Democracy promotes Capitalism through liberty. But liberty is impossible without boundaries. The excesses of capitalism and all the problems caused by greedy government politicians / business moguls can be corrected by following the Golden Rule which not only Jesus brought but many other prophets and spiritual leaders.
Until we (they) all get on this page, the problems of humanity will not be solved.
Having that actually happen though is far beyond my personal scope of belief.
When the majority catches on…
The power is in the numbers.
It can start today with each of us.
It ain't that difficult!
When the majority holds them accountable, by simply not buying their products or by not re-electing them, we have the say and the POWER. Please don't throw out that power by advocating socialism . yuk.
See, jane... I knew religion would end up becoming involved with politics… The framers knew that democracy had to be tempered with morals. Freedom of religion fans the flame of religion and therefore morals.
This is why we must fight godlessness. God = Life. The spirit of rebellion has gone on long enough.
I don't really advocate socialism. I like the idea, but in all practicality, I know it doesn't work. We just aren't "bees", if you know what I mean. Humans are naturally hierarchical.
Communism, won't even go there. That's completely unnatural to humans.
A dictatorship is probably the most "natural", as an extreme form of tribalism (which I think is our natural state). However, that is impractical with a society this large. It also sucks beyond measure, and creates the worst type of society.
A democracy is best for our current condition. It causes a lot of problems (majority rule isn't always wonderful if the majority is immature, or won't be civically responsible. It turns into a popularity contest as well).
Democracy is the best idea, for now, until we can grow more mature as individuals and as a species as a whole.
I have hope for this. Of course, you already know my reasons why, and they are spiritual.
Yes. Thank goodness for you.
You are in good company.
The Framers were also quite spiritual.
I don't know a lot about he Framers, but I do know that a good majority of them were Freemasons. Freemasonry may have lost it's meaning these days, but at one point at least, it was definitely based on spirituality. Becoming a good man, charity, strength, empathy, and hermetic spiritual beliefs. All the crap said about freemasonry(at least original freemasonry) is basically a load of crap. It was warped beyond recognition over the years. I have no idea what it's actually like today. I don't like everything about it though, especially that it is sexist.
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Unites States Constitution
"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.
"That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;
"But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."
--Benjamin Franklin wrote this in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790.
"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."
--Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."
What do you think we are fighting?
I'm not sure we are fighting anything other than our own baser instincts to be selfish/greedy. Our "animal' instincts. I think we maybe have an internal fight in each of us, whether to give in to our natural selfish urges, or to listen to the quieter, meeker altruistic voice inside. (I say this "quiet voice" comes from a divine source, but I know others will say it is just a matter of learned ethics)
Who did Jesus fight for forty days? No, I think there is indeed a supernatural force trying to get us. You know, dark and light, yin and yang, good and bad, god and the devil, all make up the illusionary world of Maya. By fighting the darkness we strengthen the force of light. We cannot stop fighting the Devil who is gaining support. We must support the other side.
As far as our freedom here in US (and elsewhere:) We must identify those who are breaking the boundaries of doing unto others as they would have others do unto them. - pure and simple. (Russia)
Like not re-electing the career politicians. Like not supporting corporations who are exploiting children in other countries, etc. wouldn't that be Nike? I do not know. We need to FIND OUT. We have to do some researching and
finger pointing. (Putin)
(And, janesix I agree with what you said.)
If we loose the fight within us we loose the fight without us.
This is where the battle begins.
I am not preaching, just thinking out loud.
"Like not re-electing the career politicians. like not supporting corporationw who are exploiting children in other countries, etc. wouldn't that be Nike? I do not know. We need to FIND OUT . We have to do some research and
Yes, definitely. I agree wholeheartedly on that.
I actually didn't realize you were a Christian (that seems to be what you are getting at, I think). So I don't want to offend you or anything. I just don't believe in good and evil, and Satan, although I've been there a couple of times. But I do believe in God and spirituality. I believe in Good, but not Evil. I think "evil" is just going against what good is, and that comes from God. I think everyone has at least some small bit of good in them, even the worst of us humans.
No jane, I learned from my guru from the east,( India,) that once he had to actually fight off a physical force, a cat-like entity that attacked him! Before that I thought like you. But, there must be a a force of evil!
How else was Hitler so deluded? And all the other really horrible things that occur in this world????? My brother who is a Catholic does not believe the story about Jesus confronting the devil for forty days. I do. And yes I am a Christian in that my guru from India and Jesus "drink from the same cup."
(The potential of our own Christ Consciousness is what Jesus came to reveal to all humanity.)
I'm not really trying to argue, but I want you to see my point of view, and that I do understand yours.
I've been through all of this. I thought there was an actual evil force too. What I think it is is just an internal battle. We interpret it in a variety of ways, and feeling it is an outside force is what often happens. I fought my internal battles, and won. To me, I've realized it was just me fighting my subconscious nature away from Good. I think that is the whole point of that particular battle. To realize that it's an interior phenomenon, and not an external one.. God/Good is within us. We are the Temple of God. Some of us want to go back there to God, and some of us like it here, where free will reigns, and they like seperateness from God. Some, the horrible ones, like Hitler, are so far from God that they don't realize who they are. They choose to go against Good in a major way.
Well, you disagree with Thomas Jefferson and I just wonder if he is not right.
Anyway, I do not have to worry about it!
So, atheists do not believe in the devil do they! never thought about that… My guru refers to evil as "satanic delusion." He attributes all negative emotions to "satanic delusion."
I'm not saying I'm right. I just believe I am:)
If I'm wrong, then it doesn't make that much of a difference. Because if I'm wrong, and you are right, we STILL know who wins in the end, right? God will win.
The only reason I think that I'm right is that I simply can't believe in Hell. I don't see how a loving God(and I know he is the very epitome of Love) would send a good hearted atheist to Hell, just because he won't or can't Believe.
God does not send people to hell. You know that. God is Love and Light. We send ourselves to hell through engaging in satanic delusion.
That I have to disagree with. A loving God wouldn't even create Hell in the first place.
I don't think God punishes. Just lets us look at our faults, and decide whether we want to change them or not.
I think the concept of Hell is just reincarnation. If we choose not to put in the effort to change ourselves, we have to come back here to this plane of Earthly life. If we don't WANT to go back to God, we don't have to, and thus this Earthly life is Heaven if that's what you want. It's heaven or hell here, by our own choice and our own making. Going back to God, I believe, is just choosing to be reunited with our source. Not everyone wants that. That's why we're down here. There are nice things down here, and bad ones. Some of us get tired of the whole mess, and want to go home.
Indeed following the Golden Rule can curb the excesses of Capitalism.
As well as those of socialism, communism and all the other "isms". It can (and will, if followed) curb the excesses of Islam and Christianity, of all the other religions and philosophies as well.
The Golden Rule is the root of all other valid morals and ethics. Not Christianity, not Islam, not god and not Jesus; the Golden Rule. It is at least paid lip service to in nearly all cultures of the world, although unfortunately lip service is usually about all.
"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.
"That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion…
- this! Written by someone who disdained dogma: Good ol' B. Franklin!
That's nice, but I'm not sure just what the imaginings of people long ago have to do with much of anything.
That Ben could come to a similar answer is to his credit; that he believed in the supernatural is not and of course the decision that we will be treated with justice in another life is just...well, it's just a pretty story, that's all.
Sorry, Kathryn, but that's how it is.
The greedy should be ashamed! Thats all I can say. They will reap their just rewards.
Through their own self-created hell.
And we we MUST stop them from dragging us down along with them.
It doesn't really matter who is right. Whether there is Satan or not, or even God or not.
We all still agree that "evil" must be fought against. That we all need to be active in righting wrongs, protecting innocents from danger, helping each other out and being altruistic.
Being nice to each other.
Yes, but only to a point. Carry the concept too far, to say ultimate socialism where everyone shares equally in all production, and the end result is that no one has anything.
This is mostly a result of human nature, but not greed. It comes from wanting results from work, which is not a bad thing; without it we would all labor endlessly for little to no return.
Yeah, that's true too. I'm a hippie at heart (or something like that), but I can also see the value of being practical. Kind of like How I said earlier in the thread that Democracy is not my personal favorite brand of society, I still think it's the best thing that will work for us. I would rather there be socialism, but I've seen it NOT work. I know logically, it won't work. It doesn't work.
Think carefully...who would you prefer to work for… yourself or the government?
Would be necessarily to identify ourself in order to those who think alike, believe and do know alike will unite under the same banner against the opposite side those who are not " with us" identified as the enemy. As Jesus from Nazareth had done it in his victorious confrontation with the devil- tempter- satan the enemy both of the God and of a man, using the same overcoming power of the Word " it is written." Once we engage in " warfare" we have to bare in mind we do " fight " not on our own, "the greater is with us."
Well, who is the "enemy"? Those who don't believe in Jesus?
I don't have any enemies. I might help you if you needed it. I would almost surely protect myself from immediate threat.
Where and who are these enemies you're talking about?
What's the war?
The answers to all your questions, and more are found in the Book.
I've read the Bible. I'm assuming that is what you mean.
Do you think Armageddon is near, or here already?
I am also assuming you must believe I am one of your enemies, as I am not a Christian. I hope not though, because I'm not your enemy at all.
Still, it would be easier for me to know what you're getting at if you were more direct. Then I wouldn;'t have to guess and assume things.
Correct, BIBLOS- bible - BOOK; Not having in mind Armagedon nor guessing interpretation the signs of times. As far as your assumption , it's according to your choice,; however concerning your belief of me, is far from truth since we don't know each other and I would not make anyone a personal enemy, regardless of being " Christians" or none Christians - in real life I rather have on each side common " friends. ". Matter of earlier reference to the " enemy" or Satan, or. " warfare" points to the real- spiritual- world of two eternal entities God- the. Creator and the enemy of God and all mankind which has it origin in the garden! when Satan used the body of a serpant and has deceived Eve to distrust the Creator. Right there Gen. 3:15 the God has pronounced " the enmity" between satan and " ha-adam" - mankind, and between your seeds and her seed - leading toward birth of the Messiah - the story you already know. ..
Now, since the redemptive sacrifice of " the Lamb" upon the cross and the victorious resurrection of the " son of the man" - God's love toward His man (John 3:16 ) has open the door to everyone who would choose to come back into the family relationship with the Father as originally intended ( John 1:12,13 ).From here on , those two sides are referd to as previously stated by Jesus " who is not with us, is against us " ( you will noticed no label " "Christians " in his vocabulary) until later in man made tradition - translated - for the membership sake , if you will... HOWEVER, the point is " our warfare are not physical ( weapons of flesh and blood) ... For though we walk (live ) in the flesh, we are not carying our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons... But they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds ... ( you can red more in 2. Corinth. 10: 3-5 ).
Now I have to leave...
Ok. Thanks for straightening that out for me.
Now I know what you were talking about.
I, too, think that spiritual warfare(even Armageddon) is an internal battle, not an outer one. I think it's great we at least agree on that.
The only thing we seem to disagree on is that I think the internal battle is with ourselves, not Satan or any other outside force.
I like what you revealed here. Thank you M. M.
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