... many lifetimes....
         TWISI

         replyreport
         1. 59

            Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I’ve always gotten the impression “In Church” that the soul is created at the moment of conception.      I’ve been taught many things (interpretations) by the church that simply isn’t what is written in the bible. After many years of un-interpreting prophesy, I have come to the final conclusion that our souls were in existence long before conception, and was wondering if the process can begin with this thought and THEN proceed reexamining scripture to come to some of the same conclusions which I started with. Having the same thought processes in reverse.
            Hope this makes sense cause I’m writing this after waking after two hours of sleep and not sure how awake I am right now (2:45AM) and am going back to bed..

            replyreport
         2. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            And, you know this how?

            replyreport
         3. 60

            Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sounds very New Age Kathryn. Not sure the evangelicals will agree with you.

            replyreport
6. 59

   Lauren Amy Smithposted 12 years ago

   There are no souls. Look at an ant, think of splatting one on the floor and then think about it having a 'soul'. Utter ridiculous.

   replyreport