Change - mutations, adaption, survival of the fittest, variations based on the environment, and perhaps even some speciation, as in a new "species" of flies - are undisputed facts that do NOT contradict the Word of God and do NOT reveal evolution theory's premise, but rather reveal an awesome Creator who designed creation to change and adapt! The evolution-pusher deceives when stating "evolution is a fact" since it is merely the truths related to change within evolution theory that are facts, and these facts prove nothing beyond themselves. It is true that evolution theory requires mutation, adaptation and change, and it is also true that things mutate, adapt and change; however, to conclude that it is therefore true that we MUST have evolved from the least to the greatest by chance without our Creator is neither good logic nor good science. It is as illogical as stating that since we know it is necessary to live in America in order to live in Rhode Island, and since we have discovered that it is in fact true that we live in America, we therefore MUST live in Rhode Island! WE ESTABLISH NOTHING FROM THE FACTS OF CHANGE EXCEPT THE FACTS OF CHANGE. Anything beyond this is speculation. Evolution theory makes claims about the origins of life "billions" of years ago, and therefore can NEVER be observed without time travel, and thus can NEVER legitimately be claimed as fact, regardless of what is found or what is happening today! Led by the deceiver, evolutionists deceptively mix the facts of change with fantasies about the origins of life in order to confuse and lead many astray.
And that single-handedly proves that you don't know what evolution is all about. Natural Selection is the exact opposite of random, as the traits that get passed on and are deemed genetically beneficial are explicitly chosen by the mating pairs themselves.
It's like saying that the winner of a soccer tournament was just chosen at random, when the reality is that the teams had selected tactics (a "trait" in the sports world, if you will) that eventually led them to success.
(In before some jackass comes along and says soccer has no tactics.)
Evolution theories incorporate randomness, natural selection, survival of the fittest, etc.
Yes, but evolution is not chance any more than a cake is flour.
Yes, it includes natural selection which is NOT based on chance.
With all the scientific discoveries like the Higgs Boson plus more discoveries to support evolution, creationists come out of the woodwork with their desperate attempts to disprove these. They have no evidence or solid proof of any sort, just biblical BS. If the bible is to be taken literally, then these bible thumpers firmly believe that the earth if flat and the sky is a huge canopy supported by the ends of the earth (ancient Egyptian and Greek belief). Pretty pathetic to believe in a religious comic book where no one knows who the authors were and what they actually meant. At least mainstream Jews stop taking that crap literally 600 years ago.
What are you trying to say here? That evolution says species change? We all know that.
That evolution describes the formation of life on earth? That would be a falsehood, though often promoted in a misguided effort to disavow an accepted biological fact.
I am saying that the truth of change does NOT lead to the evolutionist's additional false assertions. The only "biological fact" is that species change.
What additional false assertions? That man has changed from what it was?
Because all you have to do to see that with your own eyes is look at a set of medieval armor. It's too small for any but the smallest men any more. We are losing our toes, too, along with our wisdom teeth and hymen All examples of evolution in action, changing homo sapiens from what it was.
Or are you still pounding on the false claim that evolution has something to do with abiogenesis?
None of the changes are disputed. Change is a fact. Some label this "micro-evolution". I take issue only with that part of the theory that contradicts the eternal truths revealed by the Spirit and the living Word - the truths that we were created by the Creator of the universe and that we were created in his very image! Anything that denies these eternal truths is not from God.
Evidence of hominid evolution may be confounding to you, but other people are not going to act like it doesn't exist just to cater to your whims.
For the third time, what is it that you dispute? Exactly, not some vague reference to "truths" from a book written by barbarians 2,000 years ago. What facts of evolution contradict your belief system?
Good for you, and when you do actually learn something about evolution, you'll know why your statements mean nothing.
It's quite alright, we can see that you don't understand evolution and know that it must be frustrating to be part of the small minority of people who still don't accept it as fact. Once you do take the time to learn about evolution, you'll see why your post is false.
Zelkiiro, EncephaloiDead and Psycheskinner: We can revise the statement to this, and the point is maintained: "It is true that evolution theory requires mutation, adaptation and change, and it is also true that things mutate, adapt and change; however, to conclude that it is therefore true that we MUST have evolved from the least to the greatest by natural selection without our Creator is neither good logic nor good science." You can revise it to "by chance and/or natural selection", and the point is the same. In fact, we can simply say: "It is true that evolution theory requires mutation, adaptation and change, and it is also true that things mutate, adapt and change; however, to conclude that it is therefore true that we MUST have evolved from the least to the greatest without our Creator is neither good logic nor good science." Point made!
Where do you get this least to the greatest thing? We are unique, but no more so than any other creature. Our success can be attributed to our ability to communicate ideas. But we are far from the most adaptive or the most populous creature.
If left alone all creatures would not evolve into us.
Sorry, but that IS what science says about evolution, no creators have ever been shown to be part of that equation.
No, it isn't the same. Chance has nothing to do with it. Perhaps, you should try to learn something about evolution before making hasty remarks.
That statement has never been shown to be valid because no creators have ever been shown to exist.
Again, try learning something about evolution.
The essential meaning of the statement remains intact whether you say by chance, by natural selection, by some combination thereof, or even if you leave it unspecified.
Science must demonstrate observable facts. Not so with religion. Things that are spiritually discerned cannot be "proven" to you by a person, but only by the Holy Spirit. No one, believer or nonbeliever, needs to show whether or not God exists. That is the work of the Spirit, and he'll show it to whomever he pleases and whenever he pleases. He has given us some insight into who he chooses to reveal himself to - the humble, the weak, the desperate, the seeking, the ones who recognize their faults and weaknesses, those considered "lowly" by others, those with simple trust and faith who will receive it...
Then why do you insist on inserting spirituality into science?
Science has its limits; God and spirituality do not!
One limit seems to be : thou shall not steal [stock photography].
Just like fairy tales can usurp the laws of nature, so can any imaginary character. You know, like....not only did Peter Pan never age, he could also fly. Rumpelstiltskin could spin straw into gold. Jack grew a giant beanstalk, Midas could turn anything he touched to gold. But, alas, that's not reality.
God created us in his image, which means we too can create - so people have created many story characters like the ones you mention, as well as many theories, like evolution theory, in which fact and fantasy are deceptively combined. If you go back far enough, the "laws of nature" are already defied by the existence of anything because the laws of nature dictate that something cannot come from nothing, but in the beginning...
You could remove the starting assumption and equally claim God is just something we created.
But really all you are doing is reinforcing the fallacy that Christians cannot believe in evolution--because they insist God made us literally in the way described in parable written (inspired by God or not) to explain the event to people in a primitive and postindustrial society.
YOU can remove the starting assumption, but I CANNOT, having already been sealed by the Holy Spirit. How literal or symbolic, how limited by the use of men carried along by the Spirit, exactly how the processes came to be, etc. can be set aside; the truth still remains, as revealed by the Spirit and the living Word, that God is the Creator of the universe and that we are created in his image!
"Revealed by the spirit" By spirit do you mean imagination?
Have you ever heard the phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid?"
Then God must be a Great Ape, because that is what we are, whether you like it or not.
"Something can't come from nothing."
The big bang doesn't say the universe came from nothing. But the bible does.
If you consider God a something how do you explain him?
You may want to study virtual particles.
I was referring to that which is beyond the universe. For believer or nonbeliever, the laws of nature are defied. I'm not so foolish or so arrogant as to explain God; the eternal God is beyond full human explanation or comprehension.
See how that works? You maintain that something can't come from nothing, but God is beyond your comprehension, you can't explain how something can come from nothing and yet you pretend to on everything else but your God. I suspect the big bang and evolution is beyond your comprehension as well, but that doesn't stop you.
It is the "laws of nature" that maintain that something can't come from nothing, which is why the laws of nature are defied already!
Yes, but the only imaginations, of ours, that can be realized(materialized) are the ones that don't defy the laws of nature.
Evolution is a "working" scientific theory. The Bible is the one where fact and fantasy are DECEPTIVELY combined.
So tell me about the times you have, personally, seen the laws of nature usurped. Infinity implies no beginning.
"Infinity implies no beginning"... And that is why the eternal, infinite God has no beginning or end, and is not subject to the laws of nature.
I have seen the laws of nature usurped through the supernatural, but whether I had or not, would not change the existence of that which is outside our laws of nature.
If such things exist, evidence of evolution is not one of them.
If eternity exists, then why do we need a God. Instead of His being eternal....JUST to create us, why couldn't we be part of the eternal reality, and forgo a god?-----stardust!
The mind can be easily deceived. You witnessed an illusion. I have seen several apparitions in my lifetime. I have survived a couple of deadly accidents, yet I still understand that there are Odds and Probabilities that account for that, and that there are more rational explanations for what happened....hence, there is no desire to invoke superstitious nonsense.
You don't know of anything, if any, that exists outside of the laws of nature. You are speaking purely from pre-supposition....planted by indoctrination.
"God done it" is directly damaging to science. It created the middle ages as well as preventing countless people from thinking. If we continued along with your line of thinking we'd still think the earth was flat and the centre of everything in the universe. If you are sure that your God is there you should have no fear of science.
As for the limits of spirituality, where do we start. Can your spirits give you personal information about me? Can they give you any information you don't currently have? Can they predict the future? Can they make you live on earth for 200 years? Would you like me to go on?
So you are a "protector" of science, Rad Man? Human "religion" may have caused difficulties in the middle ages, and may even have caused many people to fail to think, but "religion" is about the traditions of humans, not about the true God, the Spirit and the living Word. Religions, claiming to be guardians of truth and the Word, defy that very Word and truth, and incorporate their own agendas. You are witnessing the evils of men and of demonic spirits, pretending to be from God. Why let them turn you away from the true God?
It is love, not fear, that compels me. I could die today and I will be fine. But let's say for illustrative purposes that there is a "truck" that you do not yet see heading toward you at a great speed, and while you resent my shove at you, I will not apologize for pushing you because I am attempting to push you out of the path of the truck that is about to destroy you!
If I had "spirits" I would be following the devil, not the true God. Some demonic spirits have even given limited supernatural powers. The Spirit can and has predicted the future - check it out for yourself, the prophecies have and will continue to be fulfilled; it's all recorded in the living Word!
I'll give you a fair chance. I currently don't think any spiritual world exists aa none has been proven to be. But I'm open to the idea if some good evidence can be given. I'll ask you what I've asked others in the past. As you God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit a question about me that only he can reveal. What was the name of the street I lived on in 1980. Give me at push. Why would God not give you the answer?
Rad Man, you already know that is not the working of the Spirit, or he would routinely "prove" his existence in such ways. It is not me you are testing, but God, and if you want to hear from God, you cannot do it with a test.
What a cop out. Happens every time. You've got nothing.
If this continues to be your approach in "seeking" God, then yes, it will continue to happen this way. But if you seek and worship him "in Spirit and in truth", then he will be found by you because these are the worshipers he is seeking (John 4:23-24; Jeremiah 29:13).
He can't/won't give you the name of one street to help convince a skeptic (since he wants all to know him and all) but he keeps you thin and youthful all the time, despite the fact that you're unwilling to put in the hard work yourself? How backwardsly selfish is that?
I'm sorry, but I can't take someone seriously who prays to their god to remain skinny despite poor eating habits and youthful looking - and then takes pride in the fact that those prayers are answered while hundreds of thousands of children are dying without food and drinkable water. It's incredibly selfish and vain - and vanity is an abomination to your god.
I've committed far worse sins and abominations than this, JMcFarland, so judge away... I wasn't taking pride in any of the numerous answered prayers and other signs from God, I was giving testimony from my experiences. Here's a "humbling" example that may please you more: For the first time in my life (he let this one go without being addressed for a LONG time) God through the Spirit instructed me not to be late to church or any other meetings anymore, and I shrugged him off. So the VERY next time after I was so instructed, I was going to church late, as usual, with my two small children, on a beautiful day with sunshine and warm weather, when suddenly a tremendous rain and wind storm hit just strong enough and just long enough to completely soak us (I couldn't even push the stroller against it, couldn't put up umbrellas, etc.). Now if I had been on time, as he already very strongly spiritually nudged me to be, I would have completely avoided the storm both coming and going to church. As it was, we were so soaked, we couldn't even stay. My list of answered prayers, disciplines, supernatural experiences, etc. goes on and on and are too numerous to count. It is true that God is not concerned with outer appearances, as we are, but nonetheless he did even honor my silly prayer to cover over my poor eating habits and keep me thin and youthful despite them. Now the INFP (my) personality, like all personalities, has both strengths and weaknesses. Strengths - they are truth seekers, capable of greater love than most others, fight for the good, etc., but admiring what is beautiful both inside and out means they may be unnecessarily concerned with beauty to the point of vanity, being deceived by a beautiful man, etc. So judge away, I'll agree with you. I have many other weaknesses and I will not defend myself against them. Concerning starving children... I have considered that when I every other week or so go out to eat and pay say $30 for my family's meal, I should perhaps instead choose to send that $30 to a charity that will feed starving children. I'm sure I have a lot to work on here, as in every area. My heart grieves greatly for starving and hurting children, and I pray regularly for their comfort and for Jesus' speedy return to put an end to all such suffering.
when god "speaks" to you, do you hear a voice? Do your hear your conscience? What is it? If you talk to him all the time, surely you're able to ask him for simple information that would help a non-believer learn to recognize him?
Here is simple information (written long before its fulfillment through Jesus Christ, and evidenced by the fact that it is still in the hands of the Jewish nation that has not yet recognized its fulfillment in Jesus) that can help a non-believer recognize him: "Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53)
Yeah, I've read the bible multiple times, and I don't need you to regurgitate it for me. I'm asking YOU, and unless you lived about 4,000 years ago, that answer doesn't apply.
He speaks through his Word, he speaks through people, he speaks from within a believer, he speaks through circumstances, he speaks through creation, he speaks through the supernatural, and so on. An unbeliever refuses to listen, despite many signs. My own personal interactions won't apply to everyone. For example, long ago I decided that every time I saw three numbers in a row, I would say a little prayer or a "hello" to God, simply because three represents the Trinity. It came to be that I would see three numbers in a row so often that if someone asked me the time, for example, it would always happen to be 1:11 or 2:22, and they would laugh and say "Of course it is." So now for years and years I'm "given" three numbers in a row when I need confirmation. For example, when I was given a promise of victory that required I beat harsh odds, my case number was 111, which reaffirmed God's promise for me; in the end, despite the odds against me in the natural realm, God followed through with the promise of victory he'd given me.
How can you make a blanket statement like unbelievers refuse to listen? Firstly, you're assuming that we were always unbelievers. Secondly, you're assuming that we hear something that we've adamantly refused to acknowledge repeatedly. Neither could be further from the truth.
So is Jesus dead or alive? If he is dead, then there is no way to recognize a long dead person. If he is alive, then, EVERYONE should be able to see....and even touch him. So....if he is alive, could you direct us to where we can see and touch this Jesus? Thanks
He is alive and seated at the right hand of the Father in the heavenly realms, where those of us who are in him are also with him and hidden in him. See him you will, touch him I pray you will, upon his second coming (which has been prophesied in the Word, and which will be fulfilled just as the first coming was prophesied in Isaiah 53 and was fulfilled when Jesus walked on earth). For now we have the Spirit, who reveals the Father and Jesus to us, who guides us into all truth, who teaches us, comforts us, and so on. What a glorious day it will be when we see and touch Jesus!
It never fails. I ask someone to introduce me to Jesus...and they start making up excuses. And after they have sold me this wonderful story, of someone I thought was REAL....it turns out to be shady. They start to back pedal and stall and create confusing, misleading information. Why can't you just introduce me to Jesus? At this point it seems clear that there is no JESUS, and you are doing everything that you can to TRICK me. That's terrible!
"Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God'." (John 8:42-47) Consider yourself introduced, getitrite.
This is just worthless psychotic regurgitation, from someone claiming to be the son of an imaginary mythical creature. I could claim that Rumpelstiltskin sent me here, and that he is my father....but that would be psychotic.
Oh...It's clear! And, being a writer and author, I certainly understand plain English.
This is why your religious beliefs are so vile and cause so much conflict. You think that it is your right to insult people on such an egregious level, and that, somehow you are not being a bully. You don't know ANYTHING about my father. And he is certainly not a murderer.
You project this trait unto an imaginary character, while there is no truth to be found in your OWN assertions. Are you even aware of that? That's actually very comical.
A person's words mean NOTHING! It's the person's actions that tell the true story. And judging from your actions, your are not telling the truth. .
Dishonesty is immoral, so it would fit under the definition of sin.
You haven't shown me a smidgen of evidence of a God, so it would be foolish for me to pretend to belong to something before it is proven to exist. That's like buying a time machine from you before you prove to me that there is even such a thing. Please understand that the onus is upon you to be honest when selling someone a PRODUCT. The first, and most basic responsibility, is to actually have a PRODUCT! Hence the phrase: caveat emptor.
Getitrite, you have been mocking and speaking evil against God and Jesus, but you are so offended by a reprimanding verse? The verse makes reference to your spiritual father, the devil, not your earthly father. God speaks, those who are his and know his voice follow. From the point of hatred toward God where you stand, you have two choices: continue in that hatred and remain separated from everlasting life, or humble yourself, seek and find life! You resent me because I know and speak the truth. Why? I am nothing, I have nothing apart from God. And everything I have you too may have, but you refuse it. I don't need to "sell" you anything. God's Word will accomplish all that it is intended to accomplish. Listen or don't listen, that is your choice. Jesus has said: "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me - just as the Father knows me and I know the Father - and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life - only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again." (John 10:14-18)
The truth, getitrite, is that the devil is the spiritual father of everyone who refuses Jesus, but because of God's love for you, even still he calls you, and you have a choice to make as long as you have breath, however long that may be. Despite your mocking and hatred, God yet lovingly longs to be good to you, yet longs to be your Father for all of eternity.
Still trying to sell me a PRODUCT that doesn't exist. Wow! I've proven that this what you are doing, yet you still, mindlessly, continue on with some delusional irrelevant rant. This is pure MADNESS!!!!
Are you experiencing some kind of disconnect from REALITY? Is everything OK? This is disturbing!
Getitrite: "I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." (Luke 18:17)
An interesting quote. Discussion with someone else recently came to the conclusion that the trait of children referenced is their natural acceptance of authority; anything we say is take as "gospel" by young children (no pun intended).
That would indeed be appropriate and likely correct here; only a childs automatic acceptance can result in belief of the outrageous claims of the bible or Christian authorities. Responsible adults, questioning what they are told, would never believe such fantastic tales. It does indeed require the mind of a child.
Just to be clear, it is supposed to be submitting to the authority of Jesus. As Jesus never said bugger-all about evolution, Ms. Simonelli is obviously submitting to somebody else's authority. As such, her opinions can be safely ignored.
To be honest, other than a curious need to argue, I don't see why anyone is taking her opinions seriously. She is obviously fulfilling her Religious leaders directive to browbeat and harass people hoping that they join her faith, for no other reason, then to stop the constant barrage.
As I have had my child woken up twice in as many weeks as a result of that directive, I have fulfilled my quota of harassment. I just wish there was a no-knock listing as well as a no-call directory.
Melissa, as much as I respect you and your opinions, any adult who does not question both the teachings of Jesus and the bible as a whole badly needs to grow up.
Our recent past included the "snake oil" salesmen of the old west and prior to that there have been an interminable line of such people, selling crap as truth. We have learned to question most advertising; Jesus' words and the words of the bible require the same questioning attitude.
Personally, I find little to disagree with in the words of Jesus. There are a few times when following his guidelines will result in death or worse, but in the whole he has laid out a reasonable guide for good living.
The bible, on the other hand, is full of falsehoods and outright lies. It cannot even be trusted to give a reasonable accurate historical account, let alone describe the world around us. The morals of the old testament are completely unacceptable to modern civilized society and the idea espoused there are not followed by anybody today. Instead they pick and choose what they like to follow (hate of gays being a prime example) and disregard the rest of god's orders. They question, all right, but the answers come straight from their own perversions and desires.
My view on this are a bit off from mainstream Christianity and are mine alone... however there is-for me- a difference between submitting to Christ's will and blind acceptance.
It's a straw man, but bear with me. I expect my kids to listen to me and submit to my authority, ultimately. Yet I don't expect them to never ask why or try to figure out why I am asking them/telling them to do things. Yes, ultimately, if the answer is BECAUSE I TOLD YOU TO. I expect them to accept that and comply. Those times are very rare though, and usually involve dangerous circumstances that I can't make them understand.
I've never "gotten" a BECAUSE I TOLD YOU TO in my faith. I have always understood why Jesus said to do the things he said to do. Yet, I PROMISE you, if he ever shows up and says jump, I'm going to be asking how high. I'm fairly certain, however, that that is very unlikely.
So that's my take on it, which comes from my own understanding and reading. It is not an official church opinion and may or may not represent the views of any other Christian anywhere.
Well said, and makes perfect sense to me. The only problem I can see with that concept is when God asks for something you would not normally attribute to him. Think Abraham here - would you burn you child to death if God said to? Or would you ultimately decide that it was Satan requesting the sacrifice, that you had been badly fooled for a time?
And when you finally decide it is actually God requiring that, would you do it? I know I wouldn't - regardless of any belief as to God's power and abilities, anything requiring such an action is not something to be worshipped, IMHO.
If God ever starts telling me, in a literal recognizable voice, to kill anybody I'm checking into a mental hospital as fast as I can drive there. I'm not even stopping to put my shoes on. As a matter of fact, if God ever starts saying anything to me in a literal recognizable voice, same deal. This is assuming, of course, that I am not given the ability to walk on water, turn it into wine, or separate large bodies of it at the same time I hear the voice.
Every single time the actual voice of God has been heard, it has been accompanied by a physical manifestation that was undeniable. Burning bushes, instant carved tablets, parting oceans... that such. My point is that if one ever hears the actual voice of God without a manifestation of some sort... that is observable to other people, it's likely a psychotic break.
Now, that little voice that is in our head is called, for lack of a better word, a conscious. It is developed from a whole bunch of things. For the faithful, the Bible is often part of that. In that way, it kinda is the voice of God... FIGURATIVELY. But that's because it's coming from choosing to be led by your faith.
If your conscious is telling you something that is out of character with what you believe in, it is either a mental condition or some other influence that is being exerted on you. Sudden shifts in beliefs don't happen normally without conscious effort. If you know you didn't make that effort, then you really need to examine the reasons... because none of them are likely to be good.
(And I can hear the screams of "It's the devil" right now. I don't think so, but I don't believe in the devil as an actual entity, but I digress. Regardless, seeing somebody about that little voice changing should probably the first course of action.)
Now the killing of a child is kind of a sensitive topic to me, because I actually did make the decision to allow one of my children to die. So, obviously, I can see a time when a loving parent would make that call. My conscious really did tell me to do it.
Now, that being said, if it came completely out of the blue with no other reason than just because Jesus said to do it, would I follow any voice that told me to kill my children? No. Never. Not even if I believed with all my heart that it was Jesus saying it. Not even if he were standing in front of me. I chose to follow Christ because he was a model of goodness. At that point, my reasons for following him would be invalidated.
Presumably you reference, not your consciousness, but your conscience. Spell checker is Sooo worthless!
We will obviously disagree on what that conscience does and where it comes from, but the end result is the same regardless of source. Whether it evolved that way as a method to promote life/reproduction or is in effect the voice of God is immaterial when it comes to listening to it. And listen we all do, or should. No arguments outside of the source of that attribute of humanity.
I understand your comment about allowing a child to die and sympathize with you. I've never had the misfortune to be in that situation, but I have not only allowed by father to die but aided him in hastening the date of that death. But that kind of thing is not what I meant, and I'm sure you know that - your following paragraph says it pretty clearly. As clearly as it says that MelissaBarrett thinks about her god before giving her worship and love to it. Good for you - not everyone does and the results can be disastrous. 911, witch burning, child sacrifice, the KoolAid of Jonestown - the list is nearly endless of atrocities committed in God's name that no sane person should have ever allowed to happen.
Yeah, I actually recognized that I had misspelled conscience consistently through that post and was coming back to edit. Sorry about that.
I'm not sure you should always listen to your conscience, again if it is suddenly telling you something completely out of character, chances are you have some sort of mental issue happening. But yeah, when your conscience speaks, it should at the very least cause you to give pause and examine the situation.
Unfortunately, there is religion as a guiding positive force and there is religion as a symptom of a mental issue. The latter is a manifestation, a symptom, of a mental illness. Not the cause. The insanity is there regardless, the religion is just the clothing it's wearing.
That being said, any extreme religion bears some investigation. I say that grudgingly but I've got to be honest. I'm just not sure where the line is. For me it's been a very positive thing and it has actually helped keep me stable and less likely to climb a clock tower. I'm sure it's been positive for others as well.
I'm sorry for bringing up memories of your father. You have my deepest sympathy. I'm sorry if I upset you.
First, you did not upset me; memories of my father never do. Yes, the incident itself was heart-wrenching, just as I'm sure yours was, but there were positives there, too.
I'm not sure that insanity is a reasonable plea, not with the numbers of people being so hateful in the name of their god. When it's that common, well, we can't have 70% of the population being insane, by definition.
Nor is there even a small doubt in my mind that religion helps many people. It makes them happy, it does no real damage, it even keeps them stable just as you say. As long as it is kept behind locked doors there is seldom a problem from religion (treatment of children is another story, though) and I, in general, support people in their beliefs. It is only when those beliefs are forced onto others that I bristle a bit.
The line on investigating a religion is: every religion needs questioning and close examination before following it. Every Christian sect, every Muslim sect, every pagan belief, every religion in the world; all of them need to be questioned. If they are above board and reasonable, helping people without harming anyone, fine and good. If not you can turn around and walk away before the KoolAid comes out or your neighbor is burned at the stake. And it isn't enough to question before "joining"; the questions should never end. No religion is static, all change through time, and the change is not always in your best interests.
*edit* Yes, always listen to your conscience. Whether you follow it or not depends on reasoning and thought, but it is your best defense against being convinced to do wrong. Listen, and then decide on a course of action.
You, and other believers, can choose to be as gullible and foolish as little children if you desire, but some of us know that this is no way to negotiate life....and survive! In essence, you automatically become the victim of every con, and can even be, easily, convinced to injure yourself or take your own life.
Pretoria Pastor Convinces Congregation To Eat Grass
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2014/ … -eat-grass
no, they're supposed to be good little sheep, so It's baaaaaaaaaahaaaaaa
I can imagine what's going through the petty mind of that pastor as he watches his flock eat grass.
This is almost as absurd and ridiculous as pole dancing for Jesus. Sometimes, it amazes me to see what human beings are capable of.
Once again, it does not remain intact. Chance has nothing to do with evolution.
That is why religion is useless.
That is a meaningless statement.
That is why nonbelievers ignore gods, because they can't be shown to exist.
Another meaningless statement. You really should try to learn about evolution.
Without what Creator? Do you have evidence of any kind of Creator? Were they aliens? Did they use magic?
Evolution is a Scientific Theory. Creators are not founded on any evidence, and only exist as characters in ancient books.
Chimps and Bonobos share 98-99% of our DNA. Do you have evidence that a Creator did that?
Alright, based on the information you all have provided me and the distinctions within science and much (though not all) of the literature, here is the revised version that still presents the God-given truths that hopefully now will not get lost in some of the misinformation I received and presented:
Change - mutations, adaption, survival of the fittest, variations based on the environment, and perhaps even some speciation, as in a new “species” of flies - are undisputed facts that do NOT contradict the Word of God and do NOT reveal evolution theory’s speculative conclusions, but rather reveal an awesome Creator who designed creation to change and adapt! The evolution-pusher deceives when stating “evolution is a fact” since the theory in entirety is not a fact, but it is merely the truths related to change within the theory that are facts. These facts prove nothing beyond themselves – WE ESTABLISH NOTHING FROM THE FACTS OF CHANGE EXCEPT THE FACTS OF CHANGE! We can agree with the truth within evolution theory that there is a “change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations” (Evolution. WIKEPEDIA – The Free Encyclopedia. (2014). Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution). However, it is neither good logic nor good science to conclude that it is therefore true that we MUST have “descended from a last universal ancestor”, theorizing that the “repeated speciation and the divergence of life can be inferred from shared sets of… traits, or by shared DNA sequences” (WIKEPEDIA, 2014). We would expect the same shared traits and DNA sequences given the truth that we share a COMMON CREATOR and since such similarities are to our benefit whether for medical purposes or simply the companionship of a beloved pet. INFERENCES are not the substance of good science; they are mere speculation. Evolution theory makes claims about life “billions” of years ago, and therefore can NEVER be observed without time travel, and thus can NEVER legitimately be claimed as fact, regardless of what is found or what is happening today! Led by the deceiver, evolutionists deceptively mix the facts of change with fantasies about the evolution of life in order to confuse and lead many astray.
That's like saying we go back a hundred million years ago in a time machine to see if the dinosaurs whose fossilized remains we have today existed then. If we can't go back to the past and see it for ourselves, then we can NEVER legitimately say they actually existed.
Led by the "deceiver"? That would be the brain, working and functioning correctly.
We can truthfully say large creatures we call dinosaurs were once present on earth, just as the evolutionist can honestly say things do change. If from those fossilized remains of the dinosaurs, we begin making faulty inferences, then we can never prove our INFERENCES are true without time travel.
It looks like we agree on something. Wonderful!
Evolution is more than just change, it is natures way of 'culling the herd', traits that help a species survive in their environment will be passed on to their young. And, often in nature, not all young survive due to various causes, many having to do with avoiding attacks from predators that would like to eat them. Notice that those attacks are not random events, but are instead a way of life for those species, a constant vigil.
Then, there is diversity of species, the other important postulation of evolution. We can observe from any given species, the diversity from the result of mixing those survival traits, which are carried by their genetics. You yourself are the product of the mixing of your mothers and fathers genetics, just like every other life form. And, every generation mixes again, and again and again, over and over through tens of thousands, millions of generations... slow, tiny, changes over vast periods of time. That's how evolution works in a nutshell.
Science provides the simplest explanation for the evidence, that the current species were developed by evolution-- with a myriad of hominids leading to us.
If you wish to say God arranged it that way, there is nothing to prevent that. It is a matter of one's religion.
If you wish to say God planted all the fossils and there is no line of hominid descent, or that line of descent getting more and more like use is nothing to do with us....I would say that is stretching matters somewhat.
I would note that evolution has nothing to do with making us 'greater' or 'better' in any objective sense. That is not part of the theory. It just keeps us adapted to our environment.
If you believe in an omniscient / omnipotent God, naturally He could have set the world up any way He wanted. Like starting the system to evolve knowing full well how it was end up.
I am not religious but I don't see any problem with reconciling evolution and God unless one is a Biblical literalist.
Maybe if we all try some of these Holy Spirits....things well be revealed to us.......>>>>
"But the time is coming--indeed it’s here now--when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. 24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."
13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
We can do this, as soon as God stops hiding. If He were to perform the simple tests that he KNOWS we require for belief, then He can be taken seriously. Until then, this appears nothing but a silly con game.
Perhaps her writing will evolve over time to include them.
Perhaps she simply needs to pray to learn how to use paragraphs. When I was younger I prayed constantly to be able to spell and read at grade level. I also prayed to be six feet tall, wealthy and intelligent. But the simple truth is, spellchecker helped me with three words in the terribly executed paragraph and I'm left with my devastating good looks and modesty.
I adore the: "This must not be accurate because one or two pieces of scientific evidence might possibly be questioned by the fringe. So I believe THIS thing that has no scientific evidence whatsoever."
Yep, got it. I see the logic completely.
This is along the lines I was thinking when I first read this.
I see people who deny evolution like people who denied the sun-centric solar system for 400 years, until they had to just accept facts and re-fit it into their belief system. Evolution is still young. It needs more time for people to let go of denial.
Wilderness, MelissaBarrett, getitrite:
"I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." (Luke 18:17) - It refers to the simple faith of children; the humility rather than arrogance of children; and yes, submission to Jesus and the Father (not to any person). If any person directs people to eat grass, they are not following the Spirit of God.
MelissaBarrett: It is written: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them" (Genesis 1:27). Evolutionists propose instead that we "evolved" from ape-like creatures and so on. "Microevolution" is fine, but when things contradict the Holy Spirit inspired Word, something is amiss. Either you believe the Word (Jesus is the Word in the flesh) or you don't. Consider your company here on these HUB forums - atheists and those who hate God and Christians. Are you trying to please God or man?
So, this is about pleasing God? It's not about thinking or understanding or accepting facts?
Hate God and Christians? Atheists here don't believe in any gods, so there's nothing for them to hate. And, they certainly don't hate Christians. No one here hates you. Why would say these things when they clearly are not true.
When things contradict your religious beliefs, there certainly is something amiss, but it is more along the lines of something being amiss about the beliefs themselves.
Beliefs vs. facts. You can be on the side of beliefs, but that would mean rejecting or denying facts. No problem, it is your prerogative to do so, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world is also going to reject or deny facts in favor of beliefs.
Evolution is comprised of many facts. If you would take the time to understand them, you too would see that your beliefs are amiss.
Yes, it is about pleasing God, as you say.
There is certainly hatred directed against me. I have directed my insults at the "god of evolution" and the demonic forces of evil, not individuals; my responders have often looked for various ways to insult me personally. If I were to stereotype unbelievers in the way people stereotype believers... perhaps I should stop before my Italian temper, that is my flesh gets in the way. But I understand the hatred - Jesus forewarned that the world hated him and would hate us also. And after all, I dare to speak against the beloved "god" of evolution...
Yes, there are facts within evolution theory to lend credibility to it. But there are also falsehoods in evolution and related theories.
Many of us have much more purpose and meaning in life that we have no time to please God. Perhaps, you have all the time in the world and nothing better to do with your life, but that isn't the case with everyone. Family and friends are what is far more important than God, and since they take up much of time, along with a host of other things, pleasing God just doesn't get a second look. Besides, we know God isn't vain and petty, He can look after Himself.
What is it you believers keep telling us over and over? Ah yes, you love the sinner, but hate the sin. That goes the same for all of us, we love you, we just don't love Christianity.
That isn't true at all and you know it. Everything is being directed at your beliefs. The only issue anyone here has is your honesty, which is in question because as you say, you're directing your comments at evolution, yet you have no understanding of it. That is quite dishonest and you're simply being called out on it.
Why not instead be honest and admit you know very little about evolution and would like to learn more about it before making those "insults".
No one hates you. Trust me on that one.
Did you? Or, did you just make up stuff that has nothing to do with evolution?
If there were, you haven't shown those falsehoods in any way. That is because you have no understanding of the theory, which is why others are making those comments.
Again, why not just be honest and admit you don't know anything about evolution? Do you actually think God doesn't know you're being dishonest about this? He most certainly does.
Yet Jesus and the Father never represents themselves, and are always represented by PERSONS. So do we really have a choice?
That is your own understanding. God works in mysterious ways.....Remember:
[Proverbs 3:5-7] Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil.
You know what I mean? See below \/
"If any person directs people to eat grass, they are not following the Spirit of God. "
Guess you don't have the mind of a child after all: that directive was given by a man of God, whom God had spoken to and told what to direct his congregation to do. Now, you may question that, imposing your own thoughts on what you think of that pastors conversation with your god, but that is not done with the mind of a child. Either get in line with the program, becoming childlike and accepting what God (and God's prophet) has to say, or give it up and behave like an adult shoud, questioning everything.
Was he a "man of God" or a follower of a demon god? My inclination is to doubt the Spirit instructed him to have his congregation eat grass, but you know what, you are right to correct me because I am not the judge of it. Maybe God through the Spirit was making a point. I strive to submit to God, but men must be tested to see if they are following God or a "god" who is a demon. If a person is not sure, then we should leave it at that.
You believe yourself liberated because you question God and his Word, and yet you have become a slave to the devil and the world. Yes, question - question your professors, question the media, even question "religious" people. Get your answers straight from the Spirit and the Word or you are not free at all, but a blind follower of the demonic forces in this world.
This is the worst FLIP-FLOPPING I have ever seen. All credibility is GONE!
I personally believe the Spirit did not lead him to having his congregation eat grass, but it is not for me to judge. Now if someone directed their congregation to do something that contradicted God and his ways (say molest children) I would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this man was following Satan and not God.
What is the basis for your belief that it was not the Spirit?
Would you accept it was from God if it was to keep slaves instead?
And as far as contradicting God's ways, a great many things we do today contradict God's ways. Refusal to own slaves, for instance, or allowing anyone else to do so. Refusal to stone a disobedient child or a non-virgin woman. Eating pork and wearing different cloth clothes. Lots of ways we disobey God's rules every day, and accept it as normal, right and proper.
Wilderness: We are not directed to own slaves. Slaves and all people are exhorted to act in humility; the least is the greatest, so slaves will be greater in the coming kingdom, not their earthly masters. Jesus sides with the least, the mistreated, and so on. The punishments were very harsh in the Old testament, as demanded by holiness. But an unholy people (all of us) couldn't keep the requirements of the law. God, loving us as he does, spared us from the punishment of death by sending Jesus (himself in the flesh) in our place. How heartbreaking for God - permitting both himself and his son (the latter even more heartbreaking than the first) to be put to death so that the requirements of the law would be fulfilled for us, so that we could be declared righteous and sinless, and so that we could be in God's presence for all of eternity. (Btw, you may know, but Abraham and Isaac, which you mentioned in another comment, were foreshadowing God and Jesus.)
Since Jesus has already fulfilled the righteous requirements of the law, we no longer are to be given our "deserved" punishments, but we are living in the day of favor and grace. No one should be casting stones, including at gay people, as you've mentioned some Christians do. But humans will have their human nature and do wrong until the day they are given their new spiritual bodies. No, I'm not saying God says the behavior is ok, but he says much of all our behavior is not ok, and since we all miss the mark of righteousness apart from Christ, we're all sinners in the same boat until Jesus places us into the other boat that is for the "declared" righteous and forgiven (not in their own right, but through acceptance of his sacrifice and payment of their sins). Are there gay Christians in the "declared" righteous boat? Absolutely, there are declared righteous people of any misbehavior imaginable. Are we called to supernaturally overcome even behaviors we are born with a tendency toward? Yes. I'm called to supernaturally overcome my inherited Italian temper, but I haven't been terribly successful. So I'm certainly not going to judge anyone else who is equally unsuccessful in overcoming their "vice" according to the law. To me we are all the same, gay or straight brothers and sisters; we all knowingly or unknowingly commit many sins and need Jesus' grace and forgiveness. People do us no favors by telling us our behaviors are okay (as the world now wants to declare everything is ok, and thinks it's to our benefit), nor are we done any favors by being told we're worse than anyone else, as some Christians try to do to people of various vices. We are all covered in the blood, given grace, and awaiting the perfection that God will bring about when we at last have our new spiritual bodies and are with him for eternity, delighting in seeing him face to face!
No, we aren't ordered to keep slaves, just instructed in how to do it properly, and occasionally told to enslave a specific neighboring country. Which in turn means that slavery is approved of by your god - something that is completely abhorrent to civilized man today. Your god's morals need badly to catch up there and in many other areas.
Or have they? Do you deny that slavery is OK, even though god says it is? Do you deny what He says? Do you follow that greatest of all morals, the Golden Rule, and no longer continue the Christian effort to enforce your morals on everyone around you? Do you deny that gay's are sinners simply because god designed them so? Do you deny the barbaric morals and practices required by the Christian god of the OT, pushing them from you wherever possible?
Or are you one of the more common ones, accepting that God's demands were sometimes foolish, extreme and immoral while others that still cause great harm to people are OK because you don't act that way anyway? Where do you lie here?
Yes, that would be YOUR view, but it isn't the view of everyone, which is the point you need to understand, that if you want to believe that nonsense, that is fine, but you also have to allow others to believe what they want without pushing your beliefs onto them and telling them what they have to do.
No - the correct term is rationalization. I don't like what is happening: I will rationalize that it is Satan and not God that is the driving force behind it.
I don't have any evidence either way, but god is good, satan is bad. Eating grass is silly in my opinion (never mind it could be a test from God, never mind that it could be a learning experience to not question god, never mind that god may have put extra nutrition into that grass and the people were starving) so it has to come from Satan and I will not do it. Because I don't want to eat grass.
He is a man of god, with the exact same evidence and proof you offer; his word.
Nope - not a slave of satan. A slave to my own mind, perhaps, and definitely to the quest for truth. But not to a pretend demon from the mists of antiquity.
Did you listen as you typed? Question everything except what you believe, without proof, is the Spirit and the Word. Doesn't make much sense, does it? Not without that "proof" thing, it doesn't, but then that's why it needs questioned. To see if it's true or you are mistaken about it being the Word or Spirit of God. Satan is, after all, pretty sneaky about that kind of thing.
And if you aren't going to judge the correctness of eating grass, why aren't you out there eating it? Answer - because you are going to judge it, you are going to question it. You just don't question the things you like to hear, limiting your questions to things you don't want to do.
But then that's what the world of theology is all about isn't it; question the things you don't like (gay marriage, maybe) but never the things you DO like (not needing years of study to understand where we came from).
"Proof and evidences" do not make a person a follower of the true God. The Spirit is the only one who can confirm this. Now I do understand that without the Spirit you cannot discern between God and evil spirits, and so without spiritual eyes, all people claiming to be followers of God look the same to you. This is spiritually discerned and not of value to you yet.
Eating grass doesn't fall under the category of "right and wrong" biblically speaking, so it seems within the realm of possibility that it was intended for some point. If the behavior was something that defied God (harming a child, for example), then it would be clear that the man was following demons and not the true God.
I question anything that opposes God, the Word, love and so on, whether from worldly or so-called "religious" people.
Proof and evidence don't make someone a follower, but it is the only way for YOU to know if they are or not.
Notwithstanding your claim that God will speak to you and tell you what is right or wrong, but not to anyone else. A trifle egocentric aren't we?
As far as harming a child being defiance of God, I seem to remember God teaching a specific person that they must be ready to do just that in order to be in His good graces. And not just harm, but burn the child alive! I don't think you have a very good handle on what your god wants of mankind. You are far too civilized to understand what a horrible creature the god portrayed in the Christian bible really is.
God speaks to people from every tribe and nation, absolutely not to me alone! He speaks to any who will listen, and those who are his do listen. God does not show favoritism, but accepts people from every place and situation. "Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." They will recognize his voice and follow him. They will test the spirits. They will back away from that which is not from God.
Sacrificing children to demon gods within many false religions inspired by Satan himself is clearly detestable to God if you read the Word. God will never call any of us to harm a child. Abraham alone was directed to sacrifice Isaac because it was a foreshadowing of God and Jesus, and an important test of Abraham's faith in the goodness and power of God, as Abraham was going to be the "father" of all of us who also will live by faith. Abraham knew his good God would not take the child of promise from him, and he believed this all the way. And of course God did not have Abraham harm Isaac; he saved that most tragic experience for himself as Father and himself as Son (Jesus). NEVER will God direct any of us to harm a child, or even test us as he did Abraham because the purpose was so specific and so important as to be the one and only incident of it; there will be no further need for such a point to be made - Never again will God send his son Jesus as a sacrifice; the next time Jesus comes it will be with the multitude of heavenly hosts and he will reign and bring the promised victory.
Good grief; make up your mind! God would never tell us to harm a child, He told Abraham to do so. Which is it? And if he won't tell us to do so, He'll just do it himself, as in the bears He sent to rip apart 42 children, as in the innocent first born of Egypt He murdered, as in the children and infants of Sodom He flayed alive with brimstone.
Nor do you have the faintest idea of what was in Abraham's mind; there are no records that Abraham left saying what he was thinking. While it will certainly make you feel better to believe that he knew he wouldn't have to burn his child, there is no indication at all that he ever thought that. Only that he was prepared to do as his god had ordered him to - a very scary thought and one at the root of 911 and the crusades.
God never told a person before Abraham, nor after Abraham, to literally sacrifice their child, nor will he ever. Again, Abraham alone, chosen as the one who would be the "father" of those who live by faith had his faith tested to the utmost, and as stated, Abraham and Isaac were foreshadowing God the Father and Jesus the Son and their sacrifice.
Yes, through the Word, I do know Abraham trusted God not to take his child of promise because he told his son that God would "provide" the sacrifice, indicating he deep down knew God would not let Isaac be the sacrifice.
There is one who has come to kill, steal and destroy (that is the devil). All people die sooner or later, but we find it particularly troubling if it happens sooner rather than later. Yet death is not the same in the sight of God and man because God sees the other side. Just like a baby in the womb has great distress upon being born, not able to understand that it is better to be born here than stay in the womb, so also we think it is better to stay here, not realizing it is better to enter eternal life with God. All children who die before the age of accountability are believed to go to God the Father (Jesus said the children's angels always see the face of the Father). Maybe God is taking them straight to himself before they are corrupted by the world and before they would turn away based on their environment (since he has expressed a desire to include people from all nations in heaven, perhaps he is taking children to himself who would otherwise not come to him based on the beliefs of their nation), and/or he is taking them sooner rather than later because in eternity he has a special purpose for those he takes as children. It is written, "Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints", making it very clear that just as the birth of our children here is precious to us, so also the "birth" of all of us who are going to God is so precious to him.
If a person is following a demon god, yes, it is very scary what they are prepared to do, and 911 is a perfect example. Christians, on the other hand, are not instructed to kill people (I am not speaking of those who follow demons yet are falsely claiming to be Christians) because we are in the age of favor and grace through Jesus' work on the cross on our behalf.
The no true scottsman fallacy. Instead of recognizing that Christians are not immune from doing horrible things, just say that they're not "true" christians and that they are instead following some demon god, which has also similarly not been proven to exist.
Are you aware of the story of Jephthah in the bible?
Can you make a single post without a single fallacious argument?
I didn't say Christians are immune from doing horrible things; humans don't get that much credit from me. The point I made is that the true God is not instructing his people to harm or kill in the age of favor and grace; they are called to love and forgive. Those who hear a "god" instructing them to kill or harm someone are not following the true God but demons.
and that is the no true scottsman fallacy again.
Can you prove demons exist? Unlikely since you can't prove god exists either.
Didn't god command the Israelites to murder thousands of men, women, children and animals in the conquest of Caanaan? thou shalt not kill unless I order you to do it? Or were the Jews following demons, and not the real god? How do you tell the difference, since you can't see either one of them?
That's why I made the distinction that we are in the age of favor and grace - the Jew's promised Messiah, Jesus, has now already come and given himself as the sacrifice so that all humans are now given the opportunity to respond to God's call and be declared righteous through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.
Yes, the Israelites were instructed to wipe out all from Caanaan, and no it was not a demon god but the true God who gave them the instruction. God is the author of life and he can determine when a person's time on earth is done. Those in Canaan were threats to God's children, the Israelites; they had taken over the land God had given the Israelites as their eternal inheritance; they followed demons and they committed the most detestable of acts - they killed and sacrificed their children to demon gods. The children of Canaan who died as children are the blessed ones - the ones who are not responsible for their nation's acts and who will be in the presence of the Lord for eternity.
See, you're contradicting yourself.
You said that god would not order people to harm children, and that anyone who said otherwise was following a demon god. Now you're saying that god did, in fact, order people to harm children - even ripping open pregnant woman's bellies with swords, ripping the unborn children out and dashing them upon rocks - but that was okay because the inhabitants of the jew's inherited land were wicked and deserved it. Furthermore, that the children that were ripped from the womb and murdered were BLESSED to be treated that way. Additionally, for the virgins who were kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery by the men who had murdered their families - were they blessed too?
Why would an almighty god order his people to commit such atrocities and not wipe the "wicked" inhabitants of Canaan out by himself? Surely it was within his power. Or was he just too lazy and had to have people do it for him? The god of the old testament was drunk with blood, enjoyed the smell of burning flesh and just wanted to be cruel. I see. Now why on earth would you worship such a being? If he ordered such things today would you follow through and commit those horrendously immoral acts on his behalf? Would you think the people opposed to it were following a demon god? Seriously twisted stuff, that.
I have never met someone who doesn't believe in god, yet hates him/her/it. I've never met an atheist who hated Christians either. We may hate what they do in the name of their religion, and we may criticize their beliefs, but that doesn't mean that we hate the person who holds them. What are you talking about, or you just trying to create a mindset of fear and hate against people who do not believe the same things that you do? You're hate mongering.
Actually, I'm not trying to please anybody. I am who I am, God or humans alike can take me as I am.
However, I will not judge an atheist because we don't serve the same master. I will say I've never met an atheist that hates God. Never. They may hate Christians, they may hate religion, but they don't hate God.
I try not to judge other Christians either, but zealots make it so hard on me. I end up asking forgiveness everytime I see someone embarrassing all Christians in general and saying they are doing it in Christ's name when OBVIOUSLY they are only doing it for themselves. I usually end up reminding them that they are selfish and egotistical and full of pride and then asking Jesus for forgiveness later.
What I see here is a thought process that is so sure that it's inferior that it's trying to keep other people stupid so that they won't stray. That's what abusive husbands do. That's not what Jesus would have done.
If you truly believed you were right, science wouldn't threaten you so much. It obviously does, so you are obviously scared of something and unsure of yourself and your faith.
I know all the theories to the best of my intelligence, which is fair to above average. I still follow Jesus. I don't need to be ignorant and ill-informed to do such. It really makes me angry that atheists assume that you have to be stupid to be a Christian. It makes me even more angry when CHRISTIANS assume that you have to be stupid to be a Christian.
I don't particularly enjoy the company of fools.
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