Lucifer, the morning star

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   lgolden1911posted 15 years ago

   Isaiah 14:12 reads thusly:
   
   12 -- How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
   
   This is the only time Lucifer is present in the Bible, and it's a masculine noun meaning "morning star."  Now with that being said, let's look at Revelation 22:16:
   
   16 -- I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
   
   So here, Jesus clearly refers to Himself as "the bright and morning star."  And given Jesus came to the world to destroy the works of the devil (I JN 3:8), and they both clearly have opposing agendas in mind (JN 10:10), is it a slap in Jesus' face to refer to Satan as Lucifer since the former is "the bright and morning star?"

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      L. Andrew Marrposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Nah,
      
      Just because Lucifer means morning star doesn't make him THE morning star.
      
      My name means wolf but that doesn't make me a wolf.

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         lgolden1911posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         That's true for you because you're not trying to be a wolf; Satan, on the other hand, was trying to be the morning star despite the fact that he's not.  I just feel like addressing him as Lucifer grants him some of that honor he was looking for but doesn't deserve.  I know a dude named Jesus, but his folks named him that, and he's not trying to be the Messiah -- so I think your name and his name are different situations than the one with Satan.

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   sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago

   I think there one in the same but thats one of the mysteries that will be revealed.

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   child of christposted 15 years ago

   lucifer is not the morning star,JESUS IS THE STAR  FROM THE RISING OF THE SUN AND THE SEPTRE IS THE LORD OF THE WEST,the gosple of JOHN will clarify any question that may arise from this question

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   The Gospel of John is my favorite.
   
   Note how in Isaiah Lucifer is described as the "son of the morning".
   
   Some Bibles have Isaiah 14:12 reading "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?"
   
   In Revelation Jesus is describe as the "morning star".
   
   Big difference.

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      lgolden1911posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      That still doesn't refute the fact that in Hebrew/Armaic Lucifer translates to "morning star" -- so ultimatedly the scripture says, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O morning star, who didst rise in the morning." 
      
      Where's the big difference?

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   kessposted 15 years ago

   Evil just cannot exist without assimilating some Good.
   
   Darkness cannot exist without assimilating some light.
   
   Ignorance cannot exist without assimilating some knowledge.
   
   Lies  cannot exist without assimilating some truth.
   
   So why should it be strange that if Satan (epitome of evil) exist then he must have  assimilated some of the attributes of the nature of God.
   
   Don't just read the bible read the things around you they too have very interesting stories to tell.

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      lgolden1911posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The only thing that's strange to me is that Satan clearly said he was trying to exalt himself to where the Almighty God is (IS 14:13), Lucifer, meaning "morning star" puts Satan in the same fashion as Jesus assessed himself in REV 22:16, and people are giving Satan the honor he was after by calling him Lucifer because they're calling him the morning star.

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   Scott.Lifeposted 15 years ago

   Whats more Amazing to me is that none of you bible scholars have hit on the fact that Isaiah was not referring to the devil at all, but a Babylonian king, that existed at the time and was overseeing the banishment and enslavement of the Jewish people. He was mocking said king who considered himself a God. The term Lucifer was not even used in the Bible until early medieval translations in Latin. This is basic stuff covered in any bible history companion or encyclopedia. I suggest you invest some real time and effort into exploring the historical narratives of the time frames involved in the bible. This very issue brought on by word mistranslation is why most Bible translations produced from original Greek and Hebrew scriptures after the 1960's do not include the term Lucifer at all. Lucifer is Latin for bringer of light, not morning star. Look it up.

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      lgolden1911posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      But couldn't the king of Babylon being referred to been in a figurative way?  And my source (The Complete Word Study Dictionary:  Old Testament {ISBN 0-89957-667-2}) brings out Lucifer referring to the king of Babylon.  It also says Lucifer means "shining one" in Latin.  However, didn't Hebrew/Aramaic come before Latin?  Lucifer equals 'heylel' in Hebrew/Aramaic which does mean "morning star" -- I don't see how you've refuted that except for saying it doesn't mean that in Latin, which I never said.  I was talking about its Hebrew/Aramaic translation, and since the people who wrote the Bible were writing in a mix of Hebrew/Aramaic, that takes precedence for me over the Latin.

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   SirDentposted 15 years ago

   According to Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew definitions.
   
   H1966
   הילל
   hêylêl
   BDB Definition:
   Lucifer = “light-bearer”
   1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer
   1a) of the king of Babylon and Satan (figuratively)
   2) (TWOT) ‘Helel’ describing the king of Babylon
   Part of Speech: noun masculine
   A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H1984 (in the sense of brightness)
   Same Word by TWOT Number: 499a

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      lgolden1911posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I appreciate that, sir.  As a matter of fact, I appreciate errbody's feedback; I feel like I'm learning.

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   You are partially right Scott.  This is the commentary in my Bible for Isaias 14:12.
   
   12 "O Lucifer"... O day star. All this, according to the letter, is spoken of the king of Babylon. It may also be applied, in a spiritual sense, to Lucifer the prince of devils, who was created a bright angel, but fell by pride and rebellion against God.
   
   Babylon is also referred to throughout the Bible as evil or having to do with satan.  An example being Revelation 18:2 "And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen; and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every unclean spirit, and the hold of every unclean and hateful bird:"
   
   Jesus is never referred to as Babylon.
   
   Lucifer or satan was referred to as a morning star until he fell.

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