A world without God?

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   atomswifeyposted 15 years ago

   Why is it that there are people in the world that seem to not want a world with God in it?
   
   When I see all the chaos around me I feel it is an essential part of my life to have the faith that I do in God.
   
   Yet when conversating in this forum I most often get verbally attacked by those whom I would guess through their choice of words, of not being acceptable of a world with God.
   
   And why? I mean, I as a Christian share my belief with other christians that God is a God of love and kindness, forgiveness and grace. I fail to see the negatives there.
   
   I understand throughout history there have been horrible crimes of violence in the name of God or religion in general. So then is it right or fair to then say it is because of belief in God that these things took place?
   
   To me those things took place and do take place as a result of people with violent tendencies being provoked by their obvious psychological problems. whether they commmited these acts in the name of their belief in God or not is immaterial. I think if you are mentally ill regardless of your religious beliefs or not, you are mentally ill.
   
   Having said that then, why is it that some people who do not believe in God would rather none of us do? Is it so very wrong for one like myself to walk in love and peace? To strive to do good and keep the commandments which instruct me to do things which benefit society as well? What could possibly be so wrong with that?
   
   I truly believe that if people believed in God, and served Him in the capacity of which I just mentioned the world would be a better place to live.
   
   If we all for example "loved one another", where then would hate have a place? If we all obeyed His commandments which include not to murder or steal or lie, where are the negative implications in any of that?
   
   Sin is a totally and completely seperate issue. Sin is a choice that God would rather us not partake in. So again even there, where is the harm in that? As parents do we not instruct our children not to do things which are harmful? God in the same manner instructs us not to sin. And then much like how we are with our own children, offers us forgiveness and grace if we fall short and give into sin and He is very eager to forgive. So what makes our God so "bad" to believe in?
   
   Is a parent wrong to punish a child if he or she does wrong? Is a parent not very forgiving of that child if and when that child asks for forgiveness or is repentent?
   
   Then why is it that because our Bible teaches that God punishes sin is that regarded as being so negative? Would it not just enforce or otherwise solidify in all of us to do right? So what could be so wrong in that?
   
   I know there might be and probably will be some on here tempted to barade me with the circumstance that sometimes we as Christians try to "pound" our beliefs into them and thats what angers them. And I can really understand that.
   But is that God's fault or the christian?
   
   I know I as a Christian am instructed to witness in a loving manner. I don't "pound" anything into anyone. I come into the forums and respond like everyone else does to certain topics. I lend my opinion to the conversation at hand. When I am asked questions I answer most often and then I sometimes am accused, falsely I might add, of shoving my "religious garbage" in their faces.
   But I would have to argue that if they (the ones who accuse me), were to not comment to me or ask questions of me, I would have nobody to "shove" to. If you get my point there.
   
   But again, I must ask, what is so very wrong with idea that God does exist in this world?

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      Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I can't read such huge posts, sorry.

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   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   You are so not wanting an opinion here!

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      atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I think I asked many questions in that which one could answer. But of course I am offering my own opinion as a starter.
      
      I really do want to know though, why it is that some people would prefer a world without God. what creates that sort of mindset, if you get my point.
      
      I am just really confused as to why one would choose to have a world absent of Him,...Honestly.

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         Aquaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         So, the bottom line is, you didn't really want answers did you?

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      Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      but she'll get plenty anyway

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3. 71

   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   There is not one single piece of evidence for god at all anywhere. He is a figment of mans imagination, and a way of not confronting fear. Hows that?
   Before you cover me in scriptures, understand I know the bible and accept none of it.

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      atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Ok, thats your opinion. But it doesn't really answer my question. Why is it that people would rather a world without God?
      
      Is it that latter part your answer that I am to figure there? That it's because some people may use Him as a way of not confronting fear? Is that the negative in believing? Is what I am getting at.
      
      And really I am just trying to understand as my son asked me the question and I honestly could not answer it.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         What are you not understanding here? It is not a question of "rather a world without god" because there is no god.
         
         Look what happens when you make one up - which you have done. Look at all the conflict and wars - to this day.
         
         A more appropriate question would be, "Why would anyone want to create a fictional god that causes this much strife?"
         
         Your leading questions assume too much and cannot be answered. I personally would rather a world with a god in it. Especially a genuinely loving one instead of this psychopath you people have created.
         
         And please do not try and sell me your god. You are wrong.

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            atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Please Mark, I have had enough debates with you about God and religion. lol
            
            I am not going to try and "sell" God to you.
            
            what I will say in response though is that I find it rather odd that having such a strong opinion as you do that God does not exist, one would think you might have an answer as to "why" you or anyone else would rather He not exist.
            
            Lets say you are right, God does not exist.
            
            That still does not answer the question as to why you or anyone else would not want Him to.
            
            You used the example of wars etc.
            But again, you are using examples of people who create wars etc in the name or under the pretense of God. Not God Himself being the cause if you get my meaning.
            
            God Himself cannot help it if there are those who use His name in creating such things.
            God instructs us to act in love, not hate. To act in love, not violence.
            
            My question was, and is, what is so wrong with having God in this world?
            What do you see in other words, are negative aspects of God on the world? As it is obvious you must be of the opinion there is something negative about God to not want Him as a part of the world, whether He exists or not is not the question.
            whether He's fictional or not is not the point.

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               Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               No - your leading, assumptive question written to get an answer you already know you want was not that.
               
               I already told you I would rather a god existed and do not "want a world without god." I am sure I could invent a perfect god such as the flying spaghetti monster. 
               
               Your god simply does not exist. Please stop twisting everything anyone says. There are many negative things about the god you have invented - and you yourself accept that many bad things have been done in his name - and still are. If you gave it some rational thought, you must surely come to the conclusion that after thousands of years of conflict, there is something inherently wrong with the premise.
               
               Whether or not there is a god is a vital question. Because you are working on the assumption that there is and are prepared to actively twist what I say to suit your irrational beliefs.
               
               I on the other hand do not believe and have necessarily only myself to hold responsible for anything.

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4. 71

   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   Religiosity is hardwired in the human brain, as is the fear of death that drives it.
   A world without god is easy for me to understand, I have lived in one a long time.
   
   It is a world where I take responsibility for myself and my morals, I can become informed about self and not have a set of psychotic reasons for my behavior. It is a world without some lunatic deity threatening to kill those I love it I get anything wrong in a behavior system that has not been tenable for thousands of years. I wrote a hub on god about 6 months ago, but you will not read it.

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      atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I think mostly I feel a sort of sadness from your response here as I feel you do not really understand who my God really is and what He is about.
      
      God is not a God who is going to "kill" those you love if you do something wrong.
      God is God of Love and forgiveness
      He is merciful and His grace infinite.
      
      Yes, he wants for us to keep His commandments. Is that so hard? Is it wrong for God to request that?
      Is there punishment for sin? Yes.
      Just as there is punishment for crimes in society. In God's society there are crimes and punishments as well.
      He is a just God. Does that Him evil? No. It makes Him just. Like with a judge in a court of law. You break the law, the judge issues punishment.
      But even here God offers a pardon.
      And thats not always the case with our judges now is it?
      But with God, he pardons everyone! Anyone and everyone who believes in that pardon.
      
      God says there is but one way to Him and thats through His son. There is forgiveness and life not death through Jesus.
      
      I think the problem most have with belief is the commitment. They are afraid of it. Man has always wanted to be so superior he has cannot nor does he want to be responsible to or accountable to his creator.
      
      so you try to define what we believe as God into something or someone we know He is not and thats how you justify your disbelief or rebellion.
      
      Your mind cannot wrap around the thought that God loves you and because he acts in love, he instructs, and yes sometimes disciplines. And thats what most people who choose not to believe focus on.
      This jealous God who sends people to Hell. Not the gracious unconditonally loving God who speaks to you even now in all of your sin and wants only for you to come to back to Him. And just as with the prodical son, He waits patiently, lovingly and when any of you are ready to accept Him, even through all of your negative words about Him, he will save you.
      
      And I firmly believe if more people were saved and walked in that love there would be no room for sin. No room for death or evil deeds, crimes, etc. The world would be a better place.
      
      Man for thousands of years has tried to walk the earth without God, tried to be his own moral compass. And look at what it has caused. Man who has sin, born into it even cannot possibly wash himself clean from it. And thus brings us to the "why" we do need God in this world.

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         wordscribe41posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         So, I take it since you haven't responded to Earnest or me that we're just supposed to read the nice passages in your Bible, then?  Ignore the parts about killing homosexuals, rape, and killing nonbelievers (I could go one)?  Or, do you agree that's all completely psychotic, scary, and indeed harmful, so you just breeze over those parts?

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   Jewelsposted 15 years ago

   It's quite an irrelevant question.  The world is going to be the same regardless of whether you believe or not believe in "God".  Perhaps ask whether the world would be different if you didn't believe in your definition of God? Or something to that effect.
   
   And I don't think it's God that people are not wanting in the world, it's religion.
   
   Every man, woman, child, dog, cat and cockroach wants love.  You maybe mixing up Love with a lack of belief in a religion perhaps.

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   wordscribe41posted 15 years ago

   I have no doubt that if I believed in God, I would have many of the same questions.  I think you've hinted at one of the answers in your original post:  religion has most certainly been a source of hate, death, fighting, and pure malice. 
   
   I think the human condition mandates a natural desire/drive to uncover truths.  We all have different paths to our own personal truths, some approach it more scientifically, and others are able to accept it from an intuitive/spiritual realm.  I for one, come from the former camp.
   
   So, for me a world without God isn't inherently better, as there is no such thing as a world with God.  No God  is simply aligned with how I perceive the facts, that is, the truth.  The idea that someone could believe in God is for me tantamount to a sort of self-deception, lie, and end result of brain washing that has created devastating effects upon the world.
   
   I agree with Jewels that you're mixing up spirituality and religion...

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      atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Ok, so your point of view is that because people believe in God it has caused or "created devastating effects upon the world"?
      
      Thats fine. But one could argue that maybe it is not the belief in God that has caused that, but a lack of believing, trusting or understanding.
      
      My point being:
      God says:
      Thou shalt not kill
      I see no harm in that commandment, no devastating effects could possibly come from that.
      
      God says:
      Thou shalt not steal
      again no devastating effects from that.
      
      God says:
      Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self
      Honor thy father and mother
      not commit adultery
      not lie
      
      So where are the devastating circumstances from any of that? I think the blame there lies with people not doing what He says, not with actually who He is or the belief in Him.

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         earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         God sayeth a whole lot of hateful stuff too.
         You use the same book? Or do you rip all that out?
         
         Here is some more loving words from your "omni everything entity"
         
         "The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered."  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk.  The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."   (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
         
         Psychotic!

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         wordscribe41posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Indeed the commandments don't bother me a bit. It's the numerous other hateful, fear invoking passages that trouble me. 
         
         Since it's all make believe, there's no way to separate out these "mentally ill" people, as you call them, from the concept of God.  It's open for interpretation.  God only lives through people's interpretation/imagination.  So, the evil that the belief in God perpetuates will always exist as long as people roam the earth.

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            atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            But again there you say, "the evil that the belief in God perpetuates..."
            How is it that evil is perpetuated because of a belief in God?
            
            what is hateful in Gods Word (the Bible)? Fear invoking? Let me ask you this:
            Do you have a fear of going to prison or being executed for murder? Is that your personal "fear"? I would hope not.
            And why do you not fear that?
            You do not fear that because you know you are not going to commit the crime to do the time or be executed right?
            
            
            So, if we as believers walk in love, we keep the commandments, and do as God instructs we have no fear in this life or the next.
            Only those who do not believe, should have those fears. Just as it is with criminals. Only those who commit crimes fear punishment, fear justice.

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               earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Here is some hateful bible crud.
               
               "If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst."   (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
               
               Bloody shame if you got it wrong!

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7. 71

   earnestshubposted 15 years ago

   When did these debates with Mark about religion take place? I have been here a year and I have not seen them. Or do you use another name on here?

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   Aquaposted 15 years ago

   Atomswifey - Realistically, would you have been happy with any response?
   
   These discussions never really end up going anywhere except round and round. You will not change anyone's mind, and they will not change yours. People all over the world have different beliefs and that's a good thing.

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   andrewagmackerposted 15 years ago

   Well, this is a topic that always generates arguments. I'm Brazilian, but the situation is here that looks, my parents are Protestant Christian Coalition.
   
   Why so much hatred of God? In fact I believe that most of the time and it is not God, but rather the religion itself!
   A lot of Christians try to judge others, not of the same beliefs as sinners all to hell unless you follow our teachings. As a Buddhist friend said, what counts is not words but simple acts of everyday life.
   
   Note: I will not even go into the merits of the Wars of Religion because as you said it happens in all religions, the wrong people (with different ideals) leading a word you do not know or do not follow.

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      Aquaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Dude - 33 hubs in 2 days? Have you slept at all lol!

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10. 71

    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    Wrong again atomswifey. I have trouble even comprehending that you can believe in such a god. Your biblical god is not someone who punishes when needed, We are talking someone who hates whole nations, homosexuals, and most peoples of the world. We are talking about a psychopath here, not someone handing out "just" and deserved punishment!

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       atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       No I think it is you who are wrong.
       God does not in any way, shape or form Hate in that respect.
       He does not hate nations
       He does hate people
       He does not hate Homosexuals.
       
       He hates sin, not the sinner! and thats the distinction which needs clarifying there.
       
       Let me make this very clear:
       God created the earth
       God created man
       God set the rules
       He made the laws
       He gave man free will
       Man rebelled
       Sin entered
       God is just
       He set the punishment
       He then gave man the option for forgiveness, a pardon if you will
       Because he LOVES us
       there is no hate in any of that.
       
       You have to consider the law and who breaks them. God is no respector of persons. He doesn't "select" a few chosen to recieve Him. He recieves ALL who accept Him.
       
       He gave us all free will.
       We make the choice
       He put it in our hands, our own destiny. Whether we will or will not recieve that pardon is dependent on us.
       
       NOBODY has to be puniished by going to hell. God not choose that. He wrote the law, true. He also set the punishment for sin.
       But it is we who decide whether or not to commit those sins.
       It is we who decide whether to accept His forgiveness.
       It is we who make those decisions for ourselves.
       
       Case in point:
       we have rule of law in our society.
       We have courts and judges who rule over and enforce those laws and the punishments for the crimes
       The laws are written and stand on their own.
       Judges have an obligation to uphold the laws written
       They cannot or atleast should not compromise the law in favor of a personal opinion etc. right? Because for them to do so would not be, JUST.
       
       However in some cases, judges will rule to pardon or excuse the case. Maybe an attorney fought on behalf of the defendant and the judge found in favor to release the criminal and even drop the charges.
       
       It's the same for God.
       He is just.
       He is loving.
       He cannot however allow that love to supercede His own laws. He is just as I said.
       So, he gave us an "attorney" so to speak. Jesus.
       We believe in Him and we are granted a pardon.
       The biggest distinction there is that as a Christian we are guaranteed a pardon!
       Theres no question about it. If we ask for forgiveness, we are forgiven. period.
       This goes for homosexuals, thieves, drunkards, even murderers! Anyone and everyone who accepts Him and asks for forgiveness is forgiven. Thats love my friend, not hate.

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    wordscribe41posted 15 years ago

    By the way, I'm a social worker.  I've spent my life helping and loving others when no one else would or could.  I'm pretty pleased with my moral compass, thank you very much.  It has nothing to do with God, it comes from me.

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    wordscribe41posted 15 years ago

    "If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, 10  the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves."  Isn't that lovely?

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13. 71

    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    or how about some god sanctioned rape, infanticide, poligamy and forgiveness!
    
    
    "Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives (plural) while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor.  He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight.  You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'"
        Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord."  Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die.  But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die."  (The child dies seven days later.)   2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB

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       wordscribe41posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Gosh, now that just gives me warm fuzzies everywhere, Earnest.  I SO want to be saved now.    YEAH!  It's my 1000 post.

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          earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Hey Congrats WS!

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          atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          David my friends lusted after and killed the husband of a woman he wished to be married to.
          David was supposed to be a man of God. God had made David a king, set him high as an example, a representative of God!
          God commanded that "thou shall not kill, thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife etc." David broke those laws and in addition like it says there by doing so "spurned God". In other words, David made God look foolish in the sight of men.
          God indeed punished him in that way.
          
          But I love how you so eagerly furnished Old Testament scripture and then mocked wanting to be saved since you could not have been saved until Jesus came to be in the New Testament.
          
          The Old Testament is where the law comes to be as well as Gods Judgements which were very very severe, true. Like I said in response to someone else, God HATES sin.
          But
          and this is a big BUT,
          God reconciled Himself with man and created a way for forgiveness other than "smoting" ones young or burning a city to the ground.
          
          Now all one has to do to be saved is ask
          
          But don't you worry, theres coming a time when a swift judgement of biblical proportions is coming. And you will get to see this God who you think hates, this God who you think is a "psychopath", this God who although you tend to believe now is "fictional". And on that day
          EVERY knee shall bow! even yours.
          
          My prayer as always though is that those knees of yours hit the ground before that happens.

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             wordscribe41posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             There's no such thing as being saved at all, my friend.  Makes no difference where I inserted that comment.  You REALLY wonder after what you just said in such a threatening manner why we believe a world without YOUR God is better?  Congratulations, you just answered your own question!!! 

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    GeneralHowitzerposted 15 years ago

    Get Real Earnest nyahahaha I can't believe my eyes you're righteous nyahhaha.

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       earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Well you know general, someone needs to speak the simple truth of what we are being served here!

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          GeneralHowitzerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Can you rate this hub for me if its good nyahahaha... I'll drop by with your profile I hope you have time doing it so.
          
          I know you are good nyahahaha there's no doubt 'bout that, not even benefit of the doubt nyahahahahahahahahahahah.....

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    GeneralHowitzerposted 15 years ago

    Looks like earnest is in for a very hot argument goodluck to all of you nyahahaha, i already have enough of this with my hubs, especially with the evolution crap...
    
    Hehehe just tell me earnest when you need some talisman hehehe i will lend it to you nyahahahahaha....

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16. 71

    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    No, he does not exist and the only "proof" you have is the book I am quoting to you from, that you claim is his word.
    
    If anyone rebels against your orders and does not obey every command you give him, he shall be put to death.  But be firm and steadfast.   (Joshua 1:18 NAB)
    Like I said Psychotic!

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    Funny how you "disconnect" from the old testament.
    
    It seems jesus did not fulfil the prophesies, so I can see why.
    
    
    The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30).  Yet, how could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth. Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.

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       atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I did not "disconnect" from the Old Testament!
       I stated that the Old Testament is where Gods Law came to be and His judgements.
       I then went on to say that The New Testament is where Jesus came to be
       Thus reconciling man to God
       providing a way for ALL to be saved regardless of sin
       
       and now I am really laughing as God just pointed out to me you all should be REALLY thankful Jesus came to be.
       Remember God punished people severely back then for less blasphemies then what you have displayed here.
       
       Hmmmm, that makes me think, maybe you should reconsider your stance here if you think it might be possible that this God who hates people so much, who mock him, sin against Him, who sentences people to hell fire for blasphemy and so on, really does exist, don't ya think??
       I mean if I were in your shoes, I think I might be slightly more careful in your words here.
       I mean if God does exist and He's as evil as you think He is, you guys might be in some trouble right? But you don't believe so I guess you're in the clear.
       
       But thats a two edge sword isnt it? You say on one hand you would not want to believe in God so evil like that, so you choose not to believe thinking that a disbelief will save you more than a belief?
       Or maybe thats it,
       You think that by not believing in Him makes him non-existant and therefor you do not need saving from anything right?
       see, you criticize me for believing in this ficticious being. You say I only believe in Him because of my imagination running wild propelled by what was it? Oh yes now I remember, "a deception, a lie". But I urge you to keep open the fact that just because I believe he does exist does not make Him in fact,  exist. And just because you don't believe he exists, does not make Him non-existant either!
       
       BUT, so if you're right I guess you have nothing to worry about. I mean really, how could a fictional being punish anyone to hell if it or He does not exist.
       OK. So how about this,
       I will go on believing in my God and will look forward to being with Him someday soon. If I'm wrong, no harm no foul, I just *poof* am no more.
       And you can go on NOT believing. But then,,,,...what happens if us Christians are right afterall? I mean and you're wrong, He's there and you are standing in front of Him? What then? I guess you'll just...um, take your chances right?
       ok. no problem.
       
       And for your information Romans does not distinguish it as "physical" in relation to the descendant of David.

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    Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago

    Its pretty evident from opinions here ,that we pretty much do have a world without God (probably just in HP)
    
    If anything good and bad comes from within ,then God hasnt been responsible for anything? right
    
    Ya cant have it both ways

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       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I see you are beginning to see the light.

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    wordscribe41posted 15 years ago

    "This goes for homosexuals, thieves, drunkards, even murderers! Anyone and everyone who accepts Him and asks for forgiveness is forgiven. Thats love my friend, not hate."
    
    I'm so going to disregard the fact that you think homosexuals need to be forgiven...  It's a whole new topic, but it's anathema to me that you perceive it to be a sin.

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       atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I do not "perceive" homosexuality as a sin, it just is. Just as premarital heterosexual sex is.
       I really, as does God, could care less if you or anyone else thinks it is or not. God said it is, so it is. His law not mine or yours.
       
       You think its not a sin because you live in a world of sin which condones it as an acceptable practice and lifestyle. I think it's a sin because I live apart from this world of sin, I do not condone the practice as acceptable when I apply the law of God.
       
       And this will surely make you laugh, I have homosexual friends!
       They know my beliefs and stance on the subject. They accept me as a friend and a Christian. I accept them as friends and sinners.
       I pray for them and some even call me up from time to time to pray for them!
       
       I accept the people they are not the sin they take part in. I love my friends, ALL my friends regardless of whether they are gay or whatever.
       
       And heres one that might even stick it hard to some of my Christian friends.
       One of my dearest friends is trans-gender.
       She attends along with her wife whom she married prior to surgery, our church.
       
       I do not believe her to be a sinner. She was born male, got married and has stayed married to her wife for over 25 years! She loves the Lord very much and tells me God did not make a mistake when making her. He just added a few extra female hormones to her male body.
       
       So yes there are some of us radical Christians who have tolerance and open minds.

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          wordscribe41posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          You are about the farthest thing I can imagine from tolerant and open-minded.  It's beliefs like yours that make gay people's lives so miserable.  Change yourself and they won't need to come crying to you. 
          
          I'm quite pleased with my world, as I mentioned.  I'm a social worker that's spent a lot of time cleaning up the mess fundamentalists like you have made.  I've counseled gay people, I've assisted them in fighting for their rights.  Any God I'd be interested in believing in is smiling down on me now. 
          
          I KNOW you're real, I'm much more worried about the effects your belief system has now on the living.

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             atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Bravo! Yay for you and your so p.c. belief system.
             I am glad you counsel with those you work with and care for people. I care for people too.
             You think because we believe that gay sex is a sin that we hate, or are intolerant of the gay person, and that is simply not true!
             
             My Bible tells me to "Love one another even as Christ loves me". It does not distinguish whether they are gay or straight! I love as God loves me, unconditionally.
             I just do not condone or love the sin.
             
             I believe that premarital heterosexual sex is a sin too, so do you think that I hate those who practice that lifestyle as well? no I do not.
             
             Like I said, God does hate the sinner, he loves everyone equally!!!
             He loves all of us with the same amount of love. Regardless of the sin in our lives.
             
             Note how I put an "OUR" in there!
             See what you are failing to see here is that
             "All have sinned and fall short"
             My sin is no greater or LESS than that of the homosexual. Sin is SIN
             
             You said earlier in response to me that you found it odd I would conclude the homosexual "needs" forgiveness.
             I say, WE ALL DO! Yes homosexuals need forgiveness, so do I so do you! I believe every man and woman on the planet "NEEDS" forgiveness!
             
             I ask God daily for it! I ask Him to forgive sins I know about and even ones I don't. Like the kind of sins where you might have offended someone in word or action without realizing it, that sort of thing.
             
             And my point there anyway was to reflect that God does not care what sin you have commited He loves you and is eager to forgive even when that sin might have been murder. Thats the extent of his love.

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    I am not thankful for what never happened, and as I have said before I do not fear a god that does not exist either so I have no fear of what you call blasphemy. the book is phony, so are the hundreds of different religions that interpret it.
    As for the just in case theory, I have more chance of being eaten by an alligator in my lounge room on a Wednesday between 3 and 4 pm than I have of being attacked by your maniac god for not believing in it. No the only risk I take is upsetting a few fanatical religionists.

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       wordscribe41posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       LMAO!  But, Earnest, God TALKED to her.  Aren't you shaking in your boots?  Better stay outta that lounge now, ya hear.
       
       "Remember God punished people severely back then for less blasphemies then what you have displayed here."  He's SO loving, you're right.   

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          earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          As one Engish comedian was fond of saying, "We got a right one ere!

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       atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Like I said and the two of you can mock me all you want, I DO realize you do not fear because of your disbelief. I also realize that is why you have no respect either. I was agreeing with you on that!
       
       As far as my God "attacking" you?? I never said that. God does not ATTACK people LOL please.
       All he says is
       "I stand at the door and knock".
       you either answer it or not. whether or not you are ever punished for your disbelief only time will tell on that. Like I said, if you come to one day accept Him you won't ever have to worry about it.
       The truth is though, that if you don't then one day whether you choose to believe this or not, you will be worried about it.
       
       Right now the condition of your soul and where it may or may not be going is inconsequential to you. You are choosing to not believe in God, eternity with or without Him etc. You have based this disbelief on the fact you cannot "see" Him nor your soul. so you tend to believe that He is not there. I get that! So does He, by the way. Which is why He said "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things NOT seen."
       All I'm saying is that someday we will all know the truth about Him. Whether he exists or not, whether there's a hell or not, whether you're going to be going there or not etc.and I just think thats a huge gamble for non-believers. It is not a huge gamble for me since if you are right and there is no God, I'm still in the clear. That was my point.
       
       Non-believers like to think we christians are fear mongering when we talk about hell and punishment for sin. Thats fine. call me a "fear mongerer" if you must. Again, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong. You have absolutely Nothing, nor anyone to fear. 
       
       And you do not nor does anyone here "upset" me. I am calmly having this discussion while sipping my morning coffee. thank you.

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21. 0

    wordscribe41posted 15 years ago

    No, it has nothing to do with not being able to "see" him.  I can't see protozoa or cells, but I certainly believe they exist!  Why?  There's PROOF!

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       atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Oh I am positive you will have your "proof" unfortunately that may not happen until you are standing there in front of Him.

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          tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I just got my 'proof' that he doesn't exist,,,after reading all your posts !

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          My Friend Shiylohposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          My friend says:
          Love knows when to be silent to draw you in.

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    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    lol
    
    I think your idea of "not pounding," is a little different. And we seem to have got back to you threatening eternal damnation and imaginary sins like homosexuality.
    
    Now go back and look at your original post.
    
    Open minded? Don't make me laugh.
    
    As I said to you before - If you do not want people laughing at your beliefs - you should not have such funny beliefs.

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       atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I did not threaten anyone.
       I am not pounding anything.
       and whether or not homosexuality is a sin real or imagined is not up to you!
       And whether or not there is eternal damnation for anyone is not up to you either!
       
       Like I said Mark, time and time again,
       you do not want to believe? fine. Don't.
       Do I care? Yes. Because I do want for anyone to stand before God one day not knowing Him, being rebellious and having chosen a lifestyle of sin.
       
       I am a Christian. I come into the "religion" forum topic to have discussion with other people of faith. More often than that though, I am confronted with those who do not believe and I question why it is any of you come in here at all.
       
       If you do not believe in any form of religion why enter into the topic of discussion?
       Is it just to debate and argue with those who do? Obviously so.
       
       As a result of this, I have chosen from time to time to conversate or I should say, debate vigorously the topic with you. I have chosen this because I do not hide behind my beliefs. I share them openly.
       Call them funny, I do not care. I really, honestly whoole heartedly do not care Mark!
       
       I think what you believe is funny. that we just all sort of...happened! And that we evolved from monkees. That to me sounds weird and funny. So what? Do you care? Honestly? I don't think so.
       
       I do not care if you laugh at me or make fun of me or mock my belief system.
       I am strong in my beliefs! I take pride in knowing my God and I offer my knowledge of Him to anyone who reads lovingly and honestly as I see it.
       
       If you then choose to sink to the level of immaturity and mock it or laugh at it, so be it.
       It is you, not I who will be standing there someday Mark. But you know what, I do not laugh now nor will I laugh then.
       because unlike you, I take this very seriously and I care about what happens to people when they go on from this life. It is no laughing matter as I see it.
       I take no pleasure in seeing anyone go on from this life not believing in God.

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    XTASISposted 15 years ago

    People that believe in God will never accept He doesn't exist. Because without Him they are nothing

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       Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Exactly
       
       Finally a thinking mind

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    "And my point there anyway was to reflect that God does not care what sin you have commited He loves you and is eager to forgive even when that sin might have been murder. Thats the extent of his love."
    So they must all be christians then.
    
    Your bible says
    Don’t associate with non-Christians.  Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them.  2 John 1:10
    
    Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own.  Deuteronomy 13:6-10
    
    Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you.  Deuteronomy 13:12-16
    
    Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own.  Deuteronomy 17:2-7
    See plenty of love to go round!
    Hell, according to your bible you should not even be here!
    
    Shun those who disagree with your religious views.  Romans 16:17

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       atomswifeyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       It does not say to not associate with non christians!
       Jesus himself associated with non believers throughout his entire ministry.
       2 John 2:10 is refering to false prophets/religions. It is meant as instruction because of people indoctrinating you with false beliefs. Not dis-belief. And furthermore,
       
       Did they stone people to death back then? yes. But did you read that whole passage all of the conditions which they warranted for such a thing? It went on and on. And it did NOT in Deuteronomy 17:2-7
       say to KILL everyone who has different religious views!!!
       
       17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 
       17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 
       17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 
       17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. 
       
       
       But again, you are quoting scripture from the Old Testament. It is how they lived then. The people in that time were devout in their beliefs and keeping to their faith in God. It was litteraly, a crime punishable in their opinion/view to stone to death someone who fit into that catagory and did all those things mentioned above and too only if it were in the confines of the circumstances stated as well.
       
       They didn't just stone you to death if you disagreed with them about God! LOL
       please.
       
       Jesus went into the home of a tax collector who was considered to be a sinner/non-believer. He sat with those people who were getting drunk and partying with prostitutes and the like
       Jesus' own disciples were questioned as to why Jesus would enter into the home of and eat with sinners this is what Jesus said
       Mark 2:
       15While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16. When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"
       
       17. On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

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    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    A world without God could not exist.  At least not for long.  It's prophesied that the daily Sacrifice is just taken away for three and a half years, then comes judgment day.  Those that say the world will be better off without God and religion will be sorry for what they have helped bring about, not after the three and a half years but not long into it.

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       XTASISposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       When this Three and a half years begin ? I would like to get ready for D Day

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          Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Anytimes good

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             XTASISposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Any time ? That sounds  chaotic

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                Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Well leave it to the last minute ,whatever lol

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          Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          This will help you get ready.
          http://www.drbo.org/index.htm

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             XTASISposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I don't think I'll find My Answer there. But thank you anyway !

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                earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Enough of the madness for one day. Goodnight.

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    Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago

    Nite

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    XTASISposted 15 years ago

    Good night! Sweet Dreams !!

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    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    In front of who? You do not have one bit of evidence for your belief! Your faith is not proof of anything other than your gullibility perhaps. Keep your assumptions to yourself, don't project them on those who are not a part of your beliefs.

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