Belief without the Holy Spirit?

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   JMcFarlandposted 9 years ago

   Belief without the Holy Spirit?
   
   If what many Christians these days claim is true,  that it is impossible to come to have faith in the biblical god without the intervention and interpretation of the Holy Spirit,  why was the great commission necessary?   Why leave conversion and evangelism in the hands of humans at all? Why would a written Bible be necessary either,  to be interpreted differently at will by those who claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit,  but who still disagree with each other?

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   Stargrrlposted 9 years ago

   The Holy Spirit is meant as a guide.  YOU have to make the choice as to whether or not you are a follower of Jesus Christ.  You can invite Him to enter your heart, and pray for the Holy Spirit to help guide you in your Christian walk.  The bible is also there as a guide.  People are still encouraged to help educate others who live in remote places and have not heard about the Christian God.  Once the person accepts the belief, the Holy Spirit can enter in and help guide.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      How do you know that your guide is the Holy Spirit and not yourself or,  even worse,  a demon?   If Christians can't agree on what the Bible means,  or often what it even says or what the Holy Spirit says,  how is it reliable and not just invented?

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You have to test your spirits.  Demons and evil spirits will never confess that Jesus is Lord.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      And how do you test your spirits?   Wouldn't it simply be confirmation bias?   The devil himself quotes Scripture,  according to Jesus.  If it's simply your own voice,  how would you distinguish what isn't?

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You can ask for a sign.  Or you can test whether what your "voice" is saying is lining up with Scripture.  While it is true that Satan can quote scripture, his outcome will not be aligned with the Spirit.

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      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Star, that is NOT true.  Jesus and Satan and God and You are in that very same Kingdom WITHIN you.  God said that he would never leave us..becuz he is WITHIN us.  You don't need a book to tell you that. Not all is in that Bible so says it in the Bibl

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      For the sake of argument,  let's assume that the voice is only your own consciousness.   You cannot demonstrate at all that is external.   This makes everything you "hear" tempered through confirmation bias and be subjective.

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The voice could never be just my own consciousness.  If not, then I have to decide whether or not to accept the thoughts put into my mind.  All thoughts come from God or the devil.

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      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Star that is a ploy from religion and you church who indoctrinates you to stay in your church for the purpose of......you figure that one out yourself...and you will eventually.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Why could it not be your own consciousness?  And how do you reconcile testing the spirits with the repeat warnings to never test God?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You're talking about two different kinds of tests.  No, you shouldn't test God in terms of asking Him to prove Himself to you, but you should test any voice you hear--Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light!  That is what God meant.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Once again, how can you know what god meant?  Are you god?  Every Christian I have ever met claims to know what god "meant" - the problem is that almost none of them agree with each other.  They obviously can't all be right.

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You read and understand, and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance.  It is true that God's word is not straight up all the time.  That is why people have had so many good discussions, and to read what others think.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I don't understand why that is not suspicious for you.  If god inspired the Bible, why make it completely subjective and ambiguous for those who read it?  Why make it possible for there to be over 40,000 denominations all claiming to be right?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I don't know why God does what He does.  Perhaps one day I will find out.

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Star, put it in perspective..You don't know why You (God) do what you do.That is what we are to learn.

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I am not God.  I am human being He created.  We are not gods.  That is what Satanists believe--that we are gods and should worship ourselves.  That is not Christian thought.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Lol that's a byline from the satanic panic of the 80s.  Who told you that?   It's absurd and hilarious that you're pretending to discuss what satsnists believe.

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Believe it or not, I have actually read the Satanic Bible.  That is exactly what Anton Le Vey (whatever his name) preached in it.  Man should worship himself.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah. ... I don't believe you.   If you took it for the over the top mockery of religion it was but thought it was literally what they thought they believed,  I don't believe you read it.

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Amen Star!  We are not God!  However, as stated in II Cor 3:18 are being "...changed into the same image from glory to glory..." Putting off sin(s) & into His likeness! Jesus operates n the same manner Changes from Glory to Glory to accompl HIS W

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3. 83

   gmwilliamsposted 9 years ago

   
   
   Christians are not monolithic in perspective and scope.  There are some who strongly contend that one cannot get to God except through Jesus.  There are others who vouched that one cannot get to God except through the Holy Spirit. 
   
   Then there are Christians who do not subscribe to such perspectives, maintaining that one can have faith or a personal relationship with God without going through Jesus or the Holy Spirit.  What a Christian believes regarding God, Jesus, and/or the Holy Spirit is depending upon the particular Christian h/she is, the denomination h/she is part of, and his/her particular mindset and consciousness.   
   
   Trinitarian Christians believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit work concurrently together and that one cannot believe in one aspect of the trinity without believing in the other two aspects.  The more fundamentalist Christians strong vouch that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are REAL, even more real than God.  Unitarian Christians view Jesus as just human and maintain that God is the supernatural one.  Some liberal Christians go ever further to state that God is a prevailing essence or presence not a traditional, judgmental God.

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      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Then there are those of us that believe that we are gods according to what Jesus states in that very same Bible that the kingdom and the laws were put WITHIN us. We are not part of God, he/she is part of us.

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      Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      So humanity created itself?

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      celafoeposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      what a silly statement.    There ARE NOT different kinds of Christians. there are Christians and those pretending to be Christians   churchians.  Scripture is clear there are to be NO DIVISIONS

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree Charlie!  Christians may disagree with each other, but what they all have in common is that they serve God and His son, Jesus!

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      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, and one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and IN you all. " (Eph 4:4-6) and His Name is JESUS!

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      Rich kelleyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You added "and His name is Jesus" Keep reading
      Eph 4:13  until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
      "His Son not God"  I added that.

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      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Yes true! "The knowledge" which is Jesus' manifestation in the flesh!  Read on!  Jn 1;Heb 1; Col 1; Col 2:9; Jesus created this world and no one "still" believes it!  However, we all have been given a certain "measure of faith!"  Rm 12:3.  Study!

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      Rich kelleyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      John 14:23  Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and "WE" will come to him and make Our home with him.
      I have Jesus and His father homing with me.

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      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Rich:  It's funny u believe that Jesus can be in each of us if we believe yet u can't believe that He can be Father, Son & Holy Spirit if He wishes? Both Father & Son for He is THE SPIRIT = "I AM!" Stop looking at the letter & "look" IN T

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       Rich kelleyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Norine
       It is not funny to believe in another Jesus, scripture warns us about this in black and white, I don't have to spiritualize the warnings from scripture. You know them but continue to ignore, that is your choice. We do all get to make choices.

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Dear Rich: II Cor 4:3; John 1:10; Gal 1:6-12; John 4:24!  This is a spiritual journey!  Don't u know The Spirit spoke to us in human understanding (Father & Son) so we could relate?  Jesus is a SPIRIT who IS/WAS in ALL places simultaneously!

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   no bodyposted 9 years ago

   Someday I will see God and I will know Him. I will "see Him as He is." I really don't understand how God can be Father AND a Son AND a Holy Spirit and still be ONE God, but He is. Or, I don't understand that if He is ONE why He wants me to think of Him as any one of the three but I know He does because the Bible says so. I know He is the Father but how that is different from any other reference to God is a mystery to me. But somehow He is. He and the Father are one and yet there are things one knows that the other doesn't. I don't understand that any more than I understand how a God who knows everything says that He forgets my sin and remembers it no more- and yet I have faith it is true because it is written.
          The Bible says that spiritual things are "spiritually discerned." Also a person cannot come unto God "unless the Spirit of God draws him." How this works, I don't understand but I know it is true because the Scripture says so. The Spirit "will teach" and "guide into all truth." Such wording is, for me the determining factor. I have accepted that I will not understand things and my sense of "logic" may not comprehend but I have no problem reading and accepting what i read in that Book as it is written.

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      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Look in the Mirrir and you will see him.  He is WITHIN you, not outside of you.  He was never outside of you.  Thait is what the religions want you to believe.  Luke 17:20-22 and it will tell you what Jesus said about where he and the Kingdom is.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Slight area of contention - you believe that something is true because the Bible says it.   You do not know it,  nor can you demonstrate that it is actually true,  and not just a claim.

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      no bodyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I don't always understand but I read that the Holy Spirit was "moving upon the surface of the waters" in creation, He was coming down upon Jesus in the form of a dove. He came upon Samson and then He left him, I wouldn't say He never was outside man.

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      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Robert, where does Jesus ever say that?  JM, I didn't have to read the Bible to belive that.  Many other Mystics have said similar from way before the Bible's letters and stories were written.  It is what you are, not what is outside.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Lady,  I was responding to Roberts answer,  not your comment.   Sorry for the confusion.

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      Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      JM understood.  I wasn't sure.

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with Robert.  The kingdom of God is not within us...but we have the means to get there.

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      no bodyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Julie, I stepped out in faith, asked Christ in, and now I know it is true in my heart of hearts. I guess you have your reasons for doubting the Bible. I did too before I received Christ.

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      Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      What the heck is a "heart of hearts"?

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Faith and knowledge are two separate and distinct things.   If you know something,  you can demonstrate it.   Faith does not lead to knowledge,  it's different.  If I have faith in aliens,  that doesn't ever make then real.

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       @Debra
       
       When Jesus rose from the waters he was baptized in he was anointed with holy spirit which descended upon him like a dove God's voice was then heard from the heavens proclaim, "'This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”" (Mt 3:13-17)

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I must agree with Deb!  Eph 4:4-6 says "...and IN you all." After Day of Pentecost "IN!"

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   Austinstarposted 9 years ago

   Of "God", "the Holy Spirit" and "Jesus", Jesus is the only one purported to be of this world. To be corporeal. To be a "Christian" literally means to be "Christ-like".
   So, since we humans are corporeal, we should be most like the corporeal one of the three. Naturally, we would be unable to be "god-like" or "spirit-like" so long as we have human bodies. Those two things would belong to the "afterlife".
   So kids, study the New Testament and learn to be Christ-like Christians and worry about the supernatural when you cease to BE natural. After all, most of Christianity believe the only way into heaven is "through Christ", right?

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      If you wait until you cease to be natural--it will be too late.  You should try to be Christlike but also walk in the spirit!  Don't put your salvation off!

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Star - I once was a Christian.  Many atheists were.  Many now atheists were former pastors and missionaries.  We have tried it, only to realize that there's no reason to accept claims without evidence, and faith is not logical justification.

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      That's where you made your mistake.  Blessed is he who believes and has not seen for himself.  You gave up, and that is very sad.  Why do you demand hard tangible evidence?

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      Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      But you tell me that your salvation is through CHrist! Make up your mind.

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      It is made through Christ.  But we need the Spirit regardless.

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      Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I would think that if you have CHrist, the others would be part of the same package. Why separate them?

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      but the disciples had evidence.  Are they not real believers, since they didn't require faith?  All of your examples are to people who claim to have had direct evidence to their claims.  Which is it?  I didn't "give up" I couldn't accept it as true.

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      They ARE part of the same package.  Each part completes the other.  The only reason Jesus was separated was so He could occupy a human body and become like us, and the HS was sent to us later as a guide.  They are all from God.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      And the only way you know this is because people who never met Jesus wrote some stuff down 40-100 years after the fact 2000+ years ago?   hearsay and the game of telephone are hardly reliable sources.

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, I prefer the term "Word of Mouth."  People did pass it on through the generations.

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       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       So, exactly how many guides does god have to separate himself into in order to get his message across?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       He is the Trinity.  But He has countless sources to get His message across--from other disciples to the bible to anyone!

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Star,  do you think that when you play telephone,  the end message is identical to the first one?   What would happen if you extended a game for 40-80 Years,  do you think?   How about if you add a dozen languages?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I think it's possible to keep the core message intact.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Let's back up.   How much do you know about early Christian history?   Do you readout think that you have no thoughts of your own,  if all thoughts come from God or the devil

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Were you aware that there are literally ** thousands ** of ancient Bible manuscripts - in the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine - available today in museums the world over? In fact, no other ancient writings are as well attested to as the Bible's.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Yes I'm aware that there are lots of copies.   I'm also aware that I've told you several times that I'm not interested in interacting with you.   So I won't.

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I know a substantial amount of early Christian history--like how people had to worship in secret because the Romans heavily persecuted them.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Do you know where the persecution stories come from and why?   How about the formation of doctrine and the biblical Canon?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The Romans were threatened by the Christian faith, and were controlled by Satan.  They worshipped demons.  They didn't want the word of Jesus getting out.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Okay 1.  That didn't answer the question and 2. That is patently absurdly false.   Where on earth did you learn that history?   Bible camp?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I learned it by reading books and watching television, and listening to people speak.  No bible camp for me.

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Well Star, this is where we disagree!  There is "NO Trinity" in Scripture!  Jesus is "I AM" and will manifest Himself in ANY GLORY HE WISHES TO GET HIS WILL ACCOMPLISHED!  Jn 1:10; Acts 17 "will judge the world." Heb 1; Col 1; 2; Heb 1. MANYGLORIES!

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       it seems what what you are implying is that Satan is all knowing,  just like god is in order to be able to foresee Christians enough to make their religious practices illegal,  which is why the Romans targeted them.   Is that it?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       No.  Satan knew when Jesus rose up that he was defeated, yet he strives to bring down as many souls as he can.  Satan is NOT all knowing.  He did not foresee anything, but he is clever enough to try to sabotage other people's salvation.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       the Romans targeted Christians and other religions that broke their laws,  although they assimilated many other religious beliefs.  you claim they were influenced by Satan and worshiped demons, which means they had different gods than yours.

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Acting anti-Christian is being under the influence of Satan.  You just don't know it.  And the Roman Gods were really demons--but they didn't know that.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       What is anti Christian?   not being a Christian?   That seems like an incredibly narrow minded and arrogant way to say that you're right and everyone who is not you is wrong.   How do you know any other proposed god that predates yours is demonic?

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I believe that there is only one true God--and the rest are Satan.  I don't mean to be arrogant; I'm not trying to say I am right and you are wrong, but I believe what I believe, and it is different from what you believe, or don't believe.

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       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Stargrl - Satan tells you to think that. Satan is the true author of the bible. How do you know the difference between Satan, Jesus, God, the HG, or any Demi-gods. After all, you've never seen them all in the same room, right?

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Believing something is true,  especially when you are unable to demonstrate that it is true does not give you license to arrogantly assert that every god that is not yours is an evil demon.   I doubt you'd like it to be said of yours.

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Actually, it does.  Haven't either one of you before stated that people are free to believe what they want to, and that they have that right?  If I come off arrogant, I am sorry you feel that way.

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       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Stargrl - you are free to believe the 1st part of your statement, "I believe that there is only one true God--and the rest are Satan." But you are arrogant to say the second part of that sentence. Believe what you will, but stop trying to tell others

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       Lady Guinevereposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       God made EVERYONE and EVERYTHING and said IT WAS GOOD.  Jesu said the the Kingdom of God (which is God, Satan, and EVERYTHING) is WITHIN US.  Jesus said that he put all the laws in our minds and hearts. Whoever tells you different is lying.

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Satan is NOT in the Kingdom of God!  Read Matt 12:25-26!  We need Scripture to prove our beliefs!  Otherwise, foolishness!  (II Tim 3:16)

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       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       @Austinstar:  Go ahead and delete my comments all you want, but I will never stop telling others about my religion.  I wonder why you cannot suffer an opinion or fact that is different from yours.

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       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Stargrl - I deleted your comment because you were trying to answer a question that was asked DIRECTLY of another person. YOU cannot answer for him. It wasn't because you are such a disagreeable ninny.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Star,  I'm sorry that you don't see the difference between having a belief and then asserting something about someone else's belief as though it was absolute fact when it's your belief. If someone insisted your God was demonic,  you wouldn'tlikeit.

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Since we BELIEVE in JESUS, we also BELIEVE "IN HIS WORDS!" Gal 1:8-9 says "...If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED!" Blessings!

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   bradmasterOCcalposted 9 years ago

   Julie
   
   Jesus, the HG, Guardian Angels, and even God were not watching Adam and Eve according to the Old Testament. It took over a thousand human years for the appearance of Jesus and the HG.
   
   They also didn't help Cain, or really Abel from Cain.
   The New Testament tries to loosely couple itself to the Old Testament, but the coupling is almost invisible.
   
   If the HG was on the job in the Garden, we wouldn't be here.
   It is interesting that the Old Testament didn't mention Jesus and the HG when the angels left God and Heaven. A third is a substantial number, and they have been in Heaven and actually know God, according to the OT.
   
   It is also interesting that the Jews, only believe in the first five books of the bible, and they didn't really think Jesus was more than a prophet.
   
   Mohammad saw an opening and he slotted himself in as the next prophet after Jesus. Yet, he could see that not appointing a successor would be a killer.
   
   Originally, the Garden of Eden was to be our eternal world, then after we get thrown out, we get upgraded to Heaven, and threatened by Hell.
   
   I never understood according to the story, why the Devil would punish us for following him. If he punishes us for following him then he is in agreement with his foe.
   
   For example, we have two parties X and Y, and they are foes. You join up with Y, and Y is then going to punish you for going with them. Shouldn't be X that wants to punish you?

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      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      JOE:   I Pet 1:17 "Father judgeth" Whose going to "judge" the world?  Matt 25:31-46; Acts 17:31; You gave me a Scripture in I Pet & I read on and HS told me to tell u this! Jesus is a SPIRIT! Matt 28:18 "ALL POWER..." Where is God then, Asleep?

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   Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years ago

   I believe this passage addresses your question:
   
   "For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”  However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”" -Romans 10:13-15
   
   So you see, everything works in concert; the disciple, with the help of the holy spirit, learns and applies the Bible based truths they've learned from their teacher. (cf. 1 Corinthians 3: 5-9)

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      TexasTornadoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Love of Our Lord Jesus Christ is the greatest gift of God the Father and His Holy Spirit, and should be the primary message of the Christian church, taking precedence over all differences, whether they be theological, denominatio

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Amen!

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Sof you agree that Jehovah's witnesses are true Christians,  star?

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I believe they are saved.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting.   What denomination are you?

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Raised Roman Catholic; now Nondenominational.

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Do you attend church or learn on your own?

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      Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I attend church and am part of a bible study.

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      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      What "Bible" are you reading?  The Scriptures say "That at the NAME of JESUS every knee should bow..."  (Phil 2:10)  What Bible says Jehovah? You in OT where we don't currently live?  Under New Covenant!  Remember Eph 4:4-6!

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Keep reading:
       
       "Every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord *** to the glory of God the Father. ***" - Phil 2:11 (Emphasis mine.) Everything Christ did was for the glory of his Father and God, Jehovah. (cf. Lk 4:8; Jn 20:17)

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Dear Joe:  His NAME is JESUS who is God! (Jn 1:10) He chgs fm Glory to Glory (Eph 3:11; II Cor 3:18); i.e. fm THE SPIRIT (God/JESUS) to Jesus Christ (JESUS) to Holy Spirit (JESUS) as we do! He chgs into many more Glories to accompl His Will! SPIRIT!

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       It seems you are confused. I pray " that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him." - Ephesians 1:17
       
       Who is Lord Jesus Christ's God? (cf. John 20:17)

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       HIS SPIRIT that had never been IN FLESH!  Although sinless, the flesh was sinful! In ALL PLACES "SIMULTANEOUSLY!" THINK IN THE SPIRIT!  HE FILLS HEAVEN & EARTH - ALWAYS!

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       Rich kelleyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Norine
       The flesh of Jesus did not sin. He could have but didn't, one of the reasons the Father was well pleased.(I think) His example is ours to follow, because there is hope there, If He can we can. Our flesh does not have to sin. He didn't.

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   15. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Rich:  AMEN!  Rm 8:3-17 "...in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh..." "condemned sin in the flesh..." v.8 "So, then, they that are in the flesh cannot please God!"  That's what I've been trying to tell ALL - "Walk in the Spirit!"  This is a spiritual journ

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   16. 61

       Rich kelleyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Norine
       You implied that the flesh of Christ was sinful. Not true.  Do you think your flesh is sinful right now. If you don't understand where you stand in the flesh you certainly will not understand anything spiritual.

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   17. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       What part of "AMEN" don't u understand?  Didn't I say that Christ was SINLESS!  Gave u Scripture Rm 8!  Why argue? Foolishness! Me? Yes! Rm 3:23. That's why we have to CONTINUE to watch, fight & pray IN THE SPIRIT!

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       Rich kelleyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       My comments are in regards to your statement
       "HIS SPIRIT that had never been IN FLESH! Although sinless, the flesh was sinful! "
       His flesh was not sinful.

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   19. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       ALL flesh CAN sin!  Jesus DID NOT! That's why I said AMEN to you!  Now if u want to continue to call that a LIE so be it! I originally said ALTHOUGH SINLESS! Jesus was in heaven while walking on earth in flesh & in ALL other places simultaneously

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   20. 41

       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       @Norine
       
       My apologies, I should have been more specific. Who is the God of Christ Jesus as referenced in Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; Ephesians 1:3 & 1 Peter 1:3? (cf. John 20:17) What is his God's name?

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   21. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Who formed Himself and entered Mary's womb?THE SPIRIT whose name is Jesus! Col 1:16-17Scripture was written so "man" could relate.  Jesus is a Spirit who fathered Himself! We're talking about THE SPIRIT not a MAN! The Spirit is everywhere simultaneou

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       So you're saying that the name of Jesus' God is ... Jesus?

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   23. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JOE: I'm saying JESUS IS GOD!  We're talking THE SPIRIT here! Matt 28:18 says "ALL POWER!.." If ALL POWER was given Jesus, where is God? Asleep? Col 1:16-17;20. Answer question under Brad's name please. RICH: II Cor 5:21

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       PlanksandNailsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Jesus is not God. "In your Law it is written that the testimony of TWO PEOPLE is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself, AND the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” - John 8:17-18  The Father AND His Son, Jesus Christ

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       P&N:Said "two"but He didn't need anyone but Himself, "The Father" HIS SPIRIT that sent Him (Sent Himself) beareth witness of me."Read on V19 ".if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." Why? He's FATHER! SPIRIT CAN DO THAT! MAN CAN

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   26. 41

       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       @Norine
       
       "Do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One." - Matthew 23:9
       "There is actually to us one God the Father." - 1 Corinthians 8:6
       
       So, according to you, Jesus is also the Father, correct?

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   27. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Joe: Not according to me but according to SCRIPTURE! Who else but "I AM" can do this? Don't Limit Jesus! He fills BOTH heaven & earth! Col 2:2-3 "..mystery of GOD, & of the Father, & of Christ" Do u think these r 3? NO! GLORIES! JESUS IS

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   28. 41

       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       So you think that Jesus is also the Father, yes?

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   29. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JOE:  Don't you? If you have studied Scripture (in the spirit) you would KNOW!  For He will lead and guide you into ALL truth!  My God! I'm 65 yrs old I don't have time to "play religion!"  Jesus is tired!

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   30. 41

       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       This is what the Bible actually teaches:
       "You, O Jehovah, are our Father." - Isa 63:16
       "There is actually to us one God the Father." - 1 Cor 8:6
       "Know that Jehovah is God." - Ps 100:3
       Only The Father, Jehovah, is ontically God Almighty, no one else.

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   31. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JOE:  Acts 17:11; John 20:28; I Cor 2:7;10;12-16;12:3; Jn 1:1-14; Heb 1:1-14; Col 1:9-17; 26; Eph 3:8-9; Col 2:2-3;9 so many more. We're talking THE SPIRIT who operates in GLORIES simultaneously!  This is a mystery!  Col 2:8!  JESUS IS "I AM!"  AMEN!

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       And just how do those passages refute the ones I shared which clearly show that only Jehovah is God Almighty and our heavenly Father?

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   33. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JOE:If u wish to cont to live under the days of creation vs the New Covenant, they don't! Jesus has moved us into a "new" dispensation & ALL POWER is n His Hands which is n us by the Power of the Holy Spirit! Matt 28:18; Jn14:26;Heb 8:10:10:16;Ac

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       PlanksandNailsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Norine,
       You are being nonsensical. Jesus said "I am NOT ALONE." John 8:16; 16:32. These scripture verses makes the "Jesus ONLY " doctrine a heresy by the mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus testifies that He and the Father are "two" persons.

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   35. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       P&N: "Two Persons?"  Two Gods? Man-Made Lie! Trinity?  Holy Spirit is "I AM" whose name is JESUS!  He is NOT alone for He is "ALL!"  Think "in the Spirit!"  I Cor 2:14!

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   36. 75

       PlanksandNailsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       No two Gods, or Trinity, but one YHWH AND His Son. By your logic the blind man in John 9:9 is God too using the words "I am," (ego eimi) These are the same words Jesus Christ used.Greek speakers used this expression much like we would say "It is me."

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   37. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       P&N: Witness Script n OT were concealed NT revealed! Jesus sent disciples out 2 by 2 as witnesses! Mk 6:7;Lk 10:1. II Cor 13:1 says "This is the 3rd time..." & not rel to char! "Blind man" isn't the Holy Spirit which we are discussing!  John

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   38. 75

       PlanksandNailsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Your can't even see by your own evidence that you have refuted yourself AND your "Jesus only" doctrine." 1+1=2. Two by two" means two people in pairs. 1+1=2. "Two witnesses" is two persons. 1+1=2. One God the Father AND one Lord Jesus Christ. 1+1=2.

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   39. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       P&N:U sound like a Pharisee!Mk 6:7="two by two"Lk="pairs!" Either way two were sent out as witnesses!U wish u could find error as they did w/Jesus, but no can do!  Jesus is ALL! Father, Son & Holy Spirit therefore don't need witness! Can C if

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       @Norine
       You're doing nothing more than repeating the same heresy of the Quicunque Vult. Before its concoction,  about five hundred years AFTER Christ was sent to Israel by his God and Father, Jehovah, nobody believed such amphigory.

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   41. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Joe: Don't no what the Quicumque Vult is (man-made=foolishness) don't care to find out! I give Scripture!Num 23:19.I Cor 12:3"..no man can say that Jesus is Lord but by the HS!" Doubting Thomas="My Lord & My God" when he saw Jesus!Jn 20:28 Why no

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You would do well, then, to educate yourself for you are, albeit unwittingly apparently, propagating the same mendacity of those APOSTATES.

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   43. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JOE: I have the HOLY SPIRIT to teach and guide me into ALL truth, & you would do well to seek it for you are, albeit unwittingly apparently, propagating the same mendacity of those SCRIBES AND PHARISEES! Matt 23:13; Luke 11:53. No time to "play"

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Prove it. Prove that you're actually being guided by the holy spirit and not some demonic spirit.

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Joe: U prove it thru Scriptures I've given u by looking at them "In the Spirit" w/an "open mind" seeking Jesus is God! Don't look at Script "carnally" as father & son but THE SPIRIT Who can perform ALL actions! I KNOW, It's for u TO FIND OUT! Stu

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Neither one of you can prove you're being guided by an invisible, magical spirit.   saying you are doesn't mean anything at all.

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       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The key word is, "invisible", also imaginary.

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       @Austin
       
       Prove your claim. Prove our Creator is imaginary.

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       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       No, YOU prove that there is a god first.

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       "Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." Since you can't present evidence for your outlandish claim consider it dismissed

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   51. 86

       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       "Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." Since you can't present evidence for your outlandish claim consider it dismissed That quote goes double for you!

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If exceptional intellect is required to merely duplicate the breathtaking daedal designs and systems present in nature (Biomimetics) then much more the original being replicated. Creation thus represents unshakable proof of our Creator's existence.

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If that were true,  it would only provide evidence of A creator.   You'd still have to prove that your creator is the one responsible.

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       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       And who's "exceptional intellect" is required to create your creator? Unshakable? Hardly. It's only your opinion, you still have no proof.

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       @Julie
       And now you understand why billions of rational people the world over are Theists instead of Atheists.
       
       @Austin
       That would be relevant if and only if our Creator began to exist. Since he's always existed though ... http://bit.ly/SSsy8x

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   56. 86

       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The entire universe has always existed. (matter cannot be created or destroyed). So, the entire universe is your god then.

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   57. 0

       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Well, if the universe always existed, then God always existed.  And BTW, where is your tangible evidence that the universe always existed?  Because Carl Sagan said it?

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       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       No, because the universe physically exists now. It existed in the past and will exist in the future and physics tells us that matter cannot be created or destroyed. Take a physics class and figure it out. It's not even hard to do that math.

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   59. 0

       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Who invented the math?  Who invented the physics?  Who also existed in the past, exists now, and will exist in the future?  God.

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   60. 86

       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If by god, you mean man, then you are right. Mankind invented the physics and math.

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   61. 0

       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       God invented math and physics--mankind just figured it out and discovered it was there all along!

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   62. 86

       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If you say so.

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       Joseph O Polancoposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       @Austin
       
       Wrong. The universe is +/- 13.70 billion years old. That means that there was a time when the universe did not exist. Everything that begins to exist always has a cause. In this case, God.

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   64. 86

       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Wrong, what was here befor that time? Another universe? Or the same one? This same universe has been here all along. It didn't come from anywhere and it hasn't gone anywhere. It never will. Where would it go? What u see is what. U get. Infinetely

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Star,  you can say god invented math and physics the same way I can say that magic did.   But it doesnt mean anything just to say it.

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   66. 86

       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Joseph and Stargrl - Please read http://hub.me/a7Q2N and try to follow along. We tried to use small words to explain life, the universe and everything. The comments are even better than the hub!

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   67. 0

       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I read that hub before.  It doesn't change a thing for me.

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   68. 86

       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       And yet you have the nerve to call yourself a 'free-thinker'!  You make me laugh.

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   69. 0

       Stargrrlposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I am a free thinker.  But I disagree with your theory and have dismissed it.  I have decided not to buy into it.

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   70. 70

       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Deciding not to buy into something doesn't make that something in any way untrue.   It sounds to me like you have decided to just believe in one of the many gods proposed & you're not the least bit interested in whether or not its true.

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   71. 86

       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Yet another example of mind control by a 2,000 year old book that totally depends on dogma, repetition and blind faith.

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   72. 70

       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The comment that involved name calling and personal attacks has been deleted.

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8. 50

   Norine Williamsposted 9 years ago

   Jesus stated in Jn 16:13 that the Spirit of truth would “…guide us into all truth…” Matt28:19 commanded us to “…teach all nations…”   
   What “religion” calls the Great Commission was necessary because Scripture says in Acts 8:25-40, Philip was “lead by the Holy Spirit” to go unto Gaza, he found a eunuch reading Isaiah and asked him if he understood what he was reading.  The eunuch replied, “How can I, except some man should guide me?”  Rm 10:14 says, “How, then, shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?  And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?  And how shall they hear without a preacher?” As Disciples of Christ, it is our duty to initially guide by planting seed (the Word of God) as stated in I Cor 3:6-8, which says, “I have planted, Apol’los watered, but God gave the increase.”  God, whose name is Jesus, the Holy Spirit, whose name is Jesus, will give the increase!  (Jn 14:26)
   Remember, Disciples of Christ, are human but not in the “carnal” sense but filled with the Holy Spirit which “leads and guides us” as it did with Philip in Acts 8 above!
   The Scriptures are necessary for guidance and to be read “in the Spirit” praying and believing for revelation from the Holy Spirit.  II Tim 3:16 says “All scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.”   
   Scriptures are interpreted differently (1) Because “man” has changed portions of the Scriptures and “men” not filled with the Holy Spirit read literally and interpret not in accordance with the Holy Spirit.  However, if filled with the Holy Spirit you will be “lead and guided into ALL truth!” (2) Eph4:7-29 says “But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.”  (13) “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;” You see, we have different measures of grace however will “…come in the unity of the faith…”  by the grace of God.
   Remember, Peter and Paul had different measures of grace as shown in Gal 2:7-21 regarding circumcision.  Verse 21 “I do not make void the grace of God; for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”
   Gal 3 explains it all!  When Disciples of Christ are given more grace and/or new revelation according to Scripture but not according to “tradition” - disputes occur!

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      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      TO "ALL!" :   I CORINTHIANS 12:1-31 BUT VERSE 3 IN PARTICULAR WHICH SAYS "...NO MAN CAN SAY THAT JESUS IS THE LORD, BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT!"  JESUS IS GOD!

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Any more shouting or preaching that does not address the question will be deleted.   This is not your open forum to preach your version of the Gospel. It's my question.

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      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      John 16:2

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      This isn't a synagogue or a church.   It is a question I started.   Secondly equating being asked to stick to the topic of the question to killing you is ridiculous.   You can ask your own questions and write your own hubs for preaching.   Not mine.

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   5. 50

      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I thought YOUR question was for everyone’s response.  I did & on point.  Some found my belief “inappropriate” due to “tradition” & questioned. I was not screaming, but wanted ALL to see repeated responses! Matt 18:20; I Cor 2:14

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      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      When you type in all caps on the Internet,  it indicates screaming.   In addition,  you know that people have seen your responses as they've addressed them.   They do not,  however,  have to agree with them.

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   7. 50

      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      JM:And the majority don't which causes further "discussions!"  II Tim 3:16. Religion, tradition, and unbelief is really the culprit! Prov 3:5! I enjoy proving the "Truth" in His Word! All I ask is that 1 Study II Tim 2:16 with  open mind Acts 17:11

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   8. 70

      JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Disagreement with you is not the topic of this question.   If you want to have further discussions (and what the purpose is of all your quotation marks is beyond me) then you're free to have them on your own hubs and questions.   Not mine.

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   9. 50

      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      JM: I can't resp to questions re:HS? My last post w/Joe speaks to HS! Topic HS? Why ask quest re:HS if u don't want HS discussed? Blk me fm all of YOUR quest if you don't want "Truth" given fm Scripture!Quotes ="repetitive responses." Jn15:8;16:2-3

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   10. 70

       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       1.  Saying something is true does not make it true.   2. Just because you think there is no God the father or Holy Spirit and that all three of them are just Jesus doesnt make your responses on topic.  This is behavior I'd expect out of a 12 yr old.

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   11. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM:  Great!  I know then that the Holy Spirit IS speaking through me! Thank you JESUS!  (Gal 1:10-16). Matt 18:1-14 says you MUST "become as little children..."! I have "...become a fool..."(I Cor 3:18)! Jesus is the Holy Spirit! Jn 14:26;16:13

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   12. 70

       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       norine,  listing Bible verses do nothing to carry a conversation or discuss the topic of the question.  Please move further discussions that are off topic and do not relate to the question to your own hubs or questions,  or I will delete them.

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   13. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM: How can one discuss HS w/o using Scripture? Gal 4:16?

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       pick a verse and discuss it.   Christians do not agree on what many,  if not all,  verses mean.   You don't need 10 verse references in one 250 character post with no actual discussion. Everyone else seems to manage.

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   15. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Scripture says "Where there are two or three witnesses, the Word is established!"  Deut 19:15; Matt 18:16 & II Cor 13:1.  Knowing this, I provide establishment of the Word!  You need my email address?  We need to talk!

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       PlanksandNailsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Norine,
       Read the surrounding context of the verses you posted. The verses about "two or three witnesses" is about confronting/ charging a brother in sin/ crime, not establishing your pompous false religion that butchers Scripture as the "Word."

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   17. 70

       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If how you converse here is similar to how you converse in email,  we do not need to talk,  nor am I interested in your interpretation of a book I've read dozens of times myself.

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   18. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM:  If Scripture is not what you want to hear, then we don't have anything to converse about!  I Cor 2:14; Rm 1:28,  I pray not!  I do pray that He "...give u the spirit of wisdom & revelation in the knowledge of him..." Ephesians 1:17-18!

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       Austinstarposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Julie, you must be the most tolerant hubber in the world. I would have deleted all of the garbage that Norine is putting here.

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   20. 70

       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You're the one that said we needed to talk,  Norine.   I disagreed. I have no problem with discussing the Bible,  but I want an actual discussion,  not someone only posting verses at me like a child and Insisting that everyone is wrong except them.

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   21. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM:  Scripture is all I have!  I love one trait about you, you have an "open mind," willing to listen & try to understand Jesus' doctrine!  Austin:  You can delete comments but not the truth in the Word of God!

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   22. 70

       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       If you're incapable of having a conversation and not just post Bible references,  why are you on a discussion site?   That's not a conversation.   Why not just write on your own hubs If you're not interested in having an actual conversation?

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   23. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM: I believe in Scripture that says God cannot lie! I am man, you are man, but the Word of God IS!  When correcting my children, in all things, I confer with Scripture & can't go wrong! I assumed that Religion area discussed Script but found dif

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       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       That has nothing to do with what I said.   This is why I don't think you understand the concept of a conversation.  You just want to say whatever pops into your head and hijack every thread on other people's questions because you like it.

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       PlanksandNailsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Norine,
       It's easy to spam dogma with cherry-picked Bible verses. Why don't you give yourself some credibility here on HP and write an article instead of being a troll, but then again they hate accountability and thorough examination of their words.

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   26. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM: What part didn't u understand?  God's Words r true! Yours & mine less credible! Who cares what our opinions are for we have no heaven or hell to put anyone in!  That's my belief!  Num 23:19. HS hijacked!  P&N: II Tim 4:2-5. Disputes occur

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   27. 70

       JMcFarlandposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I don't think you understand that saying something is true doesn't make it true.   You have to demonstrate it.   And your interpretations conflict with everyone else's inspirations.   There's no reason to believe you over anyone else.

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   28. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       JM: It's not about what I say but Scripture!  Jn 5:39! Study! I've given Script that's all I can do! Jn 6:44. Problem=religion=others' inspirations! Matt 7:13-14. I pray that your eyes are enlightened!

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       celafoeposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       julie-  norine is a pentacostal and is taugh to just bomb their way in and take over.   She does not understand scripture and has no desire for truth you are wasting your time with her (so did I until she finally showed her real selt)

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Charlie: U & I agree on baptism n the name of the Lord Jesus which is n the minority so why do u speak like this concerning Jesus is "I AM?" Because HS hasn't revealed to u as yet? I've given scriptures yet u r as the majority when it comes to TR

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       wba108@yahoo.composted 7 years agoin reply to this

       "The Spirit of truth would “…guide us into all truth…"
       
       You're of course correct, the plain reading of the scripture trumps any supposed human wisdom.

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   32. 50

       Norine Williamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       "They worship w/their "gut"(Phil3:9)!
       Since this comment, it has been revealed (2Cor3:18)there is "ONE BAPTISM"(Eph4:5) & that's "w/FIRE"(JnMatt3:11;Lk3:16;Acts1:5)!
       Man can't "deny WORD" or doesn't LOVE GOD!

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   Rich kelleyposted 9 years ago

   Act 1:4-8  And being assembled together with them(disciples), He(Jesus) commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
   
   These words are the departing statements of Christ. The words are being told to the disciples some of which were the apostles.  The people already believed, they called Him Lord.  The Holy Spirit was going to be a gift to empower them to be witnesses. The testimony they had was because they were there and actually had something to witness about. Today many witness what they have been told to witness by the institutional church. Today many witness according to their own minds claiming the spirit or an angel told them. The Holy Spirit because it is spirit and cannot be quantified has become the excuse for anything that anyone wants to say or do.  Because of man and his claims of the Holy Spirit there is more apostasy than you can shake a stick at. It is what the human wants to believe there for it is made so.
   
   Many of the beliefs that people have in God are subjective and that is fine, faith makes a lot of things possible, however people want others to take their faith as facts. These what I call "Faithfull facts" cause division because those that are not like minded can see no fruit/proof. More often than not the hypocrite is the rotten fruit that others get to see. The first time I saw myself on video I became embarrassed because I didn't think I looked and sounded like I really did. We rarely see what others see. From the time we leave the womb our eyes are watching everything.  Until the faith speakers begin to display some visual effects of their beliefs, nothing will change and we shall be known as speakers and hearer of the word not doers.

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      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      If it's in Scripture, It's the Holy Spirit!  (II Tim 3:16)  Ur right we can only "see" to the ext the HS allows us! Rm 12:3 Limited "measures of faith!"  However, some man has told you!  It's up to u to STUDY! (II 2:15)

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      Rich kelleyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hard to fit all you want to say in 250 characters.

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      Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Concerning I Cor 2:7 ..."the wisdom of God in a mystery..." What do you think the "wisdom of God" is if not the Word of God?  Col 1:26 I Cor 2:10 II Cor 4:3

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    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    Been reading answers and comments for a few days now.  Interesting, to say the least. 
    
    Jesus said in the Holy Bible, "No one can come to God except the Father draw him."  (paraphrased)  It is the Father's job to draw man to God.  It was Jesus job to die for the sins of the world and now to intercede for those who call upon His name.  The job of the Holy Spirit is to guide believers into all truth, to empower them and to comfort them.
    
    Jesus told the disciples to go out into the world and spread the good news.  The good news is that salvation has come.  How can they believe if they have not heard?  Conversion is not in the hands of evangelists, only preaching the Word.  The conversion comes through choice, when conviction comes upon a person.
    
    The Holy Bible is not meant to be interpreted privately.   It is to be revealed by the Holy Spirit.  Many do err by interpreting it on their own, and I am also included in that number.   The Holy Bible is needed because we do not always listen to the voice of God and also as something to gauge what we hear in the spirit.  Too many think God speaks to them but it goes against the Holy Bible, proving what they heard is wrong. 
    
    I must add a disclaimer.   I don't mind comments as long as they are civil.  Those who want to start a fight with me over this answer, will be ignored.

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Not alone!  Tell Paul that (He & HS) on the way to Damascus!  Sir: I have given Scripture saying we should  teach, preach and plant "seed" (Word of God) in unbelievers. Yes, HS gives inc!  Pls give Scriptures for ur belief! II Tim 3:16

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Joh_6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. We can preach til we are blue in the face, the Father has to draw them first.

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       True Sir!  But we must teach (Matt 28:19), preach (II Tim 4:2) and plant seed (I Cor 3:6) which says (and I agree) "... but God gave the increase!"

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Norine, you and I are saying the same thing, just doing it in different ways.

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       Norine Williamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you Sir!  Sorry I misunderstood.  Have a terrible head cold!   Blessings!

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       no bodyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Sir Dent, You made my comment clearer. Thank you. It was worded perfectly.

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       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You're welcome Robert.  I am still getting used to the name changes here.  I didn't realize it was you at first.

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