What is your take on Isaiah 45:11 "...and concerning the work of my hands, command you me."
I'm puzzled by this scripture. I'd be interested in some useful interpretations. Is the Creator saying we can command him or is he saying something else? Has anyone had an experience that deals with this scripture?
I believe that Our Father is just saying that anything we ask of him or command of him we will receive. I also believe he is also saying or maybe just saying........
We are his hands and feet and what we do with our hands and feet we also do to the Lord.
So therefore we must walk in his will. Those that do not will be punished and brought down.
Do you think the phrase command you me, really means "ask you me?" Can we command the Father? I'm not being facetious. Just want to figure this out..
NLT Isa 45:11 “Do you question what I do for my children? Do you give me orders about the work of my hands?" has not to do with commanding God.
Just a quick comment: Faye stresses, over and over, that we are all God's vessels, his means to whatever ends he might choose.
Why does he NEED vessels to do anything? These blobs of clay seem to fulfill him. Thought he was omnipotent?
Clark, Faye is using an analogy, as if to say all individuals are "diamonds in the rough." Yet, we do not see the beauty of the diamond until it is "finished." The idea is that we are refined through the power of God.
First off, Savvy, I'm an Atheist, so to me the Bible is a fascinating compendium of Christian myth and story, not the Word of God. I've read it cover-to-cover, quite adore it, and flatter myself that I understand it a bit. Second point--we can rule out, ABSOLUTELY, any thought that God is inviting us to 'command' him on any literal level. God by definition is omnipotent, omniscient, the progenitor of all things past, present, and future. To even suggest that any being in his kingdom could 'command' him would suggest he is in some kind of lesser position to that being, which would be a contradiction n terms. Thirdly, are you familiar with the grammatical structure that goes like this--"You may thin you're the boss, but believe you me, I'll crush you like a bug," Essentially, what you're saying is "you'd damn well better believe me"--but the message is much more dramatic when you drop the prepositions and tighten the structure. i suspect that's what's going on here, but exactly how the grammar works is unclear. Of course, we're dealing with a translation, which in turn could be a translation of a translation and heaven knows what the original was! The issue is further complicated by the fact that the vast majority of the teachings, sayings, sermons, and pronouncements of the Bible are presented as METAPHORS, hence rich with multiple interpretations. Rayne 123 says, "I also believe he is also saying or maybe just saying.. . . ." It's Rayne's trailing DOTS that tell the story..................
Yes. I was having trouble with the word "command". Your points clarify why. Atheist or not, I have a great deal of respect for your observations. I appreciate your character.
Actually, "facetious" implies PLAY, and God or Jesus frequently play with language and with questioners, by answering questions in images or metaphors or with another question--in hopes that YOU will come to the answer on your own.
I was a bit lost there when I read the end of your answer. However I see why you said that and I worded it wrong and did not notice until now, so thanks.
Moonfroth, I consider the words of CS Lewis, "...God is not a static thing-not even a person-but a dynamic, pulsating activity, a life, almost a kind of drama...a kind of dance - Mere Christianity. Omniscient doesn't sound boring when put that way.
New Living Translation 2013 Isaiah 45:11 This is what the Lord says— the Holy One of Israel and your Creator: “Do you question what I do for my children? Do you give me orders about the work of my hands?
The context indicates that the LORD was making this point facetiously. He was stressing His omnipotence, and His enemies thought they could question His ways.
Interesting! I had not thought of God as being facetious. I will read the entire chapter over to see if I also determine the context as you have. Thanks!
Hm good answer, that makes so much sense really
Check out Psalm 2:4. See what God said to Job in Job 38:2-3. Paul made the same point in Romans 9: 20-21. What right does mankind have to question God? God, the Potter, has every right to shape us, mere clay, as He sees fit.
Glynch 1 --"God the Potter has every right to shape. . ." you, because you see yourself as a shapeless blob without him, and grant him that "right". I guess. But we are getting sidetracked from Savvy's query about Command.
I would not exist without Him, so I am not in the position to grant the Sovereign the right to do with me what He desires.
Opponents are likewise not in the position to "command" Him to do anything; He is mocking their arrogance here.
Surely he would not "mock", which amounts to belittlement and pettiness--very low-level emotions that spring from insecurity. Good grief!--how could we possibly ascribe such activities to God?
Verse 3 records the rebellious words of conspirators who believe they can overpower the Deity (“the LORD and His Anointed”), Whom they perceive as slave masters. The LORD responds to their bluster with derisive laughter (v. 4; cf. Ps. 59:
Fair enuff. Wasn't aware of that scripture. Thanks. And the laughter should be derisive, because the outcome of their rebellion is already known, just as with Satan. Being omniscient does get a little boring, don't you think?
Not being omniscient, I can have no concept of how the Deity feels about His life. However, since He is self-sufficient, I believe He would have been perfectly content to have remained by Himself.
Glynch1, I have read all the scripture you provided. Thank you. I see that all the authors used a similar (facetious) tone. They seem to have related human to human. I'm not fully settled in my mind about "command", but I'm OK with that for now.
Many parts of Isaiah are written in Hebrew poetic parallelism. In this case, it may be synonymous parallelism or a parallelism of intensification. "Command me" in the second half of the verse may be an "intense" version of "ask of me."
I appreciate your point about intensification, Glynch1. I have made the choice to believe in the Holy Spirit and that most, if not all biblical authors were inspired by Him to write about Him by using human characteristics that man can relate to.
All Scripture is inspired (God-breathed) [2 Tim. 3:16], not the writers; God guided them, using their individual personalities to compose and record without error His word to us. Yes, He did accommodate Himself to us so that we could relate.
Glych & Savvy. With respect to you both, I'm going to book out of the chat. We are restricted re: length, and I have been here SO many times before, always to the same end: Believers present arguments about the nature of God and the efficacy
Is. 45 is basically GOD speaking on His sovereignty. God is the potter we are the clay and He will do with us what he desires .We are His instruments, He is working a work in his children and he says in verse 7 that he forms the light and create darkness, he makes peace and creates evil. He says I the Lord do all these things. God is asking us who are we to question Him. He is in control. He is involved in every detail of our lives. In verse 15 the scripture says Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel , the Savior. Basically this is saying that God is working behind the scenes. When God is at work in our lives we are His vessels He uses us to bring about His purpose. I wrestled with this for years. At that time I was struggling with someone whom I cared about dearly and when I got to the point where I couldn’t deal with this individual. I opened my bible and that’s the scripture that caught my eye. At that time I didn’t understand what it meant. Within the last several weeks it has become clear what God was trying to show me. What I thought at that time was the devil attacking me or my friends turning their backs on me or someone close to me in my family saying and doing all kinds of mean thing to me. In fact it was God molding me and shaping me into the woman He has called me to be. I just needed to take responsibility for my life and the role I played in making something that was so simple into something that was harder than it needed to be..Isaiah 45:11 was God saying to me If you want to know what I am doing in your life and what was behind all the noise and confusion, then you need to ask me. Ask God of things to come concerning his sons. He invites us to ask him, then He says command ye me tell God what you want. God wants us come to him and ask him to come into our situation. All I ever did was try to fix everything that was happening in my life . Not knowing it was me getting in the way of what God was doing. When you look back over your life you can see where God was and what he was doing
Faye Leverett, thank you for sharing your personal experience. How interesting that this scripture caught your eye during your time of hardship. Re: Isaiah 45:11, I very much like your comment that command simply means, "Tell me what you want."
If you read the New Living Translation 2013 Isaiah 45:11 This is what the Lord says— the Holy One of Israel and your Creator: “Do you question what I do for my children? Do you give me orders about the work of my hands?" You will find God rhetorically rebukes Israel for questioning God's choice to use a pagan king to rebuild the holy city and temple. We cannot command God to do anything! He alone is sovereign! Pretty simple to grasp.
Anyone who states something else as to its meaning has never truly studied the passage and what transpired at that time to which Isaiah was talking about.
Here's the entire passage to make sense of it all...
Isaiah 45:1-13 Cyrus, the Lord’s Chosen One This is what the Lord says to Cyrus, his anointed one, whose right hand he will empower. Before him, mighty kings will be paralyzed with fear. Their fortress gates will be opened, never to shut again. This is what the Lord says: “I will go before you, Cyrus, and level the mountains. I will smash down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. And I will give you treasures hidden in the darkness— secret riches. I will do this so you may know that I am the Lord, the God of Israel, the one who calls you by name. “And why have I called you for this work? Why did I call you by name when you did not know me? It is for the sake of Jacob my servant, Israel my chosen one. I am the Lord; there is no other God. I have equipped you for battle, though you don’t even know me, so all the world from east to west will know there is no other God. I am the Lord, and there is no other. I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the Lord, am the one who does these things. “Open up, O heavens, and pour out your righteousness. Let the earth open wide so salvation and righteousness can sprout up together. I, the Lord, created them. “What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, ‘Stop, you’re doing it wrong!’ Does the pot exclaim, ‘How clumsy can you be?’ How terrible it would be if a newborn baby said to its father, ‘Why was I born?’ or if it said to its mother, ‘Why did you make me this way?’” This is what the Lord says— the Holy One of Israel and your Creator: “Do you question what I do for my children? Do you give me orders about the work of my hands? I am the one who made the earth and created people to live on it. With my hands I stretched out the heavens. All the stars are at my command. I will raise up Cyrus to fulfill my righteous purpose, and I will guide his actions. He will restore my city and free my captive people— without seeking a reward! I, the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, have spoken!”
Thank you. I appreciate the translation you have provided. It is all too easy to take a phrase out of context. I have been remiss---which is why I needed to ask the question. Appreciate it, JD.
We're the question marks in the original translations? In the Darby bible and the Douhy bible they were not. (Both wrtten in the 1800's)
They were written as statements.
I see. I am not familiar with those translations.
Were the idea not so serious, it would be amusing to propose that three "entities" LITERALLY reside in one . . . .body? idea? wraith? It doesn't matter. Faith and Reason are uneasy bedfellows. read more
We cannot and should not even try to command God himself. BUT. Can we command the creations of God's hand other than humans? Jesus commanded the fig tree to wither up and die, and he commanded the wind to stop, the water to turn into wine, etc. I think this scriptures meaning is leaning more in that direction
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