If gays are a culture, then the gays population of the world is triple the population of Christian America.
Why is there not a gay president or powers or other powers to stop allowing gays to be illegal in 80 countries. Watch! Pot made legal will be like the next gay marriage too.
Culture is a beliefs, or customs, arts, etc., of a particular society, group, place, or time. enlightenment and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training. Its own beliefs, ways of life,: a way of thinking, working behavior in business or beauty prepared nutrient media; also in product.etc
Much of the christian culture has harmed gay culture, if there were a gay culture like Christian culture. Mostly in the Laws and rights to Love each other and in their diversity way of life to serve all others.
How has gays harmed Christians in anyway? Christain have harmed gays by way of marriage or to be voted into high public office, or to fight for a country, ect....every part of life in religion has harm gays and made them ill-legal in 80 predominate religious countries
You say Christians have made marriage illegal, but as you can see homosexuality is illegal in many countries that are not Christian countries at all.
Africa (Christianity, Islam)
18 Malawi (enforcement of law suspended)
25 Sao Tome
28 Sierra Leone
30 South Sudan
Asia, including the Middle East (Islam and Hinduism, Buddhism)
52 Palestine/Gaza Strip
54 Saudi Arabia
56 Sri Lanka
59 United Arab Emirates
Two Asian/Middle Eastern countries were listed separately by ILGA under the heading “Legal status of homosexual acts unclear or uncertain”:
In Iraq, (Islam) there is no law against homosexual acts, but homophobic violence is unchecked and self-appointed sharia judges reportedly have imposed sentences for homosexual behavior.
In India, enforcement of the law against homosexual activity had been suspended by court action, but the Supreme Court overturned that ruling on Dec. 11, 2013, so India is back on the main list of countries with anti-homosexuality laws.
62 Antigua & Barbuda
69 St Kitts & Nevis
70 St Lucia
71 St Vincent & the Grenadines
72 Trinidad & Tobago
In the United States (Protestant, Catholicism), anti-sodomy laws were ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2003, but they are still on the books in 13 states: Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and Virginia. Conservative state legislators refuse to repeal the laws and, in some cases, police still enforce them. Reportedly, in the past few years more than a dozen LGBT people were arrested for violating those laws, but the arrestees were freed because prosecutors won’t seek convictions based on defunct laws.
73 Cook Islands
74 Indonesia (Aceh Province and South Sumatra)
78 Papua New Guinea
80 Solomon Islands
83 Northern Cyprus (Greek Orthodox/Sunni Muslim)
Also in Europe and worth mentioning but not on that list of countries with laws against homosexuality are:
Russia, (eastern orthodox) which enacted a law in 2013 prohibiting any positive mention of homosexuality in the presence of minors, including online;
Ukraine, (Ukrainian Greek Catholic) which has considered, but so far has not adopted a similar law against “gay propaganda.”
Moldova, (Christianity, Eastern orthodox) which adopted and then repealed such a law in 2013.
All very good points. It shows that much of our world is still engulfed with ignorance and bigotry and that we have a long way to go to educate people.
Stipulated to be true.
What does that have to do with the claim that Christian culture is hurting gays (I presume that was what you are objecting to)? Are you trying to say that Christianity is associated with being a third world, barbaric country still not very civilized and should be forgiven for their barbarism? Vatican city is technically a country in many ways...
I've also stated it is ill-legal in 80 predominate religious countries
Here are the predominate Christian countries
Antiqua and Barbuda
Papua New Guinea
St Kitts & Nevis
Sao Tome and Principe
Trinidad and Tobago
Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
Many of these countries are small and the illegal law can be unclear. It was clear to me in Belize when ship of gays had booked to tour in Belize and they were refuse to dock anywhere on their soil.
Laws are changing fast, yet I dare anyone to tell these gay's in these countries their ultimate love for each other is illegal.
I don't know that calling people barbaric, for having different value systems is wise. We, to them, are (I'm sure) considered barbaric for openly accepting all sexual orientations.
Using such terms prematurely closes any avenue of communication on the subject.
*shrug* I'm sure you're right - that they call us barbarians even as they perform female genital mutilation and terrorize the girl's school down the road. Even as they murder a girl for being raped or for having the wrong color skin. Or jail/murder a loving couple for being gay.
Some nations outgrew that kind of thing earlier than others, that's all. There are all sorts of value systems; some require total obeisance, some allow more freedom to be yourself.
Not saying I'd want to live in any of those countries you label barbaric, but that is your label that can easily be thrown back at you. Pointless words meant to rouse an emotional response. If it made you feel better to say it, great. But, seriously, other than possibly making yourself feel self righteous....what point did it serve?
I'm never going to get married until all gays can get married.
More likely, I will never get married.
Those things are barbaric.
What do you call them, "cultural differences"?
If a thing's wrong, say it's wrong, in my opinion. Genital mutilation, wrong. Inquisition, wrong. Human sacrifice, wrong. Overboard capitalism, wrong. Slavery, wrong.
Over large corporation or world of the classes, I think is most damaging today because poverty harms and kills most. At lease gays help reduced the over population better than the . to be over fruitful and XXX.
Still don't know if gays is a culture, other than the power of love.
And they (nearly) all cause great harm/death to human beings for no more reason than that they are different. Such actions are "primitive; unsophisticated", or barbaric by definition.
I feel enlightened, in that such behavior patterns are abhorrent; in my eyes. I would like to believe that, with education, they would be abhorrent in the eyes of others.
But, that doesn't make these actions wrong, or evil, in the eyes of those who feel somehow justified. I think viewing these people as evil would constitute evil (by that definition used to categorize them)
There has to be a compassionate line of communication opened. One end has to start it. Self righteous lines in the sand serve only the egos drawing them.
We are all barbarians, in one way or another. Using the term to classify those who live in societies our government bombs, while we watch Netflix to avoid staring into the mirror, is the height of hypocrisy.
I don't view "these people" as evil. I don't view anyone as "evil". Of course we are ALL barbaric. That was my point. I never singled out any particular group. If you go back and review my list of things I think can be considered "wrong", I think you might agree. I even mentioned "overboard capitalism". I certainly don't exclude MYSELF as a wrongdoer.
I view the sense of right and wrong as instinctive. As a tool God gave us.
I don't think bad behavior should be excused because "everyone else does it". Which is the same thing as blaming it on the culture one was brought up in. I will concede that it can be difficult for a person to realize that what on the surface is "ok" to do, because it is oked by the culture they live in, and to listen to the inner voice that tells them "something is wrong with this". That is why I in fact, DO have sympathy for other people, whether you like to believe that or not.
I don't remember saying i didn't think you had sympathy for others, nor did I say bad behavior should be excused because of the culture. What I will say is you can't simply say God tells them it's wrong and use that as justification for labeling their actions barbaric. Because some of these actions are directly tied to edicts given by their religious books. It seems a little twisted to have a book from God telling you to do the exact opposite of what the tool God gave you is advising.
"What I will say is you can't simply say God tells them it's wrong and use that as justification for labeling their actions barbaric"
Well, I did and I am.
"It seems a little twisted to have a book from God telling you to do the exact opposite of what the tool God gave you is advising."
There are no books from God.
No books from God, but God tells everyone what's right and what's wrong. We'll know which is which because it will match what you believe. Sure. Must be true since you say so.
Through our conscience.
You believe what you believe, I believe what I do.
If you choose to believe the devil made you do it then by all means, stick to your guns.
I've been there, done that. Then I chose to believe I have personal responsibility for my actions.
That's rich. I didn't say anything about a devil making anyone do anything. I suppose putting words in other people's mouths helps shore up your philosophy.
My "philosophy" that people are responsible for their own actions?
Is that something you disagree with?
Where do you think "evil" comes from? Does it not come from a person's choice not to do the right thing?
Evil is a label you choose to apply. It is not one I choose to apply, so I can't answer that for you.
We are responsible for our own actions. But, we also bear some responsibility for the reactions of others. If we don't accept our part, then we contribute to the problem.
You were the first to mention the word "evil". I was responding to that. That's why I was using quotes. Because I don't believe in evil.
"But, that doesn't make these actions wrong, or evil, in the eyes of those who feel somehow justified. I think viewing these people as evil would constitute evil (by that definition used to categorize them)"
Right there, if you need a reminder.
Who writes the rules of what is right, God maybe. If they are wrong they can always blame horny Satan. To have same sex in 80 countries illegal is deep in absences of reason, the closest thing to evil in my books.
I don't understand the word evil that well neither. Or words like evil doers or evil people or bad to the bone. I personally never met people like that, maybe my x wife,( just kidding). Perfer the words healthy or unhealthy. People who hate gays that much, have an unhealthy attitute towards them. Or think of them having mental illness problem by giving gays peoples death penelties rather than allowing them to love each other.
Rather see two making love than two people killing each other, too bad thats not the way Religion veiws it.
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