If God wants total dependence, Why would He give us our abilities?

Jump to Last Post 1-4 of 4 discussions (48 posts)

0
Deepes Mindposted 10 years ago
In quite a few discussions and forums, I've noted that both atheists and Believers state that the God of the bible wants (or demands, depending on who is looking at it) that his followers not only worship Him, but to also depend on Him for everything.

My question is this, If God's desire (working on the premise that one exists) is for everyone to depend on Him for everything, then why would he give us the abilities that he has as well as the free will to decide how to use those abilities?
reply report
1. 59
  Aloke Mukherjeeposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Deepes, you are absolutely right. we have our abilities and free will to work on. We have fight through our existence to reach a state of bliss.But bliss is there to reach.
  reply report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. We have so many abilities that we were Given by God and the instruction on using them, but some believers don't use them
  reply report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Abilities, such as?
  reply report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Hey ATM.. Was wondering when you would be showing up on this forum..Here is your laugh for the day.
  
  What I mean is that working on the premise that God exists (since I have no actual proof), There are things that believers pray to him directly for that he has already given us the ability to do for ourselves.. The bible states that we were made in God's image. I created a forum asking others what that means to them and I got similar answers from both believers and atheists that only pointed to a physical likeness or representation (meaning God is human with human features.. etc). When I look at that scripture, I interpreted that scripture to me that we have some of the same characteristics OF God, but not the same AS God. digging into that further, we have the ability to create life (but instead of doing it how God created Adam, we have to have sex). We have the ability to heal others and ourselves (with medicine and medical procedures as well as the body's natural ability to regenerate cells and fight off infections).
  Based on these examples as well as some other scriptures, I have concluded that in actuality, some believers pray to God and depend on God (if He is real out of respect to lack of believers) for wayyyyy more than they actually should be because most of what some pray to God to do for them they have the ability to do for themselves.
  
  This is why I have so much respect for atheists. You guys live a life that we are supposed to be living, which is a life where God is not interfering in our day to day lives because we have the ability to think, reason, and do things on our own as well as the morals and ethics to do the right thing BECAUSE it is the right thing, not because you are afraid that someone is watching over your shoulder and going to punish you for making a mistake or reward you at the end.
  
  There you go. This is part of my beliefs.. I await your response, though I have a feeling that I already know what it is going to be (for the most part)
  reply report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I have yet to see you offer anything that supports your claim God gave us those abilities, or any others.
  
  In fact, we do have the ability to think and reason, yet believers rarely if ever use them. We have morals and ethics, yet believers turn to their scriptures that often contradict morals and ethics.
  
  Again, what abilities exactly did god give us?
  
  So far, with believers, it appears to be the abilities are only ignorance and intolerance.
  reply report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you missed it, but I did say that I did not have any proof specific that would support what I have stated. I am not asserting that what I just stated is the absolute truth. This is only a conclusion that I have drawn based on my understanding and as such I can admit that although it makes sense (to me), I could be wrong. These things are only my views and opinions. I don't hold them to be actual facts.
  
  As far as your general statement about believers and intolerance and ignorance, I agree with you that this is the case with a lot of believers (heck, there are believers that have blasted me when I presented this idea to them) it is not the case with all believers. Maybe there is something I said toward you that may have seemed intolerant to you (and if so I apologize, it is never my intent to offend), but I personally believe in live and let live. I certainly cannot and will not condemn anyone to a place that I have no proof of the existence of. I admit that I do not know everything, but I am still trying to learn as much as I can. What I presented to you was only a belief working on the premise of if there is a God (considering that I have no proof). I know that I have stated that I believe in God, But a lot of my views actually lean more toward being agnostic because I don't know for sure if what I believe is correct because it hasn't been proven and whatever i state here could be wrong because it is only my opinion. Now once it is proven one way or the other then my thought process will change as accordingly.
  
  On another note, I appreciate that you responded the way that you did to me. You might think it is rubbish but at the very least you appeared to give what I was saying some type of consideration and not outright ridiculing or laughing at it like you do some of the other believers.
  reply report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I get that. The problem is how can anyone arrive at those conclusions from your explanations. Mind boggling.
  
  No, you have said nothing intolerant to me personally. No worries there, dude.
  
  I would suspect that a more in-depth study on your part into evolution could show you how our abilities evolved along with us.
  reply report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  These conclusions are based on My understanding as well as asking what else could be meant by that specific scripture. It may seem crazy to some, but it makes more sense to me than to believe that God interjects himself into everything that happens every step of the way. I have even been blasted by believers when I presented this to them as well. My comments were aimed at those who Pray to God for a baby (when we have the ability to make one ourselves), Pray for healing (when we have doctors and medicines), or for money and wealth (when we can go get jobs, start businesses...etc) then sit around and wait on God to provide these things. There is another scripture that says that faith without works is dead, which (to me) means that you can pray and believe God all you want for everything that you want, but if you don't put in the effort yourself, then you won't get what you want.
  
  Ok, just checking since you made that general statement regarding believers, intolerance, and ignorance. I was hoping that you viewed me differently than other believers (other than the whole delusional belief in God thing...LOL)
  
  I actually, I have read and studied up on a lot of things scientific (science was my favorite subject in school). This is why I don't think God is consistently doing things on a second by second basis (as some believe). I believe that God (if He is real) basically set things up from the beginning and then walked away (so to speak. I do not subscribe to the belief that God is micro managing every aspect of our lives. Whether it is proven that God does not exist, I appreciate the answers that science and those who have researched and studied have provided up to this point and continuing to find more answers
  reply report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  That's why I suggested a more in-depth study into evolution so you can see for yourself gods have nothing to do with our abilities.
  reply report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I get your point
  reply report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Darwinian evolution is a joke.
  reply report
  60
  Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Really Jane? Pity the fools who spend their entire careers in in-depth study of genetics, palaeontology, astronomy, biology,........
  reply report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they should spend more time trying to improve themselves spiritually.
  report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  If scientists spent the time in a manner you are referring to, then who would have been around to do the researches to discover the advances that we take advantage of daily?
  report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Do you mean advances like nuclear weapons, Monsanto (my satan) frankenfood, hormone and canabalistic cow meat, those kinds of advances? Factories that pollute the water and the oceans and the air? Plastics that will never decompose? So that 5 percent of the population can live in comfort while the rest are malnourished and have to force thier children to pick trough garbage piles looking for things to sell or recycle?
  report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Advances in medicine (which you utilize, I'm sure), processes for food preservation, technology (like the phone you use as well as the computer that you are using, transportation (which you use unless you are telling me you walk everywhere).. need I go on?
  report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you ignored my point. Do you enjoy the fact that you have the privelege of using these luxuries at others' expense?
  
  Wake up.
  
  Our lifestyle is making the lives of billions a miserable horror. And no one really cares.
  report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  And you are asking me this question while you are using the same thing that you are blasting me about..
  
  I'm done.. I can't even anymore.. That is the funniest thing ever. If you feel that strongly about it, then go head and give up all of your advances and become Amish
  
  No, I did not ignore your point. It's true that there have been a lot of harmful things that have been done, but there is bad and good in everything. You wanted only to focus on the bad while I was pointing to the good..
  report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you are looking at the good. You want to stay comfortable in your warm little bubble.
  
  Looking at the bad, in yourself and in the world, makes you have to choose whether you are willing to help change it or not.
  
  Plus, looking at the bad makes you feel icky, and who wants that?
  report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  You can make that snap judgment of me if you choose (which goes against the bible, by the way), but you have no idea of the things I do. I mentioned the good, but you chose to focus on the bad.. go figure. I haven't seen anything regarding your efforts to change the world either
  report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible? Really? What does that have to do with God?
  report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yet, you use all the things science has provided for you. And, while you sit there whining, you yourself add to the pollution and the malnutrition others experience. Contradict much? lol
  report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I don't recall whining or contradicting anything. I even think I mentioned "our" lifestyle, which includes me as well.
  
  You can't help change anything until you yourself are changed, and that only comes from God.
  report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  You and I both know that isn't even remotely true, quite the contrary, in fact. The dismal results of the last several thousand years of religious rule and mindset is what needs changing, not more embracing.
  report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Believe what you want. Stay in a morass of crap, that's up to you. Have fun.
  report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  And, how exactly does one achieve that magical act?
  report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing to do with magic at all. In fact it's pretty easy.
  report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  If it's so easy, why not just explain it here?
  report
  61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I will.
  
  Meditate.
  
  Ask God for forgiveness.
  
  That's about it.
  
  The only thing is you have to be sincere and really want to meet God and have him transform you.
  
  You can't fool God, he knows your heart.
  report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  So basically, sit quietly and talk to myself as if to a small child.
  
  And, you aren't fooling anyone, either.
  report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  That's probably why you never took the time to understand it.
  reply report
2. 60
  Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Good question. I think that if the Adam & Eve fable tells us anything it's that God expects us to be grown up, use the God given abilities we have, make our own decisions, and accept full responsibility for the choices we make. I think Christians confuse the statement attributed to Jesus about coming to the Father as a child that they must be totally dependant upon him for every detail of their lives. This is enforced by the idea that we're useless filthy sinners capable of nothing.
  reply report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Good points DPH.
  reply report
61
janesixposted 10 years ago
Because God wants you to choose to be good. It's still a choice, but you have to be sincere.
reply report
1. 0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for responding, but my question wasn't a question on doing right or doing wrong. My question is more about those who Depend on God totally for everything. A lot of Christians pray that God's will be done in everything they do and pray that God gives them everything, then they sit and wait, which negates more than a few scriptures in the Bible. with that being said, I ask again, if We are to totally be dependent on God for EVERYTHING, why would God have give us our abilities?
  
  You also made a good point. If God wants us to make the choice to do good for ourselves so he gave us free will, that would (or should IMO) negate the concept that he wants us totally dependent to the point where he steps in and interferes with everything
  reply report
0
Deepes Mindposted 10 years ago
Ok.. That conversation is done (as far as I'm concerned). Back to the original topic of this forum
reply report
70
JMcFarlandposted 10 years ago
A Morass of crap. Wow. That's some love you have there for other human beings.
reply report
1. 0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Hey JM.. Nice to see you.. Hey, Before you jump into that conversation, can you answer my question?? Thanks..
  reply report
  70
  JMcFarlandposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I think the answer is simple. Christianity has told people that they have a disease, and then provided the cure for it before that disease has ever been sufficiently established. It tells people from an incredibly young age that they're worthless without god. They're evil. Tainted. Sinful. Then they provide the cure of "salvation" for all of the immorality.
  
  It's when you start to break out of that when you start to see different truths. I think Christians are taught to be dependent on god and to distrust their own instincts and intelligence. Christianity from the beginning has De-emphasized learning, intelligence and knowledge. After all, it's the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil that damned mankind to begin with. And again, I say - without the knowledge of good and evil, it's impossible to know that what you're doing is wrong and be condemned forever because of it. I think that this indoctrination has led current believers to distrust their abilities, instincts and knowledge SO MUCH that they're completely incapable of recognizing that they CAN do things for themselves without divine help, which I find remarkably sad.
  
  If god already has a predetermined plan for every single individual on the planet, then intercessory prayer becomes irrelevant.
  reply report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your answer, my friend
  reply report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  It is not difficult to understand why the world is in its current state. We embrace mindless ideologies based on belief systems. It's little wonder why schools never get proper funding, why research grants are given away to cranks and crackpots from politicians driven by the good book.
  reply report
2. 61
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  The world isn't a morass of crap? Please, tell me what is wonderful about it, can you find anything about it that humans haven't ruined yet?
  
  And what does that have to do with my love for other human beings? I at least have enough compassion to try to wake you sleepers UP.
  reply report
  70
  JMcFarlandposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  That's a kind of compassion (through judgment and self-righteous indignation) that I can do without, thanks.
  reply report
  0
  Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  If what you have spoken is your idea of love and compassion... I pass. Thanks anyway
  reply report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  That's what happens when you leave responsibility in the hands of believers.
  
  *yawn*
  reply report
  58
  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Are you joking? I've been all over the planet and have seen sites that took my breath away, some right in my own back yard. It's not really possible to not find wonder in so many places.
  reply report

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

Necessary

Features

Marketing

Statistics

Approve All & Submit
Approve Checked Only

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy

Show Details

Necessary
HubPages Device ID	This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
Login	This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google Recaptcha	This is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
Akismet	This is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google Analytics	This is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic Pixel	This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web Services	This is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
Cloudflare	This is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted Libraries	Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)

Features
Google Custom Search	This is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google Maps	Some articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google Charts	This is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host API	This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTube	Some articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Vimeo	Some articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Paypal	This is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook Login	You can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Maven	This supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)

Marketing
Google AdSense	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClick	Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index Exchange	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Sovrn	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook Ads	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexus	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Openx	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon Project	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLift	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say Media	We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing Pixels	We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking Pixels	We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.

Statistics
Author Google Analytics	This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
Comscore	ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking Pixel	Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
Clicksco	This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)

If God wants total dependence, Why would He give us our abilities?

Arts and Design

Autos

Books, Literature, and Writing

Business and Employment

Education and Science

Entertainment and Media

Family and Parenting

Fashion and Beauty

Food and Cooking

Games, Toys, and Hobbies

Gender and Relationships

Health

Holidays and Celebrations

Home and Garden

HubPages Tutorials and Community

Personal Finance

Pets and Animals

Politics and Social Issues

Religion and Philosophy

Sports and Recreation

Technology

Travel and Places

About Us

This website uses cookies

If God wants total dependence, Why would He give us our abilities?

Related Discussions

This website uses cookies