If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6

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   SwordofManticorEposted 12 years ago

   If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)
   
   Because if He made a hell for sinners, He obviously has no love for them.

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   CertifiedHandyposted 12 years ago

   God is Love. God ploves everybody, but He doesn't love everything and sin is one of those things. God loves us so much He gave us total control over our destinies through free will; we can choose either to reject or accept Him. Hell was never intended for people but people choose hell when they reject God.Hell was intended for Lucifer and the fallen angels. To pass judgement on God without knowing Him is foolish. I suggest you find someone who knows Him, not doctrine, or scripture but someone who knows Him intimately... His In Service

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Eph1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
      This refutes your free will belief, and what you said about hell and lucifer doesnt add up.

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      Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Taken out of context. This is the confirming of the apostles and their calling unto Himself as Jesus if anything it confirms His love of the Lost of which we all are here in this world all guilty and fallen short of the Glory without GODs Grace.

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It is because you read scripture in its context, that alone makes you a literalist.

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      Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That we all should do as not to keep things within their place they could be made to read as One would will them to 1. Adherence to the explicit sense of a given text or doctrine.
      2. Literal portrayal; realism.

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      And who was the genious who wrote that stupidity? Because Christ says otherwise in John 6:63

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      Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I have not the time to read and discern for you the whole Bible SOM how do you not Know the difference is spiritual learning and the other physical bread for their flesh. One must keep to the text stop bouncing all over teach do not confound it

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The answer to your question is simple. Test the spirit of any answer, and if the end result is love. You have found it.

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      Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Love in our realm comes in many forms you are in need of tuff love for sure as you turn and rend all who try and help answer your question which you have deemed a desire to know the answer. When already you have chosen one for yourself  and twist all

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Love in my answer may come in many forms, but I still wait to find love in yours.

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       Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Because you have not looked for it you have played advocate to the devil and his proxies I'd have more faith in the lost books than Z N his flying machines I am not a space nut I think you learn way 2 far in the Universal beliefs of Z as did the Jews

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       CertifiedHandyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       @sword not everyone is "predestined" but that doesn't mean you can't accept the free gift of salvation. This scripture doesn't refute free will, it supports it.

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       SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       You are full of it now, and dont make sense. What does scripture say about confusion.

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   graceinusposted 12 years ago

   If God did not love all of mankind, then His son's death on the cross served no purpose.

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   Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years ago

   SOM again here you are playing the devils advocate I am beginning to question your reasoning in purposing such nonsensical questionings.  These verses I be live come from the teaching of the Be attitudes. which are to show the unfavored lives that were being lead by the men of old falsely teaching and preaching the scriptures and the prophets words.  And their gains by doing so and how they all shall come to naught.
   
   People all truly hung up and stumble from the misguided teachings of the hell and brimstone teachers of the same type of false teachers of the last few centuries. Much liken to the new aged rapture teachers fear is replaced by relief.  Firstly hell is a choice and not a punishment. Hell is an end choice liken to the garbage pit and the grave where things are burnt up and forgotten Yes eternally forgotten never to be remembered by GOD our Father. GOD does not throw anything or anyone away because He has made them for a purpose.
   
   When people do not understand the story they are lost! Wholly lost to the meanings of the teachings. GOD so loved the world that sent His only begotten Son  What does this mean? GOD came to us as we are is what this statement means There is only One GOD and there can only be One GOD.
   
   The Hell you speak of was created of a freewill choice by Lucifer now called Satan because GOD has found no truth left within him. Hell is nothing more than the separation of one's self from GOD the Father and the Creator of All things seen and unseen. GOD has UN failing and Un dying love for HIS creation and creations of which we all are. All souls belong to GOD. To do as HE will. NO he has not made us for to suffer eternal Damnation Just because He is an eternal Being.
   
   This is the designs of a lyre and a thief a deceiver. The story told to little children to confuse and keep at bay the love of the children from their true Father. GOD is not at war with His Children But is in Fact at war with the Sickness that one of His son's has created within HIS Kingdom The Failure to Repent and see the Father for what He IS Life Un ending. Satan the former Lucifer the one who Guarded the Mercy Seat has Cause an Infection to Come about and disallows the healing to be brought about.
   
   So in deeds and words has chosen to make ill all that he can for his failure to be come as GOD the Father in fact to take Father's Place and Role as Creator, Provider, and Protector.
   
   You say he has no Love I say HE has Un dying Love and has showed all So!

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      LOL. yeah I have been accused of worse things by you evangeilicals. I know that hell is just a church made myth, but what makes your hell belief truth and the hell fire teachers false? As for seperation from God in hell, read Psalms 139:8 KJV.

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      Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In so lies this the sickness I refer to. GOD is Life Un ending He is the First and He will be the Last. There is Only one who can cause The separation to come about and remain. And This is GOD. Satan's Lake of Fire is the Truth of GOD.

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Oh give me a break. You are starting to sound like an RC theologian. Do you even have a clue as to what satan truly is?

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      Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Oh please don't tell me its mans ego I am so tried of such fact baseness that it make me want to puke. Satan is exactly what I have so often described. A Lost soul who refuses to repent nothing more nothing less.

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No, it is not man's ego, but please dont tell it is some entity. It is the desires of the flesh, and satan (advasary) is not some fallen angel either. If you seek truth, you need to first eras everthing taught to you by the religious system.

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      Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What is the desire of the flesh if it is not ones own Ego Satan Birth Ego he said I will be as the Most High I will ascend to greater Heights  Satan was not the one who Desired this but Lucifer

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I cant believe you fell for the lucifer myth. I cant even continue this discussion because of your belief system. This whole entity thing is tattood in your mind, and you leave no chance to allow yourself the possibility of being wrong.

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      Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      SOM I now know you for who you are an instigator which in olden days men called swine there fore they would stop their teachings of the story and of the scriptures of which you have much confusion too you come off as a person seeking knowledge and th

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I like to stur the pot abit but dont think for a moment that I didnt notice you calling me a swine. By my fathers grace, I have helped free others from the beliefs of foolish theologians and people like you who must have an answer for every question.

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       Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       In olden days we would both have no doubtfully have been executed by the little we have shared here yes I am taken in by the Lucifer story as I have yet to hear a better explained and documented case as I believe that all others are fallen angels

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       calynbanaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Som be careful about cherry picking your theology. Look into the verses that use apoleian or words with the root.

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       SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Last chance caly, if you accuse me again of cherry picking or twisting scripture I will delete your posts. I could just as easily accuse a hell wisher the same.

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       calynbanaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Not without a reason. I am not criticizing you, I am encouraging you to continue learning about this faith and not settling on a set of beliefs that can be made to work with some verses but directly contradicts others. We both must keep learning.

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       SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Accusing anyone of cherry pick does not give anyone encouragement, it is offensive. This is one thing I will not do.

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   calynbanaposted 12 years ago

   God loves everybody whether they love him or not. Unless you are referring to the God portrayed by the Qur'an where the opposite is quite true. He did not make "Hell" for sinners. He made it (though not quite our conception of it) for Satan and his angels. Our conception of Hell as endless suffering in eternal flames seems flawed. I am not sure if that is what is meant by the early church. I think that the references to a second death, destruction of the soul, and eternal life may refer more to a complete destruction of those who do not choose to be with God. Those who want to be with God receive the gift of grace and  eternal life and those who choose to reject His gift simply die and cease to exist. But that is just speculation, I am not putting it forth as fact. I think that the teachings on Hell in the Bible are not very clear. What is clear is that we need to spread the good news. We need to teach people whatever we can about Jesus, and we need to repent and be baptized. Above all that, what is clear is that we need to love God, and love other people, but we can only do that because He loved us first.

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   lone77starposted 12 years ago

   And you obviously have no understanding.
   
   Where does it say that God created Hell? Could it be that sinners created it themselves?
   
   And sinners are condemned to Hell not by God, but by their decisions. Just as a human is condemned by their decision to step off of a tall building. They go "splat" on the pavement, not because God hates them, but because they decided to fly in the face of God's laws (which include gravity and solidity of matter).
   
   God loves all of His children, but He is NOT Homo sapiens. Those who refuse to wake up will be stuck in this physical existence, tied to human bodies as long as humanity exists. And when the Earth becomes a molten lake of liquid rock with the burgeoning sun, there won't be any bodies for those lost souls.
   
   It's a matter of choice.
   
   Forty-two years ago, I discovered what it means to wake up, spiritually. And it took me this long to figure out what it all meant.
   
   For a few brief moments, I was no longer trapped in this physical body, dependent upon its physical perception in order to see. I could see without the use of physical eyes. My physical body was nearby, but I was no longer so attached to it. No drugs, no trauma, no surgery. I was receiving spiritual counseling. And then I remembered only recently that the counseling had to do with selflessly giving of myself to others -- helping them, loving them. Something in that concept broke the bonds that had kept me in darkness -- that had kept me incapable of seeing except through these meager, human eyes.
   
   Yes, God loves us all, including Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and the pedophile priest. Their actions and attitudes distract them from the rescue mission. They may not make it because they care for only earthly things. But it's their decision.
   
   Even I may not make it. The path is that narrow. We have to let go of all excess baggage, simply because it won't fit in a place where physical things are too "fat." That includes everything to do with ego. And we have treated ego as if it were our true selves for so long. I can give up hamburgers, ice cream and sex, but ego is tough to let go of.

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So lonestar, are you now the online armchair bully that has the answes for all questions. You are more than welcome to not join in the discussion in the future my friend.

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   Ceegenposted 12 years ago

   And what would you say if God never punished sinners? What would you say if murderers and child molesters just got a free pass to get into heaven, no work required on their end?
   
   Wouldn't that seem kind of pointless to just follow the rules, then? Wouldn't there be more stealing from and killing each other going on? Wouldn't it make you angry that evil people get a free pass to a reward you worked your whole life for?
   
   I love my brother very much, even though he is very lazy. I can't make him work, but I can't stop loving him because he is flesh and blood. He's family. I love him regardless of his faults, though I wish he would do better with his life.
   
   I know God feels the same way about sinners, as I do about my brother: We were made in His image *and* likeness. God has emotions, too, and it makes Him angry that we're so self-serving and evil. So all that talk of hell is pointless if you just first and foremost love God (Deuteronomy 6:5), and secondly love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18), because the rest will follow. It's easy to be good if you love. You have nothing to worry about if you just listen to God, instead of trying to find loopholes with His laws.
   
   But, it's a choice.
   
   "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." - Proverbs 3:5 (KJV).

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I would have no problem with all being with our Father, but I sense a hint of jeulousy in your question. Like "It's not fair" that all are saved, am I right?

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      Ceegenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No. Don't read into what isn't there. Please.
      
      The angels in heaven rejoice when a sinner turns from their wicked ways, and so do I!

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Amen brother.

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   Get Thin for Goodposted 12 years ago

   Where do you read that God only loves those who love Him? That is not true. He loves every single person because He created them.
   
   He created hell for Satan and his demons, not for people. But if people choose Satan over God (and many do because you either choose God or Satan), then sadly those people will join Satan and his demons in hell.
   
   God even loves Satanists. He is merciful and kind and good. It is us who make the bad choices.
   
   Hope that helps.

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No it doesnt help because it makes no sense.Why does he send them to a place not made for them?

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      Get Thin for Goodposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I know it can be hard to understand. He sends them there to be with Satan and the demons because ultimately, that's who they have chosen to be with because they have rejected God. I really hope that helps.

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Again no it does not help. If He is all forgiving and merciful, why did He create those He knew would be there in the first place, and why does He tell us to love, bless and forgive our enemies unconditionally when He can't?

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      CertifiedHandyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      @sword God doesn't send people to Hell. They choose to go when they deny Jesus Christ and the salvation that He offers.

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      SwordofManticorEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If God created hell, He sends them there for His purpose and pleasure.

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      Get Thin for Goodposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Read this:
      
      When we worship Jesus - He is God, He closes His eyes slowly, leans His head back, and breathes deeply. He starts to smile and is flooded with emotion. He is soon overwhelmed and filled with love. He begins to weep with love

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      Sinbadsailormanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      GOD Didn't create the separation those who refused to Repent Did and they are the ones who enforce and keep It alive Hell will past after Judgment for it is not eternal

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