jump to last post 1-8 of 8 discussions (11 posts)

How does one determine that their baptism by water and fire is correctly done by

  1. proton66 profile image59
    proton66posted 7 years ago

    How does one determine that their baptism by water and fire is correctly done by authority?

    Most people recognize authority, and in the Christians world, for example, baptism by immersion is the first step back to God. The drawback on this matter is the number of times one needs to be baptized (going from one denomination to another). Either it (power and authority) still exist or it doesn't. If it doesn't then religious leaders in many denomination are falsely claiming to have it. Therefore, all current baptisms are invalid. If it does exist, then there can only be one highly recognized by God Almighty; feign claiming is invalidates everything.

  2. point2make profile image81
    point2makeposted 7 years ago

    I'm not sure where to start here......First to be Baptized, in water, is an act of obedience. Jesus commanded us to be baptized. This has nothing whatsoever to do with "denominations". You are being misled or you are confused. Without a personal relationship with Jesus Christ being immersed in water is meaningless. Your Baptism does not come from the authority of your denomination or pastor it comes from the Word and while it is true a pastor, who is a Bible believing  Christian, {and many are not} does have the biblical authority to baptize so does any Elder or indeed any Christian, in good standing, could baptize you in the name of Jesus. We have made the "baptism" very formal in our churches but it doesn't have to be that way.
    Accepting Jesus as your Saviour is a personal decision that only you can make. You will either choose to follow Christ or you will not!......It is that simple. Being baptized is another choice you will also make. The Bible teaches that we are to be baptized in the name of Jesus but  it is "you" who will make that decision whether you get baptized or not. You cannot be coerced into it nor can you be baptized against your will. It is a choice only you can make. The denominations you speak of are not the center of the Christian life.......Jesus Christ is and while he told us to "gather yourselves together" because real Christians need each other in our walk with Him..He also gave us some warnings.
    Some of the "facts" you state have come from what Jesus himself referred to as "the doctrines of man". These "doctrines" have nothing to do with "your" salvation. He also warned about denominations who have " a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof ....from such turn away". I hope I haven't confused the issue for you. I just wanted you to know that this sacred choice is yours and only yours. Jesus said "I place before your life and death.......choose life"

  3. Dave Mathews profile image61
    Dave Mathewsposted 7 years ago

    Any "Christian" "Born Again" through their adoption into Jesus and baptized in the Holy Spirit, has the right and obligation to "Baptize" Jesus sent out his apostles instructing them to do so, and since this is the case all those who follow Christ Jesus can baptize.

    Jesus instructed to Baptize in the name of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit, these words must be spoken during the time of baptism as words of authority.

    1. celafoe profile image56
      celafoeposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      absolutely correct. this is scriptural method, whoever brings them to the Lord is to baptize them right away.

  4. proton66 profile image59
    proton66posted 7 years ago

    @Dave, what an interesting concept to say that through the name of the Father, the Son and the HG signifies the authority itself which, to me parallels someone saying, “I’m an officer of the law and you are under arrest”. Right there, not only am I a fraud but the arrest itself is invalid (unauthorized).
    @Luckycharmz.  Why do you consider pouring of water as a form of baptism when that is not what JC did? Are you saying that the emergency baptism helps those who have one minute left of life and may not make it back to heaven? Sounds like some Bishop or Priest didn’t have the proper solution and made up that rule; a total deviation from what JC had established. This is where we all need to look beyond the Bible on how baptism is rendered to those who are about to die, and those already dead. Unless this is addressed, there will always be pouring of water; still makes no sense. 

    @Point2Make. Disregarding my use of “denomination”, it sounds like you don’t agree with baptism being a formality. Then what should it be? I agree we all have the choice but once a person believes what JC is all about then baptism should not be a debate in the mind.

    Surely, denomination is not the center of Christian life but JC is, and one should decide whether to be in or out? If one chooses to be out then there is no need to care about authority, salvation, etc. Might as well be an Atheist, a Muslim or a Jew. But if one chooses to be in, then one needs to have due diligence, and ensure their baptism is valid. That means, one should be able to trace back that authority (performer’s) to JC, accept JC as the author of man's salvation, and not make a big fuss on baptism being too formal. Otherwise, everything is but a fraud. And I strongly believe most all religions cannot validate their authority to act in the name of JC which is why we have so many making up things as they go; creating mass confusion.

    1. celafoe profile image56
      celafoeposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      you have drunk the kool aid of the churches of men.   ANY born again and baptized Christian has the only valid Authority  in Christianity, Jesus auth,.  the authority of the believer to baptize any one meeting the qualifications to be baptized

  5. Sethareal profile image76
    Setharealposted 7 years ago

    I'm a Jew so I regard baptism differently and will admit that I do not understand exactly how it is done/used by Christians, nevertheless since presumably Jesus was baptized as a Jew you might find this interesting.

    Baptism by water and fire is metaphorical, the essence of baptism is a near death experience. The idea is that when you are about to die, you have a revelation and realize in that moment what is truly important, you have a deeper connection and more direct relation to God as you shed the mortal coil. So in this sense any time you honestly believe you are going to die, that is a baptism.

    In order to induce a near death experience a priest would take you to the mikva, that was the sacred pool of water in the Temple used for various religious functions of spiritual purification, and dunk your head under the holy waters until the moment of near death. I may be out in left field here, but the story as I understood it was that John the Baptist was a rebel because he performed baptism for people free of charge in one of the rivers, Galilee, Jordan? The fact that Jesus accepted baptism outside of the temple made him enemies within the religious authority of the time.

    I would imagine that the reason it is important from a Christian perspective is that Christ had to face his death through the ritual of baptism in order to prepare himself for the events to come.

    So in regards to the issue of who has authority to perform baptisms, and again I am speaking as a Jew here, there are a few possible answers as I see it. 1) All current baptisms are invalid since the temple was destroyed and we no longer have access to the mikva. 2) All current mikva's that have been consecrated by the living religious communities may have legitimate baptisms performed. 3) People are baptized everyday, whether they are in a near-fatal car accident, slip in the tub, or diffuse a bomb in Afghanistan.

    Considering that the Jewish calendar goes back 5700 years, and we only had a Temple for roughly 1000 years intermittently, I tend to believe in both options 2 and 3 as valid.

  6. orlansison profile image60
    orlansisonposted 7 years ago

    Jesus Christ made a remarkable example of following His Father's will through baptism (Matthew 3:16-17). And baptism is one of the ordinance in following the Lord after we accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior we gained the right to be called the Son of God (John 1:12). And to be able to actualize our faith to the Lord that we are His son and follower we go for baptism. With the help of our Pastors who perform baptism to new believers. The act of water baptism by authorized people who faithfully follow what are in the bible are valid by the word of God in the bible

    1. celafoe profile image56
      celafoeposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      totally contrary to scripture , but it is doctrine of men.   Any Christian can   and should baptize those he  or she leads to the Lord asap.

  7. HOOWANTSTONO profile image59
    HOOWANTSTONOposted 7 years ago

    Just follow this and you cant go wrong, unless you listen to man and get confused etc which seems to be the case.

    Jhn 3:3     Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    Jhn 3:5    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    Jhn 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    Jhn 3:8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

  8. celafoe profile image56
    celafoeposted 4 years ago

    there is only ONE authority in Christianity.  Jesus Christ.   And He has given every born again believer HIS authority to be used for His Purpose.   Any saint that is born again and baptized in water and His Holy Spirit has His authority to baptize, to have/lead communion, heal the sick, cast out demon and every other function of Christianity.   
    The evil churches of men doctrines , in order to protect their unscriptural positions, have all kind of foolish unscriptural rules that are not according to scripture.    They have made a mockery of the simplicity of the Gospel by adding their carnal opinions to everything.
    water Baptism is not for a show, or to put another notch in someones bible.   Its purpose according to scripture is to circumcize the hard heart of the natural man thereby allowing him to receive the things of God.
    Col 2:11    In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
    And the baptism in the Holy Spirit give Him the authority and entry into your life so that He can teach you all things.
    These are for the believer and you do not need any self styled "authority" , the authority of Jesus is all.
    Scripture says the head of man is CHRIST.  not any man.
    So, if you are satisfied with your baptism after studying scripture , dont let anyone try to re do you into their idea.