Why?

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   ellie1142545posted 15 years ago

   Why, when a Christian asks a forum question, the non-believers take over the thread to the point that the person who opened the thread leaves it?

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      Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I enjoy reading the posts from true believers of any religion, especially those who are trying to start a dialogue rather than convert people with different (or no) beliefs.  Many of the threads started by Christians and other religionists are ridiculous assertions of "the one true faith" superior and unassailable, that I think are responded to appropriately, (with ridicule).
      
      How did you become a Christian?  Was there one spectacular moment in your life.  Is it simply because you were raised as one?  I find discussions of these topics to be very interesting and would like to discuss them with you.

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         ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Wow...Good questions....I became a Christian in 1970.....No I wasn't raised as a Christian....Far from it.....There was a moment in my life, that is not what I would call spectacular, but it is the reason why I became one...I was married in August 1970....Just before my 25th birthday, the guy I married took a walk, with all the money we had, left me alone with one child (from a previous relationship), and pregnant with his....His parents called me one day, and asked if I'd like to go to Church...Why not?  So I went....The Preacher decided to do a Sermon on Salvation, and at the end of the sermon, I knew that that was what I wanted....
         
         I could tell you the rest of the story, about my ex., but it's not a very good one....So I don't talk about him, period.....Thanks for asking....Peace!!

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            Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Your experience sounds similar to others I have heard.  You found yourself in a terrible situation; probably wondering how you got there among other questions.  Comforting answers to your questions, (especially, "what do I want?) were provided and you were drawn to the source that softened your pain.
            
            Is that an accurate summary of your experience?
            
            It's interesting that his parents were so instrumental in this discovery.  Had they invited you to church before your seperation?

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         dennisemattposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         i love reading these. i am fascinated by others beliefs. all threads seem to turn into something else, i personally have been distracted by something and gone off topic. no bad intentions and i say sorry. there are sooooooo many people and views its impossable  to expect no argument in such a historically controversial subject

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            Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, but respectful posts should be given respectful responses.

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               dennisemattposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               absolutley. I am sorry if I seemed disrespectful. It was not my intention. I just meant that non religous forums sometimes turn into a mess as well. AND that people, right or wrong, will often violently defend thier beliefs. I still think its funny how so many people think beleiving in God Lord Jesus Buddha Mother Earth whatever.. is the same thing as religion.

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                  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I was commenting generally, not to any of your posts specifically.  You do show respect for other viewpoints, and gosh darnit people like you

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                     dennisemattposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     awwwwgolleeee i do feel special now   

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         fishmoxposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Missed this one, Ron.
         
         How did anyone claiming to be a Christian become a Christian is a fair question.
         I guess I should add:  Does anyone BECOME a Christian ?  Or can anybody MAKE HIMSELF a Christian ?
         
         The Roman Catholics say that one is a Christian once one is baptized into the church, hence the term "Christening".
         
         So do some Protestant sects like the Episcopalians.
         
         I used to think that I became a Christian when I "accepted" Christ as Savior back in 1973.  Which is how many here think they became Christians, by walking down the aisle, repenting, and saying a silly little prayer called a sinner's prayer.
         
         From then on, EVERYONE who was not in their church, or who did not believe the way they do (and that included me with that attitude) was NOT a Christian, an unbeliever, a sinning sinner hellbound and soon to be devil's fodder.
         
         UNTIL, that is, I found that a Christian is one who belongs to Christ because God elected that person IN CHRIST out of pure mercy unto salvation from a fallen race and that election unto salvation not having anything to do with the person's theology, or lack of it, soteriology or lack of it, doctrines or lack of them, faith or lack of it.
         
         I found that, in accordance with the criteria of the Bible on who is a Christian, there are millions of them walking  around who do not even know they are Christians in the proper sense of the word, and millions of them who are walking around who think they are Christians because they made themselves one.
         
         Most (not all) of the devil's "Christians" think of Christianity as a set of do's and dont's and rituals and rites.
         
         God's Christians are those He chose in Christ from before the foundation of the world and whose names He has in His never to be erased memory which is why He will be able to say in the end,"depart from me, I never KNEW you".
         
         With all due respects to your unbelief.

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            Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            There is a complete abscense of free will in being a Christian?

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               fishmoxposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Free will is a myth advanced by those who would like to have a hand in their salvation instead of allowing God to exercise His Sovereign Right to choose whom He wants saved.
               
               The Bible asks:  Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. (Jeremiah 13:23), and this is even addressed to Israel, who are supposed to be God's national chosen people.
               
               Unregenerate man's free will is just about as free as a rattlesnake attempting to fly.
               
               That is why God Himself, in the Person of His Son Jesus Christ, had to live a sinless and perfect life in order to be the sacrifice for the sins of His people, and only His people, not mankind, sorry to disappoint those in Christendom who thinks Christ is the Savior of all mankind.

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                  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  So an atheist has no choice to become a Christian?

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            Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I didn't realize the devil had his own Christians.  It must be very confusing to be one.  Who does the 10 point vig go to?

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               fishmoxposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               No, the devil does not have his own Christians.  There are two kinds of people in this world. The elect and the unelect.  The elect are God's children by virtue of His choice of them, not theirs of His.  They were born unregenerate, and in due time will be regenerated by the Spirit.
               
               Then there are the devil's own, the unelect. Not Christians, but little, junior satans.  Many are religious, many unbelieving.

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                  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  The devil's own are condemned?  Do they still pay the vig?

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                  ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes...I get what you mean here, when you say many are religious....Like Jim Jones....Remember him?

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I don't understand. The last thread I saw that you started was the bible thread and you asked the question:
      
      
      
      But you ignored any and all responses until you finally said:
      
      
      Which was apparently the answer you were looking for. Ignored were all the statements that you can not possibly know this because you do not speak Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic or Latin; ignored were the references to King James and the instructions etc etc.
      
      Pretty much everything was ignored until you said what you wanted to say.
      
      Why, when a christain asks a forum question, does it seem they already have the answer and will not be satisfied until that is what they get?
      
      Sorry to say, this does not constitute showing "respect for other's beliefs," nor does it endear anyone to your particular cult.
      
      Why not just come out and preach what you want to preach in the first place?
      
      And you are by no means alone - those of us who are here regularly see it a lot.

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         ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         The question was (On my last thread) Do you read the Bible daily, once in a while, or not at all?  That was a simple question, that anyone could have answered, and it would have been accepted....

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Yes - your secondary questions were that. But your first question was as I quoted.
            
            I see you have not responded to what I said other than to say that.
            
            Does anyone really know what the bible is?
            
            Which is the question you answered.
            
            Don't get me wrong - I understand how frustrating it must be for you to have to pretend to respect other people's beliefs, when all you really want to do is remind us that the bible is the one true word of god.
            
            Sorry.

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         ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

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         Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         So when a Christians speaks its called Preaching & Argueing
         When a Non-Christian speaks its called Debate and respect..
         ( double standards , yes indeedy)
         
         Its power-play for some ,cat n mouse game for others, lol something to do while ya supposedly do real work..
         
         Hey Id love to discuss or preach some more , but I gotta  answer my sons email, political science student, hmmm.!...( wish he was in Texas)
         
         p.s After my latest hub though , there are definately crackpots on both sides of the fence...bloody nora!

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I have never said I respect your opinion (or hers). Sorry, I am not such a hypocrite.
            
            Do I respect you right to have it? No question.
            
            Not sure why I should respect the actual opinion though. And not sure why you are stepping in to distract away from the points of the argument either..............
            
            Oh yes. I see now. LOLOLOL

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               Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               What ??
               
               Did anyone ever tell you, you babble sometimes Mark.
               
               Oh so you havent deemed it right for me to speak yet
               
               What are the points oh lofty one, it will only be opinion based of course -yours

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Surely you can work it out. But - if you prefer to detract from the actual discussion - that is your right I suppose. Anything to avoid the points I made I guess.

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                  ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Another moment of absentmindedness, should have looked at it, before I answered Mark....And Mark...That wasn't the answer I was looking for, and I'm not even going to seek the answer anymore.....My final remark on the last thread is what I'm talking about here.....

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      annvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe the person who opened the thread should not let them take it over.  Maybe they should ignore them?

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         ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         After a week of negative remarks?  No, no one should have to take it....I left....

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      Lady_Eposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      From my Observation, it happens when a Christian or a Muslim question is asked in Forums. People do not like Religion thrown in their face or forced upon them. That's all.

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      frogdroppingposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know if the OP of such threads leaves so much as retreats.

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Why, were the atheist or other beliefs not invited?  Seems to me that they leave because the posted with the sole purpose of converting, not learning.

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         ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         It was open to all beliefs....As this is....I just prefer people showing respect to any and all who respond....Or even to the ones who opened the threads....

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      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Walking the spiritual path is difficult.Do remember all the prophets including Jesus were mocked but that didn't stop them from spreading god knowledge.Have courage and patience.

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         ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Thank You...:-)

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   Colebabieposted 15 years ago

   Sometimes, not always, a person will ask a question, not with the intention of getting a straight-forward black and white answer, but with the intention of just getting their point across. Usually they aren't so much questions, as their personal views disguised as a question.
   
   In the case of the religion forum, this is kinda common. It isn't just non-believers, but other believers (not just the original poster) that continue the thread both on and off topic.

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   Beth100posted 15 years ago

   You will find that this happens in non-religious threads too.  I agree with Colebabie that each individual is expressing their opinion, even if it comes across as a question.  The controversies begin when one or more individuals cannot accept that the other individuals are entitled to their own opinion and feel that they must push their viewpoint until the other party(ies) accept it.

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   annvansposted 15 years ago

   I think it is just because everyone wants to be heard.  Not that everyone will agree, but people want to be heard for what they believe in.  I do not think anyone means any harm.  Things like that happen in the forums all the time.

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      ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      True...A little respect, regardless of the beliefs go a long ways though...

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         annvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         True, which is more important...the people or the belief?

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            sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I have been asking this question since I joined hubpages.  Who is more important people or god.
            
            Sadly... well you can figure out the rest.   Sadly, they believe that god is more important than people and they can't figure out the problem.

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               annvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I was meaning that the people are more important than a belief.  Sure God would top of the list, but I mean should we let what someone believes come between us?  I would say no, we as people are more important than what someone believes.  I don't know if I can really say this in the right way.  Ok...I am saying that we shouldn't argue or get upset when we do not agree on the same thing and that I think it is more important for people to get along and get passed their differences than to let their beliefs and thoughts come between them.

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                  ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Ah!!  This is saying it like it is!!  Your beliefs are differant, and the action should be is agree to disagree, and leave it at that....You can still have a friendship....

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            ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Ouch, that can be answered both ways, so....I'll leave it as it should be...Unanswered....

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   blondepoetposted 15 years ago

   I would not do that I respect everyones beliefs.

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   sbeakrposted 15 years ago

   personally, i get sick of being called a 'non-believer' just because i'm 'non-christian.'
   
   to me, that is a double-standard. what i wouldn't call a double-standard is the fact that christians are labeled 'preachy' while non-religious folks are called 'debaters'...i think this discrepancy is perfectly apropos.
   
   i say this due to the fact that i (non-christian) do not start religious threads inquiring 'do you think god is a stupid concept?' to follow up some time later with my own opinion that IT is.  nor do i physically knock on people's doors to ask, 'have you heard the good news? the book of nietzsche tells us god is dead!'
   
   i believe the difference is glaring and very thought-provoking, to say the least.

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      ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      And people who say you are a non-believer, are judging....You don't beleive?  That's fine...As for those who comment you are a non-believer, because you don't believe?  Shame on them!

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   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   Very astute observation Sandra.The people part is missed the moment an assumptive thread or reply is made. I never feel comfortable with the knowledge that many of the religious posts are simply "explaining" from one book or another that they have the only truth, and the rest of humanity will be punished by their god for not belonging to their particular religion.

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, it seems so backwards that the words of their god said it was in man he loved... *sigh*  to preach love of humanity without the love.

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      Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      So earnest why would you be bothered with such a thread in the first place, if it makes you uncomfortable.
      
      Are people not attracted to a topic , because
      
      1/ looks interesting
      2/ I might know something
      3 Looks like fun
      
      If a non believer for example started a thread on 'Evolution' for example , I might visit ,but my interest would die off , I certainly doubt I would make it a daily ritual to spar or discuss too much.
      
      I would figure ( rightfully so) that like minded people would be discussing the topic.
      
      I think personalities are fantastic ,and who doesnt like to be funny or smart , even occassionally sarcastic, but for it to be a habit just ruins the spirit, offends (pardon the pun) for many people.
      
      
      We all have opinions and whether we like it or not, our thoughts appear on screen ,so it makes no sense to attack one another , after the event so to speak , lol
      

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   Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago

   We may learn more about where they're coming from (if that's of interest to anyone) by engaging in conversation rather than belittling them from the threads with insults.  There are some posters whose thought origins are of no interest to me, but I believe the OP of this thread has an interesting story to tell.

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   SparklingJewelposted 15 years ago

   I like to read where everyone is coming from. I really learn a lot about our individuality, our needs, our thoughts on issues, our spiritual views. I like it that we are all so different and in different places in life understanding. We all learn so much from each other about what love is and is not.

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    Pamda Manposted 15 years ago

    I respect everyone's beliefs but just don't try to preach me.

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    jenblacksheepposted 15 years ago

    Atheists on here always seem to get a bad rep for being rude or disrespectful, whereas religious people are merely seen as standing up for their beliefs. But in my (short) experience most of the threads that get really heated are the ones where a religious person has said something deliberately provoking or disrespectful.
    
    There was the ridiculous 'atheism is irrational, implausible and boring.' there have been several asking why atheists do not believe in god, and today/yesterday the one about evolution being rubbish.
    
    I cannot recall a thread started by a non-religious person saying 'Christianity is stupid' or anything like that, even though I'm sure there are plenty of hubbers who think that.

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       ellie1142545posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I am the grandmother of an Athiest...Even though I, and his grandfather are Christians....We have discussions (when he brings them up), and at the end of our discussion, he remains silent, or he'll say, I'm sorry Grams, but I don't believe that....Do I get upset no....It's his choice, and he is a very fine young man, who is polite, says thankyou, and he loves to volunteer in helping others when he can....Will I try to convert him?  No, I don't have the power to do so, but I can, and do pray for him daily....

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          sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          See, that is a good spirit.  The many times I have heard of folks abandoning or smiting their children (grandchildren) for having a different belief, is really heart breaking and disturbing.
          
          Most my family is Catholic but my aunt, of all of them, is about as sweet as they come.  She doesn't judge, she says what she says and I believe she means it when she says, I love you and god bless.
          
          And when I know that someone really loves me, even when their beliefs are different from mine, then the "holy spirit" does pass on in the sense of being loved and accepted no matter what.
          
          You sound like an excellent grandmother.  Cheers!

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             JonTutorposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I concur... she is a good grandma... there aren't many old folks... who're gonna stand our questioning.

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    None of your sky fairies are controlling anything!

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    I am all for walking the spiritual path, a lot of it is good logic. If you have been loved in life and feel an inner confidence and feeling of "self" then you will already know the rewards of loving in your spirit and soul.I believe that no formal religion is necessary to find this part of self, it requires the painful process of self examination though, and many lack the courage for the journey. Survivor types who have a lot of psychological courage seem to be able to learn how to love as well.I find that immensely motivational.

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