Atheists, what the hell is your problem?

1. 0

   TMDHemsley17posted 11 years ago

   Reading through a lot of the arguing and comments on this forum I've found that the problem with debates on here is that the Christians and other religious individuals on here tend to be of the more tolerant form, so when atheists give their arguments regarding religious discrimination and persecution of homosexuals and other groups, the argument seems nonsensical and pointless as the religious individual doesn't subscribe to those more extreme views, and so they're often ignored as irrelevant to that individual.
   
   To weigh in on this forum however, I believe that people should always question and criticise views that differ from their own, as it helps people to strengthen their views and learn how to better defend what they believe, and allows for greater reasoned argument and discussion. I find it rather 'religiously elitist' , if you will, the idea that an atheist must live a dark, depressing life due to their non-belief, and so they only 'attack' the religious out of some kind of jealousy. People shouldn't give into the restricting view that you need a God to have meaning and purpose in your life; make your own meaning. If I criticise religious people for such a view it's because I want them to realise that they are free to be who they are and don't have to shackle themselves to the archaic notion of a deity. Atheism (I don't particularly like the term but I will use it) isn't depressing, as you can find your own things to live for. The writer Douglas Adams once said "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?".
   
   Furthermore, I might criticise faith and belief in God as I believe in basing opinions of rationality and reason. The idea of God might make you feel better in times of hardship (you don't need it to get through trauma, although of course I wouldn't question someones religiosity when they're going through a difficult life period for issues of sensitivity) but that doesn't make it true. It would be much better if people thought out their views through logical argument rather than jump to a quick solution that sounds good.
   
   I firmly believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I also believe in free speech and freedom of expression, and so I feel people are fully entitled to, and should, question views they find disagreeable. People should actively welcome criticism of what they think rather than get angry and defensive at the slightest assessment of their beliefs.

   replyreport
   1. 0

      Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I would agree with much of what you wrote, but it troubles me that you assume that Christians have "locked themselves into an archaic deity" and that they don't feel "free to choose" while at the same time wanting others to believe being an Atheist wasn't a depressing choice (not that I had assumed that... or the point of jealousy) but here you ascribe a notion to one while saying you don't want anyone assigning a notion to your beliefs. It seems less than equal.

      replyreport
      1. 71

         getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         There is no evidence that Atheists are depressed, but it is a fact that Christians have "locked themselves into an archaic deity."  So you have no real rebuttal....as the claim made against Atheism is false, where as his claim against Christianity is true.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            lol... well... the whole "Atheists being depressed" thing wasn't my assertion.
            And restating his opinion doesn't authenticate it.

            replyreport
            1. 71

               getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I think you have entirely lost track of your own exchanges.  No one ever said that it was you who asserted "Atheist are depressed"  But what a great way to create a Straw Man diversion, so that you won't have to admit that you could possibly have jumped the gun.

               replyreport
               1. 0

                  Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  If that made sense to you then ok, I conveyed my point to the person I was addressing so Im good. Thanks.

                  replyreport
                  1. 71

                     getitriteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Sorry but you have tried to compare apple to oranges and have made no point whatsoever.   I just called you on it, and you are not humble enough to accept that truth.  How very Christian.
                     ...Oh! Thanks

                     replyreport
                     1. 0

                        Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        You do enjoy fighting.
                        My point, I will reiterate if you'd like.
                        I'd never heard the point of Atheists being a depressed group. He stated that he doesn't like the implication. He then stated with a rather broad stroke that Christians had become so outside of choice. Although Im sure there are some depressed Atheists and though I'm sure there are some Christians who claim the name because their ancestors did, that doesn't really affect my point which was that if it is wrong to use assumptions with one group, it should then be wrong to use assumptions with the other. Where you proved that point wrong, I'm not sure, but as I said, if you are content, I am too.

                        replyreport
                        1. 0

                           Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Much much better.

                           replyreport
                           1. 59

                              MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              That's actually what I was thinking.

                              replyreport
                              1. 0

                                 Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Glad you both approve.

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 59

                                    MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Just trying to spread peace through encouragement of effective communication.

                                    replyreport
                                    1. 0

                                       Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Some times we all miss one another's points due to this kind of medium... however there are times we strive to understand each other and times we barely finish a sentence before we start typing our own responses. Communication is a two way street and to me, at least, motive is the propellant. If our motives are good, it makes for a safer environment.

                                       report
                                       1. 59

                                          MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          I think most people's motives are good somewhere along the line. If someone hates religion... they generally have a pretty good reason to hate it. If someone loves religion, they generally have a pretty good reason for that too.
                                          
                                          I think most of the arguments you get into on here are mainly miscommunications. Just from an outside observer. Not trying to analyze or anything.

                                          report
                                          1. 0

                                             Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                             I analyze too... it's a curse.

                                             report
   2. 59

      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      To that point, it is the believer who is projecting their own lack of meaning and purpose in their lives upon those who are capable of creating meaning and purpose, they themselves are envious and jealous of those who can reason and rationalize their lives and who don't need some archaic notion of a deity to fill their emptiness with subservience and obedience, like some shackled slave.

      replyreport
2. 0

   Beth37posted 11 years ago

   y'all are just fighting, you should just move on.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, I'm not fighting. But yes, I'm done.

      replyreport
      1. 0

         Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Just said it cause I cared not for the strange meow effect the person Ive never seen before suggested.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            'sokay. I can see how it can be assumed that everything here is said in order to argue.

            replyreport
            1. 0

               Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               In an age where no one posts their name, pic or details of their life, Im impressed that you posted that. Im sure we're all familiar with that story to some extinct and being honest is something to be respected. Good for you. I think we're all the same to be honest with you. If we're here a lot, there's a reason for it. In real life I wish I could just be a hermit. I wish I lived in a cabin somewhere where no one bothered me. So it's so funny this whole "queen of the forum". The person who just wants to hide in real life is the queen of the ppl who don't want to be a part of the real world? What does that even mean? it's too funny. We're all a mess and that's ok cause Ive never met someone who wasn't.

               replyreport
               1. 59

                  MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  There are people here I've made connections to in real life but yeah when I come around it's either boredom or trying to avoid work. Generally the latter. Procrastination is my big issue now... and a bit of ADD.
                  
                  *Grins* even if I aspired to hermit-hood, I can't pull it off. I can see the allure sometimes though.

                  replyreport
                  1. 0

                     Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I met up with a group of scrabblers. We are all good friends. One of them is the man whose daughter was murdered last week. I love the women, they are all good ppl. I was drinking at the time. Made it so much easier.

                     replyreport
         2. 0

            Mklow1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I come here time to time to get a chuckle at the "debates". It helps my self-esteem.

            replyreport
            1. 0

               Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You're writing poetry on HP's... your ego could probably use a lot of boosting at this point.

               replyreport
               1. 0

                  Mklow1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I can guarantee writing poetry accomplishes more than arguing over whether or not God exists.

                  replyreport
                  1. 0

                     Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I do both.

                     replyreport
                     1. 0

                        Mklow1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        So, which one has added value to someone else's life? Poetry or preaching?

                        replyreport
               2. 0

                  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You going back to personal remarks that are not on topic.

                  replyreport
                  1. 0

                     Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Thank you for pointing it out.

                     replyreport
   2. 0

      Mklow1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      MEOW!

      replyreport
3. 57

   Ric1sterposted 11 years ago

   Your kind should have it's own little places to meet; so you would not bother others...umm, what were they called? OH YEAH! CHURCHES!!!

   replyreport
   1. 60

      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      uh-oh...

      replyreport
4. 57

   Ric1sterposted 11 years ago

   My GODS are older, than your GOD.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You don't "know" your Gods. much less their ages.

      replyreport
      1. 57

         Ric1sterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You don't, either...just my point, Poindexter.... I am a Wiccan.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Did you just call a woman you don't even know a name?

            replyreport
   2. 0

      jonnycomelatelyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thought I was the only male in this room apart from God.....nice to see you Ric1ster.  I have just come inside at 1.00pm after a morning gardening.... much better out in the sunshine than shut in a room with a computer and - and - oh heck, don't know what to say now...lol.  Hi, girls, you still talkin' to guys?

      replyreport
      1. 59

         MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I'll talk to you any day of the week love (although girlhood has long passed me by)

         replyreport
      2. 0

         Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You may often be the only male poster, jonny, but you're ALWAYS among the favorites, no matter the topic!

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I'm right here. But you will have to take my word that I'm male. Gross.

            replyreport
            1. 0

               Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Notice I said he's among the favorites.  As are you. 
               
               And I so take your word for it!

               replyreport
               1. 0

                  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks, cause if getting tired of sending pics of my… Gross, gross and gross.

                  replyreport
5. 89

   rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago

   With a thread title like this one, you know it's going to be nothing but a troll, rant fest.

   replyreport
   1. 57

      Ric1sterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Only, if we disagree...remember, if everyone's wrong, then NOBODY'S right...

      replyreport
      1. 0

         Mklow1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         My friend,
         
         I couldn't help but notice you don't have any Hubs, so if you are interested in the subject, maybe you should elaborate by writing a piece.

         replyreport
6. 86

   Phyllis Doyleposted 11 years ago

   Ranzi, I have not yet visited this forum, for, the title is a clear attack on a certain group of people who have a belief different than yours. Your title and accusations in your opening statement is generalized to include all atheists who have the inherent right to their own belief system, just as everyone does.
   
   I agree with Mklow1 -- I think you have enough thoughts on the subject to write a very interesting hub about this. However, I would like to suggest that you tone down your feelings and try to be a little more open to encourage amiable discussions from others. Like I mentioned, I have not visited your forum, but, I can tell by just reading your opening statement, that you can be a good writer with interesting viewpoints.
   
   I realize that there are people of all religions/belief systems that can be very negative and attack people of other beliefs -- but there are many more who are open and respectfully accepting of everyone's right to belief as they choose.
   
   I wish you all the best in your journey through life. I really think you have a gift of writing and writing well.

   replyreport
   1. 0

      Mklow1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      She did write a Hub on this. My comment was towards another Hubber.

      replyreport
      1. 86

         Phyllis Doyleposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Oh ! My sincere apologies, then. I was not enough aware of all the comments and honestly have not read any of them, except yours Mklow1. I was just irritated by the original opening post and the title and wanted to express my thoughts. Thank you for clearing this up for me -- I should have been more thorough in reading all the post.

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Mklow1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            ; ) No worries. There are over 1000 comments here, so nobody can read them all.

            replyreport
         2. 0

            Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            And that would have been a complete waste of time.

            replyreport
7. 86

   Phyllis Doyleposted 11 years ago

   My apologies: I meant "believe" in "respectfully accepting of everyone's right to belief as they choose." Sorry for the typo.

   replyreport
8. 59

   A Troubled Manposted 11 years ago

   You ask atheists what their problem is? This video explains it succinctly and perfectly...
   
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uTypnaP5X4
   
   

   replyreport
   1. 0

      jonnycomelatelyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for that, ATM, most interesting videos I had not seen before.  I also looked at other videos which were listed alongside that one.  I agree that political correctness has go so far as to allow ANY rubbish to be pushed upon our minds and that we can have no redress.  So much from "freedom."

      replyreport
   2. 0

      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It sure does.

      replyreport