For those at one with God, every birth is their own reincarnation

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  1. lone77star profile image73
    lone77starposted 10 years ago

    Love really is the answer.

    When we take 100% responsibility for everything that happens to us, we take the perpetrator's viewpoint, too. We can no longer be a victim. I first felt this transcendent feeling in 1977, when I realized that the multiple assaults I had received in traffic were my own creation. Suddenly, it didn't matter what anyone else might do to me. I was blissfully invulnerable.

    The next moment, another miracle happened just as profound as the true forgiveness I had just experienced. Within 5 seconds, 2 miles of 6-laned Wilshire Boulevard cleared the center, westbound lane. Empty! And the lanes, left and right, were doubly thick with bumper-to-bumper traffic. An impossibility made reality.

    Six years earlier, I had experienced an even greater miracle. I had, during spiritual counseling, experienced such a cessation of ego that I could suddenly see again with spiritual eyes. I stood in empty space, 12 feet off my body's left shoulder and 15 feet above the ground. I could see clearly the evening sky of L.A. overcast reflecting the city's countless lights. I could see the well-lit parking lot, next door. I could see the cracks in the pink stucco of the outside of the church building in which my body still sat. But I wasn't casting a shadow on that wall. That made me self-conscious, and suddenly I was wrapped in ego, again.

    I have remembered thousands of past lives, most only in snippets of scenes that I know have forgotten again. But a few of those past lives remain vivid in my current memory. One of them from 11,600 years ago.

    To deny our true selves is to favor evil.

    Reincarnation is implied many times in the Bible. And even the one favorite passage of non-believers, Hebrews 9:27 actually does nothing for or against reincarnation. … -bible.php

    But if we take the viewpoint of Christ, being one with God, we are full of love, empathy, responsibility, faith, humility, generosity, wisdom, compassion. And every birth that happens is our own. Every death is our own. Every success is our own. So, we need to celebrate more and be grateful for everything.

    Even when we suffer, we need to be grateful. For that will release the burden of karma (a product of ego) of which Jesus told us, and about which we were warned in Numbers 14:18.

    Love really is the answer. It is the kind of love that gives without end, loves unconditionally and celebrates every event, large and small. We have a preference for success and well-being, because these empower us all.

  2. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 10 years ago

    Hmm. I don't think reincarnation is impossible. Yet, it isn't (by a long shot) the norm. The miniscule number of verifiable cases, coupled with the fact that the vast majority have no moments of deja vu, leads me to assume that expecting to be reincarnated into another human form is unreasonable. If God exists, reality as we perceive it is the image of God. We, as a species with the ability to ponder reality, reflect the ability of the source of reality to ponder. Nothing more, IMO.

    I assume, upon death, the energy which manipulates our ability to ponder becomes reabsorbed into the whole, and subsequently cycles into other tasks involved in driving reality. The chance of all parts that comprise what is uniquely us maintaining unity and becoming the driving force of another human appears to be slim; thus explaining the rare phenomena of reincarnation. I'm suspicious of 'spiritual advisors' who help people remember past lives. I'd be curious to know how much money passed hands in your efforts to 'remember'. The fact that you have subsequently forgotten these memories is problematic and leads me to be less than inclined to believe the memories were real in the first place.

    Out of curiosity, I would be interested in understanding what purpose you think might have been served by an incident where hundreds of drivers were inconvenienced simply because you found traffic frustrating. I would assume a higher power might have found a less problematic solution. Seriously. Your road rage couldn't have been helped in the long haul by a miraculous lane clearing. What do you think the ultimate reason was for the claimed phenomena?

    1. lone77star profile image73
      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Emile, thank you so much for your thoughtful answer.

      I see a number of possibly "fixed ideas" on your part, no doubt driven by personal experience and learning. That's normal. But consider for a moment emptying your cup of knowledge. Pour it all out. You can pour it back in, in a moment. You cannot learn anything new if your cup is already full.

      When we talked before about my "miracle" on Wilshire Boulevard, you came up with clever reasons to reject it, rather than asking probing questions to find out more. Curious. A lack of questions seems to indicate that your cup was quite full -- a bias toward what you already had in your "cup" of experience and worldview.

      Reincarnation not the norm? How do you know? When reincarnation typically happens with a blanket of forgetfulness, that may be the apparency (that it's not the norm). A lack of awareness of mu mesons and hyper-baryons doesn't mean they don't exist.

      But consider for a moment an Australian bushman being told of giraffes. He may be skeptical, because he's never seen one. He's heard people talk of them, but only rarely. Giraffes are not the "norm." But amongst the giraffe population, they don't seem rare to themselves. To consider giraffes impossible or even rare is an argument based on lack of evidence (an argumentum ad ignoratum fallacy). Plop your body in the midst of a giraffe herd and they suddenly don't seem so rare anymore.

      Granted, this is an inadequate analogy. I posit that reincarnation likely occurs with millions, if not billions, of us. Perhaps some experience it more than others. That I don't know for certain.

      You talk of the topic of reincarnation and "life after death" as one consisting of exchanges of energy. That's understandable. For a blind person to talk of color would be unusual, if they had been blind their entire life.

      But spirit is not energy. Spirit does not consist of these crude, physical things like space, time, energy or mass. Because of this separation of creator and created, miracles are possible. A cog in the machine cannot normally redesign and reconfigure the machine (mechanical analog of miracle).

      Reincarnation seems rare because of ignorance. As immortal spiritual beings, we are "dead" asleep. We are unconscious. We took the forbidden fruit. For most of my life I wondered what that "fruit" might be.

      "Fruit" is a word that means "product" or "end result." The name of the Tree gives us a clue as to what that fruit really is. It was the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. These are dichotomies -- a common component of Newtonian, action-reaction, physical reality. And it wasn't a physical tree, just as the Tree of Life, also mentioned in Genesis 3, is not a physical tree, but a pattern of concepts detailed in the Kabbalah's "Tree of Life." In fact, I discovered this Tree embedded in 2 chapters of Genesis -- laying in plain sight all these hundreds of years.

      You suspicions of spiritual advisers is understandable, but the proof is in the results. The counseling I received was much more than merely remembering past lives. That was only part of it. The results were greater peace and a sense of well-being, incredible happiness that persisted through even the toughest of times, a solid self-confidence that seemed impenetrable, and spiritual abilities that continue to astound and inspire me.

      My first spiritual counseling session was when I was in my senior year of high school. I was taking evening classes at the Church in DC. Commuting, plus classes made it difficult to do all of my homework. My usual A's and a few B's had turned to a few A's, mostly B's, some C's and my first ever D's. My lowest grades were in English literature because of the abundance of reading and memorization assignments.

      I feared that I might fail the mid-term in English literature and told my parents of my concern. They arranged for the counseling session the weekend before mid-term review. The counselor merely asked me questions, pointing my mental attention in directions I would not normally consider. I don't think any of this involved past lives, though it was 45 years ago, and the details a bit hazy.

      The results, though, were quite memorable. During English Lit class, my mind felt like a sponge soaking up details like I had never before experienced. Montgomery County, Maryland was the 3rd highest scholastically rated school district in the country for the late 1960s. I thrived on the challenges. And, when the mid-term exam came, I made the only A in the class. That shifted my grade from D to C for the semester.

      You can remain suspicious all you want of spiritual counselors. Some, no doubt, are charlatans, but not all. Like I said, it's all in the results. Why would anyone pay for a psychiatrist? Does the doctor need to eat and pay their rent? I wonder where your concern comes from.

      I'll answer your last paragraph separately.

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        I think all cups are full, not with liquid mixed together but with pebbles that can be removed to allow other pebbles of knowledge to be added. You, too, appear to have a full cup. I have no aversion to accepting evidence, if offered, and being inclusive of new ideas. However, most of your assertions appear (to me) to be ego driven.  I see no evidence which leads me to believe a cosmic force seeks to feed our egos or is waiting to accept our egos at any point. Belief in reincarnation always into human form feeds the ego. Belief that a cosmic force gives a hoot about rush hour traffic feeds the ego. My understanding of the words and actions of the most spiritual people known through the centuries don't support the feeding of the individual ego so it's hard to ignore their examples

    2. lone77star profile image73
      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Emile, I really wish you would re-read the first 3 paragraphs, again. Where did you get this "road rage" fixation? Is your cup so full that you misread or even omitted reading what I really wrote and made up something to put in its place?

      The miracle never would've happened if I were frustrated. Frustration was not the active ingredient. While it's true that frustration preceded the miracle, it was not directly involved in the creation of that miracle.

      But there were two miracles (again, please re-read). The first involved switching my attention and awareness from enraged frustration to relaxed bliss in an instant. That does not normally happen. All too frequently, forgiveness is difficult for humans. We cling to our resentment.

      After that switch, there was no frustration. I could've cared less about reaching my destination any faster. (I mentioned this, but you missed it.) The other drivers could've rammed my car, destroyed my body, and I would not have cared. I took 100% responsibility for their actions. And a beautiful thing happens when you take 100% responsibility: You can no longer be a victim. Emile, for one moment in your life, stop thinking like you're a body.

      This was a rare occurrence of taking a spiritual viewpoint rather than a human viewpoint. And this switch would never have happened if I had not had the hundreds of hours of spiritual counseling over the preceding decade. If I had spent millions of dollars on it, it would've been worth every penny to me.

      I had already experienced dozens of miracles prior to this day. I already knew the mechanics of creation -- picturing an idea (goal) and allowing that goal into physical reality. Frequently, the miracles were instantaneous. Where they were not, they occurred at the arrival of the first available participant, mere seconds after the "creation."

      It still amuses me that you fixate on "road rage." Do you have some rage of your own that you're nurturing? (I ask that not to get an answer, but to have you reflect, inwardly. In the OP I did not linger on rage or frustration; but it's curious that you did.)

      The purpose of the miracle? I've studied those memories for over 3 decades wondering about purpose, and how to make such a state of mind and spirit more permanent.

      My current understanding is that all of the miracles I've experienced were merely me learning to "walk" spiritually. They were part of me waking up -- letting go of mortal selfishness (rage, frustration, jealousy, apathy, and all the other negative emotions). But I've come to learn that those incidents of miracles were also about letting go of positive selfishness, too (mortal goodness, generosity, compassion, love, and others).

      Over the years of study, since I left Scientology in 1986, I have learned in Buddhism the meaning of samsara and the paramitas (perfections). I have learned the difference between mortal confidence (ego, selfishness), and perfect confidence (spiritual faith). They are as different as night and day.

      The dichotomies of the Forbidden Fruit are what blind us to our spiritual nature and make reincarnation hard to remember. I discuss the dichotomous nature of physical reality in my hub, … tual-Fruit

      Take confidence, for instance. You have mortal confidence with its opposite, doubt. While you are in the dichotomous spectrum of states from doubt to confidence, you are at the mercy of the false self, ego (not the Western psychology term, but the Buddhist understanding of the source of suffering -- ignorance or selfishness).

      You can be 99.9999999999999999999999999% confident and still have a smudge of doubt that makes miracles impossible. The ability to perform miracles is like a light switch. It's like being pregnant. Either you're pregnant with the spirit or you are not -- 1 or 0. There is no in-between. At 100% (perfect) confidence, you have the paramita (perfection) of confidence -- the Zen Buddhist one-sided coin of confidence. This is the spiritual state of confidence, where there is never any doubt. There is only creation. There is only abundance.

      The purpose of the miracles was to demonstrate to the true self that it is time to wake up. It is time to put away childish things.

      It is time to put away ego (that false self which forever clamors to be first) and to be born again of the spirit.

      It took me 42 years to realize what actually happened in 1971 when I found myself outside of my physical body. Studying Scientology, Buddhism, Judaism, Kabbalah and Christianity all helped in that understanding. Love, generosity, spirit of giving, selflessness, elimination of ego -- all of these make it possible to lift the blindfold that once plunged us into darkness and made us "dead" asleep as spiritual beings.

      Soon, we won't need these Homo sapiens vessels, those of us who hunger for the reawakening. We will no longer need the temporary "blackboard" of mortal consciousness, because we will have regained spiritual, everlasting consciousness.

      I hope this helps to understand what happened during the miracle on Wilshire Boulevard, and the miracle of this current lifetime.

    3. lone77star profile image73
      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Emile, rereading your comment, I see I missed something in my reply.

      You said, "The fact that you have subsequently forgotten these memories is problematic and leads me to be less than inclined to believe the memories were real in the first place."

      I understand your doubt. Too many use the bias of doubt to fill their cup of understanding.

      You might find my article on Science and Religion helpful in overcoming the burdens of misunderstanding. … -religion/

      From a strictly scientific viewpoint, I have no "proof." But consider for a moment how well you remember what you had for breakfast 15 years, 3 months and 14 days ago. Or any other day of your early life. Not remembering those details does not mean they didn't happen. Again, you're relying on a logical fallacy (argumentum ad ignoratum, or argument to ignorance).

      Could some of the "memories" not have been of past lives? Absolutely.

      But the name of the game is not proof in a scientific laboratory, but one of increasing human and then spiritual ability. That has been accomplished!

      My most vivid memories of a past life came while writing a novel -- not during spiritual counseling. But I doubt I would've encountered those memories if I hadn't first had lots of practice locating past-life memories.

      If I use "doubt" as my guide in life, I'll never make any progress. Confidence is the tool that leads to progress. Too many use "reasonableness" as an excuse not to accomplish squat! Those who are confident are busy doing, while those who think of reasons are busy making excuses why they cannot.

      My memories of 11,600 years ago helped me craft a novel that was rich in details that were surprisingly, internally consistent, not only with the story itself, but also with history and myth. I kept writing things and then discovering evidence of them. The novel was about one woman who helped her fellow refugees survive the destruction of their homeland -- Atlantis.

      I can't tell you how many scientists use logical fallacies as excuses to keep from exploring the past reality of that legendary, lost island. Their incompetence can be found throughout the history of science.
      * Declaring Troy to be entirely and only myth. An amateur proved them wrong.
      * Declaring the legendary island of Ulysses home to be myth. An amateur may well have proved them wrong, again.
      * Declaring Amazon warriors to be only myth. A rare breed of scientist went against conventional "wisdom," and discovered in the burial kurgans of Southern Russia, women buried with their armor, while the men were buried separately with the children. And these burial kurgans were right where Herodotus had said the Amazons had migrated.
      * Declaring "Clovis first" to be the righteous dogma of science, and ridiculing all other scientists who dared to dig below the Clovis horizon. Today, "Clovis first" is dead, but the ego that helped to create it is live and thriving.
      * Declaring "cold fusion" to be a hoax and marginalizing all scientists who attempt to dig deeper into the discoveries of Pons and Fleischmann. Today, a few scientists understand why the phenomenon only works sometimes. They know what happens at a molecular or atomic level that modifies the effectiveness of the process. The "skeptics" were too biased to look. Their cups were full of doubt.
      * Declaring Atlantis to be nothing but a fiction made up by Plato. And yet, we have underwater structures near Bimini that go un-investigated merely because scientists are afraid that doing so would jeopardize their careers. As with the Clovis first dogma, the Atlantis blasphemy makes it science by ridicule, rather than the child-like awe and humility that scientists usually start with.

      And on the subject of Atlantis, my memories guided me to look in places that scientists dared not look. I have now discovered 3 pieces of scientific evidence that prove an Atlantis-like even occurred right when Plato said the legendary island subsided -- 9620 BC. … lato-Right … -proof.php

      As far as past lives, there have been a number of celebrated cases where details, seemingly impossible to remember, were confirmed by further research.

      See my "Reincarnation Stories" article, … tories.php

      It's funny that the skeptics use so many logical fallacies when attempting to "debunk" the stories. At best, they merely come up with alternative theories based on conjecture, rather than on fact, ignoring some of the facts of the case. Not very scientific, and quite indicative of the ongoing, major flaw in science -- the potent bias of doubt found in skepticism.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        ...fascinating. I'm listening Lone Star!

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago

    I like this post of Lone Star's. Of course, I would.

    Dear Lone Star,
          Do you think that 1Corinthians in NT, were the actual writings of Paul or other men in History? What would the proof be for either case? Are there records?  This is the argument a certain atheist offered me in not taking the Bible seriously.  Do You think this is a legitimate stance for anyone to take?

    1. lone77star profile image73
      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Kathryn,

      What value is proof? For the non-scientific subject of spiritual awakening, proof is irrelevant. If you have faith, you can walk on water. Demanding proof, first, means that you don't have faith and thus cannot walk on water. The need for "proof" is thus an unrealistic burden and blocks accomplishment.

      See my article on Science and Religion, … -religion/

      The funny thing with many scientists is that they get stuck in their own bias -- skepticism (which contains the potent bias of doubt). What they seem completely oblivious about is that they are using skepticism lopsidedly -- against one idea, but almost never against its opposite. They are not skeptical of their own skepticism. There's no balance. Only bias.

      Too many secularists or humanists treat a lack of proof as proof of a lack of existence. That's a logical fallacy. Lack of evidence never proves anything except that one currently does not have any supporting evidence.

      Scientists who derided Edison in his search for an incandescent light bulb also fell into this logical fallacy (argumentum ad ignoratum, or argument to ignorance).

      Prove that some of the books were written by Paul? I cannot. But what does that prove? Nothing of any real significance.

      The name of the game is spiritual reawakening. Do the writings of Paul help in this regard? If they do, then they are valuable toward that divine goal. An atheist will never get this. Their cup is too full of mortal, physical things.

      God created us in His image and likeness and He is not Homo sapiens. It's funny how many atheists simply do not get this. Sadly, so many so-called Christians do not get this, either. They're all thinking too much from a human viewpoint and missing the spiritual altogether.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        This answer to my question is a relief! Thank you so much for your wise and timely response. It has saved me.
        I enjoyed reading your research of Atlantis.
        I will check out "The Love of God" article you wrote.

  4. psycheskinner profile image82
    psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

    It is the stance of theologists and historians who studied the language the bible was written in and the earliest known examples of the texts.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
      Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      - do they advocate not taking these writings as true historical documents? I guess I better stick to the 'Gita... oh, its probably not valid either. So, I hope the Atheists can show us the way to happiness.
      Which they can't... so, I guess we're doomed.
      Do what you want, everyone!
      Do what you like!
      Live for yourself, and trust the discoveries of science.
      Be obedient to whatever idol you choose.
      My idol shall be my imaginary self.
      ....has been my whole life anyway. Why stop now?
      No, reason at all.
      After I loose my body, there will be no hell, and no reincarnation, there will be no life after death. Nothing.
      My life is now absolutely meaningless.
      I guess I shall just join in the fight of trying to convince believers not to believe. Sign me up boys. I enlist myself as one more pair of dark eyes.
      After all, what I do with my life produces no consequences whatsoever, except the guilt of my own conscience
      and I can get rid of that:
      the minimal conscience that I have now.
      So NOW, here I am in the land of true freedom.

  5. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago

    Did you hear me? I said wheeee!!!!  I am having fun believing in nothing...
    Am I doing it right? Is happiness still a warm puppy or a warm gun? is happiness still
    what I need
    so bad?
    Or do they give up on that too, eventually.
    ...who needs it?

    1. lone77star profile image73
      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I, too, have fun believing in the great "nothing."

      God is not made of time, space, energy or mass. Because we are inherently made in His image, we fit that description, too. This is not our physical bodies, or our similarly physical egos. Both are vulnerable, but the true self is not vulnerable.


      You create every emotion you experience. Practice creating with "faith" (perfect confidence).

      I use the word "faith" not as many of the religious use it -- belief in a religious doctrine or dogma, but perfect confidence as Peter had when he stepped out of his storm-tossed boat onto the unsettled Sea of Galilee to stand before his master.

      When you read my treatise on Science and Religion, … -religion/
      you'll see how both are complementary fields and how science needs to have a new paradigm to replace their tarnished, biased "skepticism."

      When you give to others without thought of return, you are waking up the true self. When you love unconditionally, you are waking up, spiritually. When you take 100% responsibility for everything that happens to you, then you are laying to rest the false self of ego.

      Christ said that those who clamor to be first, shall be last. That is because they are approaching life through ego -- the source of all evil (selfishness).

      Those who are last (humble), shall be first.

      And "Love" really is the answer. Not mortal, physical lust, but generous, unconditional love, looking out for the well-being of others. Practice this. Practice also perfection of confidence. Picture your desired end result, and then let it go as if it is already manifest.

      Soon, you will find that happiness is effortless, because you will be well-practiced at creating it despite any storm that may rage around you.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        Got cha!

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago

    Did you hear me?
    Who needs to be happy?
    What is happiness to an atheist?

    1. lone77star profile image73
      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      No one "needs" to be happy. That's the viewpoint of a victim -- vulnerable.

      Simply create happiness. As a child of God, wake up and start creating.

      This is simple. But we humans are so well-practiced at making it complicated. Our fears drive us to create the opposite of what we want. Our doubts do the same.

      Many atheists and other "reasonable" people do not create, but wait for happiness to hit them upside the head. They are living at effect, rather than at cause.

      But you can still be blinded by ego if you live in the dichotomy of cause-effect. You have to go "perpendicular" and rise above the dichotomy to the one-sided coin of cause (create) -- the paramita (perfection) of cause.

      The trouble with many scholars is that they can't see past the literal. And that, regrettably, is a major problem with biblical literalists, too. It's the lazy approach. And when they insist that their interpretation is Truth or Right, then they are being arrogant, too. Laziness and arrogance do not make a pretty couple.

      "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" (2 Corinthians 3:6 KJV).

      The everlasting life of which Christ promised is not in the literal meaning of scripture, but in the spirit of it. To truly understand it, you have assume the viewpoint of spirit (the Holy Ghost, true self, soul, child of God) within.

      This, at least, is my current understanding. My personal, relative "truth" keeps changing as  I discover new things. Humility (the empty cup) continues to serve me well, when I remember to use it. And, thankfully, ego is growing pretty thin these days.

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
    Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago

    Lone Star has helped me.

    1. lone77star profile image73
      lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Glad to help. Now, help others.

      We have a new world to build as the old one dies away.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
        Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        That sounds like a great new forum discussion! I dare not post it, though.

        1. lone77star profile image73
          lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          I understand.

          Just keep growing, asking questions, and taking what you can from the answers. Keep what empowers you. Let go of the rest.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
            Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Just what I needed to hear. I get affected by those who do not agree with me... stupid!

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

              From whence does learning come?  Those that parrot back your own words and thoughts to you, or those with differing opinions and thoughts?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
                Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                hiya!  I know... you are right. you have also helped me immensely.  I am wanting to know the source of my own existence.  I really think that knowledge and belief ( in God ) will someday coincide.
                and I want that possibility to exist.
                You, wilderness, keep trying to take that possibility away from me. I want to be open to the possibility that I can perceive God's essence within me in some
                r e a l  place. and I want to be awake on the astral plane after I loose my body. Awake and aware.. Is that too much to ask?
                -if you think about it, our consciousness is a flow of energy usually directed outward into the reality we perceive around us... but what if we could direct that flow of consciousness inward toward the source of our beings... what a trip that would be!
                and real.
                Ask Lone Star...

                what a great debate you two could have!

                Lone Star! - care to go for a ride?

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image77
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
                2. lone77star profile image73
                  lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Kathryn, I learn more from you and your unique viewpoint than I ever could from a "flatworlder" like Wilderness. I only learn of his own blindness and arrogance.

                  I don't like using pejorative labels, but I currently have no time to debate someone who doesn't listen and doesn't want to change their mind (can't learn).

                  Jesus said it best. Walk away. If they don't want to listen, shun them. They destroy themselves.

                  Your hunger will lead you. The fact that you hunger to know God and to know your true self will serve you well.

                  There is no physical road or road signs to guide the way. Keep learning from the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the teachings of Buddha and even Scientology. Even though the "organizations" of religion have become corrupted by ego, many of the teachings are still pure, if you know how to look at them.

                  My views of religion and spirituality have evolved over the last 63 years. But I wonder sometimes if I might have had an advantage. Some of my earliest memories are of ontological musings about a repetitive dream of flying -- how effortless it was to fly, but then how insidious doubt can be in ruining the power of "faith." From those first musings at about age 1, to my first experience of miracles at age 21, I learned a lot about humility and forgiveness. That helped pave the way.

                  And when I first experienced my true spiritual self, walking the strands of space and perceiving all that was around me without any physical instrumentality (human eyes), it was because I had been shown that "love" is the way.

                  If Wilderness ever paid any attention, he'd know that I still love him. But I despise his ego. Just as you can love the person, but not the car they drive.

              2. lone77star profile image73
                lone77starposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                Funny that you would ask such a question, Wilderness. I certainly learn a lot from differing opinions. In creative writing class in college, I was perhaps the most prolific in sharing my work to receive the barbs and critiques of my fellow students and professor. Out of a class of 30 students, I took up perhaps 10% of the share time during the entire semester. Some students never shared anything for fear of learning their mistakes.

                But you, Wilderness, seem to blithely ignore facts and cuddle deep inside your own egotistical view of things. You discuss things until it gets down to the nitty gritty where you're proven wrong, and then you silently disappear. A lot of good that'll do you on learning.

                You're the type of person who would rather believe the government's lie that solid steel sometimes offers zero resistance to collapse. I have no respect for your kind of ego and lack of learning.

                I've changed my mind thousands of times in this current life, because learning and logic demanded it. I've had 3 successful careers -- Hollywood artist with screen credit, software engineer with a degree summa cum laude, and a published author and award-winning essayist. I only have a 139 IQ, but I think I've done rather well with it. Each of my brothers have far higher IQs and they're just as spiritual (religious) as I am. They have each remembered thousands of lifetimes in the course of their spiritual counseling.

                But you refuse to look at simple facts like those pertaining to 9/11:

                * WTC7 fell at perfect free fall for 8 floors (see NIST's own report and David Chandler's YouTube analysis for proof).

                * Free fall means ZERO resistance.

                * Solid steel never, ever offers zero resistance (except in cartoons and government reports).

                The American government lied about WMDs and stayed in Iraq for years after the discovery of the lie. How criminal is that?

                Mayor Giuliani committed a felony by destroying evidence at the largest crime scene in American history, over a year before the official investigation could even begin. Is he serving time for his crime?

                And guys like you, Wilderness, like to sling labels like "conspiracy theorist" aiming it at theories and FACTS indiscriminately. That says a lot about your use of your own "lofty" intellect. Relying so heavily on label slinging is a sign of a weak mind.

                Why? Because, believe it or not, there have been more than a few conspiracies in the history of humanity. If you think not, then you really are naive.

                But worse, is your reliance on government reports and Corporate Party media propaganda. I suppose you think in your perfect world that there have never been any greedy people willing to murder for billions of dollars. Or trillions. Do you suppose that criminals can't think that high? Or are criminals merely "too big to fail," like those the government bailed out on Wall Street. Your blindness is tantamount to complicity. And that makes me disgusted with your use of your intellect (or lack of use thereof).

                I used to enjoy debating with you, until I found out that you genuinely do not listen. Your responses are full of half-truths and logical fallacies.

                1. A Troubled Man profile image58
                  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Learning doesn't come from following and promoting conspiracy theories.

                  You rarely if ever tell the truth here, why would anyone believe that nonsense.

                  No, it is you who refuse to look at facts.

                  No, it doesn't, that is false. Chandler has been shown to be a liar, there are plenty of articles that have refuted his claims and shown him to be nutjob.

                  Conclusion drawn from false premise.

                  Red herring. Dishonest tactic. This has nothing to do with 911 towers.

                  Another red herring that has nothing to do with the towers, another dishonest tactic employed by conspiracy theorists.

                  You mean, like the labels you have been tossing out? Nice hypocrisy there.

                  Irrelevant, that does not prove anything about the towers. Another red herring.

                  Again, more red herrings and dishonest tactics presented by a typical conspiracy theorist.

                2. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  You're funny. 
                  You're the one that claims they can violate the laws of nature at will without offering proof beyond your word.
                  You're the one that thinks God pays special attention and answers your prayers out of those throughout the world without offering proof beyond your word.
                  You're the one that thinks proof is a conglomeration of ignorance and circumstantial evidence, expecting everyone to believe the nonsense because it is you making such silly claims..

                  And, at the end of the day, when I ask for something beyond your word that these impossible things actually happened, complain I have too much ego.

                  Too funny! lol

                3. Quilligrapher profile image74
                  Quilligrapherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Hello Lone Star. I am wondering if you are willing to take responsibility for posting false statements in this forum.

                  I believe your latest post proves that there are those who will make serious and false accusations without justification, and who are willing to twist and exaggerate the truth in the process. 

                  You repeat one seriously flawed accusation frequently and never seem to think it is necessary to support your character assassination with any supporting evidence. It is typical of those who rant about 9/11 to make absurd statements that turn out to be outright lies. I think it is time that you retire this lie from your often-repeated posts of unsubstantiated claims.

                  The lie goes like this…
                  “Mayor Giuliani committed a felony by destroying evidence at the largest crime scene in American history, over a year before the official investigation could even begin. Is he serving time for his crime?”

                  Before repeating this lie, Lone Star, did you do any independent research to determine if your claim was true or did you just cut and paste from one of your conspiracy web sites?

                  Had you done any research, you would have learned that the removal of debris from Ground Zero was not the Mayor’s decision!

                  “It was determined by the United States Attorney's Office, Southern District of NY; Barry Mawn FBI ADlC of the NY Division; and other officials that the rubble and debris from the entire WTC complex would be removed from Ground Zero and sorted for evidence, personal effects, and human remains. The debris that was not retained for the previously mentioned reasons was to be buried. The Fresh Kills Landfill, Staten Island, NY was reopened to handle the search through the rubble and material of Ground Zero.” {1}

                  The time has come to see if for you are responsible enough to publicly admit in this forum that the Mayor did not commit “a felony by destroying evidence.”

                  “The FBI's primary role at both Ground Zero and Fresh Kills was to search for evidence of the terrorist acts. The FBI was searching for the black boxes from the two planes, and any evidence from the hijackers, such as weapons, box cutters, identification, cellular telephones, and palm pilots. The FBI also played a humanitarian role in helping the City of NY to identify victims, and to recover human remains and personal effects.”

                  The time has come to see if you are responsible enough to publicly admit in this forum that the Mayor did not destroy evidence “over a year before the official investigation could even begin.”

                  “During the eleven months that the Fresh Kills site was operating, approximately 1.8 million tons of debris was sent from Ground Zero. Eight-member FBI ERTs [Ed.: Evidence Response Teams] were sent to Fresh Kills on two-week deployments to help sift and inspect the rubble. ERTs from 55 of the 56 FBI Field Offices participated. Some offices deployed more than one team (depending on office size), and other offices deployed teams more than once. Over 400 FBI employees were deployed to Fresh Kills during its operation. Marx is quoted in a January 15, 2002, Associated Press article stating that Fresh Kills was ‘the biggest crime scene in history.’” [Edited for clarity and emphasis.]

                  So, Lone Star, I sitll wonder if you are willing to take responsibility for posting false statements in this forum.


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