Atheists & Non-believers (of God)??

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   belief713posted 15 years ago

   If you don't believe in God or religion or any of that stuff, I was just wondering, do you believe in spirits? God, bad, evil, etc?

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      No.

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         belief713posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         So you don't believe most people have a desire or want to be good but bad things happen to them (or they allow) to either make them bad or maybe stop caring or wanting to be good?
         
         @ Colebabie - what experience or encounter do you believe you had? Was it a "good" or "bad" ghost?

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I assume this was directed at me? You have lost me here. Not sure what this has to do with good, bad or evil spirits. Unless I misunderstood what you mean by spirit.

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               belief713posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Sorry I lost you - in re-reading it I think I lost myself too. LOL! Not necessarily at you - I'm just wondering what people's views are on spirits (that's why I didn't quote it)? Whether evil, good, bad ... do you believe they exist, have names (different cultrues/religions, etc)? Do non-believers (for lack of a better word) believe in something like Sylvia Brown does where she can "talk to the dead?" Or just spirit in general - what does it mean to you?
               
               @Colebabie - I also believe bad things can happen and cause people to change. You know, they kind of give up hope I guess? I'd be interested in hearing from someone who once did believe or thought there was a God or whatever good they believed in - and find out what caused them to change that belief. Is it because innocent children step on mines, or is it deeper than that?
               
               Two friends of mine have also had some experiences with "ghosts." I kind of believe in them, but kind of don't. I'm not sure how I feel about them ... actually, I guess I do believe in them, I'm just not sure if they're good, bad, or can be both. I've never personally had an encounter with any but so many people claimed to have had some kind of "contact" so there must be some truth to it, right? As far as your islander friend - that's what I'm kind of trying to find out? Do you know what she believes in? Because I know many islanders and some practice voodoo and things like that or believe in good and evil spirits. I've looked it up a little online, I just thought it would be a neat discussion.
               
               @Jewel - I'm not fishing for anything, just kind of trying to do research or get feedback from others to see how they feel or what their views are on the topic. I already have my views but I'm interested in others. I don't have a one track mind in that I'm not open to other views. I'm not big on trying to push or persuade anyone either, so if that's what you're worried about, don't. I'm not trying to say if you believe in spirits, why don't you believe in God or anything like that - although it's a good point. But I'll wait to touch on that now in my hub and maybe spark some comments
               
               @goldentoad - it must not be that worthless if you're commenting in it...  "they are probably bad. I saw a couple of them trying to sneak off with my beer" (I have to admit, that made me laugh - even though I am serious in my original question)
               
               @lisafwg01 - thanks for your feedback. What do you mean by "good" and "evil" are social constructs? Do you mind explaining?

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Well, I can only speak for myself, but I think it is fair to say I do not believe in anything I am unable to reasonably verify for myself. And I know - I only have Neil Armstrong's word for it that the moon is not made of cheese.
                  
                  I do not think anyone can "talk to the dead," or at least - I do not believe that any one can "listen to what the dead are saying."
                  
                  Perhaps if you could explain what you mean by "spirits." Because I am sensitive to certain vibrations, such as may be present in an old church or place of natural convergence of energy. But I would not call these things either "spirits" or "alive" in the sense that we use that word. I am aware of them, but cannot communicate with them.

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                  lisafwg01posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Say we have two hypothetical Countries:
                  
                  In country "A" it is considered "evil" and "bad" to drink milk and it is considered "good" to eat beef.
                  
                  In country "B" it is considered "evil" and "bad" to eat beef and it is considered "good" to drink milk.
                  
                  Each country is steadfast in their beliefs and views the other as "evil" based on their own societal beliefs.
                  
                  Yes, some things have been uiniversally considered evil, like murder, but the fact remains that it is deemed evil because  society, as a collective, has termed it as such.
                  
                  Where and when you live determines what is "good" and "evil" not any unseen force.

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      lisafwg01posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      No, I don't believe in spirits/ghosts...and "good" and "evil" are social constructs.

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      MangoGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I believe in good spirits, wicked spirits and specters, but I don't believe in bad and evil spirits.

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      chauncygardenerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I believe there is a life force.  An energy that we are all part of, but to label it as GOD would be to put primitive constraints upon it.  Far too limiting.  Therefore, Religion  is out of the picture, though religiousness is not.  I did not belive in much until I encountered “evil spirits”  Also benign.  This was verified by me.  Though little testing done on the bad and yucky ones, as they.... well, it does not feel good to encounter one.  Lets put it that way.  As for spirits, my house was haunted by a young boy.  At first I thought is was just a memory of a boy.  But one day this spirit noticed me, noticing it.  After much searching and thinking, if they exist, what then?  This led me to my beliefs of this life-force energy.  But no “God or Devil”
      And to wicked and evil, they do, but I supose that all depends on your definition.

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      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Believe in god and spirits, have come across both.

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   dingdongposted 15 years ago

   Good, bad okay...why spirit?

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   Colebabieposted 15 years ago

   I agree with dingdong. Not necessarily spirits, but I believe that there is both good and bad and evil in the world.

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      thinking out loudposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Where do you judge your baseline from?  Prior learnings? Teachings?  If you had no basis or understanding of either, you couldn't make the determination.  Unless of course others made that judgement for you.  That's why we as a society have laws.  And most laws can be traced back to the Judeo/Christian ethic. And that comes from the belief in a higher being than ourselves, call it whatever you will.

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         Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I don't know what you are trying to say. I do have a basis of understanding of both teachings and learnings. However, I also learn and think for myself. Others did not make the judgement for me. I've never asked any of my family members this question, so I am not taking their answers. Do some laws have a basis in religion? Sure. And that law and it's logic may be right, doesn't mean I should believe in that religion. Not sure why you're relating the possibility of spirits with laws and their origin.
         
         Basically you're trying to tell me that because I don't believe in "spirits" that I don't believe in Judaism or Christianity, and because I don't believe in them I am denying society's laws? Umm good luck with that one.

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         VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         The first set of laws came from Babylon, (now Iraq) and not from Judeo/Christian ethics. Let them come from wherever we think.
         The baseline for atheism or belief will certainly come from our parents, teachers and whoever guided us. My father preached atheism. My mother preached religious belief. When I came out to public, others were seriously engaged in religious and atheist arguments; I, who was brought up with great ambitions, had my own thoughts, and grasped whatever is right for my life, wherever it may come from. Overall, my baseline in this matter is my own conscience and nothing else.

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   belief713posted 15 years ago

   dingdong & Colebabie - that's fine, please expand. What do you feel makes evil or good in the world? Do you believe in a spirit or spirits? Ghosts, etc? Just trying to see others views to help me with a Hub I'm working on.

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   Colebabieposted 15 years ago

   I think that evil and good depends on people. Some bad things happen because of accidents, and some bad things happen because there are bad people. What makes a person bad or evil? A lot of factors that are a combination of nature and nurture. I have had some experiences with what I thought could have been a ghost. Not 100% sure I believe in them, but I suppose it could be a possibility A lot of things happen in my life that are unexplainable to me. Not saying there isn't a reason behind it, just that I don't know the reason.

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   Colebabieposted 15 years ago

   Yes I believe that a person can want to be good and once something bad happens to them they do bad things. Like me and road rage But I don't believe this is an evil spirit possessing them.
   
   When I went to school in the Carolinas I lived in an old house. I lived on the second floor. A couple of nights a week I could hear people talking, glasses clinking together, etc. Like someone was having a party downstairs. Also when I was laying in bed one night I felt like someone was above me, like laying down right above me and watching me. I've felt air in weird places, seen a shadow in the top window from the garden, etc. Not bad experiences at all. My best friend is from the islands and she won't stay in that house without me in the same bed as her.

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   Jewelsposted 15 years ago

   Sounds like a possible fishing for 'if then therefore' responses.  What conclusions are you wanting that will satisfy your hub?
   
   Isn't judgment of a good or bad spirit/entity/soul/whatever the direct result of your own reaction to it?
   
   Is the fishing to do with "If you believe in ghosts and spirits then you must believe in god? 
   
   I feel a circular discussion coming on.  Call me psychic!

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      You are psychic.
      
      Wow - you really are. How did you know I was going to say that?

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         Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         

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         frogdroppingposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I know, I know - I'm a bit late to this but still Mr Knowles *snickers*

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   goldentoadposted 15 years ago

   This is as worthless a forum as any, I just want to say I went to the bar right now and there was a group of fugly chicks there and they were hoggin the jukebox playin' disco, and gwen stefani, they forced me to leave. I bought a couple of forties, I like when the beer settles. They seem to get stronger near the bottom. I also smoked a joint to expedite matters. Well, not a whole joint, just a couple of hits. But I feel pretty good, just can't type as fast.

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      Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      So you're in good spirits?  Are you seeing any ghosts by chance?

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         goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         sure. they are telling me to go outside and dance on the front lawn in my underwear as the sprinklers shower the grass.

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            Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Sounds like a good way to pass time. Just make sure they don't entice you onto the road. Do you get the sense of them being good ghosts or bad ghosts?

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               goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               they are probably bad. I saw a couple of them trying to sneak off with my beer.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  No man - these are the good ghosts. They are trying to save you from yourself.

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                     Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     It's not Bring Your Own in spirit world?

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                     goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh man, they sound like christian extremists, I'm in trouble.

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   belief713posted 15 years ago

   What's the difference between a wicked spirit and a bad or evil one? Aren't they the same? Specters is something I haven't hear of yet...

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      MangoGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      More or less the same, apart from one being existent the other non-existent

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    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years ago

    The first set of laws were formulated by King Hamurabi. The laws are called "Code of Hamurabi". It was the first known written law in history.

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       Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Venugopal Hammurabi was the sixth ruler of the 1st Amorite dynasty of Babylon.  The first book in the Bible, Genesis, in chapter 10 shows the Amorites (Amorrhites) as descended from one of Noah's (Noe) three sons Cham (Ham), yeah Noah of the great flood.  It also shows that Nemrod (Nimrod), descended from Cham (Ham) too and began the kingdom of Babylon.  Nimrod is known as the first human being to call himself a god and has traditionally been considered the creator of the Tower of Babel.  "Nimrod figures in some very early versions of the history of Freemasonry, where he was said to have been one of the fraternity's founders."  The Bible speaks about the Amorrhites and Babylon quite a few times.  The King James Bible has the same verses.
       
       When doing a search I found this quoted from the wikipedia for Hammurabi.  Yikes.
       
       
       Mike

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