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jump to last post 1-2 of 2 discussions (25 posts)

Why converse of G-d is needed by humans?

  1. profile image59
    paarsurreyposted 3 years ago

    This is because logic and reasoning alone cannot lead to the perfect cognition of G-d.

    Everyone’s thoughts are welcome whether one belongs to a religion or no religion.

    Regards

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      And what is the converse of god?  Reason and knowledge?

      1. profile image59
        paarsurreyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        It is Word of Revelation by G-d descended on the Prophets/Messengers for guidance of humanity.

        Regards

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          The converse of God is the Christian bible?  An odd definition, I must say.  Or did you mean conversation with a god?  Or conversing about a god with other people?

          1. profile image59
            paarsurreyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Any Converse of G-d with the truthful persons like Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, the original words revealed in any language of any religion at any time.

            Regards

    2. Righteous Atheist profile image59
      Righteous Atheistposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      I am assuming you mean "conversation"? If not ignore my answer.

      People who believe in god need to talk about it in order to attempt to get validation for something they know in their hearts to be false. Hence the arguments and conflict surrounding this concept.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
        Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        Perfect cognition of God does require more than logic and reason. It is definitely fruitless and to no avail to converse about G-D. So,why do we? 

        Why do I?

        Because I imagine (young) others will read what the atheists have to say and become convinced there is No God and that is horrible to me. Just horrible. Mine is a knee jerk response to the ideas of atheists. If there were no atheists keyboarding here on the HP Forums, I would not be keyboarding in the religious/philosophy forums at all.
        I acknowledge it is a problem that I have. One of these days I will get over it. Meanwhile...

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
          Righteous Atheistposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          I just explained why you feel the need.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
            Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            Well, I disagree. It is because of atheism. I can't stand it.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
              Righteous Atheistposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, I know it makes you angry that some people don't believe your claims. This is why religionists have spent so much time murdering non believers. Why does it make you so angry that I don't believe you?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                Oh no... you completely, utterly and profoundly misunderstand me.
                Anger has nothing to do with it. Fear does. The spread and acceptance of the ideas of atheism by the youth frightens me. I never claimed that some people not believing my claims makes me angry.
                Why do you misunderstand me like that?

                PS I keyboard for those who would like to consider an alternative to atheism. Thats all.
                (PSS I have nothing against atheists personally, after all, I was one at one time.)


                PMC

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image59
                  Righteous Atheistposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Fear breeds anger and hatred. What are these "ideas of atheism," you are so scared of?

                  PS. I don't think any reasonable person is likely to take what you say too seriously.
                  PPS. You clearly have something against atheists. You just said so.

                  NGBWRA

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                    I disagree. I have nothing against atheists, for instance I like you. We are friends, right? But sadly, you said:

                    No Good Being With Righteous Atheist ( ? ) lol

  2. profile image59
    paarsurreyposted 3 years ago

    Why converse of G-d is needed by humans?

    The study of creation alone cannot lead to perfect certainty (about God) is proven by the fact that creation is not a book wherein one can read plainly that all these things have been created by God, that God in fact exists, that the joy of meeting Him is the ultimate bliss and that He will reward those who are obedient and punish the transgressors.

    Rather, when one observes Allah’s creation and finds the design of this universe to be perfect and flawless, one can only conclude, by way of conjecture, that there ‘ought to be’ a Creator of this creation.

    However, there is a great difference between the import of ‘ought to be’ and ‘is’. There is an element of doubt in ‘ought to be’ and it does not bring about the degree of certainty that ‘is’ does.

    When a person says by way of conjecture that such and such a thing ‘ought to be’ he means to say only that it has to exist so far as his reasoning is concerned, but he is unable to say whether or not it actually exists.

    This is why all those who have restricted themselves to the study of nature have never agreed upon a conclusion—neither do they now, nor will it be possible in the future.

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (see p. 41)
    Barahin-E- Ahamdiyya— Part three

    1. Jomine Jose profile image72
      Jomine Joseposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      http://s2.hubimg.com/u/11958515.jpg

      I am sure you will not want to see some other "perfect and flawless" design like harlequin or anencephaly.

      1. profile image59
        paarsurreyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        I think you missed the point.

        Regards

        1. Jomine Jose profile image72
          Jomine Joseposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          I think you either missed it or you have none because 'existence' has nothing to do with consensus or what one thinks about it.

    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

      "Rather, when one observes Allah’s creation and finds the design of this universe to be perfect and flawless, one can only conclude, by way of conjecture, that there ‘ought to be’ a Creator of this creation."

      Perfect?  Flawless?  I assume you don't live in New Orleans.  Or Japan.  Or Pahoa, Hawaii.  Or around the time of the dinosaur killer asteroid. 

      One can only assume that the universe was "created" by chance, without regard to the needs of life or humanity.

      1. profile image59
        paarsurreyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

        I think you missed the point.

        Regards

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

          Oh?  If it isn't perfect, what IS the point?

          1. profile image59
            paarsurreyposted 3 years agoin reply to this

            The point is:

            When a person says by way of conjecture that such and such a thing ‘ought to be’ he means to say only that it has to exist so far as his reasoning is concerned, but he is unable to say whether or not it actually exists.

            The reason would never be in consensus, it could be fifty/fifty sometimes more some times less from group to group.

            The near-certainty or certainty would be with consensus if our faculties are normal.

            I think it helps.

            Regards

            1. Jomine Jose profile image72
              Jomine Joseposted 3 years agoin reply to this

              Not exactly, our faculties are indeed normal, for  the animal we are. It is being honest and rising above our instincts that can bring consensus with reason.

 
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