WHY?

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   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   
   In this postmodern, postindustrialized era where science and logic has gained preeminence, why do presumably highly intelligent, educated, and logical people still insist on believing in the Devil and Hell? For centuries, religionists have used the concepts of the Devil and Hell to scare people into conforming to their particular religious construct and to generally exploit and subdue them psychologically.

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      bBereanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The devil made us do it!

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      kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Because the concept is fundamental to what makes the human human..
      It is impossible to dismiss it without it being fully understood/accepted
      
      You have proven the point quite adequately, for you on your own volition brought it up again.
      Which also say that yourself is as guilty as those of whom you complain.
      
      If you had brought it up to understand it you would have been fine...
      But you brought it up in order to dismiss it.
      Are you not then working against your own purpose?
      
      If you were not in denial of who you actually are, then you would have been fine.
      
      Take for example, What makes an atheist an atheist?
      The answer is God...
      
      And without God the atheist himself cannot exist...
      So the atheist as long as he remain an atheist will be in denial of himself...And will be the chief perpetrator of the God debates.
      
      With some imagination you can see the same pattern in the gay lifestyle, politics, religious organisation, the action that  can result in a man going to prison.

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         A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry, but atheists are not in denial of religious nonsense, let alone themselves. The atheist has nothing to do with your God or any other gods.
         
         We could say the same thing about you being in denial of Allah or Zeus or Thor. You have no point at all.
         
         
         
         That's just absurd and ridiculous.
         
         Queue the response to the absurd and ridiculous...
         
         

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            kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The only proof need was a man..
            
            
            And he has shown up in verification of the point.

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               A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Would that be you?

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                  kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I have made my point...
                  
                  ...though with spitting and fuming.... denial is bound to confirm it.

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                     A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Actually, you didn't.

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                        kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        ...but yet you did speak ..

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                           A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, amazing isn't it, that we humans have the ability to speak.

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                              kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              yep...
                              
                              ...Especially so when its about things they have not understood....

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                                 A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 I can understand speech, I cannot understand gibberish, though.
                                 
                                 Give us speech.

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                                    kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    So what made you come down to my lowly level to communicate in my language...
                                    
                                    You must be God sent...innit..
                                    
                                    ...kudos to you...faithful prophet of god.
                                    ...you remind me of Christ.

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            Deepes Mindposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I think the point here could be that atheism, by being a lack of belief would actually become redundant (so to speak) if the truth were to be proven for sure one way or the other. I understand that you stated that atheists have nothing to do with any gods because of your actions, but it kinda does in relation to beliefs (or lack thereof)

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               A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               True, but there would never have been any such thing as an atheist if there were no theists claiming their gods in the first place.
               
               Will the proving of leprechauns riding unicorns in the Kentucky Derby one way or the other make my a-unicornism and a-leprechaunism redundant?

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                  Deepes Mindposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Yep and this also would apply to the purple dragon in your garage...

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                     A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Bingo!
                     
                     
                     That's his name.

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                        Deepes Mindposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Glad you told me.. Maybe we can let Julie know too so she will stop thinking you stole Fluffy (unless you did take Fluffy and renamed).

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                           A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Fluffy was the son of Bingo, who died on the Maltese but was re-elected.

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      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      They were indoctrinated to believe.

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   KEPitz1005posted 11 years ago

   I've been wondering the same thing too...

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   Seth Winterposted 11 years ago

   Sounds like an atheist rant to me....

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   Emile Rposted 11 years ago

   As much as I abhor the thought that there are those among us who (at times) appear to revel in the belief that most of humanity will be so callously treated by what they insist on calling a loving God; I think, in all fairness, you shouldn't say that they do this in an attempt to make us conform; as if they, alone, do this. What is reality to a human other than an endless series of experiences where we are judged by our attitude about conforming?
   
   What are you doing at the moment? Attempting to argue your point in hopes that someone will conform to your views.
   
   For all we know, logic and reason (by our understanding) is limited to the human race. When attempting to extrapolate cosmic truths from our experiences we all enter the realm of belief. What we hear, feel and see is filtered into belief. Those who expect justice can see there is not always justice. I suppose it is difficult to fathom. So, belief allows them to function. And, that is the way with all of our beliefs. How we view our place within humanity and how we wish reality to be. How things would be if we had ultimate power and control.
   
   I think that is my problem with the concept of the devil and hell. Because that belief extends unfairness into eternity. That belief extends powerlessness for the individual. That belief says that the individual who holds it doesn't care about the essence of the other individual. That belief allows suffering to continue because it creates a cosmic separation which cannot be overcome.
   
   But, it isn't much worse than many other beliefs. I had an atheist admit yesterday he would sit by idly and allow a Christian to starve. Ostensibly, to showcase the fact that the Christian God would not provide food. How hellish is that?

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      bBereanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Emile, this illustrates what I find so confusing about your view regarding those who believe hell and the devil are real.  You seem to be dismissing the possibility of their sincerity in favor of saying they simply want this to be true and revel in the thought of others suffering.  Holding that belief means they don't care?  Holding that belief is what allows suffering to continue? 
      
      If people believe hell and the devil are real, and seek to warn others in the hope that they may avoid that fate, how do you see them as wishing others would suffer?  If those who hold those beliefs wanted others to suffer wouldn't the appropriate course of action be to remain silent about the danger and let things run their course?  Their belief doesn't make it true so if it is true their warning is noble, if it is not true, it is nothing more than harmless drivel.  Aren't you just killing the messenger?

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         A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yet, we have observed over the centuries, that drivel is not harmless at all, quite the contrary.
         
         And, whether or not the belief is true, we all know about the heaven/hell myth and no longer need any warnings, thank you very much.

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         Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I don't consider myself to be killing the messenger because I honestly believe a serious and honest review of this belief would result in the realization that hell can't be resolved to the concept of a loving God or loving others without jumping through hoops to get there.
         
         If hell is real, then God is not good. If this is the case, worshipping God is despicable. It is turning your back on your fellow man in the end. It is saying that a time will come where you will allow another to torture people without standing up for them to argue and/or fight in their defense.  Does this equate to love? Would there ever come a time where you would want others to give up on you?
         
         If God is good, then hell is not real.
         
         I prefer alternative two.  If the moon was a flaming ball of fire and we could look in a telescope to witness people being tortured, while a big voice boomed down saying, 'follow Jesus or I'll send you there' or, 'follow sharia law, or this will be Thy fate for all eternity' I suppose you might consider that fair warning. Even then, I'd have to ask why. Eternity? Suffer for eternity for a few missteps in life?  How fair is that?
         
         We have an obligation to our fellow man. Christians love to point out that they are sinners, but God knows their heart. They know they will avoid this. But, should you? Where does that put your heart, when the question of your fellow man comes up? Love God, love your neighbor as yourself. Is their heart not as important for God to know as yours? Are their sins greater than yours? If so, what are their sins?
         
         If heaven and hell were real, how many could be saved if, at the Pearly Gates every Christian stopped and said 'No. Please save another in my stead.' Giving up your life for the life of another is said to be the greatest sacrifice. But, what we have is people accepting that there is no alternative. That hell is a final destination that cannot be changed except by the individual. That they have no power to help. That love stops at some point. Love either is, or it isn't. It never stops unless you choose to stop it.

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