Evil spirits and Fallen Ones

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   eaglecreekposted 12 years ago

   In 1 Samuel 18 it tells us The Lord sent an evil spirit to torment Saul. What was this evil spirit?
   
   In Genesis 6:4 it tells us of Nephilim. The ancient Hebrews translate this as giants and fallen ones. They were known as “heroes of old”. What were these? Am I the only one that believes they could be the foundation of the ancient Greek religion?

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      kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You are not the only one and you are exactly right.
      The zeal to appear wise, you  strive to make another appear foolish...
      
      Not realizing that you put yourself in exactly the same boat as he. I am talking about those who go out of their way to debunking religion and their writings.
      
      God has taken responsibility for all things that happen on the earth... Thus to say that an evil spirit was sent is true.... But not quite if you understand the context.
      
      Truth has been given into this world, and when truth is not see a lie will take its place...this lie is know as the spirit of evil and it come to a person depending of the desires of his heart..  If he desires truth he will find it....if not he will recieves according to the desire that supplant the desire for truth.
      
      But it is by God given  Truth any other desires are known to begin with.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This is the thing about the OT, no demons or rebellious entities (aka Satan) are mentioned. Even the 'evil' spirits are willingly operating under God's complete authority. I think that in this case 'evil' does not denote an evil nature but an angel sent by God to carry out an 'evil' action. Although that action was not evil from God's point of view, but from Saul's point of view was a harsh punishment.
      
      The Nephilim cannot have been human/angel hybrids as is often believed or may have been believed by the Genesis author. Angels are not material beings so have no DNA, and I doubt they have penises either. It seems to me to be more likely that the Sons of God were faithful descendants of Seth, and the Daughters of Men were descendants of Cain who was exiled from God's presence.
      
      However, I suspect that this account was based on folklore and the author of Genesis wrote down what he believed to have happened.

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      Civil War Bobposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      EC...the evil spirit was exactly that...probably along the lines of what happened at the beginning of the book of Job after God talked with Satan.
      I have 3 hubs, "Biblical Giants Built Stonehenge" that you might want to look at...short story, Adam and Eve could have been giants and after the flood, we're the Hobbits, so to speak.

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         eaglecreekposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Bob- There are many things in the bible that may seem confusing to many. They may even appear to be contradictions, but they are not. The bible is unlike any book. Much of the knowledge is not available to the beginner, it has to be unlocked through years of study and service. I have spent many years studying and have only scratched the surface.
         Interesting that in the past, scholars used science and technology to disprove the bible, now with new discoveries they prove many storied in the bible; the discoveries of ancient giants, cities that existed when cities were not supposed to exist, people in the UK long before the Celts.

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   cryptidposted 12 years ago

   You might be the only one who believes that, but it sure doesn't make you wrong.  I do sometimes wonder if perhaps a veil had fallen at some point in the past, marking a  separation between ancient religions and modern religions. In modern times we tend to see the old religions as ridiculous and whimsical, but the thing to remember is that, to the ancient Greeks, their Gods were every bit as real as any deity worshiped today.  May the passages you are citing refer to those Gods?  Could be.  Very interesting to consider indeed, if I get your meaning.

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      eaglecreekposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      yes, they had complete faith that their gods were real, another thing people need to consider is the fact that the ancient Greeks were not simple minded fools. They lived in a great age of enlightenment and intellectual thinking. They were very wise. One may refuse to believe their religion was real but logical thinking leads you to no other conclusion that the inspiration for their religious foundation was real.

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3. 57

   Eric L. Andrewsposted 12 years ago

   Great question and comments.  I believe that all evil spirits, or demons, are from the original casting out of some of the angels, along with Satan, from heaven when they plotted to overthrow God.  The nephilim have fascinated me for years.  They are mentioned in pre-flood Genesis, as you said, and also in Numbers 13:33 (NIV Bible).  The Book of Enoch was written completely around his studying of the fallen angels, as Enoch even has nicknames for them, and their activities on earth.  It was, of course, excluded from the final Bible.  The nephilim were the offspring of the male fallen angels who mated with human females.  These 'children' grew to gigantic size and possessed super-human strength.  I agree that many legends and pseudo-mythology grew (no pun intended) from stories of their exploits and the existence of the nephilim.  In my opinion, these legends pervaded every corner of the known world, and precipitated the stories of gods in multicultural lore.  I further believe that the fallen angels helped mankind develop highly-advanced technology which explains unusual paintings, architectural achievements and legends of warfare which don't seem to fit with a given time period.  Atlantis may have existed, for example, on the island of Crete while the Minoans lived there.  It is my theory that this highly-advanced city/state did exist and was built by the nephilim and fallen angels.  It was destroyed by the Biblical flood, but the remnants of its false religion and its history subsequently lived on, as you said, in the 'mythology' of the Greeks, Chinese, ancient India, central and south America, Egypt, Romans, etc.  I am saying too much.  Great question.

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   I think it's easy to think the nephilim were the gods of other cultures and, I guess if you believe in cosmic battles of good and evil it's even easier.
   
   But, I've always taken the stories of Genesis more as a tale woven to introduce the reader to the Hebrew concept of God, and how he was different from the gods of the other creation stories; than as facts one is supposed to believe necessarily happened.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I agree.

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5. 59

   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   Jesus said: You will see andels going up and coming down from heaven. With a certain eye, you can see them...by the hundreds of thousands. They walk among us, in the flesh.

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Are these good and bad angels? What kind of eye. I'm curious. How do you tell they are angels?

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   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   After that second sentence is totally my comment on his statement. I realized that thinking the entire comment was a quote was misleading. Sorry about that.

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7. 59

   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   I'm having a sinus attack, and I'm out of sorts.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Could be a demon up your nose. They're only about the size of a caterpillar.

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   Eric L. Andrewsposted 12 years ago

   There is spiritual warfare going on around us at all times.  Good angels versus fallen ones, or demons.  See Daniel Chapter 10 when one of God's good angels has to fight an evil one protecting the Persian Empire.  The angel is trying to reach the prophet Daniel with a message, and has to finally get the archangel Michael's assistance to break through.  The Kaballah, started by some disloyal (to God) Jews during their Babylonian captivity several hundred years before Christ, is a sect which communicates with good and evil angels within the spiritual realm.  The Kaballahist Tree of Life is the method through which to contact these good and bad angels, and it is done through trances and/or channeling.  Aleister Crowley, who wrote many books and had L. Ron Hubbard (Church of Scientology)as a young disciple of his, was involoved in the Kaballah.  Many celebrities, including Madonna, Demi Moore and Rosanne Barr study the Kaballah.  There is an 'evil eye' studied via the Kaballah, and it is of the god/being En Ha Ra.  With it one can kill another simply with an 'all seeing eye' look.  Weird.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Isn't it bizarre that in order to contact angels/bad angels/demons/spirits one is supposed to jump through a load of esoteric hoola hoops like drawing strange symbols, going into trances, rolling up a trouser leg, or muttering an incantation whilst covered in marmalade.
      
      If these things were real and interested in talking to people they would just appear whilst you were watching TV or out doing the shopping.
      
      It all just smacks of manmade diversions and mysteries designed to keep the great unwashed away from supposed wisdom which isn't wisdom at all.

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         eaglecreekposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I hate to tell you Disappearinghead but rolling up a trouser leg doesn’t work, the ancient Greeks tried this in an attempt to hear the song of the Sirens. Even under the protection of the rolled up trouser leg the Sirens song still drove the fearless men insane.

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            Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            

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   jacharlessposted 12 years ago

   Evil spirit = unclean, not demonic.
   Greek: {pre-14th century} the term dæmon means: a good heart; of good spirit.
   The æ was dropped in the Latin to form demon.
   
   James.

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10. 73

    jacharlessposted 12 years ago

    Firstly,
    There is no record on an event involving angels falling from heaven. Not in Tanakh (which contains the Torah) nor the compilations of Y'shua ben Yosef, nor in the letters. One would surely think, should a massive event of this kind have taken place - an event that would absolutely effect humans according to its numbers of fallen (which would have outnumbered humans- the Creator would have explained this fully and unequivocally.
    
    Next, the tales presented by a man named Enoch, outline the hierarchy of, quite possible, the worlds first pagan belief system. A systen known a Ba'al.
    
    Third, Kabbalah is specifically Hebrew mysticism, and should be understood as such. Extensive evidence within shows deep seeds from Babylonian practices.
    
    Finally,
    These pre-flood humans would be the equivalent of Neanderthals - think Cosacks or Mongols on Instinct 4teroids. No doubt ruthless. If correct, the Philistine, David fought, would be the same.
    The reason they were destroyed in the flood was not becaue they created a race of giants by knowing the sons, it was because of ramped sin (lack of understanding).
    
    There is no connection between angels and humans, as evil/fallen messengers. An "evil spirit" is simple a heart void of light or a mind that is controlling the actions of a human. Their ego.
    
    James

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