Why do the pharisees who call themselves Christians hate the thought of Universal salvation?
I have not seen such hate and spamming against this belief anywhere else other than on these hubs? They desire the hell preaching teachers over the beautiful doctrine of absolute love, forgiveness and mercy. God's plan will previal.
Are you sure that is what is happening here? Where are the other two comments? I don't think anybody hates the thought of Universal Salvation. I would absolutely love for it to be true.
However, as a Christian I must believe Jesus when he says that not everyone will be seeing the kingdom of Heaven. As a Christian I cannot believe that my Lord would lie, nor could I believe that the early Christians would lie. If everybody was to be saved, then there would be no reason to evangelize. We could all just do whatever we want with no regard to laws God set in place. We would all see paradise. It sounds wonderful, and terrifying. But it isn't true. Being a Christian is about pursuing the truth, pursuing a Christ like life.
That means accepting the truth even when it doesn't satisfy our emotional desires. I want Universal Salvation, that is why I evangelize, but that doesn't change what Jesus said will happen.
The gate is narrow.
The are from J. He is banned from both my hubs and questions. The kingdom of God is in us and around us, not heaven, and if you say that hell is the truth again, you need no longer visit my posts. It is about discussion and seeking the truth.
If you are truly seeking discussion and truth then you will not forbid opposing views from being expressed. I want to explore the idea as brothers and sisters in Christ, not as enemies. We should be able to discuss freely without this hostility.
J spams my questions and has insulted me. We both agreed to not post comments on each others posts and he breaks this truce every time. He has told me that HE knows the truth and I am confussed. That ended it for me.
I don't know exactly what went down between you and J, it is not my business. That is for you two to work out. I was responding more to your statement " if you say that hell is the truth again, you need no longer visit my posts"
The word truth is so often abbused by those who are arrorgant to claim to know it and if anyone claims they know it wether hell or universal salvation, they become dogmatic and are not welcome on my hubs or question.
SoM, you do realize the only "arrogance" ever shown on ANY of these questions and hubs is from YOU, don't you?Jesus doesn't seem to be the one steering you.It seems more to be your inability to cope with facts that are presented over and over again.
I dont see the arrogance you think you see, I do notice my determination to combat the belief of the hell doctrine.
Besides, you dont see me using caps to get my point across like some do. But for you sister, I will be nicer in the future.
I appreciate the sentiment.:-) I use caps due to having no way to use italics for these comment.If a nonbeliever were to view this question in search of answers, I unfortunately think they would leave more confused than when they entered.
Can you blame the nonbeliever, there is so much confussion between the thousands of denominations it is almost embarresing.
Sry, I didn't mean that to sound like I would blame a nonbeliever.I agree that it is disgraceful all of the butting heads over the same God.Look up Westboro Baptist Church if you wanna see some SICK beliefs.I find it sad.Their kids even join in..
I agree with calynbana. The words of Jesus are clear. Hell is real.
Too bad you can't listen to an opposing belief, but instead feel the need to disallow comments that disagree with your position. How is that "about discussion and seeking the truth"? Your position on discussion is hypocrisy if you deny comments that disagree with yours.
That is because you want hell to exist, I call it hell wishing with a molech spirit. Btw, Christ never once uttered the word hell, neither did Paul.
Jesus never uttered the word 'love' either. We translate Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic into 'love', 'hell', etc.
If there is no hell, what are we being saved from? Why did Jesus die?
I could tell you the answer, but why waste my time. You dont want to believe it, because you have made your choice.
You should at least share your thoughts. He won't be asking questions if his mind is close to suggestions.
Normally I would, but I know a determined hell believer when I see one friend, and his mind is closed to anything outside his belief system.
I really want to know, by your belief system, what Jesus saves us from.
I am not going to tell you. You have already agreed to another determined hell believers answer. According to you, the words of Christ are clear to you.
Your evasiveness forces me to the conclusion that you have no answer.
A clever responce, but to be expected from a sunday school student.
SoM I honestly think you need to check yourself. Your behavior is not in line with your expectations. If you want to have a discussion in which we seek the truth then you need to be open minded to other people views, and willing to explore them
When comments and discussion conveniently disappear, all that is left is propaganda.
caly, I have already told you to feel free not to post again.
I have chosen to continue to post. Your attitude is off putting but it is not enough to drive me away. I want to have a discussion with you, but I will not say what you want to hear, I am going to say what needs to be said.
then tell me what your take of the rich man and lazerus is in its context? You believe in it, so plz do tell.
I believe that like the other parables of Jesus it is meant to be symbolic, not a literal account of heaven and hell. The rich man represents the pharisees, and Lazarus represents the gentiles. There is more but due to the space limit I may need ahub
You are close, the rich man is Judah and Lazerus is symbolic for the gentile nations. Eventually they lose the blessings and their religion, and the new age begins as a blessing for all as promised to Abraham.
Interesting take on it. You know, the beauty of this is that no one can TRULY know what Jesus parables were about. We can only speculate based off of what others have said.
Why do Christians argue with different Christians views when the design of the religion is open to question and thought and each human should have their own idea? That is the question you really should be asking yourself and anyone else arguing on this question that believes.
Theologic discussion is healthy. The process refines argument and strengthens faith.
Some people just like to "stir the stew"...I try not to "argue" but these debates can sometimes get heated. My reason for joining in is I like to try to understand why others believe what they do.
Universal Salvation strikes at the very salvation that comes only through Jesus Christ. "Salvation" is guaranteed regardless of what you do or believe, so don't fret it... you can't do anything to lose out on salvation." There is no personal choice. If universal salvation is true, then there is no real need to even preach the Gospel because everyone will be saved in spite of not preaching it.
Unfortunately, many who present this belief system can't, or won't give an answer that doesn't try to twist words and definitions. Universal salvation says that it isn't necessary to convince anyone of anything because eventually all will be saved, and it doesn't really matter, in the big picture, what someone believes or does now.
This doctrine can spiritually damage every approach toward the true God that exists.
Hell believers cannot answer the simple question as to how they can call god merciful for creating beings knowing in full advance their eternal doom.
In the beginning, God created man to be perfect, and in perfect relationship with Him. Man messed that up, not God. God's mercy is seen by sending Jesus to take the punishment for the sin of each person, providing the only way to an eternity with Him
I will tell you why they hate the thought of universal salvation. Because it is not fair. They worked hard living holy when they could of womanized, get drunk and party without worries. It goes even deeper than that, they see scripture based on their carnal desires. The desire hell. Not for themselves but for their enemies. Very few will admit it, but it is what it is. They need a hell so their enemies will get what they deserve and let God do their dirty work for them. These Christians and their belief system is vile beyond belief, because if there is a hell, it is they who should go there and experience just 1 min in their own hell. They will learn fast enough the love for their enemies and how fast that love will grow, because they then would not put such a punishment on their worst enemy.
Unbelievers are not our enemies; sin is our enemy. I agree that love is the way to reach the sinner. But God's justice includes a path to salvation- through Jesus. Those who choose to reject Jesus are allowed to, and suffer the result.
That is exactly my point. you are no different than the rest of the hell believers. Your problem about love is, is that you have no idea what it can do. you're just another church folk.
Question: do you support folks like Brian McLaren, Spencer Burke and Doug Pagitt?
I know these three men, why is it important for you to know? I may not believe as them, but they were smart enough to leave your religiouse system. And for that I give them all a thumbs up.
Why should I cast pearls? You cant understand its spiritual meaning and so why should I waste my time for you.
The Emergent Church movement and these men promote a mystical Jesus. They have taken on the image of the beast.
LOL, you may as well call yourself a catholic nails
There is the elementary school hallway tactics, or backing up what you say with substance. I have researched this movement quite extensively; therefore, I do not believe blowing smoke gets anyone anywhere. Write a hub that addresses these questions.
Why so much anger in you? Very sad.
I no longer have time for this. You have chosen to ignore Jesus' warnings to all mankind. Be well.
Oh poor you nails, I hurt your feelings. The difference between their church and yours is that they would not shut the doors, while yours would escort me out as fast and quite as possible. Personally, I dont worship with pagan snake charmers.
Salvation implies inner fulfillment, equanimty. peace or God's inner love. It depicts a celestial paradise, an unshakeable and tranquil place to be.
The pharisee is as much my God-self as he is yours. Hate salvation? No.
I understand you to speak from a platform depicting them as representing this fiery person above. But nevertheless, they are still God's children and they believe in happiness. Even if it's their own or their children's, it is still a start on the way to salvation or oneness with God.
What do you consider "universal"? Jesus many a time says that it is those that repent and follow Him are those who receive everlasting life. He even urges us to open up to God and ASK.."ask and it will be given to you". I just want to know how you come to base your faith on a concept of not having to repent when the only verses you can present are taken out of context or slivers to a larger purpose of the chapter, all ultimately fall back to the fact that we NEED Jesus. YOU choose to believe what you do about our salvation, as I believe what I do. You have been given no more "divine power" than I have been given to discern which of us is right. But that doesn't matter! What matters is God DOES love us and He WANTS us saved!
Personally, I have NEVER come across anyone that believes there is a hell think bad of God. I have never questioned God's love for me even though I have grown up knowing there are consequences for not believing Christ is our savior. AND it's not my place and I have given myself no authority whatsoever to say ANYONE is going to hell. No one can truly know that but God. He is the Great Judge and all will come before Him on Judgment Day. All we can do is spread God's love through Christ's message and lead others to Christ through our desire to be like Him. God never promised us tomorrow and He never promised us an easy life. We must walk by faith that God knows what He's doing and He knows our souls.
And look, SoM. I know you disagree with my belief and believe me to be a "pharisee" but that won't stop me from expressing my testimony on the matter. As I hope you stand strong in your faith. I truly believe that God knows our hearts and souls and I do not think whether or not we believe there is a hell is going to matter on Judgment Day because we will be judged according to our sins. I actually believe one of the verses you had posted..oh it was to another question you had posted...but anyway, one of them did give me the impression not necessarily a hell, but a judgment that would decide our "placement" or rank in heaven. I'll have to go back through and look again, but it never hurts to see things from someone else's perspective. Have a good day (even through heated debates). :-)
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