Why do people continue to believe that satan is a fallen angel?

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   celafoeposted 11 years ago

   Why do people continue to believe that satan is a fallen angel?
   
   Why do people continue to believe that satan is a fallen angel when the scriptures they use are taken out of context and do not refer to him?  Isaiah 14  is about the king of babylon, see vs 4- EZE 28 is about the king of Tyre, see vse 11. also 2 peter 2vs 4 and jude 6 say all angels that left their habitation (home) are in chains til judgement day.   The verse in rev has not happened yet?  and there is no scripture about an angel rebelling.

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   dianetrotterposted 11 years ago

   Wow Celafoe!  You’re trying to get us to have a Bible study here.  I’m pretty busy these days but stopped to research this.  It’s like having a piece of a map.  What I came up with quickly ..not a theologian.
   Ezekiel 28:12-14  - specifically 14a “14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth.”
   2 corinthinas 11:14  “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”
   Ephesians 6:12 rules out flesh and blood 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.’
   
   2 Peter 2:4  For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment

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      dianetrotterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Had I read your whole question, I wouldn't haven't cited these ... already covered.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Diane, check the verses I mentioned.  and tell me what you see then, thanks

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      dianetrotterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Cela, I referenced several of those passages.  Luke 10:18 says 'I  beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."  What do you think "satan" refers to?

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Why in the world would people not consider these metaphors? I mean be reasonable in interpretation. Truth is beautiful. But literal translation is not truth seeking. These are concepts of the time written for people of the time. Think Internet!

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      specific verses I referenced show these verses are not talking about satan  Isiaih is talking about the king of babylon and eze about the king of tyre -- ephes goes with col 1 vs 15-18  - 2 peter shows  fallen angels in chains til judgement

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      Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Diane, as I understand it 'Anointed Cherub' is a term used to mock the king; Ephesus 6:12 can also be read as talking about the Roman Empire; and 2 Pet was not written by Peter and takes ideas from the discredited Book of Enoch.

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   Ericdierkerposted 11 years ago

   I like all the imagery of falling angels and lightening bolts and hell fire and brimstone and lakes of fire and a place down below. And horrible gnashing of teeth and eternal hell. And best of all a ruler with all red body and pitch fork and weird tail.
   Excorcisisms and and earthquakes that swallow us.
   
   We need to be less literal and more in tune with love. People fall. People fail. Angels must also fall and fail.
   
   Repurcussions are this: Live with it, die with and stay with it. Your choice as to what that is. Depictions, drawings, ceilings and novels do not change this truth.
   I do not know a soul that believes concepts of the Red devil. Such foolishness.

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      Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely, It means they fall from grace as do we all. They leave home. Prodigal son and such. Israelites outside of their promised land. A Fall. Me when I reject or act wrongful.

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   Michael-Milecposted 11 years ago

   Best effort to answer this question came to me in an idea: if someone would take time to ask a onehundred-thousand people , we may get the answer. Why do they believe and what do they believe of the Satan's origin. Rest of the informations obtained in the Scriptures - most of your know, having own opinion/ interpretation or belief of. The one thing is evident, God the Creator dealt with Serpent/Satan back there  in the Garden. The Jesus of Nazarwth, the Anointed One has faced the evil-one , the accuser, slandered, deceiver, and  evil spirits in actions are known to every Child of God as the opposite forces to the kingdom of God in progress.

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   Deborah Sextonposted 11 years ago

   No scripture about angels rebelling?
   
   Evil angels
   Psalm 78:49
   He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
   
   The Devil's angels
   Matthew 25:41
   Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
   
   Angels that sinned
   2 Peter 2:4
   For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
   
   The dragon (devil) and his angels fought against Michael and his angels
   Revelation 12:7
   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
   
   The dragon (serpent, devil) and his angels were cast out into the earth
   Revelation 12:9
   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      ds - rev 12 has not yet occurred ,MT The devil and his angels , his demons are his angels.  2peter2vs 4 they are in chains until the judgement (i will concede the sinned as it varies and can be a valid term) psalm refers to demons, satans angels

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      Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      In 1 Kings 22:19-23 and 2 Chron 18:17-22, God sends a lying spirit/evil to speak from the mouths of the false prophets in order to deceive the king. There are no evil angels. Revelation was argued over for 300 years before being accepted.

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      celafoeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      DH-- poor choice of words on my part.  I did not mean demons were ever angels, i dont believe that, demons are to satan as angels are to God  that is what i was trying to convey

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      Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I know what the T'anakh (Jewish Bible) says in Hebrew and it is speaking of angels and not men or anything else. Even the English bible is clear that the devil has his angels

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      Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Deborah, I am so surprised that you a Jewess would accept the myth that one a devil exists, and two he has angels. Please quote from the Hebrew Scriptures to support your position.

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      Deborah Sextonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      DH
      celafoe, said there was no scripture to support, the devil being an angel. I am simply interpreting scripture and it does not reflect nor dispute my beliefs. I have stated this in many of my hubs because I have been accused of believing Yahshua wa

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   Disappearingheadposted 11 years ago

   I do not believe there is any evidence for a fallen angel called Satan. It's a completely alien belief in Judaism and neither this myth nor demons can be found in the Old Testament. So either these things are simply untrue or God forgot to tell anyone about them for 4000 years.
   
   By Jesus time demons and an evil arch fiend called Satan found their way into cultural superstitions of the day as they had no other explanation for disease, sickness, death, or bad stuff happening in the World. When atheists today ask why if there is a God does so much evil happen, the answer in Jesus time was to attribute it to a satan character. The early Church was not immune to these popularised superstitions and simply assumed them to have some validity.
   
   2 Peter was not written by Peter but some unknown author who's reliability is also unknown. Both he and Jude took their inspiration for angels in chains from the discredited Book of Enoch which is full of made up fantastical ideas. If we choose to believe these things we may as well believe in the Greek and Roman mythological tales about gods, men, flying horses, and ugly women with snake hair turning people to stone.
   
   Revelation has been popularly attributed to John the apostle but there is no evidence for this and the writing style is different to the John letters. We don't know who this John was and like 2 Peter his reliability is unknown. It was allegedly written in the 1st century but it took 300 years of arguing over before being controversially added to the canon. Martin Luther for one refused to believe it was scripture. It contains Babylonian astrology; the four living creatures. The lion one is Leo, the ox one is Taurus, the man one is Aquarius, and the eagle one is Scorpio (they saw an eagle in the constellation pattern where we see a scorpion). These four constellations are at four opposing sides of the sky and the zodiac. Check it out. John believing in only one God interprets the constellations as angels surrounding the centre of heaven; the Pole Star. Thus Revelation cannot be used as evidence for fallen angels or Satan.
   
   The four gospels are not first hand reportage accounts. Mark was the first and written in Rome 30 years later based upon the collective memories of the early church. The others were derived from Mark later. Thus we don't actually know what Jesus said - except by blind faith.
   
   The Hebrew Scriptures make no mention of fallen angels or angels in chains, so ask yourself where do these ideas come from?

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   Larry Wallposted 11 years ago

   I am not going to answer the question directly because obviously everyone is more knowledgeable about the Bible than me. I will only say, if you look hard enough in the Bible you will find a scripture, if taken out-of-context that will support your point of view.
   
   I believe Satan, the Devil, whatever you want to call him is real. For a long time I wondered how he could allegedly do the same things as God, then I learned that he was a messenger who carried a message to those of little faith tempting or leading them to do evil things. This is my opinion based on my reading of the Bible over 50 years--never read it all the way through from beginning to end, because there really is no reason too, since it is not written in a chronological order and since it was not written in any single century, decade or year and not my any single person. Thus, you can find something to support your view and you may be right, but no one is right all the time. I harbor no offense to anyone and their belief's. I just sense there are a lot of searching of online Bibles looking for verses that will support or oppose the topic of the day. If I have offended anyone, I apologize now. I accuse no one. I only offer an observation.

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      dianetrotterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Couldn't have said it better myself Larry!

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