The earth experiencing birth pangs

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Faith Reaperposted 10 years ago

To those who believe the Bible to be the infallible Word of God:

Do you believe the earth is experiencing birth pangs as told in scripture at Matthew 24:6-8, which states:

"6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs."

This morning when I opened my laptop, sadly, I saw where a historic earthquake, 7.9 magnitude, hit Nepal, then I noticed today that Chile had a volcano to erupt twice in 24 hours. Also, today in the headlines, scientists discovered another giant super volcano at Yellowstone National Park just under the reservoir. It is 30 miles long, 44 miles wide and 12 miles deep, and if erupted could fill the Grand Canyon 11 times over. This is causing the ground to move up and down and last year the ground rose a foot higher. Plus, keeping in mind of the Ebola virus outbreak. These natural disasters appear to be occurring more frequently than in the past and getting closer and closer from reading the daily news all around the world. If you believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God, do you think the earth is experiencing birth pangs as described in scripture? Thank you for your participation.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  "These natural disasters are occurring more frequently than in the past and getting closer and closer."
  
  Where's your source for this?
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they are occurring more frequently it seems just as birth pangs come closer when about to give birth.
  
  I just turned on my laptop this morning and all of these were on my home page. You can Google all of these as they are in today's news.
  
  I quoted the scripture from the Bible, Matthew 24: 6-8. There is also other parallel scripture in the Holy Bible at Luke 21:12, which states: "11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
  12 “But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name."
  
  And Mark 13:8-11, which states:
  
  "8 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.
  9 “You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations. 11 Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit."
  
  Thank you for posting.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have the scientific data that more earthquakes are happening lately?
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I am just curious as to what I just read this morning in the news about all of these happenings of late and wondered if others who believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God believe, that these are signs of the birth pangs as described in scripture is all.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  When we visited Yellowstone a decade ago we were told that the entire park is one giant caldera (volcano). This is nothing new, nor are the hundreds of earthquakes that happen there every day.
  
  And did you know that the hot spot under Yellowstone has erupted, not once, but many times in the past? There is a chain of extinct volcanoes leading SW from Yellowstone; as the earth's surface moves away from that hot spot it produces an extinct volcano and the hot area deep under the mantle will eventually erupt again to form a new volcano. This too, then, is nothing new and has been going on for millions of years.
  
  The only thing new about earthquakes and volcanoes is the number of people killed, and that should be expected as the earth's population grows.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  70,000 years ago, a volcano erupted and reduced the human population down to a few thousand. Now THAT would be an "end of the world" scenario. And yet, we still rebounded.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for your participation in the forum, but this forum is addressed to those who believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God. Thank you.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  This is an open forum, and when I see fear mongering, I will definitely respond to it.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I am not fear mongering, and I am simply inquiring as to what other believers think as to the what is happening as relates to scripture. There is nothing to fear. Thank you.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  "These natural disasters are occurring more frequently than in the past and getting closer and closer."
  
  Please stop posting things that are untrue.
  
  Thank you.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I am just relaying what I on the news today and inquiring if others think that these appear to be happening more frequently. I am not asking for a scientific response just a simply inquiry ...do they seem more frequent to you and not stating a fact but an observation from just reading the daily news is all.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.structuralgeology.org/2011/0 … world.html
  
  Here are the facts.
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  Phil Perezposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Whenever you don't know something, Faith it's due to fear. When something like earthquakes or volcanoes happen (that are not in your control) there is a sense of fear. If you weren't scared, you would have a solution to prevent them from happening. That's the principle.
  
  You're reacting to the word "fear" rather than understanding what it is. Definitions of words are deeper than what they seem in dictionaries. Remember that...
  
  Humans have been around for many years and janesix is right, we've always come back from natural disaster (the black plague arguably being the biggest). At some point, it's possible that we won't be ready for a disaster because it'll be too strong and too lethal for us to have enough time to prevent it. Causing the end of the world to occur.
  
  This has nothing to the Bible predicting the apocalypse, Faith. It's just the world "balancing" itself. It's been scientifically explained why tornadoes or tsunamis or volcanoes happen.
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  Phil Perezposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  PS. Don't thank me for my answer please. Just respond if you think you have a valuable answer to answer. And not a biased one like using God to justify your answer.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Phil, I have not even thought about fear here and the scripture I quoted actually states ...there is nothing to fear. I appreciate if you would not put words in my mouth. I have faced death more than once in this life with cancer and other events, and I have no fear of death whatsoever. Please do not state things about me that you have no clue about. I am not going to state things about you, for I do not know you.
  
  Here, I am simply inquiring of others whether or not it appears to them the events that are happening this day seem to be happening closer together in proximity than they have in the past. That's it, nothing more. I ask that the forum stay with the question asked, which I sincerely believed was asked in a manner simple enough as to what I am inquiring of in a response. Thank you so much.
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  Phil Perezposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  How can you just believe a quote without questioning it first?
  There must be some doubt in your mind...
  
  I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, Faith. All I'm saying is IN GENERAL, to be fearful is to not know. They go hand in hand. I'm not personally speaking about you or your life experiences. I would appreciate if you not make assumptions about what I'm saying.
  
  Your Forum post is just asking what do the volcano eruptions and earthquakes mean in the context of God. I'm just refusing to believe that. God does not logically justify environmental problems in the world.
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  Phil Perezposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I forgot the sarcastic "thank you."
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  Phil Perezposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry, Faith. I hardly get this emotional on a post. I don't mean to "bitch" at you. I apologize for my behavior.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Apology accepted. I hold no ill will against you or anyone. I sincerely thank you for that ...it is not in my nature to say thank you in a sarcastic manner, as that is not how I was brought up. I believe I have said thank you to every comment ever made on my hubs, as I am grateful I receive so many and appreciate those who read and take time to leave a comment. I hope you have a peaceful night.
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  Phil Perezposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your sincerity I appreciate it very much!
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome.
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  About 76,000 mount Toba erupted and almost wiped out the human population. That is called the Toba Catastrophe Theory. The human race did "rebound" but, by breeding within small isolated groups. That means reproduction was by incest. Over generation mental illness resulted and that explains the human condition: fear, paranoia, birth defects, etc.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  That doesn't make sense. We've had 70,000 years of natural selection to breed out a lot of defects from the interbreeding.
  
  Also, fear and paranoia are instincts, not birth defects.
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think natural selection necessarily breeds anything out. See a geneticist on this point. Mental illness (fear and paranoia) is inherited so I refer to them as birth defects. Again see a geneticist or M.D.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Everyone has fear. It's in your reptilian part of the brain. Everything with that part of the brain experiences it.
  
  Fear is not a birth defect. Unless all mammals, reptiles and birds have the same birth defect.
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you are right. I am referring to an unnatural fear, a neurotic fear, something beyond the ordinary.
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  Popitposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  So according to this argument, all birth defects can be traced back to Adam and Eve, you can't get a smaller gene pool than procreating with your own rib!
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Good point. The story of Adam and Eve comes from earlier stories from Babylon. I postulate a series of catastrophes which reduced the human population. Depending on the extent of the catastrophes, surviving tribes may have had to reproduce by incest. The Zuni American Indian Tribe have a legend about incest and a flood. So, a series of incestuous generations occurred after catastrophes such as Mount Toba eruption, Yellowstone....
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I do know of the eruption in the past. This was in today's news about the giant super volcano just discovered at Yellowstone. I am just curious as to whether others believers think of wheter these are more frequent than in the past is all. They have always happened but it seems just from watching what is going on in the news, there are more happening all around the world more frequently than in the past. Thanks for participating.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Well, either that or the news from all over the world is now reported worldwide. What used to be known to the inhabitants of a small village is now spread over the entire world.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Glad to know you believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God. If that is not the case, then you should not post here. Thank you so much. I am just curious as to what I read just today in the news of all of the happenings and wanted to know if others think they are happening more frequently is all.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  As has been pointed out, it is an open forum, not limited to believers.
  
  And you got your answer; nothing has changed in the frequency of natural disasters. Although I suppose you COULD say that comets, asteroids and such have decreased as there are fewer left flying around up there.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that is how I posed the forum to those who believe, so I will just ask a question then. Thanks.
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Reaper, you did well to handle the rudeness. Your question was well put and in a proper forum, and I had no problem understanding it. Some folks, not necessarily those responding here, are just looking for a moment of relevance.
  
  It does seem we see and hear more about natural disasters nowadays. So it could be a prelude or just the technology that gives us info more readily. But be assured, what we are seeing today will happen but probably at a greater level of intensity, only we won't be here.
  
  And keep in mind that many of the non-believers are here just to argue and "barb" but their are many, including some of the snipers that are here because they are searching for what they do not have, which is evident in their questions. So keep that sweet spirit. They need to see all sides of Christianity (not religion). All most of these know is what the have (negatively) experienced in "religion" or have been taught by other non-believers.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Hello mishpat,
  
  So nice to meet you and thank you for your kindness in addressing my question. Yes, technology certainly has brought everything before our eyes in an instance no doubt about it. We won't be here that is for sure, and I praise Him for that and place my full trust and faith in Him ...we are to be prepared and to keep watch is all. There is nothing to fear for we know what God's Word tells us is to come. I do hope the fruit of the Spirit is evident in me. "They shall be known by their fruit." Again, thank you for your kindness and gentleness in your commenting. God bless you.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Faith, essentially you are surmising and speculating. Some refuse to surmise/speculate about that which there is no way to tell one way or the other. You should also realize that forums are open to all and there is nothing you can do about it. Be thankful...
  I say.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Kathryn. Yes, I posted a question now, so it's good and I am thankful.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I have learned a lot from the atheists even though they infuriate me.
  I believe I am allowed to believe what I believe. Nothing can shake those who know they know they know…
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  They don't infuriate me, for we all have a choice to believe what we believe, and I believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God, and just simply wanted to know what others think about what is going on in this day in the context of this scripture. But if those answering do not believe the scripture, then my question is moot to them, I would think, because it is a big part of my question. No one or no thing can shake my Faith. It seems to me that all of these events are happening more frequently or are happening closer together than before. Yes, there have always been earthquakes, but I am wondering if these occurrences have ever been so close together in time. It seems to be an easy enough question, but maybe not due to the inclusion of the scripture. Thanks again, and God bless.
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  Phil Perezposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  You sound like you'd be an excellent Jehovah Witness.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Phil, no I am not a Jehovah Witness, but simply a Christian.
  
  I am simply inquiring of others whether they think these events are happening closer together in proximity than in the past. That is it, nothing more.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  +1
  Glad to see you posting about the matters that matter to you Faith. I believe as you, that the Messiah will be returning soon.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Are you waiting for that, Beth? Or is that a bad thing, in your opinion?
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I am saddened to see how critical you have become.
  Faith compared world events to biblical scripture and you told her she was wrong.
  You said you wanted stats and they were provided so you took a different tack and criticized the believer himself.
  
  For those who believe in Jesus' return, yes... YES, we are indeed looking forward to that. It is the fulfillment of our faith. Of course we look forward to his return.
  
  The world, though full of good things, is also full of great sadness. Race issues, murder, rape, kidnapping, people buried alive beneath the rubble in Nepal right now... this world is not our final destination and Believers hold on to that hope with all that we are. We WANT to be in a better place with our friends and family that have gone on before. We want to see an end to suffering. We want to be held in the arms of our Maker and know the secrets of the universe. If you do not know that his return is the moment of joy that many of us have waited a lifetime for, then let me assure you of it now. That is the moment we are waiting for.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  And of course you know what Jesus return means for the majority of people, according to Revelation. How can the suffering of probably billions bring any joy for anyone? I just don't get you guys. When I was sick and thought it was the second coming, I was horrified, and not for myself.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I have no control over the fate of the world. If there is anything I can do... like share the gospel, I am, as you know, more than willing. If I were to share the gospel now, what would you say? What would many say? They would tell me to keep my fear mongering to myself. You can't have it both ways Jane. Choose.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Way to avoid the question.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  How did you want me to answer the question? I did it accurately from my end. Please tell me what words to type in order to satisfy you.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I want to know how you can find joy in the Second Coming, when billions of people are going to suffer and go to Hell for eternity. According to revelation.
  
  Or have you simply not considered that? What if it's your loved ones who might suffer?
  
  Believe me, I've thought of these things, because I actually thought it was happening.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I have known the facts from the time I was young.
  Heaven.
  Hell.
  If I believed that Jesus was the son of God, if I chose to follow him, He would save me from an eternity without him.
  I knew that every human was faced with the same decision.
  The apostle Paul said he loved his fellow countrymen so much that he would give up his own salvation if it meant they might have his place.
  The end is already known by God. All those who will accept Him, all those who will deny Him... it is already known.
  Does this make sense to you? The end of the book is filled in. Whether it happens today, in 20 years from now, or 200 years from now... the last page is written.
  So you ask if I mourn those who have/will deny Him?
  YES!!!! Why do you think that I and other believers share the truth we know? Because we DO care.
  But my fate is sealed and it is that gift I long for and that I await.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Why share the truth if you think nothing can be changed?
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  SirDentposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  There's the rub. You can be changed. It is your choice to want to change though you cannot change yourself. It takes the spirit of the Living God to change you.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe Hell is only the torment of not being able to forgive yourself. That's the only reasonable hell I can think of for a moral GOd.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I heard a perspective that really spoke to me.
  It was something about how the greatest sin would be to not believe that God loves us.
  I have been thinking a lot lately about how ppl all have the same desire... to be loved.
  Here we are offered the greatest love of all, from the One who made us... knows all our strengths and all our flaws and still desired our companionship to the point that He would have to sacrifice everything for us... and then we just believe the lie that we aren't worth being loved. What a waste.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  What do you think of my version of Hell, though? I can't see a loving God putting people through an eternity of torture just because we don't love him or believe in him.
  
  How can we accept forgiveness if we can't forgive ourselves for our crimes? Maybe once we can do that, we get to be with God again.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  First, let me say, I respect what you're doing.
  You're participating in conversation... no games. Thank you for that.
  
  I can only tell you my understanding from reading the Bible.
  The bible says God created hell for Satan and his demons.
  It is their punishment.
  The bible says you cannot have two masters.
  I think that's why the bible says the whole mystery is so simple a child can understand.
  Choose the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob as your god... receive eternal life... Heaven.
  Deny Him... follow Satan into the pit.
  
  Your perspective is that God would sentence ppl to hell.
  My perspective is that Jesus came to save ppl from that destiny.
  
  I totally get what you're saying about forgiveness... what a good point.
  We must learn to forgive ourselves. It is something I struggle with myself.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  "The bible says God created hell for Satan and his demons.
  It is their punishment."
  
  How could a loving God do that?
  
  Even Satan and the angles are His children.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Jane... they are not His children... they made themselves enemies of God.
  
  Child porn... sex trafficing... cannibalism... the darkest of darkness... this is Satan, and God has seen what he has done... what he is still doing. God has fully rejected Satan.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  You're not getting it. I'm saying no MORAL person(or God) would torture and punish someone FOREVER.
  
  How is that in any way, shape or form MORAL?
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  God is a *just god, Jane.
  
  If He is just, then His ways *are moral, whether you agree with them or not.
  It is important to realize God does not need to conform to us... His creation, it is important that we seek to understand Him... the superior being.
  
  I do have to go do bed now, I'm sorry. Night.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Good night.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  What moral person (or God) would punish YOU for the sins of Adam? Or a child for the sins of the father?
  
  Answer: none, by today's standards. Everyone, by the standards of the barbarians that wrote the stories included in the bible.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I am baffled as to how people can love and worship that type of monster.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I would not be punished for his sin though I can only think of one of Adam's sins. I do however, know a slew of my own sins... it is for those that I would be punished IF...
  
  IF God had not sent His son to take the punishment for my sin.
  IF I rejected that free gift.
  IF I chose darkness over light and turned my back on God.
  
  We are all born with a sinful nature, but we are only required to answer for our own sin... unless we accept forgiveness and receive absolution. It is so simple a child can understand.
  
  Reject the gift, accept the natural consequences.
  Accept the gift, be forgiven.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  But you ARE punished for Adam's sin, at least according to the bible. It's pretty plain that all of Adam's descendants (including you) are being punished. And while you may or may not be punished for your father's sins, it was a pretty common occurrence in scripture and could go on for several generations.
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  SirDentposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  The coming of the Lord is nothing new. It was written that it is going to happen around 2000 years ago. The world has had time to get ready but it has not. The signs of the time show that He is coming soon but most still turn a blind eye to it. What more can anyone do? The warning has been given, the time for salvation is now, and it is an individual choice for everyone to make.
  
  The Holy Bible states, "Let the righteous be righteous still, let the wicked, be wicked still." I cannot carry anyone to Heaven with me.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  So you don't believe our fates are sealed, like Beth does?
  
  Which one of you is correct?
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  SirDentposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Beth and I are saying the same thing. You are reading them differently. The saved will be forever with Jesus Christ, the lost will be in hell. It is that simple.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I guess I am just not getting it. She says our fate is sealed and God already knows what's going to happen.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Please understand... our endings are/have been affected.
  
  Those who find salvation, may have done so b/c they heard the gospel from someone who was willing to share.
  
  Imagine Jane, that your name is, right now, written in the book of life.
  You could say, "Not possible, I do not believe."
  But who knows what might happen between right now and the time of your death.
  God could speak to your heart in a dream tonight.
  You could see a miraculous prayer answered and believe.
  
  The Lord tell us in His word to share the good news for a reason. I cannot save anyone, but I am called to scatter the seed and only He can make it grow.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I will never deny there might be some truth to it. I've been through too much.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Don't ever stop seeking Jane.
  I believe I've always said that to you.
  Those who seek will find. <3
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  A most horrible outlook on life, from my perspective.
  
  Nothing you can do, nothing you can think, can ever change anything, for it is "written in the book", so to speak, and is unchangeable. If God, for instance, has you down as destined for hell, it is to hell you go, for nothing you can do will ever change that. You do not, therefore, have any free will at all for God has already decided your entire future.
  
  Although we cannot know if it is true or not, I choose to believe in free will - that I can change my own future (and to a lesser extent that of others as well). Otherwise the attitude will surely become "Oh well, what does it matter? Do whatever you wish, for nothing will change as a result."
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  "Although we cannot know if it is true or not, I choose to believe in free will - that I can change my own future (and to a lesser extent that of others as well). Otherwise the attitude will surely become "Oh well, what does it matter? "
  
  I agree. I have to believe I have free will, even if the Universe sometimes appears to be deterministic.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  It is the timeline you don't understand.
  
  A man sets out on a journey canoeing down a river. He has days and nights ahead of him. He doesn't know what the journey holds.
  
  A pilot flies his plane over the same river. From beginning to end, in minutes. There is white water, then a sudden drop. He sees the whole journey. The end is known.
  
  What we are dealing with is perspective. Your vision is limited, so your understanding is limited.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  "We just don't understand" has to be the biggest cop out in the world. Either the future is predetermined (or known) by God or it isn't. If it is then it cannot be changed or God would have known of the change and included it in His "book".
  
  That's pretty simple, and saying that it cannot be understood just isn't true. It's just another way to justify something that cannot be justified.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you missed the whole river example.
  If you get it... then you do.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah. The pilot (god) knows the outcome, the boater (me) does not. Doesn't change the fact that it is already known, though, which makes the final sentence rather meaningless.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Let's make you God and see if it helps.
  
  Your baby is born.
  You hold him in your arms.
  You know he will one day die.
  He... knows basically nothing.
  
  Does that negate his life?
  Should you kill the child b/c the rest is semantics and he will die eventually anyway?
  Save on college tuition, that's for sure.
  
  Or is it that you just have authority issues?
  Do you not like someone else having all the power?
  If the teacher has the teaching key, do you skip the test?
  
  I don't think your issues are what you think they are.
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Twice in a week we agree. Now I'm really confused... but not about God.
  
  Free will is freewill. We have choices, until the end of our lives. Believe or not believe. There is, of course, that group that are ardent "election" folks. But even that "view" requires a choice to believe or not believe.
  
  Now you also mentioned, further down, the "cop out" that we do not know everything. Well, we don't. I read your comments about science and related issues. Sometimes I have no idea what you are talking about. Sometimes, if I may, I don't think you know exactly either. But you base your belief on what you know, what you have accumulated and what you have experienced. Then you make a choice. But I seriously doubt you know or understand the whole picture. So it is with faith in God.
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said, "You judge by the standards of men. I judge not." Here Jesus is telling us Jesus (and God) does not judge. God does not condemn, we condemn ourselves. God merely reflects our own projections back towards us. This would be hell until we learn to forgive ourselves and others. See Hub, "GOD DOES NOT CONDEMN, we judge ourselves in a mirror held by God."
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  This is what I personally experienced. It's hard not to believe it.
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  Phil Perezposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  "I have known the fact"
  That made my night.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I changed it to read ...these appear to be occurring more frequently ...
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible is Not the infallible word of God. It is a collection of either 73 or 66 individual books (Catholic 73 vs. Protestant 66). The Old Testament (OT) is a political statement by Rabbis defending their right to kill for land, but be protected by an unseen God. The God of Israel is jealous, vengeful and wrathful; not at all like the God depicted by Jesus in the NT. Follow Jesus, not the OT.
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  Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  So, the 'god' of the Christian Testament is not the God of the Hebrew Bible? Thanks for clarifying that.
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, unless you believe in a schizophrenic god.
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  Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Who, exactly, was the God Jesus prayed to? Or, was he just talking to himself?
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Postulation: Jesus is like us, a form of energy. This energy body attaches itself to the material body for its chosen purpose and then the material body dies and the energy body (soul/spirit) detaches. Jesus prayed to his higher self. Is there a "God" greater than us? Yes, I believe so, but we are at all times connected to it. Jesus said, "Ye are Gods," (like himself). We are all connected in some energy field. See Hub, "My telepathic Experiences."
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  jacharlessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Er, if a god is schizophrenic can it still be a god? hehe.
  Second, if one reads all the text, as tedious as it is -I know, you see a pattern of expression that begins soft, gets angry, then calms down and is soft again. Interestingly, this anger was directed at just one specific group of people, who -I might add, were noted repeatedly as being the most stubborn, stiff necked, irritating, grumbling, argumentative, violent and whiny group of humans ever to exist. They essentially summed up practical every facet of the human condition. And in their defense, bore the burden of a set of rules no one could ever keep, as they were purposefully designed so...
  
  Cheers.
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  My God/Ideal is Not schizophrenic, subject to violent outbursts. That is why I believe the god of the OT is not God at all. Nor do I believe the "Jews" are a separate race of people. Abraham married a Canaanite as did many others. The "Jews" are interbred. Let us call Hebrews ones who follow the teachings of the Rabbis. The Rabbis teach God made a covenant with Joshua (et al) to enter the land of Canaan and kill every man, woman and child. This is false on the face of it. My God/Ideal does not choose one group of people to kill another. If anyone out there wants to contend that God ordered the death of women and children in the Book of Joshua, I want to hear from them.
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I have to take the blame here. I asked for something "original" and boy, oh, boy did we get it?
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  Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Actually this is not, "original" at all. Just read the Bible with common sense. If it is wrong to hurt people, then our God should not hurt people. Google, "atrocities in the Bible."
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Your confusion is in terminology. Atrocity, by your definition vs. necessity. This is a loving God who cares for all. When the choice is made to go against Him, then who is to blame for the aftermath of His judgement.
  
  God rules His world by His rules not ours. If He used our rules, I would speculate that none of us would be around tomorrow.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  You've hit the nail on the head, for God rules by the rules written by a barbaric culture thousands of years ago. Not by any civilized rules that might be chosen today to represent a god. The morals and thinking of scripture, while quite normal and accepted then, simply is not recognized today as being moral at all.
  
  (Although I don't think the extreme Islamist would agree with me as they find such "atrocities" quite moral)
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  i think here we are bouncing in and out of agreement.
  
  Agreed that by today's morals and thinking, certain of God's actions are considered barbaric.
  
  Disagree that God is barbaric.
  
  Interesting that you commented some extremists as that is the whole crux of the matter. Consider what makes up our news (not necessarily what we see or hear). Women and children are used as mules for explosive devices. Consider the mind set that has already taken over these folks, specifically the children of single digit age. They have been taught hate and then learned a certain "truth" by living in a war zone. The result is worse than any mafia styled "vendetta" attitude. Note the present leaders of those paving the way for the atrocities were, 15 years ago, the children that witnessed what to them were atrocities and are now in a position to repay. Exodus 34:67
  
  But lets not limit ourselves to the Arabic nations.Consider the game of thrones, as it were, of past ages in Europe. Aspirants to the throne "took care of their rivals." Egyptian Africa and the Zulu nation. The barrios, the drug culture and it goes on.
  
  It does no good to cut off the head of a weed or a cancer. One must destroy the root.
  
  Yup, pretty harsh, but that's because we, the nations, have allowed it by moving away from God.
  
  Opinion - He will have His way in a way that is most beneficial those that are His. The consequences may not be palatable to all, but it seems those most against His ways are those most against Him and least likely to accept their punishment as just. Deuteronomy 24:16.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  It's a little hard to understand how one's actions can be barbaric, but not the entity performing those actions. Temporary insanity, maybe? I don't get that at all, except that we don't want a barbaric god so proclaim that it is not barbaric regardless of it's actions.
  
  But...if the shoe fits, wear it. If God's actions are barbaric it is because that god is barbaric.
  
  I picked on the Islamic terrorists because they are probably the most barbaric group alive today. They have failed totally to civilize themselves. That doesn't mean others in the past have - history is replete with barbaric actions.
  
  It's fine that you have such an opinion, but do realize it is based solely on the concept that your god wants the best for us. Although the priests say so, that is the sole evidence and that's rather slim considering that if they said otherwise they'd lose all their followers.
  
  And no, God's biblical "punishment" is very seldom "just". In today's world, that is - to the barbarians that created that god the punishments were quite just.
  
  Death for premarital sex (female only), for instance. Death for looking at a city being ravaged. Death for politician's actions. Death for not being nice to strangers. Death by genocide. Death for being alive, should Isrealites want your land.
  
  Not even believers find these things anything but barbaric...except when their god does it. Then it is not barbaric by definition. A definition few will swallow, unless it is their god as well.
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  >>>If God's actions are barbaric it is because that god is barbaric.<<<
  
  I did not say God's actions were barbaric. On the contrary, and in tune with believing, I believe He acted in the best interests of mankind, and not just those that executed His judgements. I indicated they were according to today's thinking. Down the page you sited many "Death for..." items. We are not free to say I believe in God, sometimes. Make the choice. If you don't believe, you are free to express your indignation. But if you believe, then you take the whole package.
  
  >>> ... Islamic terrorists ... <<< express what is in the heart of man, not just mohammedism, which is why these type of actions while surface in every culture.
  
  >>> It's fine that you have such an opinion, but do realize it is based solely on the concept that your god wants the best for us.<<< True.
  
  >>> Although the priests say so, <<< Priests, ayatollahs, jimmie jones, westboro, etc. should never dictate thought or action. As much as they would say they are of God, the individual has a responsible to know what and why they believe. As you study and reason out what you believe, it is important, and considering the consequences, even more important that believers know what, who and why they believe, from direct study and reason. Another person's opinion should never be the >>> the sole evidence <<< for any belief system.
  
  >>> And no, God's biblical "punishment" is very seldom "just". In today's world, that is - to the barbarians that created that god the punishments were quite just.<<< He is the creator not the created.
  
  >>> Not even believers find these things anything but barbaric...except when their god does it. Then it is not barbaric by definition. A definition few will swallow, unless it is their god as well.<<< This is, of course, your opinion, right?
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said, "I did not come to condemn the world, but to save it." He also said, "You judge by the standards of men, I judge not." What do you not understand? God/Jesus does not judge or condemn at all. All condemnation comes from us and God is not a part of it. Meditate on this. Try to raise your ideals.
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the help, but it appears your studies are a bit one sided and shallow though. Stick with it and you may get it someday!
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  Jay C OBrienposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said, "You judge by the standards of men, I judge no one." and "I came into the world not to condemn it, but to save it." Forgive to be forgiven; do not judge. This means what it says, Jesus/God does not judge or condemn. All judgment/condemnation is from a person, God has nothing to do with it. Condemnation is a projection from you.
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Ho hum, I see we are back to the boring, tedious and unoriginal again.
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Boring, tedious and unoriginal.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago
If anything, the earth is reflecting on the fact that the people of India are loosing their deep rooted spirituality and tradition of Yoga or Scientific Union with God. They are apparently becoming more materialistic and less concerned with things not of this world.

I believe the earth reflects the consciousness of the population stomping around on it. That LA has not had its earthquake means something is going right here! (Knocking on wood.)

Now, the both atheists and the believers want to throw me out of this thread. But, of course, there is no way.

Thanks for the freedom of speech.
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  BuddiNsenseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  The northwestern Harappa to Mohan jedaro suffered earth quake in 3102 BC. J P Mittal
  Then in 883 AD an eartquake bloked river Jhelum
  Kashmir 1123 AD, 1501 AD, 1555 AD
  Looks like Indians were never spiritual.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  
  Thanks for this info!
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  BuddiNsenseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  When Nepal was groaning in earthquake, Christian Missionaries were shamelessly selling Jesus
  
  Looks like "spirituality" is just another name for and licence to say BS.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  No.
  Spirituality, good.
  Shamelessly selling, Bad.
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  BuddiNsenseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Spirituality is the synonym of BS.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I beg to differ.
  Some spirtuality is BS, some is Reality for sure.
  Jesus's teachings are not BS.
  Interpretations of his teachings can be.
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  BuddiNsenseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Spirituality is just another name given to creating an illusion with the help of repeated chanting and in case of at least some Indians by using "Bhang", a hallucinogen.
  
  What are Jesus teachings any way? "Do unto others" was taught before by Hillel and before by Socrates and many others. Inventing the concept of Hell is the worst any man can do and that is what Jesus preached.
  And teachings of Krishna are not good either for in Gita he preaches to keep the "varnasrama dharma", the caste system which is the curse of Indian society.
  And the society he helped create, the Pandava rule, probably was very bad that it collapsed in two generations.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I did say… "if anything"… I did indicate I was merely surmising.
  If not… thats what I was doing. surmising... and rambling on..sharing MY beliefs
  well yeah, BS ing.
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Caleb DRCposted 10 years ago
Hello Faith Reaper,

It has been a long time since you and I corresponded.

Yes I absolutely believe in God's inerrant Word as it was originally written by those inspired by the Holy Spirit. The prophesies in Scripture are continuously coming true. The fact that God so accurately predicts the future is one of the reasons I so thoroughly believe in His Word.

About 30 natural disasters were reported in 1950, and in 2000 there were 450 reported. I calculated this rate of increase to be about 5.4%. This, however, is not accurate because this rate predicts there should have been 862 reports in the year 2012, but there was 905 reported; therefore, the rate of increase is increasing. Nearly everything predicted in Scripture, and by Jesus Christ, has either come true or is coming true. Eventually, everything Jesus Christ predicted will be coming true.
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  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're confusing the number reported with the number happening. The two may (or may not) be the same today: they were NOT the same in 1950.
  
  You might also take a look at the number of disasters (not lives lost, disasters) throughout history. You will find that they come and go; there is no set number per year.
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  You know its always scarey (can I use that word, is it too close to fear), anyway, its always scarey when we agree on something.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, Wildnerness, for your participation here.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Caleb,
  
  So great to see you here and know you are still here on HP. Yes, it has been awhile, and I must make amends about such. Thank you for sharing your insight here, and I was blessed that Cam shared tons of data on earthquakes on this question I posed too, so I am grateful to know. I do believe prophecy is being fulfilled and, of course, will be fulfilled no matter what in His perfect timing. I am heading over to your side of HP town.
  
  God bless you, Caleb. In His Love, Faith Reaper
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janesixposted 10 years ago
It's sad that you guys WANT to see the end of the world.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Hi janesix, no, your perception is incorrect, as I do not "WANT" as you say to see the end of the world, and I cannot speak for anyone else but myself. Please do not put words in my mouth. Thank you so much.
  
  All I am simply wanting to inquire of here is whether it appears to others that these events are increasing is all. However, again, I appreciate your participation, and understand you do not think these events are happening more frequently. That is all I would like to know from others' perception as relates to what is happening in the world each day.
  
  I have an answer from a hubber, Cam, in a question, who provided a lot of data concerning earthquakes after he did a good bit of research to address my inquiry, as to whether they are actually occurring more or not today than in the past, not necessarily in numbers, but in close proximity to each other, as in birth pangs.
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jacharlessposted 10 years ago
There is little doubt this planet is undergoing a massive change, which I personally feel is the direct result of humanity. Famine, Pestilences, Floods, Fires, Volcanic eruptions, Tsunamis, Droughts, Earthquakes, etc are all natural events, true, but there is much evidence to suggest humans are the reason these events are speeding up. I spy Oklahoma as a prime example. Second are the radical changes in weather patterns across the world, etc as humans continue to breach the atmosphere into space, drill deep into the planet for whatever, barrage the oceans with rubbish and continue the real estate concept of Cain by building on every available piece of land...

As for wars, and even rumors of wars, again we see human action. Lastly, regarding the biblical quotes. I ask you to read them more efficiently. Both passages are quite specific in their mention of synagogues. "flogged in the synagogues", "handed over to the synagogues".

An interesting perspective of the quotes is this: in the AD span, as Christianity blossomed, many synagogues became Christian meeting places, as Jews converted in very large numbers and Gentiles converted their primitive temples, etc as well. By suggesting arrest, flogging, etc by these new synagogues, is the writer implying and internal conflict; an internal persecution?

Cheers
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Cheers, jacharless, thank you so much for your participation here and sharing your interesting insight. You have gone way deeper here than my inquiry, and I do appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. Yes, we certainly have done a number on this planet. There is no doubt about that fact.
  
  I just wanted to simply inquiry as to whether it appears to anyone else that these events are happening closer in proximity than in the past, not necessarily the number but are they getting closer together as in birth pangs. Thank you again.
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  jacharlessposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Theresa,
  Glad to participate
  
  As I know it, throughout history there have been "waves" of catastrophes. Granted, in the last century -even half-century; heck in the last decade said events do appear to be increasing in both number and intensity. In the last ten years a dozen major volcanic eruptions from Iceland to Japan, especially the Caulle eruption; to this add Tsunamis and Typhoons, Hurricanes and major precipitation in the form of rain, ice and snow --and of course, earthquakes: Sumatra in `04, Haiti in `11, Sichuan in `12, Japan just last year and most recently Kathmandu. These, obviously are on a larger scale and do not include the smaller ones. On some level all of them are seemingly becoming more frequent which could just be a geological effect -or not. But, suffice to say, it's been a busy decade for mama nature.
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  Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, jacharless,
  
  Thank you so much for further information here. There was an avalanche yesterday or this morning on Mt. Everest. I just had an email pop in from one of our own here on HubPages, Vinaya Ghimire, who is from Nepal and has even written hubs about Nepal. Here is what he stated in part, being we are discussing earthquakes and such, and in particular the one that just happened in Nepal.
  
  "After a powerful earthquake of 7.9 magnitude on April 25, 6.9 on April 26 and 5.7 on April 27, Nepal has been completely devastated.
  
  Today is day four. We experienced earthquake for three consecutive days. I am trying to move my family from Kathmandu to my farm which is relatively safe but airports and roads both have been damaged."
  
  Thank you again.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  That is heartbreaking. They are in need of a miracle. I am praying for that.
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BuddiNsenseposted 10 years ago
Copied satire from http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/o-t- … /56682168/
Kathmandu, April 28: Slamming the contemptible act of the Church Missionaries to send 100,000 paperback editions of Gideon Bibles to mourning Nepal, the government of Nepal has told the missionaries that next time perhaps they “give their thick heads a shake” and send emergency supplies, not stacks of New Testaments.

“Well, isn’t that just a plane-load full of stupid?” said a shocked and annoyed Nepal Prime Minister Sushil Koirala when told by CNN that the plane taxiing in to Tribhuvan International Airport was full of Gideon Bibles.
More than 100,000 paperback-edition Gideon Bibles have arrived in Nepal to provide relief for the millions of Nepalese desperate for help following the devastating 7.8 magnitude earthquake that has struck the country.

But the jet loaded with skids of boxed Bibles was called misguided and “dumber-than-dumb-ass” by rescue groups and world governments alike.

The Nepal PM asked, “Do they think Nepal is a Motel?”

“We cannot eat Bibles. We cannot use them as shovels.”

“Nepal desperately needs food and medicine and equipment and workers…not best-seller books.”

http://www.opindia.com/2015/04/when-nep … ing-jesus/
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  Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  That is from an article originally posted on a satirical joke site and has since been removed:
  http://www.newsbharati.com/info.htm#.VT-6O6at2pT
  http://thelapine.ca/emergency-gideon-bi … d-to-nepal
  
  In other words, the story is not legit; it never happened.
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  BuddiNsenseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I know, but the link I gave was to another site where the comments (are all real) are similar to the comment Kathryn L Hill made http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/130207? … ost2728956 . I only want to stress the point that it is not bible or god that people in distress wants. Comments like people brought it on themselves by being less spiritual is unwarranted if not offensive.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago
PS… what is being born again?
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  BuddiNsenseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Born again, dwija is what bring free food to brahmins for all their life, and is a simple ritual that brings one time food and life time client to a christian priest.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years ago
Also, it is sad that so many… 5000 people have died in this earthquake. To joke about it or even use it to declare that which we can only guess about seems shallow. I have deep reverence for the people of India, their culture and their religious/spiritual traditions. I am sorry if I seemed arrogant up there.
I believe the teachings of Krishna also reveals Reality in the Bhagavad Gita.
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  Popitposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I'm with you Kathryn, the Nepal disaster is no joke and not an out reach opportunity for any kind of fundamentalist group. The country is totally devastated and relief work is difficult because of the terrain. It's up to the rest of the world to practice the compassion and selflessness of their chosen spirituality, with practical help and no faith strings attached. Faith systems who do not discriminate or proselytize but act out their faith in practical aid are surely more likely to reach more peoples hearts? Not to mention the admiration of humanity in general.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  +1!
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mishpatposted 10 years ago
Hypocrisy at its highest level...

When nothing can be presented truthfully, lie.

So did satan in the Garden. So do his minions today.
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  Popitposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Huh?
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  We have those on HP that properly give opinions, theories, facts, scientific facts and other positions. With each it is interesting to look at their profile, if any, (right, I don't have one) to better understand their reasoning. Knowing this, it helps to converse in a social manner. Sometimes there are heated debates but most times there is an exchange of honest interests and information.
  
  Then there are those that just "lie" to cause issues and argument. They eat up page space and add nothing of value. But is satisfies their shortcomings to cause consternation. And to respond is usually an exercise in futility, a waste of time, that just gives them relevance. One picks his friends and friendly adversaries here on HP based on valuable input and discussion.
  
  I enjoy healthy debate, puns, humor and the like interspersed to keep things from getting dry. Some folks to not rate anything but an indirect general comment in the vein of "if the shoe fits, wear it." They are, of course, free to respond, but usually don't. I fee free to do the same.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  "puns"?
  Really? <disappointed sigh>
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  And what's wrong with being "punny"? It's not possible to take half the folks here seriously, and they need a little humor in their black and dreary lives.
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  Popitposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Gosh, that's a bit mean isn't it? My black and dreary life is offended. (Not)
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Well then change the frown to a smile. You seem to be part of the "other half."
  
  Ever read some of these folks bio's? It doesn't appear they are anything but black and dreary.
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  Popitposted 10 years agoin reply to this
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Good job, Popit!
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  BuddiNsenseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  "just another believer in Jesus Christ. But He talked to anybody, anywhere, anytime. At times He called the unbelievers "snakes"."
  This do appear black and dreary
  or do you mean this
  "I am the light bearer, the follower of the true god. I bring truth and truth is the least wanted
  Light is black and dreary!
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  puns=lowest form of humor ("humour", if you're British... or Canadian, the Queen's other pet.)
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  mishpatposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  There rang out a chorus of folk
  Who railed at another’s fine joke
  With glee they asserted
  Cajoled, poked and blurted
  That humor should never provoke.
  
  Limericks can be "punny" too.
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  Sed-meposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  I enjoy a good limerick.
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  SirDentposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Very punny!!!
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  bBereanposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Not all in attendance agreed,
  For provocative humor we need.
  A voice from the crowd
  Shouted out loud
  With good humor your case you should plead!
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  BuddiNsenseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Truth is nastier, here the quotes of some "sincere" christians. Sending a few bibles would be OK as people turn to god during crisis and Christians get some consolation reading the bible.
  
  Actually it is not surprising considering that Christians actually think murder is godly and hence can get a perverse pleasure from others misfortunes and take all those opportunities to sell their religion.
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  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Sick, isn't it?
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  BuddiNsenseposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Yes! But you cannot expect anything different from people who follow a murderous "god". I would call such tyrants satan not god!
  reply report
  60
  janesixposted 10 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly. You have to suspect the morals people who worship a God with His "morals".
  reply report

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