We all understand that Christians are supposed to study the Bible. Nobody is here saying they are not supposed to do that. But many say we must do exactly what is in the Bible. But that would make a Christian someone who followed the Bible and not Christ. So the only way to make sense of it is to follow Christ in one's heart and then study the Bible. So the only interpretations we can have are consistent not with what is written but what Jesus relates to us personally.
Or if not we are Biblists and not Christian.
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God...."
You cannot separate Christ and the Bible. They are the same.
"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
Just for quoting purposes where did you get this line?: You cannot separate Christ and the Bible. They are the same.
There are people who study the Bible and know it well but do not want to be called Christians, because they do not follow Christ. They study and admire Him as an exemplary human being but do not worship Him as their Lord.
True that Miss Dora. I am kind of hoping someone will show me the writing that says we must read the Bible at all. Just interesting really.
2 Timothy 2:15
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Matthew 4:4
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17
"This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success." Joshua 1:8
But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God." Matthew 22:29
From my brain. lol
From reading this very verse, I know this to be true.
I get ya. It is a personal thing. But there was no new testament when that was written by the author.
I believe that the Bible cannot tell us to read the Bible. So it must be a personal connection.
Maybe we can find something that tells us to read scripture.
There was scripture. The Torah, prophesy...
Eric, I am confused as to why you would hold any other written material in higher esteem than the Bible when it comes to how to relate to God.
Sorry Beth37 I have many Bibles. I subscribe to myriad of sites giving me that Word. I love it. But I cannot hold a book in esteem. I have a Gutenberg second edition in German and a Latin Vulgate that I struggle with mightily given to me by my Jesuit father.
But I could never hold them in higher esteem than Mark Knowles who is flesh and blood and my brother. I just cannot put a book above a human that is a miracle. Inspired YES! But a thing yes?
It is inspired by God? So when the Bible says, " The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." do you believe that to be true?
Now we are on the issue thank you much. I do not need the Bible or a Preacher man or a Religion to tell me that. Jesus walks right next to me every single millisecond of every day. Let our buddy Mark just call me schizophrenic. But to me Jesus is Love and I feel Love all day long and all night long. I do not need the Bible to tell me so. He is alive and in me.
"Inspired by God". A little (or a lot ) off the subject, but it occurs to me that this can have two very different meanings.
1. It may be presumptious of me, but I assume that many of your own actions are inspired by the bible, by the words or actions of Jesus. You look at these things and they inspire you to act in a certain manner.
Just as a painter might look at a landscape in front of them and be inspired to paint. It won't be a photograph, though - any painting he does will be filtered through his own experiences, abilities and emotions. Just as your actions, inspired by Jesus or not, will be filtered through your beliefs, interpretations, emotions and specific situations.
If the people who penned the bible were inspired in this manner, their words will have been filtered through their cultural norms and beliefs, through their own thoughts and emotions. It is not necessarily the word of God.
2. The other meaning, and the one I have always ascribed to, is that God pretty much used the writers as tools. Robots, writing exactly what He wanted written and recorded. In no other way could we ever be sure that what we read in the bible is true or is what God wanted us to know. No filtering through fallible humans, no human emotions or notions mixed in; just the pure word of God.
Agnostic. I don't know. Which is a part of why I asked; I'm always interested in the thoughts of others and, more importantly, why they hold that opinion.
If my opinion counts for much... I envision this to be a situation much like a teacher/student situation.
If a professor wanted to call upon someone to teach his class, who better than the student he knew most clearly understood his work?
He would choose the student who did well on all the tests and homework assignments of course, but he would also choose the student that he had discussed the subject with at length. One who loved the subject matter to the point that nothing mattered to him more. He would know this student on a personal level.
So when it came time for the "student" to share what they knew, yes... they would be 100% lead by God's spirit. Yes, I do believe they would be like a tool... or a better word maybe... a transponder. At the same time the student was chosen because he was a trusted friend... he was found worthy. However I wouldn't ever use the comparison of a robot b/c that implies he doesn't have a choice. Mankind always has the choice to do his own will over that of God's.
So, God teaches us in the Old Testament to take an eye for eye and tooth for a tooth. Is this what he taught Jesus and if so, why did Jesus then change that to turn the other cheek, a complete turnaround from what God taught? Perhaps, Jesus did not do well on his tests and homework assignments after all, evidently.
Yeah, dude, Im sorry, Ive stopped reading your stuff again. I just want to talk to the grown ups from now on.
Continuing the analogy then, the student writes as he sees fit. He is trusted to do his best, but the words are his own and not those of God. He may have it right, he may not, but he has done his best and that best is very good, indeed.
But that still leaves the words of the bible to be possibly wrong. They are still coming from a fallible human, a man who has still filtered God's words through his own beliefs, morals and knowledge. The morality end will still come, to some degree, from the culture he was raised in and the knowledge (especially as it were written long after the fact) sill also filtered from what the people of the day understood to be true or not.
Or did God somehow "correct" the inevitable mistakes and errors of the writers? I don't know - just erase and "re-write" the words somehow, although that sounds silly put so simplistically.
If you go back and check the last paragraph of my post, I actually said I thought in the case of those who were chosen to pen the scriptures, I believe they were fully inspired, but that they had to choice whether or not they wanted to submit themselves to God or not. They could have walked away, or written their own perspectives, but God would not have used it. Maybe their personalities came out as they wrote? Maybe they were humorous or serious or dynamic or descriptive? Maybe God chose each writer according to what He knew their personalities would bring to the text? I don't know, but I know they could not be submit to God's spirit and subsequently fail to please God.
Well, I did have a little difficulty in deciphering your meaning.
No offense meant, but you DO seem to be waffling here. Either God puts the words into the man or He doesn't. It can't be both ways, and if He doesn't then the writer, inspired (#1) or not, well intentioned or not, will inevitably write what God did not intend to be said. If, indeed, he ever actually intended the bible to be written at all; I suppose it could be just pure mankind producing what we take as God's word. I suspect that few would take that view, however true it might be, as it would put the bible on par with the writings and thoughts of any other great philosopher. With that thought in mind, the bible DOES contain some great guidelines for living along with obvious the falsehoods.
1) I believe the Bible is inspired. God spoke directly through each man.
2) The writer was not a robot, he did not have to do the task, but he had submitted himself to the leading of God's spirit.
3) It is possible that God chose each person because of the gifts He gave them... i.e. The writer would share the message that God gave him, but whereas one man was gifted at being descriptive, another was gifted in evangelism. Therefore, they would share the absolute message and intention of God while using their own personal gifting.
What's so contradictory about that claim is the fact that half of all Christians tell us not to take the Bible literally but still believe it is the word of God. Black is white and white is black.
What makes you think all the workings of the bible were inspired by God (Gods words) while the Quran and the Book of Mormon were not? All those muslims and Mormons are just as convinced as you.
What's interesting too me is that, aside from a few laws or commands, nowhere in scripture does god order the creation of his word. There are commandments for practically everything, but no guidelines for which books should be included and which shouldn't be. Which authors are inspired and which aren't. God never seemed to order the creation of scripture at all. this is even more interesting when it comes to the new testament because the books that were included/excluded were determined by committee and popular vote. The nt cannon was in direct repose too Marcion who was making his own "scriptures" that went against the proto orthodox movement of the day. Marcion was deemed heretical, so they formed a canon of their own, destroying the hundreds of other books that didn't make the cut. They voted on books that lined up with orthodox ideas and voted by popularity. Hardly "inspired".
You should be ashamed of yourself for providing facts.
God never gave guidelines, instructions or background information for compiling what would be pawned off as his "word" which, by the way, people claim is also infallible. But he gave very precise instructions about diet, fabric and sacrifices which Christians claim no longer apply. This is an insane dichotomy. On the subject of the "Bible" god is silent. That silence should speak volumes. Or may the canon compilation instructions were voted heretical and destroyed. Lol
Silly, pesky things, facts. They have a tendency to prove people wrong.
Indeed, the best teacher is one who has learned the subject well.
Whoasey Posey here. I think we have atheists, agnostics and theists and Christians and whatever else here. It is always awesome to hear from JM and Wilderness.
Let me break it down a bit. We all love our fellow man except for those A--holes we just cannot (let us leave that for now)
So what do we all have in common. We love each other. Cool huh!?
But the facts -- especially out of the Bible -- just ain't gonna make most of us believe in a God. It never made me believe. It is a book by golly. Inspired by a love for a wonderful man? For sure the New Testament was. I embellish because I am a writer and that is what writers do. Duh!
But Biblists seem to think that a word written on paper can leap into my heart and cause it to palpate. Well in fact it does. But it does not for my wife the little converted Christian girl.
We have to find some common love ground here.
Truth -- be that Tireless. Maybe before i pass i shall gain wisdom. ed
Yet you claim to be given instructions into your head by a dead person that didn't actually ever exist. Now - if I told you I had an invisible, non-existent entity speaking into my head, that only I could hear - how would you go about finding common love ground? Would you listen to what I said it said or try and help me with my problem?
Yours appears to be telling you that all the other christians who do not hear the invisible entity and instead get their instructions from a book are wrong and false christians. This is how most religious wars start. In fact, not so long ago, there was a large group of christians who loved their fellow man so much, they used to burn them at the stake to send them up to heaven clean and ready to sit at god's side. A famous quote from Abbot of Citeaux Arnaud Amalric as he ordered the massacre of 20,000 men, women and children at the siege of Beziers in Cathar country (where I live): "Kill them all. God will know his own."
Very cool brother wilderness ;-)
I guess we must conclude that God would not use words. I mean---- why would He? God would just go straight to my heart. If a preacher man don't grab me right now right good I tune her out. The words mean so much less than the juice.
This makes perfect sense to me, but...it also gives rise to the 1,000's of different "interpretations" of what God wants or expects from us, from the radical islamists and abortion clinic bombers to the quiet lady worshiping as she walks a mountain trail. It also, unfortunately, means that no one can describe to another how they can fulfill God's will - churches and pastors are a worthless commodity in God's eyes. No offense intended
This would not be a biblical statement. This is why I think that you and Eric would benefit from having some sort of guideline as opposed to agreeing with an idea because it sounds or feels right to you. What matters is absolute truth and the quest for it.
Rm 10:14,15 (concerning preachers)
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"…
Eph 5:25-27 (concerning God's view of the church)
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
You're missing the point of the discussion.
If God did not speak directly through the writers, with those writers having no choice in what they wrote, then their words are suspect and we must depend on God speaking directly to us. The quotations you give may or may not be what God intended to tell us, and aren't worth much as a result.
Of course, the alternative also poses a problem in that God tells us "facts" about the world and the universe around us that either flat aren't true or are strongly contra-indicated by what we now know of the universe.
The result is that whether God wrote through a tool with no discretion or not, we are still dependent on our own intellect to determine what is true and what isn't. What is reasonable to believe and what isn't. Which goes back to my early statement about just why there are so many thousands of differing opinions about what God wants or asks of us.
Sorry, I didn't realize I had. I'll bow out then and let y'all communicate more easily.
Your choice, certainly. Thank you for your answers, though - I truly did wonder whether you saw the bible as the actual word of God, with all it's factual errors, or as words written by fallible men who would be expected to make at least some errors. Your answers were enlightening.
I do see the Bible as the actual word of God. I see no factual errors.
Im sure you know that when the monks were writing the words of the scripture, if they made even one mistake, they would write the entire page over again. No white out, no spell check.
Most likely, that is because you have never taken the time to research the factual errors in the Bible, others have and have shown the Bible to be factually wrong.
If that is true, why have archeologists been successful finding forgotten cities using the bible? What errors have been creditably revealed? Just curious where you get your information.
Don't think anyone has ever claimed there is no truth in the bible - just that there are falsehoods as well.
Where, you ask? Well, the entire surface of the earth has never been covered with liquid water at the same time, and there was no mass extinction of all life since man came on the scene. The earth was NOT created before the first light and woman did not spring forth from the rib of a man.
There are many, many other stories that violate physical laws; without outside verification it is reasonable to think that the ancient story tellers let their imagination run free rather than accept them as truth. Living for days in a fish stomach, for instance, or coming to life after three days of being a corpse. Some could well be unintentional falsehoods, but still falsehoods.
Beth37 show me the verse that was written after the bible was written that tells us that this is a good book that we must love and accept as truth.
See? You can only accept the Bible on blind faith. Or as in our case wide open faith caused by a loving devotion to and from our Lord. Somehow you just got to make the leap and there is no written word to tell you to do it.
It is a gift not a book.
Im not sure we are on the same page here.
Why would I need *any other book to tell me the Bible is good or important? What supersedes the Bible? I do accept the Bible on faith. I don't feel it's blind faith as I feel God has proven Himself over and over again, but that's neither here nor there. Why would I place faith low on the totem pole, so to speak, when faith is the gift of God, (lest any man should boast)?
I agree the Bible is a gift... not just a book. It is sharper than any two edged sword, able to divide between even bone and marrow. It is living, it is Christ. It is not greater than prayer. It is not greater than salvation. It is not greater than faith... it is all apart of the same God. It cannot be diminished. Can God reveal Himself to men who have no knowledge of the Bible? Of course, but we here in the US and Europe etc... have no need to be without this vital part of God's revelation of Self.
Ecclesiastes 1:5 ESV
The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.
If you are correct and this is the word of God then your God doesn't understand that it's the earth that orbits the sun.
Psalm 104:5 ESV
He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved.
Should we tell your God that the earth is indeed moving?
Joshua 10:12-13 ESV
At that time Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, “Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.” And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.
Ahhh, I guess they (God included) didn't know that it's the earths rotation that gives us night and day.
Hi Radman. I wonder where you found these verses that you think of as controversial. They are not. They are easily explained. If I explain them to you, will you accept my answer or will you google 5 more "discrepancies"? If I explain them, will you be satisfied? No, you wont. I told the others that I shake the sand from my shoes concerning these kinds of arguments. They are never ending and they feel more like games that no one wins. So Im done. I am totally willing and happy to discuss... as I am now with Eric and Wilderness. It's a respectful conversation where two or more ppl are sharing thoughts and presenting ideas. No one is disrespectful, there are no personal attacks, just adult discussion. I find that interesting. What we've participated in on other threads... Im thru with that. So I wont be responding... in truth, for the most part, I wont even be reading certain ppl's posts b/c Im tired of the bickering. I hope you understand, I mean no disrespect. I would just prefer to choose what kinds of discussions I take part in from now on.
You call it 'bickering' when indeed it is others showing you just how wrong you are, which is why you refuse to respond.
Show me where my last post was disrespectful?
You claimed that the bible is the perfect word of God and I showed you some scripture that was certainly not written by anyone who had knowledge of the universe or even our own galaxy. I made no personal comments about your person at all, and then you claim you can successfully explain the errors in scripture, but you don't want because I've been disrespectful.
I didn't say you'd been disrespectful Radman. I was saying I don't want to participate in the kinds of discussions that we have on other threads. We're off the subject now, so Ill shush myself.
I get that. You have no idea how to deal with inconsistent scripture so you just don't deal with it.
Now, there is the pot calling the kettle black.
Alright Wilderness and ATM ---- I am going to bring you to Jesus. I am going to show you the Word of God. I am going to convert you. If you are not afraid just ask. I will go no further now. But if you ask I will change your heart and your minds. But you have to ask. I am busy now but if you are brave enough to test your life against the Holy Spirit just ask.
Wilderness and Beth37 we are not using evidence and we are not talking 1,000s here. We are talking about Bazillions of people who have lived and loved.
Yes bombers and nice ladies would really not be that different. And God does not need to talk to them with words. I suppose lepers and high priests could be included along with dying babies and Alzheimer's elderly. We do good works and bad works. I do good works and bad works. One day when I do bad, it does not separate me. When I study and read and preach the bible it does not make be better than a prisoner in Russia.
It is a great big old goofy world. I fo sho am glad I ain't God.
Rad Man. If only I could grab on to honesty and hold it dear and close and not let it go. Then maybe God would do what? What an illusion this thing called truth.
"I seek and do not find, I study and do not mind, align but do not find, and on my soul the Devil has dined" ed 2013
But my 3 year old cried out and me he found so I was God unto the ground.
You say that but you yourself do not follow it. Few, if any Christians actually do and the ones who do are called Fundamentalists, who are often dismissed by the vast majority of Christians.
Anything you think was related to you personally by a dead guy who never actually existed is simply your over active imagination. It does explain why there are so many different Christian cults and the wars and conflicts mind you.
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. In science, cranks and crackpots operate the same way, they come to a conclusion and then go around finding things to form-fit their conclusions.
Christ in my life has always been more important than the written word, and I imagine that the writers of the gospels must have felt the power of Christ through the acts and teachings of the apostles before they wrote their narratives. It is a personal thing as you say. I have a high regard for those who know scripture well, and a deep respect for the faith of others. Have a nice day.
Well, at least you acknowledge that you imagine it.
Rad Man you make a great point. I do not really know what our modern Apostle John was saying but it is of Biblical proportions.
WHAT the HECK? Einstein said it well, maybe he was just a dreamer. He came up with no idea without first imagining it. Imagine no Religion. Maybe I am just a dreamer. Maybe they will take me out back and shoot me. But I can imagine and I can love.
Brother John is at least a saint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgYAHHkPFs
Einstein didn't just pull ideas out of thin air, his ideas came from facts and evidence, not from invisible, magical super beings.
"Magical Super Being" ------- the trouble with that is "being". God is not a being.
Interesting observation. Just what is He then, other than a mere concept dreamed up by an ignorant savage trying to explain what he saw?
Certainly the god of Christianity is from another universe, but that doesn't make him not a "being". It might or might not be composed of matter or even energy as we know it, but it is still a "being".
Einstein most assuredly did pull crap out of thin air. His "ideas" were just that . And thank goodness. Edison, Voltaire, Franklin, Jobs, Dr. Livingston are real and their thoughts are real to this day along with Darwin and Descartes and Obama.
These greats along with Mark and Rad Man and wilderness. Do not exist. But there ideas do.
Why do you have such a high regard for these people and why on earth do you respect "faith."?
Faith is an understanding and belief in what is not real to our senses. That is the juice of life. We love and we die. I do not know of the die part. But I really do like the love part. Life without both would be meaningless I reckon. But I have faith that I will die.
I know what faith is Eric. And your definition is not it. Loving and dying has absolutely nothing to do with it. I have no respect for believing nonsense with no evidence. Why should I? I know with complete certainty that you will die. Faith has absolutely nothing to do with it.
By your great logic Mark -- the sun will rise tomorrow.
That is totally not supported by logic or science. The Sun could just as logically explode/implode. You have a savings account. That makes no sense whatsoever. It is based on the notion that the world will be here tomorrow and there is no logical explanation or proof that that will be so.
Black holes, super novas and just plain "the inherent randomness of nature" means that one must have faith that tomorrow comes for there is no good REASON to believe that it does.
The Sun rising tomorrow is indeed based on logic and science. The Sun exploding/imploding tomorrow is not.
What does that have to do with me being certain that you will die? I never mentioned the Sun. I think you might want to check your probabilities as well.
You understand what I am saying. Probabilities. Require chance. Ask a gambler. Of course the sun is/was not the issue. Your faith is. You have faith. Just not in God. So take faith out of your argument. All who plan for the future have faith in something. Stop denying you have faith. If you bought gas for your car, you have faith that you will drive it somewhere in the future. That is just plain old faith.
Ah - so what are the chances of you not dying? I don't have faith.I don't really understand this dishonest approach you are now taking. The "faith" I have that my car will run because I put fuel in it is not as you described faith earlier. So which is it? Is faith logical deductions based on observations or believing things that are not real to our senses?
I hear ya bro. That stupid Edison sold us on the notion that faith is about trying two thousand times. And the hippie we call Jesus taught us that faith is giving up - let go let God type of thing.
I guess you just taught me that faith is like love --- everywhere in everything.
It has to be something like the "God particle". Faith is indescribable i figure.
But for sure you cannot get it by reading a Bible
No - I didn't teach you that Eric. You basically ignored everything I said in favor of repeating your attempt to argue that your faith in Jesus speaking into your head by majik is the same as my knowledge that you will die, therefore you are as reasonable and rational as I am and I just have this ridiculous faith that the sun will rise tomorrow based on nothing at all.
This basically tells me you do not love me at all. If you loved me, you would not treat me and my opinions as an opportunity to defend your irrational beliefs, and the obvious contradictions in your statements (faith is everywhere - except in the bible) are actually just another attack on what you consider to be false christians who are not as good as your type of christian. This is why your beliefs always cause conflicts.
This is not love Eric. If your "love" manifests itself as a means to attack anyone who does not believe the nonsense you believe, I suggest you redefine that word.
Faith is actually giving up. This is why you are defending it and being dishonest in your arguments. Instead of actually thinking about things - you have the easy answer and will not listen to reason. This is not a middle ground sort of thing and no love is involved. Other than perhaps self-love, because the only reason I can see you claiming to love everyone is self righteousness. Well done you!
OK Mark -- I am working on it. Are you saying that I do not have faith or that you do not have faith?
I am saying that is is disingenuous to claim that "faith" in an Invisible Entity that is "not detectable to our senses" existing is not the same thing as "faith" that the sun will come up tomorrow. I do not have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow or you will surely die some day. These are reasonable expectations based on past observation and measurable data.
Why have you been claiming these two radically different versions of "faith" are the same thing?
Past experience means something will happen again? Sorry dude but that is irrational. Give me one author, one scientist, one physicist --- just any dang authority for that concept. That is insanity. Are you telling me that because it happened in the past it will happen in the future. Like some great fatalism?
Think of what that does to Darwin..... Evolution is over? Because "things" always stay the same? Hi there Mr. Dinosaur!!
I am not claiming these faiths are the same. Just that they are equally worthy.
Past experience of the earth spinning for all recorded history is irrational? Past experience of every living being having died, therefore I am certain you are going to die is irrational? Not a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence?
No one said evolution is over - things are continuing to evolve. Yes - evolution happened in the past and - as far as we can tell, is continuing to happen. I see no reason that it would suddenly stop. Nor do I see a reason why the earth would stop moving. It is reasonable to conclude that it will continue for the foreseeable future. As things will continue to die. These are reasonable, rational conclusions.
No wonder this religion causes so much ill will and hatred.
I am correct on this logical conclusion that we cannot expect or rely on the notion that things continue as they are.
Mark what you are doing is repeating it enough to make it so.
Call me dirty names, attack me a person but there is no known existing logical or scientific theorem for your assertions. Get over it. You are starting to sound like a bible thumper.
Things in our perception do not continue. They cease to continue. Matter changes form, energy somehow moves in another direction. Our sun will be a super nova tomorrow.
I want to grab my wife and hold her. I never want my love to change. Sorry dude in another 6 years it will all be different.
It is crazy out here in reality. I watched a guy heal a lame person with his hands. I also got to watch a heart surgery with a triple bypass. (boring)
But Sharpe Health Care is Epic. Because I argue with you Mark so others can get a glimpse of the hard work you and I do in this area does not mean I do not feel your love for me.
You and me have our job to do. Others can learn from what we build ---- that is love. For i get no shelter from our argument,,,, but maybe the next Einstein does. Goooood enough for me. It is never a waste of time to talk to you.
I never said anything about things continuing as they are. I said it is a reasonable conclusion that you will die, based on past experiences and observations. It is also reasonable to expect the earth to continue spinning tomorrow, also based on past experiences and observations. That doesn't mean it is not possible that the earth will stop spinning or you may not die, but - both are highly unlikely. And I never said that either. Please stop lying about what I said. Neither did I call you dirty names, nor did I attack you as a person. No wonder your religion causes so many conflicts. Love huh?
Yes, it's called 'delusion' and is related to indoctrination and mental disorders.
Really Dr. ATM? Delusion, indoctrination and mental illness?
So half the world ,,, oops make that - most the world is insane but ATM is normal??? Wait a second. That would be backwards. If most people believe in God and you do not...... Well that would make you insane by definition. A mental disease is abnormal thoughts and ideation. I guess you are crazy by your logic which is scientific.
But I would rather be called crazy thank you very much. So let us make the 10 per cent Atheist population the norm. Hmmm very confusing.
No, many are indoctrinated and others have mental disorders, like those who claim Satan is controlling us.
If you say so, but of course, the insanity of not believing in gods is growing exponentially and those who continue to cling to the sanity of gods are being left behind.
If you insist.
Well it is all crazy. I would really like to have a sit down logical discussion about money with my wife. But it is emotional to her.
I would also like to sit down and explain to her what a Metaphor is. But she is linear in thought patterns.
I imagine she would like my car cleaner and not have to remind me to zip my fly. So we just keep plugging along. I am just a little bit crazy but it keeps me from going insane. Or maybe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnHKbvad9KI
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