Did God's grace exist before the fall of man?

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   graceinusposted 11 years ago

   Did God's grace exist before the fall of man?
   
   As christians we are fully aware that God and our Lord Jesus Christ are full of grace. However, did God creat His grace because of the fall of man. Before the fall of Adam and Eve, mankind was made perfect and therefore grace from God towards man was not an issue. So, did God always have Grace?

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   A K Turnerposted 11 years ago

   I think that God's grace is a characteristic of God, that is. He name is "I am who I am." Therefore his grace is simply a part of who he is. it says I am the lord I do not change. Therefore every characteristic of God is eternal. However without the fall of man, we would never have known about the grace of God. It is the only good thing to come out of the fall. We now have a deeper comprehension of how much God loves us. .

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      A K Turner- Thank you very much for your answer. And God bless

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      amen

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   JamesBenjaminJrMDposted 11 years ago

   Grace.  Yes. I first wrote "Grace."  Then I wrote "Yes."  Then I received in bold red letters : "YOUR ANSWER IS TO SHORT.  PLEASE MAKE IT LONGER."   I have now complied.  Great question  : "Did God's grace exist before the fall of man?"  There are additional questions that are generated : What is the definition of grace?   What is the fall of man?

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      James- Thanks for your answer. You're right, one can draw many questions out of one. And there are answers for the one's you asked. Again thanks.

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   HIShubsposted 11 years ago

   Yes it did. Wherever God is, there is his love, mercy, power, and grace. God cannot be separated from His traits. Unfortunately for the angels who rebelled, they weren't accorded the grace. It was reserved for humans. What was grace for prior to man's creation, then? To create provisions for him which he would discover in nature and the universe..

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      HIShubs- I thank you for your answer. I would be interested to know which bible verses support your answer? Some things you have mentioned I have not heard before. Many thanks.

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      But aren't we the angels who rebelled? The separation because of ego was the forbidden fruit. All evil comes from ego. And human bodies were needed to give us temporary consciousness for the rescue.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      LS-how is that possible since scripture clearly says that they are "bound in chains of darkness untill the judgement , 2x.  And the scriptures are clear man was created as man.   Angels are not men and men are not angels.

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, Celafoe. And we are bound in chains of ego until judgment. We were originally created as spirit in the image of God. Angels are spirit. Fallen angels, Nephilim, ate the forbidden fruit, requiring humans be created to aid in the rescue.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      ls-  what unscriptural foolishness., I reject it.    you may keep it

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's in scripture if your humble enough and hungry enough to find it.
      
      The literal (letter) will only lead to death (2 Cor.3:6).

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   Jewelsposted 11 years ago

   Before the fall, separation, we were God. There was no perception of there not being grace.  As the state of Godhood is all that is then grace was part of that all that is.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Jewels- I don't believe there was a time that man (human beings) was God. However, their is a verse in the bible spoken by Jesus where He mentions we were gods. But this, I believe should not be taken in the context that we were God. Thank you.

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      Jewelsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Lets agree to disagree, as I am sure I am a part of God.  If you are not, that's for you to deal with.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Jewels- By all means show me in the Holy Bible where it states mankind was God before the fall of man. I never seen it. And that where I place my trust is in the bible. If you do not, then that's for you the deal with. Thank you.

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      Jewelsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The kingdom of God is within, it's inside of us. When you understand yourself as being separate  from God you shall never find God.  Simple.  Teachings are simple, it's humans who make it complex and this is how it becomes difficult.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Jewels- Your statement that we were God before the fall and the Kingdom of God is two seperate issues. It may help if you clarify what you mean by "we were God."

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Beautiful, Jewels. What the others seem to miss is that we were at-one with God, created in His image -- not human!
      
      The great separateness was ego. I have experienced no ego a few times in my life. All miracles. At-one with God.
      
      But love is the way

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The point of my question was; Did God's grace exist before Adam and Eve sinned. Adam and Eve were human beings (mankind) before the fall. For the purpose of my question, let's stick with that.

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      But g, Adam was told he would die on the day he ate the forbidden fruit. Did he literally, physically die on that day? No. He was spirit; not human. Reinforcing this is the notion Christ taught to Nicodemus.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      LS- yes man is a spirit being but MAN's body was created (the human) in  "the beginning in the garden" from the dust of the earth, making man temporarily  physical "earthly.      "death" is separation from God, so adam died on that day.

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       graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       celafoe- I have to admit, Genesis 2: 8 States: "The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He PUT the man whom He had formed." I'm not sure what to make of that, yet. I plan to study this verse further. It could be my misunderstanding.

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       celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       grace-   "in the garden" does not belong there.
       i typed too much too fast, yes the man was first, then the garden was made special for him.   sorry i mixed thoughts, will read more carefully before posting..

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       lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Cel and Grace, I still think you're both taking it too literally. How much of Genesis was supposed to be literally sequential? How much metaphor? Kabbalah's Tree of Life is in Genesis. You won't find it being literal.

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       Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Being one with God does not mean we were God Here is ex. of being one
       John 17:11
       And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may

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   JThomp42posted 11 years ago

   I think he was testing man (Adam and Eve) and knew they would fall. God is omnipotent so he of course knew that grace must be needed to save man and his sinful ways.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      JThomps42- Testing man could be a possibility and should not be ruled out. After all, God knows everything. Many thanks for your answer and God bless

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      JThomp42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      God bless you

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   PlanksandNailsposted 11 years ago

   I believe God knew man would fall because He gave us free will with the ability to choose. At the moment we were created in His image, He bestowed His unmerited favor upon us. Unfortunately, many do not want it, but I am forever grateful for it.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      PandN- Many thanks for your answer. I believe you and JThomps42 are thinking on the same line. And I agree with both. Thanks again.

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   celafoeposted 11 years ago

   I would say yes and give you King David to look at to see this in action.   God judged his heart more than his actions and gave him much grace.

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      celafoe- It's so great to see you again. I was starting to wonder what happened. I am very much looking forward to hearing much more from you. Thanks also for your answer and God bless you always.

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   lone77starposted 11 years ago

   God's grace is perpetual, timeless, outside of time.
   
   Every physical trait of reality is something created. You can apply none of these traits to God.
   
   I suspect that a literal interpretation of the Bible will not bring you closer to God's Truth. 2 Cor. 3:6 warns against the letter (literal), for it leads to death; while the spirit leads to life. The literal is only the beginning for where to dig. Too many remain too lazy to dig. And many of them are too arrogant, thinking that they have it all figured out.
   
   Mankind (the clan of Homo sapiens) came after the fall. The Garden was a non-physical, spiritual realm. Human bodies are the rescue vehicle for God's children. Those children were created in His image and likeness. Perhaps the obvious should be stated, here: God is not human. So, what does that make us, His children?

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      lone77star- If you were to compare Genesis 5 :1-2 with Genesis 1:27-28 the line up pretty close. So I'm not sure where you drawn on your understanding or what you mention in the lower half of your comment has to do with God's grace. Please explain.

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I understand, g. But you have to look at broader context. "Man" was created 2x -- God's image and dust. These are not equal. Adam was told he'd die on the day, but he did not physically die -- he died spiritually.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      God created man out of dust-in His image, one time.   That is clear , anything other than that is a fable from the mind of man.   in His image does not mean physical looks.   man is a spirit being living in a temporary physical body

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Celafoe, all kinds of abominations come from trying to twist literalness into cohesive meaning. Dust does not equal spirit. God is not Homo sapiens.
      
      Image is one time = spirit.
      
      Dust is one time = Homo sapiens.
      
      That's 2x.
      
      Gen.5:2 shows Adam=plural

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      graceinusposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      lone77star- They were removed from the Garden to prevent them from eatting from the tree of Life. If garden was non physical, then why were angel place in the garden to prevent man from returning and eattingfrom tree of life in a non physical garden?

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Great Q, g. Remember the other side, salvation? Nicodemus was confused how he could be physically born again. The Fall and the Rescue are both spiritual.
      
      The Tree of Life is embedded in Genesis 4-5, if you're humble and hungry enough to find it

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      ls-  and yes you twisted what i said also, trying to demean me-- thats ok. because i will not fit your twisted definition of "humble"

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