I know that kind of falls outside the Christians versus atheists ongoing theme of the religion section here, but I thought I'd just offer it up as a bit of reality.
This is what I believe: Life is hard and then you die. You can either be kind to others and try to alleviate suffering while you're here, or you can ruthlessly protect your own interests, as if you have any, as if you aren't going to drop dead same as everyone else.
No one gets out of here alive. So my take is, be nice, or be delusional and crappy. Those are the choices.
Yup - that is how it works all right.
I'll Take "Delusional and Crappy" for $500, please.
If there is an after life? and I believe that there is of some kind then there would have to be some kind of purpose for this one. This a poor analogy but our purpose might be kinda like a steak being seasoned before it is put on the grill, or unknowingly being prepared to survive in a new environment dimension. What ever our purpose is I think that it must be achieved through some kind of teamwork.
And I say this for Mark... I blindly have faith (here comes the rider) in some things.
Life is just what you want it to be, how you see it.
Look at that as if it was bad - it will be bad, getting worse every day. Everyone will be annoying you, everything will be going wrong, etc.
Look at it in more positive way - and it will smile back at you.
All of it is just a question of attitude.
It's just a bowl of cherries. Don't take it serious. It's too mysterious!
Seriously, though it's NOT all in your attitude. Sometimes looking at the positive side of things makes sense. Other times it just makes it easier to ignore the suffering of others.
To be able to look at POSITIVE side (force yourself to do it if needed) is where your strength lies.
There is so much suffering in this world - starting from your neighbour's sick pet to starving kids in Africa. What can YOU do about it?
If you can do something about it, - go and DO it. If not - don't let it drain you.
It sounds very blunt and cold, but it's the way it all goes. Suffering yourself just because you can't help someone suffering is totally pointless - you are directly or indirectly harming those who care about YOU.
You can't control everything you want to control, unfortunately, and you must accept that fact.
I just disagree with you. The requirement that we all look at the bright side every single minute is all for the convenience and comfort of the people issuing that command. So you think everyone should be positive all the time. Why? Does that make your life easier? If you are already busy looking on the bright side, why do you care what anyone else thinks or feels or says?
I think sometimes it pays to just tell the truth without labeling it as negative or positive. If you can't tell the truth, or can't even see what just IS, then you're delusional. Period. If you can't live with the knowledge that life is full of suffering and pain and then it ends whether you're ready or not, fine. But don't put it on ME for bringing it up. That's your issue, not mine.
Pgrundy, first thing - I did not mean anything personal. And I'm not putting anything on you.
Second - I always try to tell the truth, without sugar.
Third - I'm not blind, I can see the world around me and I'm quite sensitive to others. I just can not afford to let all that in my emotions - I'll get crazy.
Fourth - when people die, it's their choice. Choice of their soul. And when they make it, they are ready for it, though their relatives/friends/etc may be not. Only thing you can do is respect their choice (ok, this has a lot of religious background, but still).
Fifth, you can't ALWAYS see only the bright side, because you are human. Sometimes you're in a bad mood, sometimes worried, sometimes something else. But you should try not to give in.
Does the above make my life easier? Yes, it does. And a lot.
I agree with everything you say here apart from the "choice of their soul" bit - to me, it's a bit fanciful to think that if someone gets run over by a bus it's because their soul has chosen to move on LOL.
I can think of only one higher point to making any choice if there is only death to look forward to in the end. Humanity could have the potential to get off the planet and seed the universe with life if we could just put our petty bickering and greed and hate aside and work together for the benefit of everyone. The biggest crime I can think of is our sun going nova and we are still on earth squabbling over stupid shit and are incinerated in our own sun.
What if life is actually very rare in the universe?
What if the rare life usually cannot make it beyond that of the level of bacteria?
What point is there in the majesty and awe of all the galaxies in the universe if there is nothing that can be aware of it or attempt to understand it or just like the fact that it exists at all?
If death is just the inescapable total destruction of self and this fleeting thing I call my life has no intrinsic purpose or value beyond what my ego gives it then let my ego be feed by the thought that in some small way I have contributed to the chances for human survival beyond the life span of this planet. Perhaps individuals can never hold a permanent spot in existence but its worth it if our type of life can be a permanent part of existence and be more then a flicker.
Well, I'm having a Hell of a time
enjoying Life as it were Paradise !!
Who cares? - Really! This moment is all there really is, don't you think? Past is gone - future is not yet here, so this is it! - Be yourself and Live Life Full Speed Ahead - One Inch At A Time.
Love - Light - Laughter
Crappy? Crappy? What kind of language is that? Crappy? I'm totally disillusioned! I had decided to proceed with my government funded gender reassignment surgery, I wanted to be you! Crappy? I'm going to have to reconsider my options! Crappy? Really?
what if your nice sometimes and crappy sometimes , would that be o.k lol just playing
No you don't have to die,
That is if you put to death the death in you.
Being nice sounds good. You get further with people if you offer them a smile rather than a frown.
Life can be hard and full of disappointment. If you can make your interests also other people's interests I think you have a better shot at your goals. Novelists may seem like lone rangers but they honestly don't make it on their own. They have editors, proof readers and publishers. They also have people who are kind enough to do some publicity for them and librarians happy to take their work and put it under the nose of the public. Artists are pretty much the same.
I want to work in with others, find mutual goals, tackle problems as part of a team and see where that gets me. In the past it hasn't been a bad strategy for a lot of things including feeling good about life. If you have people who WANT to see you succeed because they know you WANT them to succeed then you might just have something good going for you and them.
It often takes a woman to talk good sense to all.
Death is balanced wih Life.
One dies, another lives.
Life goes on this way.
As we get old, we should maybe detach ourselves from our own death and assume we're just approaching death.
This is an easy thing to say, but very hard to do. Even deep believers are attached to life like a limpet to a rock.
Immortality is sometimes associated to someone's deeds during life. Peter the apostle (and the other three), Aristotle, Plato, Shakespear, Descartes, Einstein, Bertrand Russel, are immortal amongst many others.
Often immortality is related to literature.
Maybe we should reconcile with the idea that we can free ourselves from death by what we leave behind for others. Our followers.
i think i will choose to be nice to people,because my bible tells me to love people around me.
can't i be nice and delusional instead of delusional and crappy?!
I respect your idea but the truth is that there is life after death. Whatever we do in our present life, determines our condition in the next world.
listen,i will tell you a mystery;we will not all sleep,but we will all be changed-in a flash,in a twinkling of an eye,at the last trumpet.for the trumpet will sound,the dead will be raised imperishable,and we will be changed.and the mortal with immortality.when the perishable has been clothed with the impreishable,and the mortal with immortality,then the saying will come true:death has been swallowed up in victory.where O death is your victory?where O death is your sting.the sting of death is sin,and the power of sin is the law.but thanks be to god !he gives us victory through our lord jesus christ.
not all of us will die but will be changed these body that we live in cannot go to heaven so the ones who are alive in christ when he returns will be changeed and the dead also
Life is hard and then you die. Ok, then what?
What do you mean what? You die, life is over. Thought that was easy to understand. Hmmm......?
What would make you think there was anything after death? Hmmm.....?
Truth there is life after death, the Bible and other holy books are not lying.
I told you before. Stay out of my conversations, unless you're talking to me.
This conversation wasn't between you and the person I was talking to. You should practice what you preach. And, stay out of other people's business.
In other words, leave me alone. Got it? I hope so. Wouldn't want another incident to occur like last time, we had this discussion. Have a great day!
Be nice to those who believe and I may leave you alone, got it. ?
You don't possess the intellect or right to pass judgement on my actions. So, go away. You are not an authority over me. So get lost! Did you not understand that the first time you were told?
Damn man, get a life.
You get lost I have a lot more right to be on a religious forum being a religious poet/ philosopher than you do. get it ?
I am a poet with a book ranked next to Bible and Qurans I do have a life, you get one.
But, to answer your question. It's actually unknown. So, that would conclude there is nothing after death.
That's a pretty scary take on life.
Why bother trying to decide who's interest you should be looking after seeing we are all going to die if that is all there is to life?
We all just have this one life that we break our backs trying to be nice and then nothing? Even the people who remember us for what we are or are not are all going to die eventually.
Do you really believe that the point of your existence is this one moment in time on Earth?
I would find it difficult to be anything but selfish if those were my beliefs.
I just don't get why people need the incentive of a reward or the threat of punishment in the afterlife (if it exists) in order to behave decently in this one.
I (a devoted atheist) absolutely do. Think of it this way: this is all you get, so ya gotta make the best of it!
If life was OK all the time I would be bored .You need hard times in order for you to appreciate the good ones !
I think that when we focus on the bad things too much and not fix um, it spawns more bad things.
Caint nobody take your happy... Ya gotta give it away or sell it.
There is no point worrying about such things as apparently god forgives all. So is it not the case that we will all go to heaven anyhow, so enjoy life, live it to the full, and spend all your dosh now.
consider this .both life and death not being what we decided it to be. you close your eyes .in the darkness a voice asks. are you ready? you answer yes as ready as one can be to die.the voice says back thats not where your going. are you ready to continue in living? if you want death you can stay here.if you want to live then follow me. now which will you chose?
That used to be my philosophy before I became a Christian.
Except, I used to say that "Life is B**CH and then you die." Sad thing, I really believed that!
After I became a Christian and began to understand God through the Bible I realize now that EVERYTHING has purpose in God's economy. There is no wasted suffering or wasted circumstances. My outlook on life has changed tremendously by the grace of God!
I am so sorry you feel as you do. You must have some very difficult circumstances in your life to feel as you do. I do hope that things change for you and you will have hope for life!
Hope you are having a splendid Thanksgiving and may you find hope.
What, even when you're talking about things like the Holocaust? If that's the case, then I wouldn't want to believe in your God. The implications of his/her/its existence would just be too frightening to contemplate.
Sorry but reading things like this just makes my blood boil.
So sorry you need to believe this stuff to make life bearable.
You must have a very, very empty life to think this is true against the obvious facts that show it is not. I hope you eventually come to your senses and learn to have a full life without this sort of irrational belief as a crutch to support your sad, meaningless existence.
I hope you had a wonderful thanksgiving and wish you a very, merry jesus's birthday next month.
lol, I'm gonna take a rather Buddhist stance on this and say that the "middle way" is often the best way:
"Just as the highest and the lowest notes are equally inaudible, so perhaps, is the greatest sense and the greatest nonsense equally unintelligible."
"If only I could throw away the urge to trace my patterns in your heart, I could really see you."
"For now we see through a glass, darkly"
Neil Sperling said:
Who cares? - Really! This moment is all there really is, don't you think? Past is gone - future is not yet here, so this is it! - Be yourself and Live Life Full Speed Ahead - One Inch At A Time.
Love - Light - Laughter
I agree...'Life is a mystery to be lived, not solved'.
This is a good philosophy, and not quite so dark as the "life is hell and then we die" type thinking.
It is better to be a good person, or try to be, then to be a bad person; I don't think the bad guys feel good or are happy. I think at least trying to be good has some happiness built-in.
If Mark or anyone else could prove to me there is no God or hereafter, I would still live as I do anyways. Without a final reward I would still do what I can to help others because then I can live with myself.
I have contemplated what I believe many times in my life, and I am ok with whether I am right or wrong. Probably why I do not try to convert anyone. But I am happy with my choice.
Life is too short to live it less than deliberately. What matters to you is what matters.
No need to believe in an afterlife to be a good citizen and help others.
Why do good when the same evil follows both those who do good and do evil?
If there is no afterlife then go flat out sinning, at least that makes sense on this side.
Yes but one will keep coming back till he learns that all is him and by being cruel to someone he is actually being cruel to himself.We are here to learn about love and unselfishness.
There is an afterlife have no doubt about it.
Also take note that there are some of those who will never see eternal Life for they are the Sons of Evil from the very beginning.
When they learn they will also merge with god as that is everyone's home .
Mohit, the evil one is totally ignorant,full of darkness and cannot learn anything and it's the same for his sons.
All comes from the Light or god , the biggest criminal is also god as god pervades everything. It was his desires he is burning out, god acts through everyone.
I was an atheist and would mock god , his prophets and religions .I was told by some spiritual people I am not ready and my time will come which me me get angry -ego and laugh even louder.
Then I gained enlightenment and have now become a poet spreading god knowledge.
Ok Mohit I understand that God is light.
And the devil is darkness, how is it then that darkness is found in the light?
Lucifer is the present satan, and though he come from the light of God, it is his flirting with darkness that resulting in this formation of an age of darkness and light.
His restoration is found in us men.
But I understand that everything within the Light has it's opposite in the dark.
This age is about separating the two light and darkness.
This is how I understand all things.
So you tell me how is it that you understand it.
Especially about this darkness being within light.
You guys are hilarious, you should hear you from here!
Agreed. Being a good person, or being kind and thoughtful to others is something we either decide to be, or in some cases something we just are by nature. To me, if the only reason you do anything good in this world is because you think someone is watching and going to send you to hell if He he doesn't like what you've done - then that's hypocrisy; and you just don't measure up in the "good department" as well as someone who is good/does good even without thinking someone is watching. If you give food to some family you know needs it, it should come from your own empathy and saying, "I know I'd feel if I my children were hungry. It's not as good (in my opinion) if you give them food because you think you'll be getting "heaven points".
Lisa will you not recognise the hypocrisy in yourself also?
Why serve Good when he is going to reward you with evil?
Is then Good evil?
Are you saying one should honor Good in Spirit but dishonor Him with the Lips.
How long are you going to be ignorant of this Fact.
That God is...
in and around you? And
And you cannot serve...
Except by truth?
Also in you and around you.
And TRUTH is...
the only begotten son of
For Truth is the Christ.
Life? I kinda like Jimmy Buffett's take on it: some of it's magic; some of it's tragic.
THE WAY OF A TRANSGRESSOR IS HARD! ARE YOU A TRANSGRESSOR?
Yes, life is hard and we can not controll all of the hardships we have to face..and yes, we die
L:ife is what you make of it, somedays you just gotta free yourself, forget the hard stuff and have a great day
not to be argumentative, but it IS just after 7 am here and I'm feeling a little grumpy about having to go to work while the rest of my family snoozes blissfully...but why do we need proof? That is the whole thing. Don't need proof here and I don't need to prove anything to anybody. I know what I feel and thats it. Its a great feeling, very freeing. I hope you experience it someday. Have a great day all...
What is good for you, maybe it's not good for me.
Haven't you thought about that?
I'm very happy with what I feel. Because I feel. Maybe you don't know that ?
I wouldn't impose my feelings to you, saying they're great!
Have a nice day !
yikes, i guess your kinda cranky too huh? im not trying to impose anything on you, did you read my post wrong? all i said is i don't need proof.
Awww, I wouldn't worry about it megs...I think some are just born extra sensitive, lol...
I agree with you 100%, by the way...I don't need proof, or feel the need to prove anything, either.
I read your post.
What about your feelings being great ,and hoping I could experience them ?
thanks for the laughs !
Life isn't hard. It is ease and peace. It is what we make of it.
Life isn't hard?
No, it is not hard. People make their own life hard.
Time is relative...what is a second to one may be an eternity to another.
To be concerned about "seeding" the Universe is moot as we are already "seeded" here by another mode, be it evolution, creation, or "planted" by another life-form.
In most life forms the drive is reproduction in one way or another to replicate oneself.
I feel that God has been "invented" because of mans inability to explain the natural order, so someone must have created it. Orrr man being unable to accept the inevitableness of death and oblivion. So man created God and a saviour because it can't be "all there is."
An opinion posited by H.G. Wells in his Outline of History, Wells stated that God evolved through primitive man's need for a leader who knew where the game was, where the water was, what plants were usable etc. etc. One day this old fellow dies, so now what should the tribe do? He had to continue on in the ways of the Old Man who was wise and by and by the Old Man became a legend, eventually gaining a sort of deity-like reality.
If one investigates the ancient religions he must be struck by the similarities between Egyptian beliefs and Christian/Jewish tradition. Egyptians had a God, Mother of God and Son of God. It is not such a great stretch to imagine that the Jews absorbed much of this while in Egypt and even the Monotheism of the cult of Ammon/Amun. The final item to mention here is their(Egypians and other primitive peoples) veneration of the Sun...Guys without the sun, we are nothing. It is giver of life.
Finally the Ten Commandments. Without this moral guide we would be wild men. Given by God? Well they are the wisdom of ages learned through thousands of years experiences that certain moral laws must be abided by for the survival of the tribe.
Obviously there is much here between each statement. One needs to read read read and explore history.
You have no more right than anyone else Mohit.
You claim to be spiritual but you are arrogant and closed minded. Must be hard for you, living this lie.
I like..."Life was meant to be EASY! It's just that Adam and Eve screwed it (all) up".
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